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FPSC Classic Product Chat / fpsc v1.19 wont work

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MillieMayz
9
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2014 19:58
I've tried downloading fpsc v1.19 several times but it keeps saying I have to download DirectX 10 or higher but I have DirectX 11 already and when I download DirectX 10 it says UAC must be off, which it is. any suggestions on what to do?
Clonkex
Forum Vice President
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Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 23rd Nov 2014 05:41
Are you using FPSC X10? As far as I know, FPSC X10 only works on Windows Vista with DirectX 10 installed.

If you're using FPSC X9 or FPSC Reloaded, I have no idea why it would say that.

xplosys
18
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Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 23rd Nov 2014 15:12
FPSC X10 works on Vista and above. I'm pretty sure that MillieMayz is using Classic and if he already has DX11 then he's probably using Windows 8.

Classic does not require DX10, only DX9. What many people don't initially realize is that when it comes to DirectX, all versions are not inclusive. In other words, DX10 is not an upgrade to DX9 and does not include all the files of DX9 or other previous versions. What you need for Classic is the latest version of DX9.0c.

Also, you say...
Quote: "I've tried downloading fpsc v1.19 several times"

When you say download, do you really mean download or do you mean "install"? You don't need to install anything to download a file, so I'm assuming you mean install.

If when trying to install a program you are asked or required to update or install another version of DirectX or .NET, it is the installer that requires those updates and not the actual file or program you are trying to install.

Make sure you are downloading the latest update from TGC (not a third party site) and that you have installed the latest version of DirectX 9.0c from a trusted link such as the one above. Don't worry that you already have a newer version, you need specific files from this version and it will not lower or otherwise effect your newer version.

If you still have a problem, post again with your system info so we can try to figure it out.

Brian.

MillieMayz
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Posted: 24th Nov 2014 03:11
Thanks for the help but now that I have DirectX 9.0c installed it lets me open fpsc and it says "FPSC-Mapeditor cannot write files to the files program area. Ensure you have UAC switched off and that you are running as an administrator user" please help
xplosys
18
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Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 24th Nov 2014 16:31
I can't help you with Windows 8 if that's what you are using. You still haven't given us your system info. In Windows 7 you turn of UAC in the Users properties from the control panel by turning the security settings down. See here. I think it's the same in Windows 8.

Alternatively you can right click on the executable in the FPSCreator folder and select "Run as Administrator". You must be the computer administrator to do so. If you're a regular user without admin privilege, you can't do it.

Brian.

MillieMayz
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Posted: 24th Nov 2014 23:03
Thanks for the help! I have it now. The thing is I have the free version, I know that I can change that by going to the game creator files and to user details but every time I try to save it says access denied. please help
Clonkex
Forum Vice President
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Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 25th Nov 2014 03:31
Quote: "FPSC X10 works on Vista and above."


It should work on Windows 7 or higher, but AFAIK it only works on Windows Vista.

Quote: "I'm pretty sure that MillieMayz is using Classic and if he already has DX11 then he's probably using Windows 8."


I assumed that too but he said it was asking for DX10 and I didn't see any reason for X9 to be asking for DX10.

Quote: "I can't help you with Windows 8 if that's what you are using. You still haven't given us your system info. In Windows 7 you turn of UAC in the Users properties from the control panel by turning the security settings down. See here. I think it's the same in Windows 8."


I strongly recommend you don't turn off UAC! Instead, use "Run as Administrator". Turning off UAC opens your computer up to viruses.

Quote: "The thing is I have the free version, I know that I can change that by going to the game creator files and to user details but every time I try to save it says access denied. please help"


Try this (if your user doesn't have Admin privileges you'll need whoever knows the Admin password standing by to type it in for you):

- Open the folder containing userdetails.ini (you said you tried editing this file already, so I assume you know where it is).
- Right-click the userdetails.ini file and click Properties.
- Select the Security tab along the top of the dialogue box.
- Click the Edit button.
- There should be a box with a list of names that comes up (something like SYSTEM, Administrator, Users). Click on Users.
- In the box below that, tick the Allow checkbox for Full Control. It should now look something like this:



- Click OK twice.

What we just did was give your Windows user full control over that file. You should now be able to modify and save the file.

xplosys
18
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Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 25th Nov 2014 04:40
Quote: "It should work on Windows 7 or higher"

Yep. Works fine.

Quote: "Turning off UAC opens your computer up to viruses."

I understand what you're saying, but IMO it protects against viruses as well as not turning on your computer. By all means, please ask me to verify any actions that I have not initiated, but when I click on a program shortcut and the OS wants to know if I want to run the program, I think it's a little too much. Does it expect me to say "No, I didn't click that shortcut."

