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Game Design Theory / What is so good about Halo?

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Lord Einstein
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Posted: 4th Oct 2007 23:42
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I am not bashing or insulting Halo (I love the game). I just don't know why its so good. I am of course reffering to the whole series.

Is it the weapons, the vehicles, the level design or is it the way the grunts scream and run?
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Zombie 20
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 01:43 Edited at: 5th Oct 2007 01:44
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Its a lot for me, the presentation is very nice, the grunts are hilarious..the legendary difficulty makes you actually play the game. Multiplayer has always been nice and in halo it just feels right, the level designs are okay and the weapons are fun, I'd say the enemies make me laugh and are a good challenge and I love the story, still have to play the third one, its made me laugh, its made me cry, i've felt a pang of nobility as playing chief and I've felt like a hero. This game has its own personality, when the credits roll, I don't want it to be over, I feel like an old friend is leaving and I start up a new campaign.

In short, this game makes me so glad that video games were created, its a 10/10 for me and I have nothing bad to say about it, its brought me together with a great group of people and is generally just a blast to play.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 02:10 Edited at: 5th Oct 2007 02:10
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The briliant combination between Melee, Grenades and Weapons.
The balance, feel and convincion. The vehicles, the enemies and story.

That's all.


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Xenocythe
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 02:20
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The balance and feel are beyond anything I ever expected from an FPS.

Meh. Signatures. Lame :p
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Clackersmith
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 09:26 Edited at: 5th Oct 2007 12:52
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To tell you the truth, I don't really see what all the fuss is about. I have played both the first and second ones, and even though I do agree that the weapons did have a good feel to them and I especially like the ease of just tapping a key to throw a grenade, these things though were neither new nor profound enough to justify the amount of attention halo receives.

Now I’m not saying that all games need to have revolutionary new features and cutting edge graphics, but halo seemed to get a lot of credit for idea’s that had existed within the PC gamming industry for quite a few years before its release.

I have been a hard core PC gamer for most of my life, and I never really picked up and played that many console games that tried to emulate the kind of things the PC industry was doing at that time. Most of the time the console controls where just never quite up to the task of providing the user with the ability to make quick and decisive movements that are a absolute must for any typical FPS. Something as simple as not being able to turn around 180 degrees quick enough can mean the difference between life and death, and in turn the players level of frustration towards the game.

And changing the level of difficulty in the game to coupe with such restrictions (e.g. toning down the A.I) always seems like such a dodgy workaround. You don’t take an Australian rules football or a Gridiron football and throw it into the game of soccer and expect it to be the same old soccer game, then realize that it isn’t working out and change the shape of the ball to resemble a soccer ball. I will admit though the results (in the world of gamming) can sometimes be good and perhaps having something is better then nothing.

You can already see how much consoles are evolving towards the PC end of the spectrum, their not there yet but as more and more console gamers start taking up online, quick reaction time (possibly even competition) type of games they will undoubtedly crave controls capable of giving then a greater and greater edge over their opponents. Which is something that I have always felt the PC has offered gamers that the majority or if not all console have not. Of course you can't beat a consoles controls for games like mortal combat, the PC just cant touch those.

The geometry in halo (especially in the first one) almost always seemed so repetitive within the indoor environments, and the AI wasn’t to crash hot either. I remember thinking to myself when playing the first halo that some of the areas and enemy encounter had a real Doom/Serious Sam fell to them, even though this would probably have been their aim when developing the Swarm encounters.

The weapons where cool, rocket launchers, machine guns, plasma weapons, grenades where all fun to use, had nice animations, sound effects where ok and the general feel of them was good, but some or if not all of these weapons are basically the bread and butter of virtually 90-95% of all typical FPS games, hardly anything worth ranting and raving about.

It just seemed like it was the first game to hit the shelves for console gamers that had an average consistency through out, and appealed a lot to an American audience. The combination of all these average aspects of the game was something not seen by console users at that time and so was snapped up as the latest and greatest thing to come out of the gaming industry, which is entirely untrue. People got court up in the hype that is halo and before you knew it they where liking a game that really is just a standard first person shooter. Most where just unaware and still are unaware (to a degree) of the remarkable and creative titles released for the PC that surpass Halo is many, many ways.

It wouldn’t be much of a stretch of the imagination to think that a majority of the type of people that are fans of the halo series would buy any upcoming sequel even if it was of poor design and made with a $5000 budget. I know I’m going a bit over the edge with that example, but I’m sure you can see what I’m getting at.

I’m still a bit bitter that Bungie was bought out by Microsoft and halo was developed solely for a console. I feel it could have been significantly better then what it currently is if it was developed for a wide verity of platforms or specifically for the PC seeing as quite a few cross platform games never really turned out to good ( eg. DeusEx 2).

I don’t dislike the game, I enjoyed playing it and I’m thinking of grabbing the first one and playing through it again right now. So for those hardcore fans that are looking to rip my limbs of right about now *take a chill pill*.

