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Geek Culture / Why doesn\'t America use the Metric System?

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mr Handy
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Posted: 21st Aug 2014 22:04
It is interesting theme, but I am not so good in English > text taken from the net (bad language was *)

The Metric System Is Stupid

I’ll concede upfront that the metric system is probably the best system for science and for doing auto repair. The people who do those things seem to like it, and they know their fields better than I do. However, I am too smart to do auto repair and too dumb to do science so I don’t really care. Use the metric system as a specialized system of measurement in those fields all you want, like Kelvin or Sabermetrics.

But for day to day use, the metric system is stupid. America’s courageous resistance of the metric system stands as one of the proudest chapters in our history. One of our virtues is our pragmatism and another is being big and rich. When presented with the metric system we were pragmatic enough to see that it is inferior for daily use and big and rich enough to tell everyone else to cram it with walnuts.

Those unfortunate peoples who have embraced the metric system out of pseudo-rationalism, or who were forced to capitulate to it and now want to maintain the illusion of making a rational choice, will say that the metric system is superior for three basic reasons, each of which is b******t. Let’s go through them.

1) “Le aauuhahaha… your whole system of measurement is based on arbitrary things, like a king’s foot. But le metric system is not arbitrary at all!”

Do we really want to bring up the subject of kings and rational attitudes towards them? Because, most of you metric people live in countries where the proper thing to do is to prostrate yourself before inbreds who were chosen by God to wear golden hats. All of the metric states I have been to are lovely countries full of fine people and delicious food, and at least a few things that were done better than in the U.S. I’m just sayin’…

But let’s set that aside. Firstly, the foot as a unit of measurement dates back to ancient Greece. It is not like some guy picked a random body part from a random king and said, “let’s measure everything by this guy’s feet!” Otherwise, we might have been stuck with impractical units and wound up having to say someone is 2.1 torsos tall, or “yeah, that restaurant is down the road about 8600 KPs (king’s penises).”

People picked a man’s foot because we are human beings. We use our human bodies to interact with the world. So it makes sense and is practical to use our bodies to measure that interaction.

I’m sure they tried hands, heads, femurs and other things, but the foot stuck because it works well in practice. For example, something that was ten feet high was just beyond a man’s reach (they didn’t have black people back then). If you are six feet tall, you are tall. If you are under five feet tall you are very short. Someone who is a foot taller than the next person is much taller. 100 feet is a tall building or a high ledge and if you fell off you would die.

If a king’s foot ever did become involved, it was just because someone said, “hey, our feet are all different sizes, we should have a uniform foot.”

Then someone else said, “Why not use the king’s foot?”

Then the first guy said, “OK, fine.”

How willlllldly irrational!

So the truth is that imperial measurements are not arbitrary at all. To the contrary, they are the product of centuries of pragmatism. Saying that the imperial units are arbitrary is like saying that it is arbitrary for cars to have four wheels and for pants to have two legs. Maybe a more charitable example would be eggs being sold by the dozen. They don’t sell eggs by the dozen because the inventor of the egg carton’s lucky number was twelve. They do it because that’s about how many eggs people want and because dozens and half dozens of things fit well into packages.

The metric system is, of course, based on measuring everything using the circumference of the earth. Why? Well, we do live on planet earth. But other than that it is… guess what? Arbitrary as ****! Could just as easily be the circumference of the moon, or a cantaloupe or the length of The Nile. That base unit did not come from centuries of practical use. It came from some guy pulling it out of his ass.

So this first criticism has it backwards. The imperial system, based on centuries of practical use, is the opposite of arbitrary. The metric system, based on a whim, is as arbitrary as can be. Therefore, if you want to use a system that is not arbitrary, you should use the imperial system.

Clear your mind. Pretend there are no units of measurement at all. It’s not an Anglo vs. Continental thing or an America vs. the world thing.

All of our memories have been wiped out and we are piecing together a new society. For day to day purposes, does it make more sense for us to measure each other by how many feet tall we are, or by how many earths tall we are? 6 feet or 1.82 40 millionths earths?

This is the core of the whole issue. It brings us to the second criticism of the imperial system, which is here:


2) The metric system divides all its units into tenths, but the imperial system does not.

I am an open minded guy. I’ll concede the point that the cartoon makes about dates. I don’t think it’s a very big deal either way, but if someone said we should all switch to DD/MM/YYYY, I wouldn’t care.

But the other point is b******t. Yes, the metric system is based on units of ten. The advantages of this are that 1) It takes you a bit less time to learn measurements when you are in second grade and 2) ????

If it is always better to measure things in tenths, why not time? Do we find it difficult to keep a handle on the fact that there are 24 hours in a day, but 60 minutes in an hour? And seven days in a week? And 365 days in a year! Oh my God, my head is going to explode! It’s almost impossible to keep track of! Because I’m too intelligent and logical to grasp it!

Since the way people measure time now is so irrational, let’s sit back in our armchairs and devise a superior system, which we can then impose on people until they adjust to it and it seems normal to them.

As it stands now, the “day” is the length of time that it takes for the earth to rotate once. Isn’t that kind of arbitrary? Why should we base our measurement of time on the way we experience time? To truly embrace the metric spirit, we would base units of time on something more independent of our own experience. Perhaps, the period between the big bang and the formation of the earth. Isn’t that more objective? The answer is no. But it might seem that way if you were blinded by pretentiousness.

