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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Business and Marketing your APPS

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SpecTre
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Joined: 24th Feb 2003
Location: UK
Posted: 24th Feb 2015 18:06 Edited at: 10th Jun 2015 20:44
Hi all, I have had a good look on here and can't find anything that would be useful really, however as AppGameKit is for producing APPS in online stores like iTunes and Play Store I thought it might be helpful for this new thread to go with the others about this area of development.

What I was thinking is not so much advice on creating the APP as I think we are all getting there with that but instead advice on marketing, APP store prices, advice from people who have released APP's whether that be free, advertised or paid. Pro's and cons of paid and free, etc.
Also this could cover business areas like tax, if you have to pay it, what records you have to keep, etc for starting your own business as this is not something that is most likely thought about and would be different for each country.
Google Play Store deducts VAT etc from the cost, so again what is needed. This type of thing.

What do you think guys?

TGC could provide a wealth of useful information here, especially with the experience they have and with the Driving APP and steam areas too.

I think this would be really beneficial to the community as everyone wants to release an APP but don\'t know the pitfalls, etc.

The AppGameKit forums would then have a full package to look through.

Cheers.



Useful links and articles
*******************************************************

Nice article on marketing your game. It's full of useful links and info, including Alpha Funding on Desura and making a Kickstarter page:
http://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/articles/marketing-your-indie-game-the-single-most-important-thing-that-no-one-knows-how-to-do--gamedev-7157


Link To a really good post from Ibol regarding Approaching Infinity and a successful Kickstarter project to fund it. Very good.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=207753&b=48
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/181428952/approaching-infinity-a-space-adventure-roguelike


Links to GEKKO\'s story in another post and the newsletter. Good reads

http://www.thegamecreators.com/pages/newsletters/newsletter_issue_144.html#3
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=210452&b=41&msg=2513507#m2513507


Not AppGameKit related but a good read about an Indie game release.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/168303/defenders_quest_by_the_numbers.php?page=1


Example AppGameKit related Kickstarter projects to see examples of creating a crowd funding page.

AGK2 Kickstarter project
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tgc/app-game-kit-v2

Paint Pot - Full version funding
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1516183818/paint-pot-kids-coloring-book


Link to Napland Games blog, contains info on alternative marketS.

http://blog.naplandgames.com/


Other useful links, PixelProspector, HobbyGameDev, etc

http://www.pixelprospector.com/

http://www.hobbygamedev.com/

http://www.gamecareerguide.com/

http://www.indiedb.com/


Fiverr is a great site to cheaply get gfx, sounds and videos etc.
Also good for advertising clips for Kickstarter projects!

https://fiverr.com/


Serif video editing software - free edition.

http://www.serif.com/free-video-editing-software/


Powtoon, great of presentations and free!

http://www.powtoon.com/


Envato has lots of resources at cheap prices.

http://market.envato.com/


Deviant Art has a section to showcase game design and can be used to advertise your game to download.

http://polarauled.deviantart.com/art/Avatar-Maker-Chibi-Edition-527827017
http://polarauled.deviantart.com/art/Avatar-Maker-Pirates-Edition-525450374


List of App stores to publish your games/apps
******************************************************

Apple App Store - https://developer.apple.com/devcenter/ios/index.action

Google Play - https://play.google.com/apps/publish/

Amazon - https://developer.amazon.com/public/support/submitting-your-app/tech-docs/submitting-your-app

If you are going to be selling Apps on the amazon store, you need to fill in a tax interview form. Don't let this put you off as it is quite simple.
When you get to the sections for the following this might help:

IBAN - International bank account number - (Found on your bank statement)
BAC - Bank reference number found on a statement or online for the bank, a bit like a sort code.
TIN - Tax identification number - (UK this is your national insurance number)

Simple!


Flexindie - http://flexindie.com

SlideMe - http://slideme.org/

Vodafone - https://developer.vodafone.com/publish/


Let me know any others you have tried, think would be of use and want in this list.



List of sites to help with things needed running a business
*******************************************************

UK:
Business Finance - https://www.gov.uk/business-finance-explained

Self Assessment Tax Returns - https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns/overview

Making Tax Easier PDF - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/making-tax-easier

Tax Relief - http://www.manapool.co.uk/financial-aid-for-indie-developers-in-uk-games-industry/


Again let me know any others you have think would be of use and want in this list. I will add a section for other countries.




*******************************************************
LASTLY LETS ALL NOT FORGET TO CHECK THE AppGameKit GALLERY AND
SHOWCASE POSTS FOR APPS AND GAMES WHICH HAVE BEEN RELEASED.
WE CAN ALL HELP EACH OTHER BY DOWNLOADING AND HELPING WITH
REVIEWS ETC.

