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Geek Culture / Xbox One

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FLAME123
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 00:06
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I'm sure many of you are aware that the new home console from Microsoft was revealed today in a rather short conference.

Now, not meaning to sound like a Sony fanboy or anything but I found the conference to be rather lacklustre in terms of showcasing the GAMING aspects of the new Xbox. All I witnessed was a couple of generic promotional interviews with sporting athletes and only three game reveals (but I guess it's technically two since COD Ghosts was already announced.) Even though, I must admit that fifteen exclusive titles in the first year of the new Xbox is impressive with 1 or 8 of them being new series.

For me the conference seemed to concentrate on the Xbox doing everything else, becoming an all-in-one entertainment machine, with a strong focus on watching TV on the console or browsing the internet and accessing social media. (So basically what people already do with PC's and Freeview boxes (or whatever the non-British equivalent is).)

Then there was the hardware specifications, I admit, at first glance it's pretty impressive and seemingly on par with the PS4 but then I realised that they didn't really go into much detail unlike the unveiling of the PS4. For example, it mentions "8GB of RAM" Okay but what kind of RAM are we talking here, surely if it's equivalent to Sony's effort, there wouldn't be a need to hide it.

And THEN there's the way games are handled, it seems rumours about the new Xbox denying players to play pre-owned games may be a reality after all. This is because upon mandatory installation of the game, it is I believe, permanently assigned to that Xbox live account, therefore only that user may play it. But I guess if you're used to buying games off Steam or just buying brand-new games exclusively then this won't be a problem.

And to conclude, this whole partnership between EA Sports and Microsoft has so far resulted in Fifa 14's Ultimate Team mode being exclusive to Xbox One users. (Could this indicate that there will be many micro-transactions for Xbox One users to come throughout the product's life-cycle? )

I may be aesthetically wrong or misinformed in some regards about the new system but from what I have seen, I think I'm going to stick with the PS4 for the next generation.
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Blobby 101
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 00:54
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I'll probably be getting a PS4, but I think it's quite a good move for Microsoft to go in the direction of a media hub that plays games rather than a games console. A device like that seems pretty useful in general, and if I had money lying around I would probably get both xD

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 01:36
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Given that both consoles are debuting with x86 architectures if the rumours are true, there should be a much easier-going atmosphere of cross-platform development between each other and the PC.

Of course, I'd rather just build myself a PC over the course of two or three months than get one of these. Apparently Kinect is now mandatory, and that pre-owned thing seems to sign it to the console, (hardware,) not the username. At least, that's what I get from the rumours and digests posted online, I haven't seen it myself. It also looks like a WiiCR.

I can't see MS surviving to the 2020s as anything more than a shrinking minority at this point. Everyone's lining up to get their turn in the firing squad. Google and Apple dominate them in mobile, Sony's shares actually rose on the XBox reveal - yes, their rival is making more money already because it went that badly - and there's the push to get Linux into the gamer zeitgeist rather than Windows, apparently that's going very well, if slowly. Not least because Windows 8 was as well received as a greasy bacon sandwich in a Synagogue.

They may pull back, or win out in some way or other, but I'm not seeing the hype that the 360 pulled. When it was building up to the release, people could not wait, it would revolutionise everything, etc, etc.

The reaction now is eh. Just eh, followed by a Share on Facebook with a VCR photoshopped into the ad material.
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swissolo
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 02:08 Edited at: 22nd May 2013 02:11
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Quote: "x86 architectures"

er, not x64? Interesting.

Quote: "Of course, I'd rather just build myself a PC over the course of two or three months than get one of these."

Just about every single one of us forumers will probably share that view But it doesn't really take 2-3 months... Just some research && online purchases spread out over free time followed by an epic weekend in a cave.

Quote: "I can't see MS surviving to the 2020s as anything more than a shrinking minority at this point"

I assume the business aspect of Microsoft will keep them running for quite a while even if they eventually give up releasing main stream products.

I found the E3 announcement quite comical though. Boy did they try to sell it like a gift from the heavens (not that I'd expect anything else) I'm sure people will complain about it all over the internet yet it will creep into the majority of console households anyways. Most 360 users will be forced to move up to it if they intend to play any new releases. It doesn't really interest me that greatly though (although some of the kinect stuff is undoubtably quite cool). But in the PS4 v. Xbox One department, I'd surely pick the Xbox. I'd personally never want to own a modern Sony product.