So our basic unit of time can be unimaginably large and applicable only on the cosmic scale. Then we can divide that up into smaller units for day to day use. “Why bother with all of that,” you ask? Because now we can say things like, “I have an appointment in 1.35 eighty trillionths of the time between the big bang and the formation of the earth,” in the same way we use the metric system to say that someone is 1.85 40 millionths of the circumference of the earth tall.

Since that’s a bit hard to imagine, because it is so stupid, let’s just keep the day at the same length. But there can’t be 24 hours. Since everything must be divisible by ten, days can either have 100 hours or 10 hours.

10 hours makes the most sense, I suppose. 100 centihours in an hour. So your hour long session with your doctor or trainer or prostitute is now .42 hours or 42 centihours. What activity takes an hour? It’s hard to think of one. A handful of very long movies are one hour long, but it is pretty uncommon for something to take an hour. A good night’s sleep is between 3.3 and 3.75 hours.

“Did you get your 3.5 hours of sleep last night?”

“No, I only got 2.9 hours. I need at least 3.1, or I’m groggy all day!”

Is that awkward? No, it can’t be because it’s based on units of ten.

We could also work out how to manage with 10 day weeks, 100 day months and 1,000 day years. Seasons? The work week? Please. It is irrational to weigh the practical use of the units above the tremendous value of having them be divisible by ten.

Of course, people are flexible enough to adapt to metric time. If we all said a good night’s sleep was between 3.3 and 3.75 hours, we’d get used to it. Just like people who use the metric system are used to saying that tall man is over 182/100ths, but once you get over 210/100ths, you’re freakishly tall. Or saying that all moderate outside temperatures fall in the 20s.

Let’s try again to look at this with an open mind. There is no system of measurement. Aliens have forced everyone on earth to watch a marathon of “2 Broke Girls” and, as a result, our minds have been completely erased.

Two systems are proposed and before voting for one, you take each out for a test drive.

A) I have to buy new clothes for the kids. Not only has the temperature skyrocked by seven degrees, from the low twenties to the mid twenties, they’ve grown 5 100ths and 8 100ths respectively. I think one day, Steve might be almost 2 units tall. Not, like almost 2 units, as in 195 100ths or something. But definitely more than 3/4ths of 2 units. Maybe 180 100ths. Oh, can you pick up 350/1000ths of ground beef on your way home?

B) I have to buy new clothes for the kids. The temperature has already gone from the sixties to the eighties, plus Sarah has grown two small units and Steve’s grown three! I think one day, Steve’s going to be over six units tall. Can you pick up a unit of ground beef on your way home?

3) Everybody else is doing it.

This is probably the best argument in favor of the metric system. “Just give in so we can all be on the same page.” Maybe life would be easier if we’d all just conform. Like people in a theocratic dictatorship. One belief. One way of doing things. No conflict. Like an oozing hive of mindless invertebrates.

So, I concede that this point, and this one alone, has some merit. I would counter it by saying that the imperial system has character. Even though we don’t use ‘stone’ as a unit of weight in America, and I don’t really know how much it is, I like when I hear the British use it. It adds some flavor.

The colorfulness and descriptiveness of the imperial system is due to the fact that it is rooted in imagery and analogies that make intuitive sense. That is why the foot beat out the nose and the KP to be a unit of measurement in the first place. If someone is seven feet tall, that paints a picture that 2.13 meters just doesn’t. Similarly if I say the temperature was in the 90s and it crept up into the 100s, that’s a vivid picture. It just isn’t captured as well if I say it was 32, and it rose to 36. Yes, someone raised in the metric system will understand what is being referred to, but the reference is made with impoverished language.

I’m not saying the metric system is totalitarian in itself, but this is, of course, the goal of stripping down language in 1984. To remove shades of meaning. To make language a colorless, bland way of making reference to things.



Certainly, the spirit of the metric system is totalitarian. The popular and practical is overwritten by the inane whims of a vanguard of intelligent fools who try to impose a system that they have determined to be superior on the basis of nothing more than their own reflection. This is why totalitarianism and pseudo-rationalism go hand in hand. It requires a totalitarian, or at least highly conformist mindset to adapt the “logical” systems devised by some guy in his office and to reject the pragmatic. Because in the absence of such a mindset, the pragmatic will, almost by definition, triumph.

It’s tempting to be melodramatic here, but I am going to keep my Nazi comparisons reasonable. I’m not going to say the metric system is evil like Hitler or Napoleon or the other tyrants who were popular where the metric system is used. Maybe it’s a coincidence that they used the metric system to build KGB interrogation chambers, guillotines, concentration camps and the hideous Turkish toilets that dominate the continental bathroomscape and maybe it isn’t.

But those systems, whether they imposed racial hierarchy, command economies or measuring the size of a doorway in earths, were all embraced for the same reason. They were embraced by people who did not believe in pragmatism, but favored imposing bland, conformist, “rational” systems devised by the few on everybody. And all of those systems turned out to be stupid and impractical, including the metric system.

Quik
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Posted: 21st Aug 2014 23:19
Quote: "Then someone else said, “Why not use the king’s foot?”
"


Pretty sure the king said; WE USE MY FOOT.

And I'm finding it a bit hard to keep track with your arguments. mostly because I'm not finding any - then it might be me being stupid too.
Well - reason for why Metric is easier and more practical; It's ALWAYS easier to count 10's in this way - whilst the imperial uses weird and odd middle way numbers like "1,6 kilometres being one mile" (in sweden one "mil" is 10 kilometres, flat - much easier and faster to do math in)

And just because it's easier to teach to CHILDREN, doesnt mean it doesnt stay easier.