*******************************************************

The Amiga and Amos were great!
My website LEAP - Download Paint Pot here!
Polaraul
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 18:30
I think that is a great idea. Creating an app with AppGameKit is just the tip of the iceberg, the work really begins when you have to get people to download it!
SpecTre
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 20:17
Quote: "I think that is a great idea. Creating an app with AppGameKit is just the tip of the iceberg, the work really begins when you have to get people to download it!"


Yes that's what I was thinking, nothing to do with creating the APP or packing it up but once that is done, from there on wards

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
xGEKKOx
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 10:43
Read some of my old posts, you will find them very useful

Markus
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 11:29
hmm,
google provide much information for a merchant account to read.
each country have different rules or ways to start a small company.
about starting your own business, it begins in a public office building for register.
but a new thread doesn't bother me.

AGK 108 (B)19 + AppGameKit V2 Alpha .. : Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit : AMD Radeon R7 265 : Mac mini OS X 10.10 (Yosemite)
JanMeier
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 11:46 Edited at: 27th Feb 2015 08:28
That's an interesting idea, I think, but you should talk to the forums moderators/owners about new branches. From my side - I will support you, as I also [http://www.intellectsoft.net/resources/mobile-development/top-reasons-secure-applications-byod/]enterprise app development company[/href] and Android and I'd be glad to share my experience.
SpecTre
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 13:32
Quote: "Read some of my old posts, you will find them very useful "


Will do just that, cheers.


Quote: "google provide much information for a merchant account to read."


Yes that's true but there is sometimes too much information and a lot related to on line business in stead of specific to APP stores.
This could be specific to AGK.

Quote: "but a new thread doesn't bother me."


Just think it would make the AppGameKit experience complete as a whole package with everything in one place. Especially with posts from the TGC team themselves with the wealth of experience with the successful Driving APP.

What do you think TGC team. Would one of you be able to start it off with a view from the Driving APP?
This APP is the most successful AppGameKit APP when all said and done

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
Polaraul
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 13:56
I think notes on marketing would be helpful. Where do people advertise their apps, how do you build a community around your app, how do people get their apps noticed etc.
Crazy Programmer
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 16:57
Quote: "I think notes on marketing would be helpful. Where do people advertise their apps, how do you build a community around your app, how do people get their apps noticed etc. "


1. I have had a few ideas...There are always Game Dev Forums / Gamming Chat forums out there that would love to see your new app. You can show case them there. Not all forums are like TGC's and are only allowed to showcase products created with there software.

2. You can also use facebook and create adds.(It costs money) but advertising on Facebook is just like putting out a commercial on the TV.(But Cheaper) Everyone uses facebook. Facebook will let you set the life of your add. Example your max budget is $100 you want to spend $5 a day. Your add life is 20 days.

3. Reaching out to your friends on facebook.(Is free) If you take the link provided by Google Player(Example-https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.CrazyProgrammerProductions.my_JellyFishSwim) and post that on your wall for facebook. It will automatically bring up info on your app. Share to all your facebook friends the link and automatically provide pictures that you have provided the Google Play Store. ( This option is free but only reaches out to your friends on Facebook) If your friends are nice they could share it and pass it on to there friends. (The best case scenario is people love it and it never stops bouncing around peoples walls and reaches thousands.)
Sph!nx
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Posted: 26th Feb 2015 15:26
Yeah, great idea! Marketing and such is something I have little to no experience in, so this would be good.

Regards Sph!nx
SpecTre
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Posted: 26th Feb 2015 15:37
Quote: "but you should talk to the forums moderators/owners about new branches."


Hoping this creates some interest and the TGC team can start one off with some details regarding the Driving APP for example.

Quote: "Marketing and such is something I have little to no experience in"


I think this is probably the case for most people. It seems creating an APP and sticking it on Google is now quite simple but then what happens after for example if selling, will we get a knock on the door from the tax man

I just think this would make the forum/site a really good rounded package giving advice with AppGameKit from start to the very end.

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 27th Feb 2015 05:33
Quote: "Creating an app with AppGameKit is just the tip of the iceberg, the work really begins when you have to get people to download it! "

That statement could make an atheist say amen!

Quote: "The best case scenario is people love it and it never stops bouncing around peoples walls and reaches thousands."

Jellyfish Dive!

Sharing tips for marketing our apps would be beneficial for all, and having that stuff in one place would be convenient, so my thumb is up.


Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
paulrobson
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Posted: 27th Feb 2015 20:08
Quote: "Hoping this creates some interest and the TGC team can start one off with some details regarding the Driving APP for example."


That's the other way of doing it - a niche that is sparsely populated.
SpecTre
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Posted: 27th Feb 2015 20:23
Quote: "That's the other way of doing it - a niche that is sparsely populated."