Any way, glad you got it working and you've learned a bit about basic Windows operations as well.

Brian.

Clonkex
Forum Vice President
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Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 25th Nov 2014 06:00
Quote: "Yep. Works fine."


Oh. Huh.

Quote: "I understand what you're saying, but IMO it protects against viruses as well as not turning on your computer. By all means, please ask me to verify any actions that I have not initiated, but when I click on a program shortcut and the OS wants to know if I want to run the program, I think it's a little too much. Does it expect me to say "No, I didn't click that shortcut.""


It is definitely annoying, but as long as you leave it at the Default setting (third from the top) it actually does a lot to help with virus and malware prevention. Trust me on this, I've researched it extensively. I literally spent most of a day looking into whether UAC actually did anything a little while back.

The whole "dim your desktop" thing is extremely poorly worded. What it actually does is switch to the Windows Secure Desktop, which is a separate, genuinely secure desktop used for things like logging into a user and, as few people realise, displaying the UAC prompt. It basically means no malware can simulate a mouse-click to click Yes on the UAC prompt. M$ has done a terrible thing by not making it abundantly clear that by moving the slider down one notch from the default setting instantly allows clever malware to click the Yes button without you even seeing what happened.

Turning off UAC is akin to logging in as Root on a Unix system. You just don't do it. I think Microsoft's solution was a brilliant one. Instead of asking for your password every time (like in Unix) which is annoying AND time-consuming, they only ask you to click a button, which is just annoying.

xplosys
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Posted: 25th Nov 2014 15:23 Edited at: 25th Nov 2014 16:47
I understand the concept. You are correct that the implementation is terrible, but that's not the big problem. If all it did was annoy me I might consider the benefit, but it also stops legitimate programs - or portions thereof - from running (as we see over and over in this forum) and may times without proper explanation or notification.

If you allow me to install a program, why do you block it when I try to run it? Why don't you know that I installed and want to use the program? Why do you tell me that FPSCreator may harm my computer? My computer now has an irrational fear of anything that it doesn't understand. I've even had it tell me that Microsoft programs may harm my computer. It's even afraid of itself. Do you have any idea how much computer therapy cost these days.?



Clonkex
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Posted: 26th Nov 2014 12:09
Quote: "If you allow me to install a program, why do you block it when I try to run it? Why don't you know that I installed and want to use the program?"


For the same reason Unix systems do. Security. If you install a seemingly legitimate program, telling Windows Yes to the UAC prompt, and it secretly installs viruses as well, do you really want the viruses to be able to run freely just because you supposedly knew what you were installing?

Quote: "it also stops legitimate programs - or portions thereof - from running (as we see over and over in this forum) and may times without proper explanation or notification."


This is partially Microsoft's fault. They didn't implement sufficient security protocols in earlier versions of Windows (right up to Windows XP), and programmers took advantage of that fact because it made it easier to write their programs. Most older programs (such as FPSC) just assume they have full write access to Program Files, because for the longest time, they actually did. Since Windows Vista, programmers have been having to make changes to the way they think in order to comply with modern security protocols.

During the reign of Windows XP, any Unix programmers that tried their hand at programming for Windows would have been confused and then horrified at the lax security of Windows, which allowed any program to easily access sensitive parts of the OS. Microsoft remedied this with Windows Vista, but many old programs no longer "just worked". Since FPSC is an "old program", it assumes it has full write access to Program Files and simply doesn't work when computer says no.

Quote: "Do you have any idea how much computer therapy cost these days.?"


lol

xplosys
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Posted: 26th Nov 2014 14:20 Edited at: 26th Nov 2014 18:11
Quote: "For the same reason Unix systems do. Security. If you install a seemingly legitimate program, telling Windows Yes to the UAC prompt, and it secretly installs viruses as well, do you really want the viruses to be able to run freely just because you supposedly knew what you were installing?"


Let's look at your reasoning here. Let's say that I install a program and tell UAC to go ahead and allow the install, and it does in fact have a virus/malware/etc, hidden within. Now when I try to run that program, UAC asks me if I want to allow the program to run. I say yes and UAC allows the program to run. How does that protect me?

EDIT: OK, I've done a little more research on this and because of our conversation my upcoming software will now be UAC compliant. Seeing more of the picture I can better understand the concept and usefulness of it. I still don't care for the way it's implemented, but I don't guess I have any say, so might as well get with the program and at least be as little annoying as I can with my software.

Thanks for the input on this.