Well - since I again can't actually find any arguments as to why one is more practical than the other in your text i'll have to leave it at that.



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Posted: 21st Aug 2014 23:29 Edited at: 21st Aug 2014 23:37
OPs post was the biggest bunch of crap I've read in a long time, and I really hope it's satire. It sounds like it was written by a butthurt American who denies logic because he's too proud of himself and his country.

There's a reason time is defined as it is, and that reason is seconds fit into the 7 basic units and 24 hours happens to be one rotation of the earth. If physics didn't have the 7 basic units I'd go bonkers.

In that entire post not a single logical argument was made to support the imperial system.

Thanks but no thanks. You have fun trying to convert your silly FL OZ to Gallons and imperial tons, I'll stick with dividing by 10 and not screwing up my brain as a consequence.

Chris Tate
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Posted: 21st Aug 2014 23:50 Edited at: 21st Aug 2014 23:51
XD

Quote: "If you are six feet tall, you are tall. If you are under five feet tall you are very short. Someone who is a foot taller than the next person is much taller. 100 feet is a tall building or a high ledge and if you fell off you would die.

If a king’s foot ever did become involved, it was just because someone said, “hey, our feet are all different sizes, we should have a uniform foot.”

Then someone else said, “Why not use the king’s foot?”"


I must admit to laughing at that point; for what reason I am laughing a cannot explain.

mr Handy
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2014 00:17
In Russia we used "arshin" (whole hand) and others to measure things. It is way better, as you don't need any rulers, moreover, if you don't have a ruler and need to measure something right now.

Plus keeping the history safe and proud.

Also, if anyone can't calculate in mind something more complicated that 100/5 that is pretty low limit, no good honestly.



The Zoq2
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2014 00:30
Quote: "OPs post was the biggest bunch of crap I've read in a long time, and I really hope it's satire. It sounds like it was written by a butthurt American who denies logic because he's too proud of himself and his country."


I too hope it's satire, but if it isn't here are my comments on it.

Quote: "Because, most of you metric people live in countries where the proper thing to do is to prostrate yourself before inbreds who were chosen by God to wear golden hats. All of the metric states I have been to are lovely countries full of fine people and delicious food, and at least a few things that were done better than in the U.S. I’m just sayin’…"


According to wikipedia, the metric system was invented in france in 1799 which was after the french revolution. Furthermore, no king or queen in europe has any real power anymore anyway.

Quote: "The metric system is, of course, based on
measuring everything using the circumference of the earth. Why? Well, we do live on planet earth. But other than that it is… guess what? Arbitrary as ****! Could just as easily be the circumference of the moon, or a cantaloupe or the length of The Nile. That base unit did not come from centuries of practical use. It came from some guy pulling it out of his ass."


Countrary to the length of a foot, the circumference of the earth is constant and non changing which means that it's a better way to meassure things. Sure, it's arbitrary but so is a "foot", a non arbitrary unit in that case should be the length of ones foot which isn't constant.

Also, when the meter was defined, the people going to the equator didn't manage to get there so they just meassured where the got to and returned, so the meter isn't actually the distance between the equator and the north pole divided by a constant but the distance between the north pole and the place where some french guys gave up at walking to the equator

Quote: "As it stands now, the “day” is the length of time that it takes for the earth to rotate once. Isn’t that kind of arbitrary? Why should we base our measurement of time on the way we experience time? To truly embrace the metric spirit, we would base units of time on something more independent of our own experience. Perhaps, the period between the big bang and the formation of the earth. Isn’t that more objective? The answer is no. But it might seem that way if you were blinded by pretentiousness."


The day is the lenght of time that it takes for the earth to rotate once because it's something we want to keep track of. It would get pretty weird if 12 pm was midday today and midnight in a week. And the reason it makes sense to use it is because it's constant, your full revolution of the earth won't be diffirent to mine.

It was also mentioned that everyone knows that 6 feet is an average height. How is that harder to remember than 175 cm.

Quote: "10 hours makes the most sense, I suppose. 100 centihours in an hour. So your hour long session with your doctor or trainer or prostitute is now .42 hours or 42 centihours. What activity takes an hour? It’s hard to think of one. A handful of very long movies are one hour long, but it is pretty uncommon for something to take an hour. A good night’s sleep is between 3.3 and 3.75 hours."


I would gladly switch to a system with 100 "seconds" per minutes, 100 "minutes" per hour and 10? hours per day (perhaps 20 would make more sense). Precisely 8 hours of sleep was chosen because it's even in this system, in reality it's probably somewhere between 7 and 8 hours and with 20 hours per day, we could still stick with an integer. Things are an hour because one is a nice even number, but having a little bit shorter or longer sessions wouldn't hurt too much. 10 day weeks would also make sense but the argument that the 5-2 day work week is hard to change is pretty solid. Besides, for longer amounts of time, things don't need to be as even since we don't do that many calculations with them.

Changing minutes and hours would make sense if you have ever tried to calculate how long it will take to get to the destination while driving. You know your speed in km per hour but since the hour is 60 minutes, you have to count with that instead of something even that you are used to. But I guess users of the imperial system are used to that , I however, that's pretty bad at doing manual calculations would benefit from 100 minute hours.