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Indicium
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 02:13
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Quote: "er, not x64? Interesting."


x64 is actually x86-64


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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budokaiman
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 02:26
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Anyone remember how it was stated that the new Xbox didn't require an "always online" connection?

http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-does-require-internet-connection-cant-play-o-509164109

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swissolo
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 03:25
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Quote: "x64 is actually x86-64"

I realised that just after I posted but left it because I wasn't quite sure if CG meant 32 bit himself. I suspect he did not since he referred to porting ease.

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Indicium
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 04:39 Edited at: 22nd May 2013 04:40
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I can only assume it's a 64-bit chip if the Xbox One has 8GiB of RAM. AFAIK porting from x86 to x86-64 is fairly unproblematic, but I could be very wrong about that as I've never needed to do it. (That meaning I've never developed a 64-bit application, only a 32-bit running on a 64-bit chip)


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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mr Handy
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 08:35
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For the next ten years we will see how powerful machine will run few beautiful but boring games. Beautiful means using 100% of power and boring means that all money will be putted into graphics, as power (and players) requires. I am very sure and sad.

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Airslide
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 08:45
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Quote: "and that pre-owned thing seems to sign it to the console, (hardware,) not the username."


From what I gathered from a couple of articles, the games are tied to an Xbox Live account (I can't imagine why Microsoft would tie it to the console when the account is already used for downloaded games) and can be associated with another for a yet undetermined fee.

There's some things about the Xbox One that I do think look cool, but I'm not as excited about it as I was with the 360. And since I already have an Apple TV (which AirPlay makes too valuable to dispose of), I'm really only interested it in for the games - the rest is neat but kind of moot.

My biggest problem is the lack of backwards compatibility. I knew there would be issues in this department but I had hoped they would have an emulation layer or some sort of other solution in the works. For now it looks like I need to hold onto my 360 for awhile if I want to keep playing my fairly large (and recently expanded) collection of 360 games.
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budokaiman
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 14:17
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Quote: "I can only assume it's a 64-bit chip if the Xbox One has 8GiB of RAM. AFAIK porting from x86 to x86-64 is fairly unproblematic, but I could be very wrong about that as I've never needed to do it. (That meaning I've never developed a 64-bit application, only a 32-bit running on a 64-bit chip)
"


It's just a matter of compiling with a 64-bit compiler instead of a 32-bit one. No changes actually have to be made to your program.

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Quik
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 14:21
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cant just be me who thinks the new consoles are quite lackluster in terms of hardware, now can it?



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Van B
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 14:32
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I'll just do what I always do... wait until there's a game that I have to have, and have to have a console to play it. Worked with Halo on the XBox, Dead Rising on the 360, RE4 on the Gamecube, and Killzone3 and LBP on the PS3.

Something very special has to set the standard, otherwise I'll stick with the PC.

I got a fever, and the only prescription, is more memes.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 17:22
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I'd like to know what CPU and GPU it's using.

Also, this looks more like a cable box that happens to play games rather than a game console.

"You're all wrong. You're all idiots." ~Fluffy Rabbit
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ionstream
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 19:25
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The most frustrating thing about the Xbox one is reading the same sentiments over and over with no original critical thinking. Comments and articles on the Internet will be overwhelmingly negative because few people write to not complain about something, and negative articles get page views.

To me the backlash from it requiring an internet connection is the most humorous, because people always come up with these scenarios where they wouldn't have internet and therefore Microsoft is the devil. "What if I go on vacation and there's no internet at the hotel in Myanmar???" Well, then I guess you won't have access to your videogames for a little bit. Somehow the planet keeps on spinning.

Quote: "I can't see MS surviving to the 2020s as anything more than a shrinking minority at this point."


Maybe we should wait for the console to come out and see if people find it fun before we start making decade long predictions. Used games or not, required connection or not, if people have fun on it and enjoy the services, then it's a good console.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 21:53
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Also Xbox wants to connect to M$ once a day. Nopony said what if it's not connected. Also no more second hand games.

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 22nd May 2013 23:02 Edited at: 22nd May 2013 23:18
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I think i had an xbox 1 lying around for a while somewhere in my apartment. Exept its labelled sony for some reason

[EDIT]
sorry if the pic is too large, i am too lazy to resize it
[/EDIT]

uhh never mind. It was a running gag of a VHS player with an xbox label because xbox 1 looks like a VHS player...
whatever.