Brian.

Clonkex
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Posted: 26th Nov 2014 23:20
Quote: "I still don't care for the way it's implemented, but I don't guess I have any say, so might as well get with the program and at least be as little annoying as I can with my software."


The other option is being forced to type in your password every time, like Unix systems. UAC is about the best system out there, but it seems awful just because most Windows users are not used to having things constantly ask them for admin access.

Quote: "Thanks for the input on this."


Glad you at least understand the point of UAC I've done my bit, and whether you turn it on or not is totally up to you

snowdog
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Posted: 27th Nov 2014 13:30
Turning off UAC won't be a security risk as long as you have a decent anti-virus and firewall protection. I recommend ESET Smart Security.

"This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
Clonkex
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Posted: 27th Nov 2014 13:37
Quote: "Turning off UAC won't be a security risk as long as you have a decent anti-virus and firewall protection. I recommend ESET Smart Security."


You mean "shouldn't be". Again, it's the equivalent of logging in as Root in a Unix system. If you turn off UAC, any malware can disable your anti-virus software because it has full control. You might say, "But my AV will stop it before it runs!". Sure, it might. And for the majority of users it probably will. But what if it's a brand-new virus? It won't be detected by your AV.

Look, I'm not trying to scare people into turning on UAC (as much as it probably seems that way), I'm just trying to point out that it's a legitimate, necessary part of Windows' security, and Microsoft makes it too easy to turn off. It's an unnecessary risk to take.

BlackFox
FPSC Master
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Posted: 27th Nov 2014 21:28
Quote: "Thanks for the help but now that I have DirectX 9.0c installed it lets me open fpsc and it says "FPSC-Mapeditor cannot write files to the files program area. Ensure you have UAC switched off and that you are running as an administrator user" please help "


Like it or hate it, UAC has a function. All systems on our network have UAC on and I've never turned it off, especially for FPSC. I've had numerous conversations on these forums with different members as to "why" they say to turn off UAC. It is due to the fact that the desktop dims, thus focus is taken from FPSC and placed on the popup challenged response dialog box. FPSC does not like this, throws a hissy and crashes.

The simple fix, which was noted by others as well, is to access the Control Panel > User Accounts and edit the UAC settings. Our setting is set to "Notify me only when programs try to make changes to my computer (do not dim my desktop)". That alone fixed this "UAC" issue with FPSC (although it is something that could have been solved during FPSC's development years ago).

When you have users here using a shared computer (such as the one Mom & Dad bought), you don't want to try and tell them to turn off UAC. Chances are something will go wrong and the lad/lass will end up back on the old etch & sketch. We have a 6 yr old and a teenager with their own laptop on our network- UAC is on at all times on all systems (including mine). Although I have an extensive programming/network background, I just do not take the risk. If an app causes my system to ask for "permission", I best know where and what the app is- plain and simple.

Be glad it is only in the computers we deal with this. The following could become the daily norm.



There's no problem that can't be solved without applying a little scripting.
Clonkex
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Posted: 28th Nov 2014 03:01
Quote: "The simple fix, which was noted by others as well, is to access the Control Panel > User Accounts and edit the UAC settings. Our setting is set to "Notify me only when programs try to make changes to my computer (do not dim my desktop)". That alone fixed this "UAC" issue with FPSC (although it is something that could have been solved during FPSC's development years ago)."


Hmm.... I didn't know about that crash. That's unfortunate, because turning off desktop dimming also (as far as I'm aware) disables the use of the Secure Desktop for displaying the prompt. This (disabling Secure Desktop) has the basic effect of letting clever malware click Yes to a prompt before you can click No. In all likelihood this is a rare event, particularly if you have antivirus, but it's still a risk to be aware of.

BlackFox
FPSC Master
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Posted: 28th Nov 2014 07:55
Quote: "Hmm.... I didn't know about that crash. That's unfortunate, because turning off desktop dimming also (as far as I'm aware) disables the use of the Secure Desktop for displaying the prompt."


I still get the prompt. I have had discussions with s4real about this very thing. I know the engine pretty good inside out, considering I rewrote my version source. My point is (as I discussed with s4real) that the UAC issue happens just as I explained and does not have to be disabled. If people want to disable it, that is their choice and they take consequences if something goes wrong. Our solution works, and we run FPSC in Win 7, ran it in Vista, and in VMWare with the same settings and no issues. You have to just know what you are installing/allowing to run if you are disabling a security feature. But we still get challenge response dialogs when installing certain apps and the system detects a need for file changes.