Quote: "
B) I have to buy new clothes for the kids. The temperature has already gone from the sixties to the eighties, plus Sarah has grown two small units and Steve’s grown three! I think one day, Steve’s going to be over six units tall. Can you pick up a unit of ground beef on your way home?"

Oh no, they meassure the beef in the other unit, guess i'll have to multiply by that constant.

C) The temperature has dropped below 0, that means water is freezing on the lake. Sarah has grown two cm and steve has grown 3cm, Steve's going to be over 175 cm tall. Can you pick up a kg of ground beef.
Oh no, they meassure the beef in gramms. Guess I just have to multiply by a thousand

I would love to say more on this subject, like we should change to base 12 but it's getting late here. i'll just stop with saying that you still have to learn that 90 degrees is hot and that a 7 feet tall person is tall plus all the constants you need to multiply by if you want to use the units for anything more than shopping. With the metric system you will have to learn that a 210cm tall person is tall and that 30 degrees is hot. But you won't have to learn a constant for converting feet to miles and you won't have to use a diffirent system if you end up wanting to learn some sience. I can't imagine having to use constants in calculations for everything, I have missed enough points on tests by forgetting to multiply by 10 because the units used were mm instead of cm, I would have lost more if I had to multiply by 25.3125 to get the right result

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2014 00:40
Here some food for thought. Notice how despite the fact that most of the world uses the metric system and not the anglo-american system. things like computer monitors and TVs are still measured in Inches and not cm. Out of this comes a weird paradox. I dont know how many inches are in a foot (like 12 or something?) and how many feet in a yard (is it 5.3 feet?)

But...

I can tell approximatley how big a 17 inch monitor or a 50 inch plasma should be.

If you say to me that you got a new 80cm TV i will have trouble imaginging the approximate size of it. Its confusing as hell dealing with 2 measurment systems but the reasons are i am afraid might be even deep enough to be political or financial. When something makes no sence at all its proboly political or financial. Its a way for a piece of Anglo-American culture to be dominant on certain markets like tvs and monitors.

If i had my way TVs would even be measured diagonally but more like 80x40 cm.

Unfourtunatley my plasma is a 50 inch and i have no idea how many cm that is.

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TheComet
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2014 00:44
In the field of electronics we also still use imperial measurements. For instance, the standard distance between the pins on a DIP package is 10mil and not 2.54mm.

What makes this even funnier is that when producing PCBs, even though all of the traces were designed using imperial measurements, the people who print and etch them will round everything to the nearest metric unit (0.01mm if I recall correctly), so there's literally no point in using the imperial system anymore in electronics.

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Posted: 22nd Aug 2014 00:51
Quote: "I can tell approximatley how big a 17 inch monitor or a 50 inch plasma should be. "

I would have a much better idea if it was in centimeters. The only reason i know how big they are is because i've grown up with it; considering most gadgets are measured in cm (like my wacom tablet)



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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2014 01:15
Wacom is perhaps one of the few exeptons. Everything with a screen is measured in inches.

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Posted: 22nd Aug 2014 08:01
Whoever this guy is, he's an ignorant moron. He is evidently NOT smart enough to be a mechanic, as mechanics have to deal with both metric and imperial systems all the time. He has obviously never calculated anything in his life! How can he not see that the metric system is easier to use? Defenders of imperial always bring out this speel that it is more practical for everyday use, but metric has tonnes (metric tonnes) of prefixes so that if stating your height as 180 cm is too much of a strain you can state it as 1.8 m or even 18 dm. Converting between feet and inches and yards and miles is a completely unnecessary waste of time and energy. I wish they would come up with a metric SI unit of time, at least for seconds, minutes and hours in a day, but the Earth goes through 365.25 revolutions per orbit and there's no system that can make that any simpler.

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Posted: 22nd Aug 2014 09:51 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2014 09:52
Edit: never mind, I should have read the original post better


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Posted: 22nd Aug 2014 11:51
Quote: "10 hours makes the most sense, I suppose. 100 centihours in an hour. So your hour long session with your doctor or trainer or prostitute is now .42 hours or 42 centihours. What activity takes an hour? It’s hard to think of one. A handful of very long movies are one hour long, but it is pretty uncommon for something to take an hour. A good night’s sleep is between 3.3 and 3.75 hours.

“Did you get your 3.5 hours of sleep last night?”

“No, I only got 2.9 hours. I need at least 3.1, or I’m groggy all day!”

Is that awkward? No, it can’t be because it’s based on units of ten."


What about 100 hours in a day. Then I would not have to say "I got 7 hours and 12 minutes sleep last night" you could just say "I got 30 hours sleep last night".

Now isn't that much easier, if we use your own argument and turn it around

mr Handy
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2014 16:43
Time is based on 12 (24, 60) because it is easy to divide on 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 15, 20 etc.

Can you divide 1 hour with 100 minutes on 3? There was a thread about 0.3(3) = 1/3, nothing good

Van B
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2014 17:54
The US date format annoys me more than anything.

Like, if all countries just got a grip, and said date data is formatted like YYYY/MM/DD, then we wouldn't have to convert dates back and forth, we could just be strict and do normal string sorts... so sorting by date would be just a string sort, = much faster databases
I do that regardless on my own systems, any internal date that I want to sort on get's the yyyymmdd treatment.