I guess the point of all this is what I said in the first line of this post which is simply - “I don't really see what all the fuss is about.”

Q: Why can't you ever please a women?
A: Because no bloke has a pe#*s made out of chocolate which ejaculates money!
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tha_rami
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 19:28
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Well, actually you just described it perfectly.

Halo was the first to bring all those FPS aspects from PC to console in a very playable and fun way.

Besides that, it is convincing and has a involving story and great vehicles...

That's really all that's to it.


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Dr Manette
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 20:58
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It's a bunch for things, in my opinion:

-Controls
-The magic trio: guns, melee, and grenades
-Simple, yet inviting worlds (there's enough to make it look real, but not cluttered)
-Vehicles (so many vehicles, great controls for them)
-Multiplayer is smooth, great to play with friends, and has lots of variants
-Single player is also fun, and cooperative if you want. If you pay attention to the story, it's very interesting.


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Lord Einstein
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 21:31
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I guess that is it.
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Guyra
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Posted: 6th Oct 2007 01:18
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The marketing. xD

Seriously though, there's some amount of freedom to it(driving vehicles, etc.), and it's all around appealing, I guess.
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Nemesis_0_
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Posted: 6th Oct 2007 02:53
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MUUUUUUUUUUUSIC.... well that and now the forge... dropping scoripions on ur enemies is funnn

~*~ Life Is Temporary, Gaming Is Eternal ~*~
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Zombie 20
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Posted: 6th Oct 2007 11:29
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darn beat me to it nemesis...the music is a notch above most games, and is quite endearing. It is always set in the right place for the correct mood.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 6th Oct 2007 17:22
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I always feel this is like asking what made "Superman 64" a bad game...


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 7th Oct 2007 02:46
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Prepare to rip into me, everyone... I'm about to say something very, very, very taboo.

When Halo came out, a bunch of my friends told me to play it. They said it was the greatest FPS of all time and I'd be insane not to absolutely love it. Well, I played it, and I absolutely hated it. It's well assembled and all that, no glitches that turned me away, but from a design standpoint, I found the game to be... get ready to rip into me... unoriginal and uninteresting. The story couldn't captivate me in the least, the gameplay felt like a worked up Half Life with more toys, and the multiplayer as drab as Half Life as well. Then my friends said "try Halo 2, it's better, I swear!" I played Halo 2, and again, I wasn't impressed. Halo 3 is out now, and my friends are all saying the exact same thing... "Halo 3 roxors, it'll blow your mind and change your entire perception of the 360 and the Halo series." Well, excuse me if I don't go out of my way to give it a chance... the series hasn't earned that chance, imo.

Maybe it's just my personal taste in games. I like real-world weapons in real-world scenarios, like Battlefield 1942 and Rainbow Six. But maybe it's the fact that I'm absolutely sick to death of shooting aliens, and have been since... well, since Atari was popular. And maybe it's the story. The story is so unoriginal I wonder if the lead designer cries himself to sleep at night. Not that I'm some far superior writer, or that my own games have better or more original stories, but for all of the hype surrounding the Halo series, I expected the story to be as captivating as Metal Gear Solid, or Fallout... or even Rainbow Six. Not a lame story about some space marine fighting aliens... I've seen that before countless times. Whatever the reason, I'm simply unimpressed by Halo. Maybe someday I'll give Halo 3 a try, and maybe it'll somehow blow my socks off like everyone claims, but I'm not exactly in a rush to give it a try.

And yes, I know, hating Halo and criticising it for any reason is a strict taboo. I should be imprisoned, stabbed in the groin with rusty nails, and thrown into a pit of hungry house cats where I'll sneeze to death just before they finish eating me. But in my opinion, what I just described what make a far more interesting game than Halo... it's just an opinion, so don't explode .


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Clackersmith
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Posted: 7th Oct 2007 03:10 Edited at: 7th Oct 2007 03:31
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Quote: "They said it was the greatest FPS of all time
"try Halo 2, it's better, I swear!"
"Halo 3 roxors, it'll blow your mind"
"but for all of the hype surrounding the Halo series, I expected the story to be as captivating"


Yeah it's like what I was saying before, if I can quote myself for a minute

Quote: "People got court up in the hype that is halo and before you knew it they where liking a game that really is just a standard first person shooter."


Properly a good majority of the people who play halo would have only in the last few years been actively playing games on a regular basis. So their knowledge of what are the best games going around, is limited to the length of time in which they have been playing and also the platform they use.

Could properly ask a good chunk of these console gamers what a real time strategy game is and they would have no idea, even though strategy games would properly take up a sizable portion of the games out there.

Edit:
Quote: "And yes, I know, hating Halo and criticizing it for any reason is a strict taboo."


Properly a good thing that most members of these forums seem level headed, I'm sure posting these sorts of things on some other forum I know off (which shell remain nameless) would have dire consequences. hehe


And about as silly as a bum full of smartys.
And yeah, I need a signature like I need a case of the crabs.
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tha_rami
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Posted: 7th Oct 2007 04:01 Edited at: 7th Oct 2007 04:02
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WOOOOT - Double Post!