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 00:31 Edited at: 23rd May 2013 00:34
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Quote: "To me the backlash from it requiring an internet connection is the most humorous, because people always come up with these scenarios where they wouldn't have internet and therefore Microsoft is the devil. "What if I go on vacation and there's no internet at the hotel in Myanmar???" Well, then I guess you won't have access to your videogames for a little bit. Somehow the planet keeps on spinning."


I haven't had an internet connection on my 360 for 18 months. It's in a shed converted to a sort of gaming den with a couch, TV with surround and the ol' 'Box itself. My Sky router simply doesn't get a stable connection this far from the living room, it's at the bottom of the garden as it is.

So some of us ignorant critics genuinely do assess the product vs our needs. If we bought it then assessed it, we'd be morons.
I personally think Last of Us and Destiny are more enticing exclusives than Halo 5 and Forza, and I loved the first five Halos.

Quote: "Maybe we should wait for the console to come out and see if people find it fun before we start making decade long predictions. Used games or not, required connection or not, if people have fun on it and enjoy the services, then it's a good console."


Console was only a small part of that prediction, and I automatically assume that people read my predictions as just Some Guy on teh netz as opposed to Nostrodamus Christ himself.

/Edit/

Apparently the internet connection isn't the only thing that's Always On:
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/156515-kinect-for-xbox-one-an-always-on-works-in-the-dark-camera-and-microphone-what-could-possibly-go-wrong
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Indicium
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 01:34
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Quote: " My Sky router simply doesn't get a stable connection this far from the living room,"


Odd, my Sky router simply doesn't get a stable connection more than 30cm from the antenna. Maybe time to run a thick waterproof ethernet cable down to the den?


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 01:37 Edited at: 23rd May 2013 01:38
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The Xbox One doesn't require an always-on internet connection, it's just Kinect that will always be on.

May I point out that people can easily circumvent the always-on Kinect by simply unplugging their Xbox One? The date and time won't be affected, as I'm sure it will get that information from the internet upon start-up (just like the 360 did and computers do), soo... really the only thing you'd be missing out on is turning your Xbox One on via your voice.

Also, you can duct tape the lens, and the mic.

But seriously, it sounds like an OK console, but not quite as "wow" as I was hoping. I never owned a 360 and put buying one off because of the new One coming out. I'll probably still buy the One, as it still sounds like a cool console.

And yes, it does look a bit like a VCR, but I kinda like it because it's not that super curvy mess that the 360 was...

EDIT: I shouldn't say "mess", I should say it just wasn't as visually appealing, and looked kind of cheap. Just my opinion, but I liked the slim versions a lot better.

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Dar13
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 04:56
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Quote: "I'd like to know what CPU and GPU it's using."

It's using an AMD 8-core "Jaguar" CPU clocked at ~1.6 GHz with a custom GPU the rough equivalent of a AMD 7790 @ 800 MHz.

Source image(not necessarily correct on the GPU area, but the CPU/RAM is confirmed to be correct).

WTLD has been put on indefinite hold.
A new project is under initial development now.
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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 07:14
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Entertainment box? Hmmm... Why does this all sound so familiar


Mobile Platforms Are Coming
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Quik
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 08:39
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Quote: "I haven't had an internet connection on my 360 for 18 months."


had it once - to update some sort software to get MOVIES to run...

never used the xbox for movies since. and never had internet on it since.



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Indicium
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 16:46
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Am I the only one concerned that these consoles have completely shamed their "Gaming" PC?


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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Quik
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 17:02
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Quote: "Am I the only one concerned that these consoles have completely shamed their "Gaming" PC?
"


Not sure if i understand what you mean?



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Indicium
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 17:40
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My PC has 4gb RAM, a phenom quadcore, and a HD6850. Both Xbox One and PS4 blow these specs out the water.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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Quik
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 18:06
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I am honestly not familiar with the gpx cards of the consoles - would love to know though, but the "8 core CPU" is not at all impressive, since ATLEAST 4 is standard in a gaming PC

and what is it? 8gb ram? that IS standard on gaming PCs

so - just from that, it's not impressive in the least



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ionstream
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 18:17
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Quote: "So some of us ignorant critics genuinely do assess the product vs our needs. If we bought it then assessed it, we'd be morons."