There's no problem that can't be solved without applying a little scripting.
Clonkex
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Posted: 28th Nov 2014 13:13
Quote: "I still get the prompt."


I think you misunderstand. If you move the UAC notch down one level from the default in order to disable Desktop Dimming, you will still get the UAC prompt, but it won't be displayed within the Windows Secure Desktop. This means that, while it's probably a rare event, any malware can automatically click Yes to the UAC prompt before you click No, allowing itself to make changes to sensitive settings and files.

This is actually a security risk, since it effectively renders UAC useless. Well, not useless, but bypassable.

xplosys
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Posted: 28th Nov 2014 18:32
Quote: "Well, not useless, but bypassable."


From what little research I've done, UAC has been bypassable since it's inception. There is always someone smarter then the person who wrote the security. Still, it is effective in most cases.

If TGC had taken care of the issue while they were still developing Classic, we wouldn't have this problem. As it is now, we'll have to put up with the glitch unless one of the modders can correct it. In most modern languages, you communicate with UAC in the app.manifest:

Quote: "<requestedExecutionLevel level="requireAdministrator" uiAccess="false" />"


When you try to run the program, UAC requires Admin Privilege or it doesn't start. A much better response than starting and then crashing.

Quote: "You have to just know what you are installing/allowing to run if you are disabling a security feature."

I think that's it in a nutshell.

BlackFox
FPSC Master
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Posted: 28th Nov 2014 21:17
UAC originally was designed to protect the core files of the OS. In the case of FPSC, the default location it wants to install is... a core folder (Program Files). The reason they say to turn off UAC is because some of the files are altered when you are in the editor, and therefore without permissions it just won't work. If the challenged response comes up while in FPSC, the focus is taken from FPSC (which it hates) and therefore the crash. That's why some of us do not install in a default folder (such as FPSC wants) in order to have a bit more freedom. Some of us know the engine inside-out and understand the how's and why's, which is why I run the settings I do.

The bottom line is this. If you have installed into the default folder, then you either turn off UAC or alter the UAC settings as I have explained above. If you want an alternate solution, don't allow FPSC to install in the default folder. My systems run with the settings I mentioned, and yet to get hit with any issues. If an app requests permission to install or run, I will run according to whether it is a trusted app or not.

Quote: "If TGC had taken care of the issue while they were still developing Classic, we wouldn't have this problem. As it is now, we'll have to put up with the glitch unless one of the modders can correct it."


It was brought forward with a solution and passed over. IFAIK, the development of Classic ceased to exist when Reloaded came into the fold. I recall s4real was doing some "unofficial" updates, but this should have been (and was brought forward) back before v1.18 was finalized.

There's no problem that can't be solved without applying a little scripting.
xplosys
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Posted: 29th Nov 2014 01:06
Just to be clear, if I start FPS Creator in admin mode by right clicking the link and selecting "Run as Administrator" there is no problem. All runs well with UAC on in default settings so it's no big deal unless I forget and try to run it normally.

Quote: "If you want an alternate solution, don't allow FPSC to install in the default folder."


TBH, the only reason I'm allowing UAC to run now is that I'm writing a new app and I need it to work across the board (and ocean), not only on my computer. You know the deal. It takes an hour to write something that I can use, and a month to write something that everyone else can use.

Yes, I remember that Classic was dropped like a hot potato. Maybe you could fix it?

Allow or Deny?

Clonkex
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Posted: 29th Nov 2014 05:23
Quote: "From what little research I've done, UAC has been bypassable since it's inception. There is always someone smarter then the person who wrote the security. Still, it is effective in most cases."


As far as I know it's not actually bypassable as long as it's on the default setting, but I may be wrong.

Quote: "You have to just know what you are installing/allowing to run if you are disabling a security feature."


That definitely is one of the best forms of security

Quote: "If you have installed into the default folder, then you either turn off UAC or alter the UAC settings as I have explained above."


Or simply Run as Administrator... there should be no reason to ever turn UAC off.

Quote: "All runs well with UAC on in default settings so it's no big deal unless I forget and try to run it normally."


You can set a shortcut to always run as administrator in the Compatibility tab of its Properties. Saves having to right-click and Run as Administrator.

Seditious
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Posted: 30th Nov 2014 14:46 Edited at: 30th Nov 2014 14:47
In fact the solution is quite simple: either install to a non-protected directory (such as the user directory), or alter the directory permissions like so. It wouldn't be hard for TGC to update the installer to do this itself, but I don't think it's very high priority at the moment.

There you have it, no prompts, no need to elevate security privileges, etc.

Do not disable standard security features unless you know what you are doing.

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