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tha_rami
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Posted: 7th Oct 2007 04:01
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I'm sorry, but I put Halo's story right up there with Metal Gear Solid and Deus Ex. The story of the Halos, the Flood, the Covenant Journey, the Forerunners, the Halos themselves and finally the Ark, it all makes sense, it all fits. It is convincing in every possible interpretation of the word convincing. The characters are captivating, the scenery captivating...

If you feel it's just about space marines fighting off aliens... well, you explain it yourself, you just haven't given the game enough of a try. Now, ofcourse, this is a personal thing. If you don't want to try a game you shouldn't.

But honestly, I am confused how one can judge a game if he hasn't played it completely.

Now I do agree that the gameplay itself is nothing special except for extremely well balanced and polished. Yet in my opinion, Halo is like the Lord of the Rings of videogames. A full, convincing trilogy. Unlike Metal Gear Solid, which has been going downwards ever since MGS2 - or Deus Ex, which screwed up with Invisible Wars.

Now, let me add in reply to Clackersmith that I consider myself a Game Theorist and that I have extensive knowledge of most games on most platforms since StarCraft. I go as far as to be able to tell you the entire story of most of these games. Halo was mindblowing for a consolegame and hell, it still is.

Ofcourse everything about Halo is just an opinion, Matt. You're entitled to yours. (No. I won't add: 'but yours is wrong').


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Clackersmith
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Posted: 7th Oct 2007 04:53 Edited at: 7th Oct 2007 06:25
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Quote: "Now, let me add in reply to Clackersmith that I consider myself a Game Theorist and that I have extensive knowledge of most games on most platforms since StarCraft. I go as far as to be able to tell you the entire story of most of these games."


But would you go as far as to say that the majority of people who play halo, and preach about it being the greatest thing to come out of the gaming industry, also share the same passion and zeal for current and past games as you and I. Could you also go as far as to say that these people have spent most of their lives playing these games, growing up and watching the gaming industry flourish into what it is today.

The release of the X-box + Live, PS2, along with halo and a number of other titles has hailed in a new generation of gamers. People who would have never been enticed in the past to spare the time to sit down and play console games let alone purchase a console system, are now finding it easier then ever (and infect encouraged by current popular culture) to sit down and play a game with there mates, or simply mash a few buttons and kill some bots.

The majority of gamers within this new generation simply aren’t experienced enough when it comes to deciding as a whole what is the best and what isn’t, yet these same people are the loudest voice within the entirety of the gaming industry. Which even though it may seem trivial (since we are just talking about games here), it is still somewhat discomfiting.


And about as silly as a bum full of smartys.
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tha_rami
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Posted: 7th Oct 2007 09:23
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While I do agree, let me tell you that in the case of Halo, both very experienced gamers and new gamers will be pleased with the game. I mean, come on. If Edge gives it a 10/10 - it must be good.


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Zombie 20
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Posted: 7th Oct 2007 16:11 Edited at: 7th Oct 2007 16:18
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Quote: "And yes, I know, hating Halo and criticising it for any reason is a strict taboo. I should be imprisoned, stabbed in the groin with rusty nails, and thrown into a pit of hungry house cats where I'll sneeze to death just before they finish eating me."


Um...when did any of us say hating it was taboo matt? If you really want to do all that to yourself, have fun mate but remember something, its just a game. Albeit its a great game that I love and treasure but its just a game, I'd never actually hurt a human being over line of code and graphics.

Zomb

Quote: "The majority of gamers within this new generation simply aren’t experienced enough when it comes to deciding as a whole what is the best and what isn’t, yet these same people are the loudest voice within the entirety of the gaming industry. Which even though it may seem trivial (since we are just talking about games here), it is still somewhat discomfiting.
"


Very true, we are people who watched this industry grow and flourish, so I do feel that many members on this forum are qualified in being able to discuss gameplay and what will create the better market. New voices today haven't a inkling of the old generations in their voices, they spit on nintendo's name *ahem which saved this little market thank you * and overall are graphic whores. I'd kill for an old 2d tatics game on consoles again, it woiuld be really fun to up the animations on it and I think it could be fun..and I have to say this...what happened to the games that would make our thumbs bleed? The arcade games that drove hardcoreness to a new level have seemed to left the consoles, of course if they are around please point them to me, I love a good challenge.


As far as halo goes, have to play the third one yet but the music, the story, chief, seargant, arbiter, halos,flood,gravemind,cortana, its all great how everything is tied in. You feel like a hero pacing through all of this, and when other marines see you they whisper 'hey look its him', in halo 2 the grunts actually will run from you screaming 'run its the demon!' Halo was the first shooter I had ever encountered that in and it was so funny when I first heard it I dropped the controller and promptly got killed by an elite. The story has me by the chin right now, I can't wait to find out whats going to happen though I have my supsicions that chief is going to die based on an advertisment I saw before the game came out and just what he's going into.

