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3 Dimensional Chat / Low-Poly Person - C&C Needed!

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BMacZero
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Posted: 17th Apr 2009 00:54 Edited at: 30th May 2009 17:22
Josh Mooney has kindly offered to texture this person model I've been using in Fields, my RTS, so I'd like to make sure the mesh is up to a decent standard before he puts all that work in. If anyone notices anything that I should change, fire away!

I'm actually quite happy with the arms, legs, and head/neck, but the hip area and the shoulders are giving me a little bit of concern. If anyone could quantify this for me, I'd appreciate it .

(Removed old pics 5/30/09)



And now:




Diggsey: I have a spine and memory, but one memorable guy says he hates me. What am I?
greenlig
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Posted: 17th Apr 2009 01:22
Hey Bmac, nice model. From the perspective view he has a pretty good weight about him! I do have a few suggestions if that is alright.

When modelling, its a good idea to use as many quads (four sided polygons) as possible. It keeps the mesh clean, and edge loops easier to establish. Down the middle of your model there are quite a few triangles. See on the sides of your model there are nice quads, on the front, and down the middle of the back, there are quite a few triangles that can be converted to polygons.

To convert them in blender, select the two triangles you want to form a quad, and press "F". This will form a new face from the triangles. It may still be a little funky as it doesn't align the faces into one flat face, it just removes the edge that separates them. To overcome this, go into vertex mode, select the 4 vertices that form the face, and scale ('S') along the closest perpendicular axis. Basically, it's the axis that the quad is facing towards. I reckon it will be the Y axis for this model, but maybe the X axis. When you have pressed scale->axis (S then Y), now press 0 (not keypad). This will scale all the vertices along that axis to the averaged base location on that axis. Not easy to describe, but you will see what I mean. The vertices will all scale to the same position on the Y axis, making the quad flat. Once you do it a few times you will realise it is really easy and quick. Continue until you have a lot of lovely, flat quads on your model Also, some vertices might not be flat on an axis, such as the slightly rotate ones on the side. With this, you just have to scale it along the closest axis. It will mess up your vertices a tiny bit, but then you can just rotate the flat face back to the position you wanted.

Hope that helped. I really should have put images in. If you get stuck, I will do that

Also, you could add a few extra loops around the upper thigh area. It will make animating him a little easier, and give you a nice mesh. To add loops, press K->loop cut (I think...off the top of my head here).

Greenlig

P.S. - This message could be incoherent. Lack. Of. Sleepy. Goodness.

Blender3D - GIMP - WINXP - DBPro
nackidno
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Posted: 17th Apr 2009 01:24 Edited at: 17th Apr 2009 01:26
I think you could make the stomach a little smaller? it looks kinda weird when it's perfectly parallel with the thorax.

Just a wee wee little though. Nothing big.

"Ja, för det är jävligt manligt att ligga fosterställning i duschen och raka röven! Testa det! "

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 17th Apr 2009 02:08 Edited at: 17th Apr 2009 02:11
You've got the basic shape set out, but I think you need to make the guy a little less blocky.
As nackidno has already pointed out, you need to do something with his waistline.

I think greenlig has said all there is to say!

I have a really nice reference picture here, which might help. I have absolutely no idea where I have got this from. It has been collecting dust on my hard drive for a while now.



Hope that helps

BMacZero
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Posted: 17th Apr 2009 02:43 Edited at: 30th May 2009 17:22
Thanks for all the suggestions! I've been tweaking it around trying to follow them. It's definitely starting to look lots less boxy. I'll keep tweaking, though.

(Edit: See first post for images)



Diggsey: I have a spine and memory, but one memorable guy says he hates me. What am I?
thenerd
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Posted: 17th Apr 2009 03:03
subdivide it and it will be perfect!

hi
BMacZero
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Posted: 17th Apr 2009 03:23
Thanks for the reminder - however when I tried a subsurf the polycount jumped from 248 to 948, which I'm calling unacceptable considering that this is an RTS model. It also caused the feet (shoes) to look rather strange. I'll just keep tweaking. I might add a few more loop cuts as well.



greenlig
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Posted: 17th Apr 2009 04:09
Looking very good BMac!!

Have a geeze at the image Biggadd put up, specifically the side shot. See how the hips are rotated forwards, the torso leans back, and the head then leans forward a bit? That's the subtle 'S' bend that good poses have. I suggest tweaking the rotation of those elements and matching the side pose of your model to that image. No need to tweak the mesh excessively, just rotate some faces

Greenlig

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Azunaki
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Posted: 17th Apr 2009 08:02
i have a few suggestions.

1. round the face out a bit.(sub dividing basically but with the knife tool)
2. add some muscle to it. textures won't solve everything and if you want ti to look somewhat realistic then you should add the curves to the muscle and detail it with a texture.

that's all i can think of right now.
Alucard94
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Posted: 17th Apr 2009 08:11
You have a lot of anatomy issues as pointed out previously, also try and get some good geometry for the shoulder to help the heave deforming that probably will need to happen there.


Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.
Sid Sinister
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Posted: 17th Apr 2009 11:15
Don't be afraid to get in there and add poly's. By the looks of it, you still have plenty of poly's to go before you leave the low poly realm. I find it easier to add too much detail first and then go back and reduce the poly's later if I need to. This allows me to find a better edge flow early on, to stick with it, and also to figure out which areas need more detail than others. Keep at it!