That's partially a good point, except for the fact that you haven't assessed the product yet. Numerous negative articles and consenting complaints on the internet hardly makes any of us informed. Assessing means, does the device do what I'd like it to do and do I have fun on it. It sounds like it wouldn't be a major stretch to get internet in your den if it was that important to you.

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Dar13
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 18:46
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8-core clocked at 1.6 GHz is underwhelming, though if they parallelize properly it could be quite powerful. The GPUs are pretty good, but what really impresses me is the GDDR5 RAM that the PS4 is going to get. That stuff is crazy fast(my 550Ti has 2GB of GDDR4/5 IIRC).

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mr Handy
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Posted: 23rd May 2013 18:56
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Quote: "8-core clocked at 1.6 GHz is underwhelming, though if they parallelize properly it could be quite powerful."

Still x86 not x64

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Airslide
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Posted: 24th May 2013 01:06
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Quote: "Still x86 not x64"


It's x86-64. There is no such thing as x64. It wouldn't be able to access all 8GB of RAM if it wasn't 64-bit.
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Indicium
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Posted: 24th May 2013 01:14
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Since when is 8gb RAM the standard for gaming PC? For one I didn't realise there were defined standards, and aren't games still 32 bit, thus not utilizing more than ~4GiB?


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 24th May 2013 01:24
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Quote: "That's partially a good point, except for the fact that you haven't assessed the product yet. Numerous negative articles and consenting complaints on the internet hardly makes any of us informed. Assessing means, does the device do what I'd like it to do and do I have fun on it. It sounds like it wouldn't be a major stretch to get internet in your den if it was that important to you."


> Microsoft say XBox requires at least a daily update on the net to use it properly,

> Running a cable through the house is difficult as people who co-habit it really don't want a cable run through. The Sky connection is simply too weak for stable wifi,

> In current gen, I adapted by playing exclusively single player games, the PC is for my multiplayer on Steam,

> If I bought a One to replace my current 360, it would, according to Microsoft, be unable to work without internet,

> Using things I spend money on is important to me,

In case you're still wondering if I actually, genuinely did take the moment to think it through. I did. Regardless of whatever power or quality the console brings out, if it plain a simply cuts to a demand to get a connection to the internet every time on start up, it is useless to me.

Microsoft haven't elaborated how this works at all. In fact, despite huge PR backlash over Always On rumours, they have done nothing to dissuade them until this announcement, and even then it was a kinda, "Yeah, but not always on..."

So will it ask for an internet connection on startup in order to update? Seems sensible enough to sort that immediately, rather like the Dashboard updates on the 360. Will I be able to skip these daily net-checks and continue onwards to simply gunning through a game? I don't know. I imagine they would allow that, but if they haven't, it'd be a downright stupid decision to lock up a console for that.

I'm all okay with DRM saving the creator's right to check I'm not abusing their content, until it impinges on my right to use things I've paid for.

It'll naturally allow you to skip these checks though. Anything else would cause a ridiculous uproar on release day.
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 24th May 2013 01:28
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Quote: "Since when is 8GB RAM the standard for gaming PC?"
Um, quite a while now... Well, the assumption is that a gamer will likely be one to heavily multitask, and that requires a lot of RAM. A single game however, even if rather performance intensive, shouldn't use much more than 4GB RAM I'd assume.

http://www.google.com/
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Quik
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Posted: 24th May 2013 01:33
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Quote: "Since when is 8gb RAM the standard for gaming PC? For one I didn't realise there were defined standards, and aren't games still 32 bit, thus not utilizing more than ~4GiB?"


4gb - with 8gb being for those very dedicated - heck I have 8gb - on my slightly above average computer.

heck - my cousin had 8gb like 5 years ago on his gaming rig..



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Indicium
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Posted: 24th May 2013 01:36 Edited at: 24th May 2013 01:38
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I honestly fail to see how people use so much RAM. For the hell of it I've loaded up a Netbeans project, a Visual Studio 2012 project, GfW, MySQL workbench, Skype, 7 Chrome tabs, Steam, Hamachi, and a high res image loaded into GIMP and I've got myself up to 3.3GiB usage. I never ever have this much stuff open, it's pointless. Edit Half a gig of that usage was the VC++ compiler running when it shouldn't have been, so 2.8GiB. /edit

If you're about to tell me you run games at the same time, that's silly, if you're gaming you don't need anything other than a browser, skype, maybe a music player.