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Raven
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Posted: 7th Oct 2007 17:28
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I would disagree quite a bit with most of the responses here.

Many have said "I don't know what the fuss is about, it's nothing special", which actually is the key to why the hell so many love playing it.

It isn't anything particularly special.
Nothing in the game has been revolutionary in any form.
Everything in the game I can tell you exactly what game did it first.

That said, no other game has had everything that Halo does.

Another thing is that the game is so well balanced, that no matter what sort of player you are; there is no "best weapon set" for everyone or anyone.

It's also the whole fun factor. Halo wasn't designed as an epic game by any means, but lots of little fun set-peices that are then all tied together to make the complete game.

This is why Gears of War is also so much fun, simply because you always feel like something new is going on despite the fact it's all basically the same thing over and over presented in an interesting way.

It's what makes all of the great games.
What was said by the lead designer on Halo in the video documentary that accomanpied the special edition of Halo 2 is; they went for the key 30second rule. If you can provide the player with 30seconds of fun, then another 30seconds.. before long you have a complete game that is just enjoyable from start to end.

There's also something there for everyone. Storyline for those who want to feel involved in something bigger, and pure action for those who want to just get their hands dirty.

The key to it all those is getting down those 30 seconds. If a player can't get into the game and have fun in those first 30 seconds of play.. then you've got to force the momentum of the game on them. This can lead to some very unenjoyable gameplay.

Halo wins through because of it's simplicity, and not trying to be the best of anything. Instead just making the damn thing enjoyable to play. You know the biggest gripe most have for Halo 3, is it just wasn't long enough.. in-fact they were complaining about it only being about 10-15hrs long which for an FPS is actually still fairly long, but it feels like much less because it's just so damn fun.

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Lord Einstein
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Posted: 7th Oct 2007 20:56
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Matt Rock:
We are civilised folk and so will not kill you for complaining about Halo.

I think Raven has a very good point on first impressions and the idea that Halo is great because of its simplicity and that it tries not to revelutionise anything.
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Zombie 20
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Posted: 8th Oct 2007 02:09
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Raven has really hit some notes there, I think he has explained the halo experience in a very nice way to those who do not really enjoy it.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 8th Oct 2007 04:47
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Quote: "I'm sorry, but I put Halo's story right up there with Metal Gear Solid and Deus Ex. The story of the Halos, the Flood, the Covenant Journey, the Forerunners, the Halos themselves and finally the Ark, it all makes sense, it all fits. It is convincing in every possible interpretation of the word convincing. The characters are captivating, the scenery captivating..."

I gave it as much of a chance as my physical being would permit. I played the single player for several hours, and when I told my friends I wasn't the least bit entertained, they forced me to play multiplayer for several more hours. If I were counting yawns-per-minute, this game would have probably rivaled "Call of Duty: Big Red One" if there were an award for "Game most likely to put Matt to sleep." It just doesn't interest me. Quite frankly, in my opinion, the story simply isn't interesting, the characters are dull and unimaginative, and nothing of the game leapt out and grabbed my attention... or even really tried to. I can't even remotely see any way that the writing in Halo is even on the same field as a game like MGS or Deus EX... but again, I wasn't entertained by it, so it's no surprise I wasn't captivated in the least by its story.

Quote: "I mean, come on. If Edge gives it a 10/10 - it must be good."

It's a well documented fact that magazines, newspapers, TV shows, radio, and other groups that review people are extremely bias in favor of public opinion, and they tend to follow the money around. If Edge went and ripped into Halo, how many readers would they lose? Enough to warrant a glaring review. And Halo isn't the only thing that gets this treatment, either. They've done that for years, with everything from breakfast cereal to million-dollar sports cars. My point is, reviews don't impress me, even the ones that favor stuff I like. The product itself has to prove its value to me.

Quote: "Um...when did any of us say hating it was taboo matt?"

This isn't the first time I voiced my opinion about Halo, but it's definitely the first time the conversation stayed civil, lol. The last time I said I didn't like Halo, people wanted me strung and quartered .


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tha_rami
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Posted: 8th Oct 2007 05:43
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Quote: "It's a well documented fact that magazines, newspapers, TV shows, radio, and other groups that review people are extremely bias in favor of public opinion, and they tend to follow the money around. If Edge went and ripped into Halo, how many readers would they lose? Enough to warrant a glaring review. And Halo isn't the only thing that gets this treatment, either. They've done that for years, with everything from breakfast cereal to million-dollar sports cars. My point is, reviews don't impress me, even the ones that favor stuff I like. The product itself has to prove its value to me."

Then you honestly don't know Edge...


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Clackersmith
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Posted: 8th Oct 2007 09:41 Edited at: 8th Oct 2007 15:43
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I do agree with a lot of what you are saying Raven. I would have to say though that the fundamental point behind each of my posts has been to point out the fact that Halo is just a standard FPS, a well polished one yes, but still pretty stock standard. Which you seem to agree with.