As for metric, well the truth is that nobody is non-metric or metric - everyone who deals in metric will deal in imperial as well, as a technical clerk all those years ago I'd often have to use both on the same drawing. It's a case of using both and being comfortable with both, and remembering the number 25.4, and not being completely useless with fractions. If anything I'd say metric is much easier to work with, because your not worrying about what size 1/16th of an inch actually is - it's about 1.6mm, which is about the width of the creme on a Oreo biscuit, or about the same as an earphone wire. You just need a system like that and it's easy

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Posted: 22nd Aug 2014 18:37 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2014 18:39
Quote: "Like, if all countries just got a grip, and said date data is formatted like YYYY/MM/DD"


ISO 8601
The universally accepted date format of today would be 2014-08-22. The universally accepted time format of now would be 17:37:21 +01:00.

We do have a standard, we just have a lot of idiots who won't accept it.

The format that makes no sense whatsoever is MM/DD/YYYY. Why are months and days switched? I always thought 9/11 happened on the 9th of November, not the 11th of August.

Van B
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2014 19:16
Or September

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Posted: 22nd Aug 2014 19:31 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2014 23:33
Quote: "Or September "

Silly Americans and their off-by-one errors. I start counting my months at 0, just like I count the floors in buildings from 0!

The Zoq2
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2014 20:31
Quote: "What about 100 hours in a day. Then I would not have to say "I got 7 hours and 12 minutes sleep last night" you could just say "I got 30 hours sleep last night".

Now isn't that much easier, if we use your own argument and turn it around "


That would make a lot more sense, and since 100/4 is almost 24, we could just say an hour is 4 "new hours".

Quote: "Time is based on 12 (24, 60) because it is easy to divide on 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 15, 20 etc."


That's a good point, and if there wasn't the issue of everyone having to relearn everything, using base 12 for everyday numbers would make a lot more sense.

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Quik
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2014 01:34
Quote: "We do have a standard, we just have a lot of idiots who won't accept it."

I just really have no idea what the standard in sweden is.. Everyone tells me differently >:



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Posted: 23rd Aug 2014 04:22
Quote: "But for day to day use, the metric system is stupid. America’s courageous resistance of the metric system stands as one of the proudest chapters in our history"


The metric system makes way more sense, the imperial system is stupid and impractical. Take a yard and cut it into 3rds. Now take each "foot" and cut into 12ths. Take each "inch" and cut into halfs/quarters/16ths/32nds. Each further measurement is a different proportion of the previous size. Now metric, it just makes sense.

As far as the illustration goes, the US Army uses the day-month-year format.

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Posted: 23rd Aug 2014 09:33
The dozenal number system is a whole other argument, and I agree it would be better than decimal, there are more whole fractions and learning your times tables would be much easier.

http://www.dozenal.org/articles/DSA-Mult.pdf

Formerly OBese87.
Clonkex
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Posted: 28th Aug 2014 06:24
Totally disagree with OP. Metric just makes sense. Metric is intuitive, imperial is not.

For example, when I go to grab a spanner, and I grab a size too small, I know intuitively that the next size up is simply one number bigger.

Quote: "Maybe it’s a coincidence that they used the metric system to build KGB interrogation chambers, guillotines, concentration camps and the hideous Turkish toilets that dominate the continental bathroomscape and maybe it isn’t."


Whaaaaat. That means absolutely nothing. So you're saying that metric is evil because evil people used it to measure things?? Honestly...

Quote: "Similarly if I say the temperature was in the 90s and it crept up into the 100s, that’s a vivid picture. It just isn’t captured as well if I say it was 32, and it rose to 36."


Again... whaaaaat. That first sentence only applies to Americans because (ignoring those other two tiny countries) they're the only ones that use that system! For me, 32 to 36 means a lot. It paints just as vivid a picture as 90-100 does for you.

Ortu
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Posted: 28th Aug 2014 08:12
oh man, that was just too hilarious not to be satire don't be so serious guys, this is really funny stuff.

Quote: "Changing minutes and hours would make sense if you have ever tried to calculate how long it will take to get to the destination while driving. You know your speed in km per hour but since the hour is 60 minutes, you have to count with that instead of something even that you are used to. But I guess users of the imperial system are used to that , I however, that's pretty bad at doing manual calculations would benefit from 100 minute hours."


this was one advantage to Imperial I suppose. the standard highway speed limit was for the longest time 60 miles per hour, thus one mile per minute.

If a destination was 100 miles away you instantly know it is about an hour and a half. if you are speeding: 70ish, you can trim that down a bit, an hour and a quarter, near enough. 50 miles away = 45 minutes to an hour depending on traffic and so on.

the speed limits are now mostly 70 - 75 though, pushing up to 85 in some places and it is not as instantly clear a ratio of speed to time in your head anymore.

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 28th Aug 2014 08:40
Quote: "the speed limits are now mostly 70 - 75 though, pushing up to 85 in some places"
Are you kidding? That's in Texas, judging by your profile? Here in Colorado, you're lucky to find as high as a 65 limit.

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Posted: 28th Aug 2014 09:32 Edited at: 28th Aug 2014 09:35
Quote: "the speed limits are now mostly 70 - 75 though, pushing up to 85 in some places"


Really?? Wow. In Australia, 100kph (~62mph) is the standard virtually everywhere. Nearing towns the speed drops to 80, 70 in some semi-populated areas that need good traffic flow, 60 in built-up areas with sufficient distance between cars and houses, then 50 in normal built-up/suburban areas. 40 in a CBD or high-pedestrian area (20 in some states). On the other end of the scale, we can go 110kph on freeways. That's pretty much as fast as you can go in Australia. I have a feeling there are/were some roads in the Northern Territory that have/had no limit, but that's because they are dead-straight dust tracks that goes for hundreds upon hundreds of kilometres without a thing in sight.

