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Geek Culture / Newsletter Puzzle - April 2014

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BatVink
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Posted: 1st Apr 2014 10:50 Edited at: 1st Apr 2014 17:38
This thread is created for people to post their successes (or failures) with the newsletter teaser (out later today).

[EDIT] For anyone who didn't read the newsletter editorial, put your answers in a code box

For anyone that posted their answer for all to see, read the editorial and understand what you just did!

Braude Interactive
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Posted: 1st Apr 2014 16:59 Edited at: 1st Apr 2014 18:27
Are you allowed to use other numbers (for example in powers?)

I've got 1,2,3,5,6,7 and 0. Struggling on 4,8 and 9... I can do them pretty easily if I can use square roots (power 1/2) but then I'm introducing other numbers!

Also... do you NEED to use all three numbers?


I wish I could change my forum name. I'm not a company, and I'm not 14 anymore. *sigh*
mr Handy
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Posted: 1st Apr 2014 17:09 Edited at: 1st Apr 2014 17:22




P.S. what did I won?

update: I misread 0 and 10, so I'll add 0 and leave 10.

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Braude Interactive
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Posted: 1st Apr 2014 17:10 Edited at: 1st Apr 2014 17:13
Handy! It says no spoilers! Stick that in a code box, I don't want to see it!

EDIT: Thanks! That took some serious self control not to look at yours!

I wish I could change my forum name. I'm not a company, and I'm not 14 anymore. *sigh*
BatVink
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Posted: 1st Apr 2014 17:37
Quote: "Are you allowed to use other numbers (for example in powers?)"


No other numbers allowed

Quote: "Also... do you NEED to use all three numbers?"


Yes

Braude Interactive
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Posted: 1st Apr 2014 17:45
In which case, this is tricky

I wish I could change my forum name. I'm not a company, and I'm not 14 anymore. *sigh*
mr Handy
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Posted: 1st Apr 2014 17:48 Edited at: 1st Apr 2014 17:56
That was an easy mode.

Here is the hard mode:
10 10 10 = 6
11 11 11 = 6
and so on... who's dare?


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Braude Interactive
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Posted: 1st Apr 2014 17:59
Handy -> you've not solved it yet! Your solutions use powers that aren't the correct numbers. You can't use square roots!

I wish I could change my forum name. I'm not a company, and I'm not 14 anymore. *sigh*
mr Handy
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Posted: 1st Apr 2014 18:08
Braude Interactive
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Posted: 1st Apr 2014 18:23
Ha, I'll happily let the square root problem go, that gets me past 4 but x^1/3 just won't cut it for me!

I wish I could change my forum name. I'm not a company, and I'm not 14 anymore. *sigh*
Tallima
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Posted: 1st Apr 2014 18:26
Here's my solution:

Braude Interactive
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Posted: 1st Apr 2014 18:36
How about make it infinitely small, and then make up the rest with:



It's not really ideal, but hey... it says six on my calculator.

I wish I could change my forum name. I'm not a company, and I'm not 14 anymore. *sigh*
NST
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Posted: 1st Apr 2014 19:17
So, if we are not allowed powers, are we allowed roots?
NST
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Posted: 1st Apr 2014 19:29
OK, I'll assume that I am not sticking to the rules;




If I am cheating, then I'm stuffed!
mr Handy
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Posted: 1st Apr 2014 20:06
BTW x^1/3 is ∛

Hey what about the hard mode?! Anyone?

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nonZero
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Posted: 1st Apr 2014 20:23
I finally solved it. Some were tricky, I admit. Anyway, the full answer is:



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mr Handy
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Posted: 1st Apr 2014 20:44
nonZero your answer is not equal to 6 which is not allowed by the rules! You fail

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Phaelax
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2014 00:34 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2014 20:25
I just haven't been able to think of 8 yet without adding exponents.



Green Gandalf
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2014 01:08
What symbols are we allowed to use?

Fancy symbols that aren't generally known ought to be excluded - or at least be made explicitly allowed. In any case, mathematicians invent their own notation to suit the purpose in hand so for that reason alone some ground rules need to be declared. The square root symbol for example has at least two forms, one uses the extra numbers 1 and 2 (or 0 and 5) and the other uses the radical or radix symbol.

Would it be so difficult to declare the list of allowed symbols?



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Zagros
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2014 07:09
Mr. Handy both are easy.

BatVink
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2014 09:17
I'm not a qualified mathematician, but I would say that all symbols that can be inserted without moving the numbers are allowed. That is, all of the numbers are on the same line, none of them are superscript or subscript etc. Symbols that introduce extra numbers or letters are not permitted. All numbers are in decimal notation.