Also to point out that those that preach that Halo is the best game going around, and that it is the first game to do this and that, are all just…well…wrong, their not in the know enough to make those kind of decisions, yet it is these same people that the publishing mobs and game developers are going to target. Its just business, you don’t target an audience of one thousand when you can have one of five hundred thousand.

I’m not saying that anyone here is motioning such things, just that I have heard many people saying things along those lines.

Imagine if the same amount of people that currently like Halo, instead liked games along the lines of pong or breakout(*tries not to make it sound like I’m bagging these games*), and they simply are unaware of any of the better games out there. Even if game publishing mobs and game developers were able to produce better titles they wouldn’t, they still will churn out pong/breakout type games because that’s what the majority of gamers want.

I guess this all has nothing really to do with what this topic was asking about, I guess it was just easy to use Halo as an example, but still nevertheless good healthy discussion.

Quote: "It's a well documented fact that magazines, newspapers, TV shows, radio, and other groups that review people are extremely bias in favor of public opinion, and they tend to follow the money around. If Edge went and ripped into Halo, how many readers would they lose?"


Took the words right out of my mouth Matt.

Quote: "Then you honestly don't know Edge..."


In all honesty I don't, the magazine was only published here in Australia for a few months back in 2004, so I have never read a copy. I used to read a lot of gaming magazines when I was younger (PC gamer, PC power-play etc etc) but for a multitude of reasons I no longer do (one of those reasons being what Matt was talking about)

If I can grab a quote from another forum post you did tha_rami, regarding StarCraft Brood war -

Quote: "I got it cracked, then loved it so much that I bought it. That's about my policy. Get it, like it, buy it. Get it, don't like it, drop it"

Quote: "Matt Rock - The product itself has to prove its value to me. "


I do basically the same thing tha_rami. This is in a way my process of reviewing a game, and one of the reasons why I don’t read gaming magazines anymore. I do sometimes head on over to IGN if there is a game title I have never heard about and are looking for some details.

Quote: "I actually buy games I've completed, yeah. Odd, isn't it? "


Not really, I do the same thing out of respect for the developers.




Edit: Why am I not surprised lol?



And about as silly as a bum full of smartys.
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entomophobiac
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Posted: 8th Oct 2007 20:52
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This is an interesting series of posts.

What makes Halo an amazing game?

Well, all that is up to preferences and taste. What interests me more is -- what makes PC preachers say it's standard?

In my opinion, there is no FPS to rival Halo 3 out there. And I used to be a PC preacher myself in the past. Halo and Halo 2 are old by now and should be compared to what was out at the time -- not to modern-day titles on any other platforms.

Halo 3, in my opinion, is very difficult to even approach in pure fun-factor. And why? It's because of the sum of its part. Not because the weapons are great. Not because the vehicles are fun to drive. Not because the multiplayer or co-op works very well. Not because Bungie seems to have thought of every little detail in the game. Not one single reason -- all of those reasons and a whole lot more. I can point to no other game that is as polished as Halo 3. Not a single one.

But please, PC players that make this a platform discussion (as always), give me a PC shooter that does all that Halo does and I'll gladly admit I'm proven wrong.
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entomophobiac
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Posted: 8th Oct 2007 21:02
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Quote: "Also to point out that those that preach that Halo is the best game going around, and that it is the first game to do this and that, are all just…well…wrong, their not in the know enough to make those kind of decisions, yet it is these same people that the publishing mobs and game developers are going to target. "


This kind of comment just pisses me off. Essentially what you are doing is that you're calling me stupid, right? On what basis can you ever call me, or any of the approximately two million people that bought the game on the day of its release, stupid?

I say that Halo 3 is THE best FPS out there. I gladly do. And by doing so, apparently I'm not expressing my opinion, I'm just wrong? Is it really that simple?
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Sopo the tocho
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Posted: 8th Oct 2007 22:50 Edited at: 8th Oct 2007 22:51
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"the best game ever" does not exist, there are many good games out there and everyone have his own "the best game ever"...


Gotta play quake III right now, bye


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Lord Einstein
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Posted: 8th Oct 2007 23:23 Edited at: 8th Oct 2007 23:26
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I think maybe the Co-op of Halo has fueled its growth. One person that thinks Halo is good will invite their friend around to play the Co-op with them. Playign with your friends on a game is cool and the friend will probably go and buy the game and invite friends to play it around their house. This cycle continues. Halo co-op and multiplayer is so accesable and easy to set up (a few buttons pressed) with PC's you must set up the LAN game which can take forever as LANs have not been very good in my experience. Get multiple computers (and usally multiple copies of the game). The friend can't then ask for guidence from the host.

I remember when I first played Halo around my cousins house. The first thing I though was; "Cool! You can do co-op on this game!"