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Posted: 28th Aug 2014 10:42 Edited at: 28th Aug 2014 10:44
Quote: " I have a feeling there are/were some roads in the Northern Territory that have/had no limit"

They use to have unlimited speed limits, but they were changed to 130km/h a few years back, although I seem to recall hearing that is was back to unlimited just recently......

Edit: Here it is: http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/northern-territory-to-trial-roads-without-speed-limits-20131015-2vjzl.html
Speed limits were removed for a short distance on the major highway out there (yes, 200km is short in outback Aus)


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Clonkex
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Posted: 28th Aug 2014 15:10
Quote: "They use to have unlimited speed limits, but they were changed to 130km/h a few years back, although I seem to recall hearing that is was back to unlimited just recently......"


Yeah, that's why I said are/were and had/have; I wasn't sure. Could have looked it up, I guess

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Posted: 28th Aug 2014 15:22
In Germany it's not uncommon to see people going over 200 km/h... The speed limit is 120 km/h but you very rarely see anyone under 140.

Clonkex
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Posted: 28th Aug 2014 15:31
Quote: "In Germany it's not uncommon to see people going over 200 km/h... The speed limit is 120 km/h but you very rarely see anyone under 140."


Whoa. Not sure if that's a good thing or bad.

mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Aug 2014 18:16 Edited at: 28th Aug 2014 18:17
Why do you need to calculate mph when there is a speedometer in your car.

P.S. if you are on bicycle you don't have a speedometer, but you either can't ride 60 mph

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Posted: 28th Aug 2014 20:11
Quote: "Why do you need to calculate mph when there is a speedometer in your car. "

Welp, you'll have a rough time in a foreign country.



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TheComet
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Posted: 29th Aug 2014 03:41
@handy - In Soviet Russia, don't they just hold their vodka bottle out the door and drag it along the road and depending on what sound it makes know how fast they are going?

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Posted: 29th Aug 2014 04:13 Edited at: 29th Aug 2014 04:16
Quote: "Why do you need to calculate mph when there is a speedometer in your car."


Not by itself, you don't. But if you're calculating how long it will take to get somewhere it's easier to calculate at 60mph than 100kph; however, as people pointed out, MPH speed limits tend to be 65-75 now anyway making it just as difficult (or more so) than 100kph.

Quote: "In Soviet Russia, don't they just hold their vodka bottle out the door and drag it along the road and depending on what sound it makes know how fast they are going?"


lol

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Posted: 29th Aug 2014 04:36
Yes mostly in Texas, we have alot of space and long straight highways. City streets mostly 45 give or take 10 and down to 30 in dense downtown city. AR MO and OH I've been to recently and think highways were still mostly 70. CO is up in the mountains of imagine lower speeds due to steeper grades and more curves around slopes and such

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 29th Aug 2014 07:36
Ah yes, those city limits sounds a lot more familiar to me. Indeed, I live like just a bit beyond the front range, on the mountainous side. Speed limits are usually 50 or 55 on the curvy steep highways, but it goes up to 65 on the straighter and flatter sections.

Dar13
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Posted: 29th Aug 2014 10:32
Quote: " Whoa. Not sure if that's a good thing or bad. "

From what I hear from Germans, it's much harder/expensive to get a driver's license than it is in the U.S. I don't know how hard it is in Australia, but it's still likely easier than it is in Germany.

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Posted: 29th Aug 2014 17:14 Edited at: 29th Aug 2014 17:18
Quote: "I don't know how hard it is in Australia"


I don't have anything to compare it to, but it's not awfully hard in Australia as long as you practice a bit first. Here's a quick run-down of the licensing system for NSW Australia:

At 16 you can get your Learner's license. You can drive at up to 80, must have a fully licensed driver in the passenger's seat, can tow anything and can drive any type of C-class vehicle (cars). You must display big yellow L plates on the front and back of the car. The test is simply a knowledge test, which you can actually do online to practice and it's identical to the real test. I passed with 100% first go.

At 17 and once you've held your Learner's for a whole year, you can get your Provisional 1 (P1) license. You can drive at up to 90, can now drive alone, cannot tow any trailer above 250kg and can't drive cars with more than 6 cylinders or turbo/super chargers (diesels excepted). You must display big red P plates on the front and back of the car. The test is a practical driving test, where an examiner sits in the seat next to you and instructs you where to drive and what to do, taking notes. I passed (though not 100%, the score is difficult to calculate) first go.

At 18 and once you've held your P1's for a whole year, you can get your Provisional 2 (P2) license. You can drive at up to 100, can tow anything and still can't drive with more than 6 cylinders or turbo/super chargers (diesels excepted). You must display big green P plates on the front and back of the car. The test is called the Hazard Perception Test. It's a simple test where videos are played showing a potentially hazardous situation. You tap the screen at the appropriate time when you would brake in real life (such as a woman with a pram stepping out without looking). I passed first go (pass/fail test).