It can be solved using GCSE maths (UK 16 year old exams).

Congratulations to all who have found the answers. It had shown that there are multiple ways to solve many of them.

mr Handy
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2014 09:39
Guys, y u no read the thread? I have already posted a wiki list of all math symbols, and rule says exactly "math symbols".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mathematical_symbols

Zagros
10 + 10 + 10 = 30 ≠ 6
11 x 11 - 11 = 110 ≠ 6

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nonZero
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2014 10:33 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2014 10:43
Can we use bitwise operations?
Can we use algebra?
if not, my answer so far (for real)



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BatVink
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2014 10:49
Quote: "Can we use bitwise operations?
Can we use algebra?"


You don't need bitwise operations
Algebra would involve letters, so no

nonZero, it's not an April fool, they are all possible. Zeros is not actually the most complex.

easter bunny
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2014 11:57 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2014 12:59
SOLVED THEM ALL!



The only possible problems with my answers are they are influenced by programming maths. Some of it might not be official
The problems could be with this:


This is true in programming, but I'm not sure if it's true in normal maths

ohh, well, so happy Kinda sad that that's actually one of the biggest challenges I've had in months

Refer to this table if you don't know what some of the symbols mean some of them are kind of obscure, but they're definitely official

mr Handy
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2014 13:36
easter bunny
Alternative! Cool.


I don't think this is okay:

This is looks like cheating and simply looks not cool. Here:


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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2014 14:17
Quote: "I have already posted a wiki list of all math symbols, and rule says exactly "math symbols"."


Yes - but that illustrates why we need an allowable list - most of the symbols have multiple meanings.

@BatVink

Some of us have no idea what mathematical symbols are known to GCSE maths students - or even what is covered by the syllabus.

Good puzzle despite my grumbles.

mrHandy

I don't understand your complaints about Easter Bunny's solutions.



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BatVink
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2014 15:35 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2014 15:36
@Easter Bunny, your solution for zeros is not allowable, I think. You are using programming notation not mathematical notation (according to people who know more about maths than I do)

@MrHandy, your alternative solution for 8s is not allowable, you have used extra numbers.

Quote: "that illustrates why we need an allowable list - most of the symbols have multiple meanings.

Some of us have no idea what mathematical symbols are known to GCSE maths students - or even what is covered by the syllabus"


It's a difficult one to answer based on my limited knowledge of maths. But that statement in itself tells you something - I have limited knowledge but understand the answers. I also have a GCSE-level daughter so I could ask her if she covered this stuff. It's beyond multiplication and division but not complex enough to spill over into several lines of explanation.

I also picked this puzzle because there are no methods that will make you groan or shake your head, it's all perfectly legitimate calculation.

Phaelax
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2014 19:23
Quote: "10 + 10 + 10 = 30 ≠ 6"

Zagros said Base 2, aka binary. Therefore 10 = 2. So I suppose a better way to write that would be:

bin(10) + bin(10) + bin(10) = dec(6)


Quote: "@Easter Bunny, your solution for zeros is not allowable, I think. You are using programming notation not mathematical notation"

! is a mathematical symbol for factorial. !0 = 1 and !3 = 6


Quote: "
!0 = 1
!1 = 0
!123=0"


Well actually !1 still equals 1. And !123 equals a very very large number.

BatVink
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2014 19:27
For factorials, the ! Comes after the number, not before

Phaelax
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2014 20:24
Oops, I gotta correct mine then!

mr Handy
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2014 20:39 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2014 21:18
@BatVink
Okay, you don't want cuberoot? Here is "uncool" soultion:


@GreenGandalf
That is correct, indeed, but it looks pfffft. Extended explanation:
IMHO, pal!

@Phaelax
Quote: "Zagros said Base 2, aka binary."

Ooooooooooh, okay then! That's was smart!

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BatVink
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2014 22:13
Quote: "Okay, **you** don't want cuberoot?"

I'm just quoting this for one reason...it's not **my** puzzle, I'm just passing it on to you. I saw a German guy presenting it and I just had to share it. I failed to get two of them.

Maybe I should say that you should try to find the simplest way to get to the answers. One thing I will say is this...none of the mathematical symbols required contain letters (a-Z). Things like floor are not necessary.

easter bunny
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2014 01:29 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2014 01:44
Phaelax,
Yep, that wasn't factorial, it was logical not



Mr Handy, my answer for 8s is mathematically fine.