Quote: "Um, quite a while now... "

My point is that there are no standards, that combined with the above reasoning and the fact most games can't use more than 4GiB (unless I'm very mistaken) is why I said what I said.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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Quik
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Posted: 24th May 2013 01:44
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Run games, sometimes leave 3ds max or zbrush up <3ds max takes up 1,5gb btw, and zbrush 600mb>, photoshop might slip open - a lot of chrome tabs ALWAYS open, steam, spotify, LoL client on 300mb, you get the picture - yes I do this, because I can.



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Indicium
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Posted: 24th May 2013 01:46 Edited at: 24th May 2013 01:46
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Okay, you do that because you can. Doesn't by any means make it a standard. For the record, I didn't say my PC was impressive, but you having 8GiB of RAM doesn't make your PC any less daunted by the Xbox1.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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Quik
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Posted: 24th May 2013 01:50
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here's the deal - the Xbox1 is supposed to be superior to the PC, for longer than 5 years - until someone gets the butt out of the chair and decides it's time to make a new console - If the PC is CLOSE to it NOW, i mean the high end ones now - why on earth would it even be comparisable in 5 years?

It's incredibly dull and silly.


I didnt say it was standard beacause i use it however i use it - I meant it was standard because literarily EVERYONE i know - thats remotely interested in gaming, has around 8.



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Indicium
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Posted: 24th May 2013 01:56
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Quote: "- If the PC is CLOSE to it NOW, i mean the high end ones now - why on earth would it even be comparisable in 5 years?"


All I was saying is at release, consoles will be much more powerful. My PC is already due an major overhaul as it's been around 4 years since I first built it, I would expect this to be able to compete for another 5 years either.


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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 24th May 2013 02:07
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Can't consider it standard?? Sure you can, when pretty much everyone who is a gamer has 8GB.

Quote: "you having 8GB of RAM doesn't make your PC any less daunted by the Xbox1."
Daunted huh?? As it stands it's already less powerful than a mid range gaming computer.

http://www.google.com/
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Libervurto
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Posted: 24th May 2013 02:11
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Console and PC architecture are not the same; there's a lot more bang from 8gb on a console than a PC.

The difficulty in learning is not acquiring new knowledge but relinquishing the old.
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 24th May 2013 02:16
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That's correct. One thing to remember, only 5GB will be available to games on the xbox one. However, it still is quite a bit.

Now, taking into consideration the CPU and GPU, I wouldn't say this console is too powerful. The CPU has potential to do a lot with 8 cores, but the software can't mess around if it wants to take full advantage of that.

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Indicium
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Posted: 24th May 2013 02:18
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Quote: "Sure you can, when pretty much everyone who is a gamer has 8GB."


Wrong. Check the steam statistics. There are more people that have 4GiB or less than people that have 4GiB+. I'd like to see where you're coming up with your facts.

Quote: " As it stands it's already less powerful than a mid range gaming computer."

Oh please, yet again you're pulling facts from nowhere. Show me a mid range gaming PC with 8GiB GDDR5.

Quote: "there's a lot more bang from 8gb on a console than a PC."

There's another point!


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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 24th May 2013 02:23 Edited at: 24th May 2013 02:23
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GDDR5? I was unaware of that. In that case, I'll have to agree with you!

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Indicium
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Posted: 24th May 2013 02:25
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The PS4 has GDDR5, the Xbox One has DDR3.


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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 24th May 2013 02:27 Edited at: 24th May 2013 02:28
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Quote: "Show me a mid range gaming PC with 8GiB GDDR5."
So you were trying to say what exactly, here?

I never was talking about the PS4. It does seem like a powerful system.

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Indicium
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Posted: 24th May 2013 02:33
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I apologise, I didn't realise I'd singled out the Xbox rather than both consoles as a collective. I have no doubts the PS4 is going to be a hell of a machine.


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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 24th May 2013 02:36
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Quote: "I apologise"
No problem.

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Le Shorte
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Posted: 24th May 2013 04:01
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Quote: "Show me a mid range gaming PC with 8GiB GDDR5."

That's the thing, though. While 8 gigs of GDDR5 RAM is nice and not a single PC has it because it doesn't exist to the public yet, it doesn't change the fact that the other specs are just average. 8-core @1.6ghz and a 7790 equivalent isn't exactly something that will blow gaming PCs out of the water; just compete with them.

Yes, I live in Wisconsin. No, I don't live on a farm.
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