At 20 and once you've held your P2's for two whole years, you can get your full license (frequently called a black license). You can drive at the speed limit (at most 110) and can drive any C-class vehicle. The test is... something I forget. Another knowledge test of some kind, I believe. I'm only 19 and have yet to attempt this test.

EDIT: Oops, actually recently the Learner's limit was increased to 90, so they travel the same speed as P1's. I forgot because when I did my Learner's I could only go 80.

ALSO. Completely forgot. As a Learner, you have a logbook in which to record the hours you've driven. Currently you need to drive a total of 120 hours, of which 20 must be at night. I managed mine in time before my 17th birthday (as did my brother) because we live in the sticks and drive frequently, but I know people that were old enough for their P1's but didn't have the hours up. Additionally, for every hour you spend with a qualified trainer you can record 3 hours in the logbook, up to a maximum recorded total of 30 hours (10 1-hour lessons).

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Posted: 29th Aug 2014 17:38
So in Australia there is no practical driving test?
Wolf
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Posted: 30th Aug 2014 02:03 Edited at: 30th Aug 2014 02:04
In Luxemburg, cameras have been set up decades ago to monitor our highways and put an end to people exceeding the speed limit (130 KMH).

However, there where some law issues and the people who are supposed to take care of that all drive too so nothing happened...and it never will

Quote: "In Germany it's not uncommon to see people going over 200 km/h..."


On the highways. (autobahn) Altough you get stopped a lot by construction sites because germany isn't all that great at the whole infrastructure thing lately. It has 2 major 2 lane bridges that don't connect to anything and just stand around decaying (no joke).

Quote: " I'm only 19 and have yet to attempt this test."


Why did I believe you to be 33?



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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 30th Aug 2014 02:41
Quote: "I'm only 19"
Whoaaa, I thought you were at least 20 years older. Don't take that badly, it just means you are superbly mature for your age.

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Posted: 30th Aug 2014 06:47 Edited at: 30th Aug 2014 06:49
@Clonkex - now you are allowed to go whatever the speed limit is as a learner or P plater. I think the old slower speed limits were putting inexperienced drivers at Un-nessisary risk so they ditched them.

@Indicum - There is a practical test for your P's.

Quote: "In Germany it's not uncommon to see people going over 200 km/h... The speed limit is 120 km/h but you very rarely see anyone under 140."


In Australia you would be crucified for that sort of thing. we have permanent speed cameras all over the place, and even point to point camera systems so that if you just slow down for the cameras they can still get you for traveling further than you should have been able to. Our road rules are very strictly upheld and punished. I was recently in China and was horrified as my taxi driver was weaving and swerving through high speed traffic whilst texting.(Texting here is on par with drink driving)

on an on topic note, I use my feet to measure at work, but that's because my boots are 30cms long.

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Ortu
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Posted: 30th Aug 2014 08:26 Edited at: 30th Aug 2014 08:29
Quote: ".(Texting here is on par with drink driving)"


Same here actually, and they keep putting up new bills to regulate and further limit device usage in vehicles every couple of years.

We have lots of camera's on highways but they aren't used to catch speeding. We do have red-light cameras in many places that send out tickets for running them, and camera's at toll stations that scan for toll-tags and to send you a bill when you pass through if you don't have one.

For licensing: I think it varies by state, For Texas if I remember right, you could take a drivers education course at 15 and get a learners permit. Possibly, if you didn't take the course you had to wait till 16, but I don't remember exactly. I do remember that I took the course and got it at 15.

The course involved classroom lectures, reading, videos and then a written exam part way through. Once you pass that exam, you get a learners permit and continue with both the classroom stuff as well as a certain number of hours driving with an instructor. With a learners permit you could drive any class-c but were restricted to driving only with a fully licensed adult (18+) in the passenger seat. There were no special limits on speed other than just the normal posted limit signs.

At 16 you can take the state exam which includes both a lengthy written (well, computerized) test and a driving portion with an examiner. You have to pass the written before you can take the drive around, but it is not uncommon to do both the same day. Once both are passed, you are fully licensed. The only special restriction is that you have to renew your license yearly for a couple of years.

Clonkex
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Posted: 30th Aug 2014 11:06
Quote: "So in Australia there is no practical driving test?"


Quote: "At 17 and once you've held your Learner's for a whole year, you can get your Provisional 1 (P1) license. You can drive at up to 90, can now drive alone, cannot tow any trailer above 250kg and can't drive cars with more than 6 cylinders or turbo/super chargers (diesels excepted). You must display big red P plates on the front and back of the car. The test is a practical driving test, where an examiner sits in the seat next to you and instructs you where to drive and what to do, taking notes. I passed (though not 100%, the score is difficult to calculate) first go."


Quote: "Whoaaa, I thought you were at least 20 years older. Don't take that badly, it just means you are superbly mature for your age."


Haha really? I definitely see that as a compliment It's just because of our modern western society that we expect teenagers to be lazy and immature; there's no reason they should be and we shouldn't be encouraging it.

Quote: "@Clonkex - now you are allowed to go whatever the speed limit is as a learner or P plater. I think the old slower speed limits were putting inexperienced drivers at Un-nessisary risk so they ditched them."


Really? Either I'm behind the times or you're not in NSW.

Quote: "In Australia you would be crucified for that sort of thing....we have permanent speed cameras all over the place"


Yeah, absolutely. Admittedly the permanent cameras always have 3 large warning signs preceding them, so you'd have to be stupid to get caught speeding past them. The mobile cameras don't have any warning, though, so you still gotta watch your speed.