Refer to this table: http://www.rapidtables.com/math/symbols/Basic_Math_Symbols.htm



floor might not be necessary, but it's not banned


As for my 0's and 9's, fair enough, although for a forum full of coders, it's understandable, right?






oh, and if programming is allowed:



EDIT: wow, all these not's and factorials are confusing

Hodgey
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2014 04:11
You guys seem to have solved them all. As 8 seems the trickiest I want to have a shot.

I was taught at uni that there is something known as a double factorial ie !!.

8!! / 8 / 8 = 6

8 * 6 * 4 * 2 / 8 / 8 = 6

So that's my answer for 8 8 8.
easter bunny
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2014 06:04
According to Wikipedia, double factorials are odd numbers only.
My answer might appear to be cheating, but it's definitely legit

Mind posting the official answers Batvink?

Braude Interactive
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2014 11:15
Yeah... it's just 8 that I can't get. I'm happy to use square roots though I think.

I wish I could change my forum name. I'm not a company, and I'm not 14 anymore. *sigh*
BatVink
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2014 12:07
Quote: " it's just 8 that I can't get. I'm happy to use square roots though I think"


A small spoiler if you want it



But just to reiterate, there is more than one way to solve most of the lines. The puzzle is more about finding any acceptable solution. I guess acceptable is whether you are happy with it. I will post the answers I was given shortly, which are all quite neat and tidy.

mr Handy
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2014 12:12
@BatVink
Quote: "I'm just quoting this for one reason...it's not **my** puzzle, I'm just passing it on to you."

You are the person who declared this puzzle, so you can dislike some solutions, it's okay.

@easter bunny
I said that your answers are correct, but I just wanted a better solution, like Hodgey did:


Also, Hodgey - congrats on the best solution for 8 so far!

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2014 14:04 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2014 14:21
Quote: "I also picked this puzzle because there are no methods that will make you groan or shake your head, it's all perfectly legitimate calculation."




It would be nice to know whether or not the various "floor" symbols are allowed.

The various "double factorial" solutions seem to add to the misery . Taking the Wikipedia definition then you could have



or perhaps



But I feel we are wandering away from the spirit of the puzzle with all these "exotic" notational variants.

Awaiting the "official" solutions with eager anticipation.

[Edit: I can't believe I wrote those two "solutions". . Perhaps I should return to something trivial like shaders. ]

[Edit2: Nothing like a need to redeem oneself to sharpen the mind. How about this:



?]



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mr Handy
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2014 15:20 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2014 15:21
A kinky solution of 8:



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BatVink
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2014 15:37
These are the answers from the presentation I was given. They are not the de facto solution, but they are all neat. Open only if you've come to the end of your patience.

I'll give Green Gandalf the creativity award for his last solution for the 8s.



nonZero
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2014 15:50 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2014 15:52
By Algebra, I meant like equations and stuff. It doesn't have to have letters in it, does it? Or is my memory from high school that foggy?
Anyway, here's my answers so far. I'm gonna quit after posting and look at the answers. If I missed something obvious, I'll blame it on having not used high school mathematics in years. (I hope my characters display. I used square and cube roots since they're on a calculator and I figure that makes it legit).



Edit: Upside down ! and accented I is what the forum turned my root symbols into.


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nonZero
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2014 16:07 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2014 16:20
Let me repost (to prevent cheating)

Fixed.
I was close. I can't believe I missed that first one after actually using the solution too ><
I guess that's what they mean by "creating a mental block".


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mr Handy
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2014 16:19 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2014 16:24
@nonZero

1.
Quote: "9^2=27"


9^2=81!!!

2. some people here hate numbers, so try not to use ² and ∛

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nonZero
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2014 16:24
Yeah, I realised that... (was hoping it would go unnoticed). It happens to me a lot when I do too many things at once. I'm busy working atm.

Also, I can't use unicode from my phone very easily.


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mr Handy
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2014 16:26
Oh, you can use ^2 as ² and ^1/3 as ∛

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nonZero
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2014 17:53 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2014 20:15
I did use ^2 (in some places I'm trying not to draw attention to) but I didn't even think of getting fancy and the notation of 8^1/3 implies 8/3 because of operator precedence.

Besides 1/3 as an exponent is only theoretically accurate as a cube root (that's my personal belief on a philosophical level)


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mr Handy
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2014 22:59 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2014 23:00
Quote: "notation of 8^1/3 implies 8/3"

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=8^1%2F3

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2014 23:58
Quote: "I'll give Green Gandalf the creativity award for his last solution for the 8s."


Thanks - but is that with or without a penalty for my previous two daft wrong answers?

Looking forward to the next puzzle.



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