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
Current Project: http://strewnfield.wordpress.com/
henry ham
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Posted: 17th Apr 2009 13:15
hi mate

here is a shot of one of my base meshes its fairly low poly but the edge flow is about right ,it should help you with some of your issues.also before you start modeling its best to setup front & side reference images on planes within your modeling program, then you can build your model to the basic proportions of the images.

hope this helps





cheers henry

AndrewT
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Posted: 17th Apr 2009 13:29
Quote: "Don't be afraid to get in there and add poly's. By the looks of it, you still have plenty of poly's to go before you leave the low poly realm"


While it is true that he's got a ways to go before it becomes high-poly he did mention that it's for an RTS, so there could potentially be hundreds of these on-screen at once.

i like orange
lazerus
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Posted: 17th Apr 2009 14:57 Edited at: 17th Apr 2009 14:57
Tadaa this is the third time ive gave this tut out this week,

http://www.poopinmymouth.com/process/character_tutorial/character_process.htm

Ignore the name of the site, irratating, i know but i wouldn't post it if it wasn't any good, it shows back to back character modeling,

And like ive said in all the other posts, New MOD Ban me if it anit what i said it is.

cheers cb

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JLMoondog
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Posted: 17th Apr 2009 15:40
Honestly I'd go as low poly as possible. If you have a copy of WarcraftIII, use that as a reference. The models are under 300 polys(maybe even less), it's the texture that makes them stand out.

When I first started to learn how to model humanoids I used the strategy guide to tomb raider 1 as a reference. On the sides of the pages were random images of Lara, random villain and some animals. Now that was low poly!

Eventually I upgraded to studying other game models, most notably the scenario selection screen character models from Warcraft III.

I later was fortunate to befriend a guy who went by Sir_Manfred who taught me everything about topology and and edge loops. He was a god of modeling.(Last we talked, he was working on Gears of War)

So basically I'm saying(well, most of this was a ramble) low poly=good.

greenlig
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Posted: 17th Apr 2009 15:51
@ Josh - couldn't agree more about the low poly modelling. Textures will make your models sing. A good texture artist is like gold!

Also, Sir_Manfred was awesome. I haven't seen him around here for years! I remember seeing his stuff and just being in awe. So much skill.

Greenlig

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JLMoondog
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Posted: 17th Apr 2009 18:44
I think I might wip up a tutorial on low-poly modeling. Could be useful to people here. It's not that it's hard in execution, but in properly planning out poly usage and placement.

yes, I think I will make one

Richard K
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Posted: 17th Apr 2009 18:55
Since this is for an RTS, you may want to prepare your models in the most used "pose". For example if you are making troopers holding guns, you may want to model the arms to the torso's holding the weapons and just animating the legs and heads to walk/turn. no need for animating/stretching polys on the torso (just add muzzle-flashes).

This wouldn't work so well with sword-slashing models. hehe.
tatts
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 00:19
http://www.pig-brain.com/tut02/tut02_01.htm

I found this usefull. It shows how model joint areas such as elbows, knees, hands. more or less how to design your mesh so these areas deform properly when it comes time for animation.
JimB
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 00:38 Edited at: 18th Apr 2009 00:38
Strelok
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 01:20
Looks like a nice start !

you can find more reference here .


BMacZero
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 02:20 Edited at: 18th Apr 2009 02:22
Gah!! Too much information! *brain explodes*





Thank you for all the info! This has become like an encyclopedia for low-poly person modelling. I've been trying to apply all this knowledge as you posted it - the S-shape was pretty straightforward, Henry and Jim, your models were a great help when I was trying to figure out the shoulders. Tatts, that was a good tutorial, I tried to apply that. And all the other people I can't type out credit for, I applied some of your suggestions as well .

It's now 385 polies, and I think I'm just going to do some work on the lower neck/shoulder area and the feet right now (unless anyone spots anything new )



henry ham
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 03:14
thats a huge leap forward from your first post its looking good .i think you should add an extra loop around the lower leg to define the calf area & narrow down the forarms a bit .

keep it up mate
cheers henry

greenlig
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 03:36
Give the man a bum! lol, just pull out some edges where his bum should be. I would hesitate adding many more polygons now. Keep it under 400 if you can, and let the texture do the rest. I like what you did with the face. It will keep it low polygon, but adds that little bit of detail needed for a profile.

Another thing, in the side profile, I would suggest pushing his knee vertices forward a little bit more, and dropping them down a tad. The thigh should be a touch longer than it is at the moment. Not much to change really!

Honestly Bmac, a lot of the advice you will now get will be close critique, which means you have made a very serviceable model! Great work!!

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BMacZero
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 03:40
Great news, Greenlig . I'll see what I can do with yours and Henry's last suggestions on Monday, unfortunately I'm going to be gone all weekend, and right when I was almost done. *sigh*



greenlig
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 05:30
It's all good. Having a weekend off to think about it will be good. Come back with renewed vigour and you are set

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BMacZero
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 05:42 Edited at: 18th Apr 2009 05:52
Cheers!

(gah, there's so much low-poly stuff up here, I almost posted in Josh's tutorial thread )



JLMoondog
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 07:09
I think an invasion has just began! A post goes up stating we need a 3d mod and all low poly modeling heck is let loose!

No complaints from me though, it's kul to see so many working and learning 3d modeling.

Alucard94
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 10:50
Bmac I suggest watching the Low poly character tutorial on here: http://www.montagestudio.org/Tutorials.html
I suggest downloading it as you get way higher res than watching the vimeo one.


Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.

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