Quote: "For licensing: I think it varies by state"


As does ours.

Quote: "Once both are passed, you are fully licensed."


What... so you can be fully licensed at 16?! Wow. In Australia we can't get a full license until we're 20!

Kezzla
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Posted: 30th Aug 2014 15:25
Quote: "Really? Either I'm behind the times or you're not in NSW."

I'm not from NSW, but NSW was where I experienced the point to point cameras, I had my L's in Vic and Qld, and the P plate laws are the same in both, full speed limit on L's and P's
I didn't know any state still enforced the old lower speed limits.

Quote: "Yeah, absolutely. Admittedly the permanent cameras always have 3 large warning signs preceding them, so you'd have to be stupid to get caught speeding past them. "

Yeah, "for road safety" as the signs say.
Quote: "

What... so you can be fully licensed at 16?! Wow. In Australia we can't get a full license until we're 20!"

LOL I didn't get mine 'til I was nearly 30

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Clonkex
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Posted: 30th Aug 2014 16:15 Edited at: 31st Aug 2014 03:47
Quote: "Why did I believe you to be 33?"


I have no idea!

Quote: "I'm not from NSW, but NSW was where I experienced the point to point cameras, I had my L's in Vic and Qld, and the P plate laws are the same in both, full speed limit on L's and P's
I didn't know any state still enforced the old lower speed limits."


Huh, I wasn't aware any other states had removed the speed limits. Until about 6 months ago, learners were still limited to 80km/h, but now they're allowed 90km/h. P1 is limited to 90km/h and P2 is 100km/h (so no freeway speeds).

Quote: "Yeah, "for road safety" as the signs say."


What's this? I don't remember the NSW signs saying that. These are the signs I was referring to... Can't remember the correct order of the first and last ones:






Interestingly this one was taken in Tenterfield, one of the two towns we frequently shop at. I know this street exceptionally well.

Obviously the speeds would all be the same if the photos were all taken at the same place

Kezzla
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Posted: 30th Aug 2014 16:40 Edited at: 30th Aug 2014 16:49
Quote: "Huh, I wasn't aware any other states had removed the speed limits. Until about 6 months ago, learners were still limited to 80km/h, but now they're allowed 90km/h. P1 is limited to 90km/h and P2 is 100km/h (so no freeway speeds)."

Glad I skipped NSW then...
Quote: "
What's this? I don't remember the NSW signs saying that. These are the signs I was referring to... Can't remember the correct order of the first and last ones:"


we here in QLD get only one warning, and it tends to have (in brackets) "for road safety" as apposed to "for revenue raising."

I think NSW is far more strict than QLD. we have no point to point cameras here. but if we get nailed we get nailed hard.

to be fair the warning signs and the speed cameras tend to be within one minute of each other (at the speed limit)

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 30th Aug 2014 21:31
I find it neat that Australia warns you about upcoming speed cameras. I don't think it's like that here in the US.

Seditious
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Posted: 30th Aug 2014 22:01 Edited at: 30th Aug 2014 22:11
Quote: "I find it neat that Australia warns you about upcoming speed cameras."


I think it's absolutely stupid and misses the point of having cameras in the first place. It's the same deal here - a while ago there were talks of removing the warnings but I don't think they ever really decided what they were going to do. So you can go as fast as you want (unless the police are about) and then slow down when you see a warning for a speed camera. Makes perfect sense not. I guess the reasoning is that if you are speeding and notice a camera, you will suddenly slow down which could cause an accident if anyone is close behind you.

I personally wish there were more cameras, but also cameras for tailgators. I don't know what it is with women (and some men) but they always seem to drive within ~10m of my car, even when I'm doing 90km/h. If I had to brake because of (say) an animal running out, it's a guaranteed accident. For all the strictness in the driving exams here the French really aren't the best drivers.

Anyway, the speeds here in France:

90km/h: Default speed for areas that aren't built-up (IF LICENCE >=3 YEARS).
80km/h: Default speed for areas that aren't built-up (IF LICENCE <3 YEARS).
70km/h: Semi-built-up areas, links between built-up areas etc.
50km/h: Built-up areas (ie. towns, villages centres, etc.).
30/20km/h: Car parks and pedestrian areas.

110km/h: Ringroads and 'nationales' as they are called (IF LICENCE =>3 YEARS).
100km/h: Ringroads and 'nationales' as they are called (IF LICENCE <3 YEARS).
130km/h: Motorways (largest roads, always multiple lane) (IF LICENCE >=3 YEARS).
110km/h: Motorways (largest roads, always multiple lane) (IF LICENCE <3 YEARS).

If you've been driving for less than 3 years you have to have an 'A' on the back, which I guess is to warn others that you're not very experienced. Of course there is some stigma attached and some people can't stand to be behind an 'A' driver, so they will overtake at inopportune moments and cause danger. Not sure why they don't just reduce the period to 6 months or so - if you can't drive well by then you probably shouldn't be on the road...

... As many people shouldn't.
Wolf
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Posted: 30th Aug 2014 23:38
France's streets are pretty relaxing. If you cross the border to luxemburg, you just feel like you entered a warzone because everybody just drives so civilised in france.

Unless you french drive in another country in which case you just drive like an 11 year old in GTA.



-Wolf

"When I contradict myself, I am telling the truth"
"absurdity has become necessity"

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