What are your favourite game to date? Mine are:
Halo 3
Civ 4

edit: can you do split screen on DB Pro?
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Sopo the tocho
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 00:00
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Co-op was in Perfect Dark before halo and also in Perfect Dark you can even be one of the bad guys of the level ( "anti-op"?) Perfect Dark´s Multiplayer its the Blueprint for many games nowadays...


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The admiral
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 04:19
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Its the way the story moves you I guess plus there is something about quality of multiplayer that makes you want to keep going.

The admiral
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Clackersmith
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 11:07 Edited at: 9th Oct 2007 12:24
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Quote: "Essentially what you are doing is that you're calling me stupid, right?"


Not at all, you say you were a "PC preacher" in the past, so I assume you know a little if not a lot about the gaming industry. I'm simply saying that those that haven’t this type of background are not in the best position to judge what is the best game going around. I'm not disputing that fact that people can have there own opinions, and that if someone truly believes that Halo is the best game going around then that’s what they believe.

Quote: "On what basis can you ever call me, or any of the approximately two million people that bought the game on the day of its release, stupid?"


I'm not calling anyone stupid, don’t dramatise the situation by putting words into my mouth. I simply said that people that spout things like “Halo was the first to have vehicle physics and it has the best AI etc etc” are wrong (not correct or accurate, mistaken) there just not in the know enough, nothing about being stupid.

Also if I had two games and I kept one for myself and gave one to you to play, how could you decide which one of these two games is the best without playing both. It's not too hard to take this example and replace your game with the Halo series and maybe a few other titles and my game with every game ever released in the past 20 years.

Maybe saying wrong is slightly harsh, maybe saying who is definitively right or wrong in relation to what is the best game is completely beside the point.

I guess the real question is who would you rather believe is in a position to offer you the best possible educated guess as to which is the best? The person who has just started playing a few specific genres of games not to long ago and only plays them on one platform, or someone who has lived a life of gaming.

By the way I might as well take this opportunity to thank you for your Text adventure Melody Machine, I only just got it the other day and genuinely enjoyed it. Any plans on doing the next 4 chapters?


And about as silly as a bum full of smartys.
And yeah, I need a signature like I need a case of the crabs.
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entomophobiac
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 11:19
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Quote: ""the best game ever""


I would never call any game the "best game ever" -- what I did is that I said Halo 3 is the game I'd call the BEST FPS out there. This doesn't mean that it's impossible for a better FPS to come out or for anything else to do better what Halo 3 does. It just means it's the best FPS RIGHT NOW.
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entomophobiac
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 13:42
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Quote: "Also if I had two games and I kept one for myself and gave one to you to play, how could you decide which one of these two games is the best without playing both."


This is an interesting point, but one that you're also personally speaking against when you deevaluate the opinions of magazines and reviewers (who are usually quite avid gamers) by saying they are biased in one way or the other because Halo just so happens to be a franchise that is extremely popular.

Wouldn't that mean you're as biased yourself?

In my opinion, a game's product value has little to do with what it was first to do. It's more about how well it does what it does. And I personally think that Halo 3 is a far better product than, truly, any other FPS out there. At least it is for me and for many others.

There are usually a ton of arguments thrown at console gamers for seemingly no other reason than PC preaching. Not saying that this happened now, but having your games called "dumbed-down" or derogatively propagated against in a similar quite moronic fashion by a caste of gamers that don't even pay for their games anymore... It pisses me off.

Consoles have claimed the market today. PCs still garner to the RTS and MMO crowds, but even such things are slowly turning to consoles. Unit sales are a quite visible and obvious fact that PCs are no longer top of the line, irrespective of mouse precision or hardware specifications.

Games are supposed to be fun. I play games on all platforms for various different reasons, not least of all interest in game design and theory.

And in the end, what is fun wins me over. And in pure fun-factor, no FPS so far has done for me what the Halo series has done. No mouse or graphics card or DirectX10 shader in the world will have me change my mind


Quote: "By the way I might as well take this opportunity to thank you for your Text adventure Melody Machine, I only just got it the other day and genuinely enjoyed it. Any plans on doing the next 4 chapters?"


I have sketches and ideas for most of it, but not enough time, I'm afraid. The system is extremely clunky, as well, so it takes forever to piece together. But thank you! It was a lot of fun to put together and I still have a lot of ideas for it.

Maybe with the new scripting system I'm doing for the text adventure competition I'll be able to piece it together.

If it's not much to ask, however, I'd much appreciate a review of the old game.
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Sopo the tocho
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 15:41
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Quote: "I would never call any game the "best game ever" -- what I did is that I said Halo 3 is the game I'd call the BEST FPS out there. This doesn't mean that it's impossible for a better FPS to come out or for anything else to do better what Halo 3 does. It just means it's the best FPS RIGHT NOW."



Still. You can´t call something "the best **** ever" since there are many options out there and you haven´t played them all so...


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Clackersmith
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 15:48 Edited at: 9th Oct 2007 15:54
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Quote: "This is an interesting point, but one that you're also personally speaking against when you deevaluate the opinions of magazines and reviewers (who are usually quite avid gamers)"


It’s not that I don’t trust the reviewers, I’m sure the majority are as keen as anyone to tell it like it is, but you can almost bet your bottom dollar that the editors and top brass are going to be more concerned about what sells and in turn what makes them money.

I agree that consoles have begun to dominate the market, but only because consoles are becoming more and more like PC's. Microsoft’s contribution of the Xbox to the console market marked (at least for me) the beginning of the end for the standard "button mashing" days of the arcade orientated console and opened the door to more high performance, “must have latest and greatest tech” type systems that we are beginning (only just) to see nowadays, which definitely reminds me of another platform I know of.

Quote: "Unit sales are a quite visible and obvious fact that PCs are no longer top of the line, irrespective of mouse precision or hardware specifications."


With these new systems, developers will be able to go where no console game has gone before. Console online multi-player and competition gaming is going to skyrocket in the near future and with out a doubt begin treading on some ground that has been well and truly trampled by the PC gaming industry that came before it. Console gamers are going to eventually want controls capable of doing exactly want they want done and in as much time as it take to think it. Otherwise the fun that was originally there due to the ease of just sitting down and playing without having to master using a mouse to look, will turn into frustration because their simplistic controls are simply not doing exactly want they want them to.

I believe PC’s as we know then right now, will always play a part in the gaming industry, after all it’s the PC that’s used to program all these games.

Quote: "If it's not much to ask, however, I'd much appreciate a review of the old game."


I would definitely enjoy doing one for you, I’m currently trying to finish off my entry for the current text adventure competition, which is only about halfway done at the moment. I’m going at it like a bull at a gate in order to try and get if finished before the deadline, but I’m sure I can take a brake from coding between now and then and see if I can do one for you. If not I’ll have plenty of time after the competition to whip one up.


And about as silly as a bum full of smartys.
And yeah, I need a signature like I need a case of the crabs.
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entomophobiac
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 16:37 Edited at: 9th Oct 2007 16:41
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Quote: "Still. You can´t call something "the best **** ever" since there are many options out there and you haven´t played them all so..."


This is one of those arguments along the line of "he's not a world champion -- there can be an unknown child prodigy somewhere who's a lot better."

I'm expressing opinion -- not making prophecy.


Quote: "I agree that consoles have begun to dominate the market, but only because consoles are becoming more and more like PC's"


Sadly, the reason is a lot simpler than this. Consoles started providing a platform for "deeper" titles, if you will, with the first PlayStation. The Xbox just took it further with online components and a harddrive. Natural steps, as technology has become cheaper and cheaper.

But the reason for console sales to skyrocket is even simpler than that: PC gamers don't generally pay money for their games. Console gamers do. As long as piracy remains the kind of problem it is, consoles will remain dominant.

This becomes kind of a catch 22 situation, of course. Developers want to get paid and so make games for consoles, meaning they don't try to deal with piracy meaning that they'll continue to make games exclusively for consoles.

Another thing is development efficiency. If you know the exact specificiations (Xbox360/PS3/PSP -- whatever) that you will develop for, you can concentrate on something else than low-level programming to fit in alternate graphics cards and every other tidbit that can be different between computers. You can focus on the game.

To a large degree, this is why Bungie can talk about game features where CryTek ramble about technology and shaders.


Quote: "If not I’ll have plenty of time after the competition to whip one up."


Sounds perfect, really! I'm also crunching like crazy to finish in time. Just a lot better prepared than last time. Being technically inferior is easier to work around when you know it, at least
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tha_rami
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 18:27
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Quote: "
It’s not that I don’t trust the reviewers, I’m sure the majority are as keen as anyone to tell it like it is, but you can almost bet your bottom dollar that the editors and top brass are going to be more concerned about what sells and in turn what makes them money.
"

Hah, put a big game on the cover with: "We'd rather see DOA Extreme 2 than this!" and see how it sells!


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Nemesis_0_
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 19:42
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Quote: "I'm sorry, but I put Halo's story right up there with Metal Gear Solid and Deus Ex. The story of the Halos, the Flood, the Covenant Journey, the Forerunners, the Halos themselves and finally the Ark, it all makes sense, it all fits. It is convincing in every possible interpretation of the word convincing. The characters are captivating, the scenery captivating..."


Try reading the bible... its fairly similar....

~*~ Life Is Temporary, Gaming Is Eternal ~*~
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tha_rami
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 20:01
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Hmm...

I don't remember seeing orbital ringworlds, built by Forerunners as a final weapon against an outergalactical parasitic species, attacked by a alien race called the Covenenant which attacked Earth to find the portal to Installation 00, effectively involving the human species in the struggle.

Could be I skipped that chapter, though.


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Lord Einstein
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 21:17
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The Bible - Halo?

Those stories are completly different. The Bible is all about God followed by what Jesus did. Halo is about the master chief fighting a gurella style war against an alien coalition to stop some WMD's from firing.

When did Jesus fight off alien hords and robots.

I haven't read the bible personally so I may be wrong but I dout it.
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Sopo the tocho
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 21:21
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Quote: "This is one of those arguments along the line of "he's not a world champion -- there can be an unknown child prodigy somewhere who's a lot better."
"


Nope, its totally different since a "world champion" has a official title an until someone beat him/her he/she is the best of the world.
However you can´t say that with games, there isn't a "best game ever" contest (well, maybe there´s "the game of the year" contest but still no the same thing) and if you ask me, probably if that contest ever exist the people probably would vote for older games like Doom or quake for the "best FPS ever" entry.


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entomophobiac
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 01:18
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Probably. But this is not about what "people" would vote -- it's about my opinion. One that I'm perfectly entitled to have. If you don't agree, it's fine, but you can't tell me I'm "wrong."

I still think Halo 3 is the best FPS out there, for the very simple reason that the combination of things that it does no other game does even half as good.

You don't have to agree, and given the argumentation so far there's a fair chance you don't
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Inspire
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 01:35
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I think that Halo 3 is the best FPS for the time being.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 04:15
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Why so politically correct?

Halo 3 is the best FPS ever. Period.

Up till now. In my opinion. Personally. I feel. For now.


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Nemesis_0_
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 05:24
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The whole story is based on a futuristic version of the bible... The arc, the covenant, the flood etc... all fit the same way they do in the bible...

~*~ Life Is Temporary, Gaming Is Eternal ~*~
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Jonny_S
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 14:48 Edited at: 10th Oct 2007 14:49
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I don't think the story is all that amazing at all, its good as far as FPS games go, but it certainly didn't get me going all that much. As I've said in a previous thread the cliff hanger in halo 2 was the only reason I even bothered with halo 3, I didn't feel up until that point like there was much of a story line. I was still shooting things, I don't care if its called the flood or the covenant I still had to shoot it!
Halo 3 offered a bit more as far the story line goes and was overall an enjoyable experience but honestly I thought bioshock was better because it was something different...*dodges bricks&other objects being launched by halo fans*

Formerly Supermonkey
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Raven
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 15:11
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Quote: "The whole story is based on a futuristic version of the bible... The arc, the covenant, the flood etc... all fit the same way they do in the bible..."


I would love to see you compare examples of passages with Halo's story, then I might be more inclined to believe this; however having read several versions of the bible from cover to cover, I can fairly safely say that there are only circumstancial similarities between a handful of biblical references you could post.

Even then the bibles text for the most part is subjective.
Cetainly a far cry from saying it all fits the same way.

As for the whole "best fps currently released" goes, I think everyones making a big deal about sod all. Personally I don't agree, although I've not played much of Halo 3 yet due to free-time that just not had.. personally I can think of a number of FPS games that I prefer and think are better than any of the Halo-series.

That said, I still firmly believe the best computer game to date is Elite 2 : Frontier. I know that very few people agree with me on that but why the hell would I care if you think I'm wrong about that .. it's the game I've played the most, longest and still enjoy completely after 14years. You can't tell me I'm wrong about it, but you can disagree because you might like something else more.

Entertainment, like games is completely down to personal preferences. I could hammer on about how I feel Ghost in the Shell is the best damn movie period.. does it mean I'm wrong simply because you might like Spiderman 3 more, which I thought was a pile of garbage? No, it means we have different tastes.
Live with it, ain't your place to change my mind about something any more than it's my place to change yours.

If we all liked the same thing, game development would be a damn boring job.

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entomophobiac
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 17:09
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Quote: "but honestly I thought bioshock was better because it was something different"


I don't really agree that it was "different" in the more general sense, but story-wise it is a presentation prize-winner most definitely. Didn't like the game itself, though. Too repetitive and it had virtually no restrictions either, as you "respawned" whenever you died. Why bother buying health packs when you can "grind" your way through with enough patience?

But the plot twist it has is simply genious!

Halo 3 has a very archetypical human desperation storyline, but mixes it with a lot of interesting twists. It's really not that insanely remarkable in the story department, but what it does it does very well.
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tha_rami
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 17:29
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Quote: "Halo 3 has a very archetypical human desperation storyline, but mixes it with a lot of interesting twists. It's really not that insanely remarkable in the story department, but what it does it does very well."


I always found Halos story a bit of Dan Brown - it's always the same, but rather good at capturing the masses. And me as well, by the way.

Hah, I love how people say Halo is not special. Halo is just exceptionally good at everything it does. Just as Deus Ex, which in fact is 'just' a FPS with RPG elements. And Metal Gear Solid, just a top down game in which you avoid being seen. And a bit like Super Mario Bros, which was just another platform-type game.

Bioshock, for me, was a big disappointment. Too overhyped, the Plasmid idea sucked, the ending felt very rushed and honestly, I didn't feel like it was that revolutionary. I played through it and started again, to see if it would be more fun, but stopped after a while. Back to Halo.


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