That's the real key

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
Crazy Programmer
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Posted: 1st Mar 2015 22:01
Im hoping this really takes off so we can get some ideas bouncing around. Im not expecting some heavily detailed 10 page long descriptions. Just some simple explanations on what has worked for you.

http://crazyprogrammerproductions.webs.com/
SpecTre
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 00:16
Well been working hard trying to promote my app and gain some interest!

Firstly I have created a twitter account for it, wasn't easy as never used it before lol. As I said it is @leapappsuk and I think we should all follow each other and retweet all our app tweets.
Also thanks to Crazy Programmer I seem to have got the hang of hash tag to get interest.
It seems if you use the right ones and then start retweeting and following other indie devs, they do the same for you. Like I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine sort of thing.
Some good ones to use are :

#slothdev
#indiegamedev
#gamedev
#indiedev

Then look at their posts and after following them and other devs you like in there, start retweeting some of their posts, then all of a sudden you find people following you and retweeting your post.
So what use is this, well if some retweets your post and they have say 20,000 followers then they all can see your post!!

Secondly I created a Facebook page just for the Leap apps and Paint Pot.
This is not as fast as twitter to get noticed but then if you tweet the Facebook page then people can stop by and like your page. I put screen shots and info on how to download the app on there. Make it look professional like any company would.

Here it is:
https://www.facebook.com/leapappsuk


I was going to also do a Tumblr page but I think I will wait because I think that might be a bit more complicated lol.


Any other tips and help then let's get them on here and working as a team Maybe when we have got enough ideas together we can edit the top of the post with them all in order and get a new thread or something?

Any ideas on how to get people downloading and rating your app if we do the same for other people?

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
Crazy Programmer
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 00:51 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2015 00:52
I am on the same track as Paul its a constant Up-Hill battle.
I have made a twitter account and started tweeting got a few followers and a few reviews for my app on google play that I think came from tweets - @JellyFishDive

Made a facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/CProgrammerP

I would have to agree with Paul Facebook is going to be a slow going process unless you pay to promote your page.

Im going to stay away from Tumblr for now being Facebook and Twitter are keeping me busy enough.

Like Paul said using Twitter those #tags used right seem to be making the world of difference.

http://crazyprogrammerproductions.webs.com/
SpecTre
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 01:18
Quote: "@JellyFishDive"


Quote: "https://www.facebook.com/CProgrammerP"


Both liked and twitted, if that's the right word!

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
SpecTre
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Posted: 4th Mar 2015 03:45 Edited at: 4th Mar 2015 04:06
Well guys, I could do with some help here.

For the last 2 days I have done no coding, drawing or going through the forums!
What I have done is try and stir some interest for downloads and reviews of my free first app which I have been working hard on for the last couple of months.

Well what have I learnt here for the business and marketing post???

IT IS REALLY HARD TO GET ANYONE TO HELP

REALLY HARD!!

Twitter follows @leapappsuk have exceeded 500
Facebook page has around 15 LIKES
and downloads??

Around 12 on Google Play and 3 on Amazon!
That's it!

and that is including a few guys off here.

So if this is not proof that we need help on this post/thread then I don't know what is, my head is mashed from the constant re-tweets to get people to notice and follow and my ear is bashed from the wife telling me to turn the beeping off on my phone!

I know I am not in on this myself as others have been really working hard over the last couple of days too with this and we have been tweeting and retweeting like mad but to the same end - NOT MUCH!

Any help on business and marketing is vital on here, there is no point in spending months with no sleep etc on an app if it is not going to even get a look in because you need to get beyond the first 100 for normal people browsing to find it.

What can we do to help each other???

I know we have a showcase thread, however a lot of posts are WIP, including one of mine and they are very lengthy posts of where the app is during development and it is not really known if the app has been released to a store or not before reading around 3 to 4 pages.

I will start off with the details for my app, however if you put your app download links in this post and if it is free, then I will download and review, retweet any tweet and like your facebook page if you could do the same for me please.
If the app is paid then you can still review on Amazon without purchase and google +d on the Google Store which I will do also.

I got chatting to a really nice lady indie dev on twitter and she did exactly this for me, liked the facebook page, followed on twitter and retweeted and also downloaded and gave a good review on the app. I did the same for her and she had nothing to do with AppGameKit and I thought well this AppGameKit community has hundreds of members, surely we can all help each other getting our apps noticed.

What do you think?

Is this post at least worth a sticky if not it's own thread?

and it's not just downloads, help with starting an app business is also vital. The ins and outs of the paperwork etc. If you have been there and done it then please can we have a bit of advice if you have a spare minute or 2.


Well here goes, details for my APP:

Website:
http://leap.my-free.website/
Google Store:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.leap.paintpotlite_app
Amazon Store:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Leap-Paint-Pot-Lite/dp/B00U2O2OAI
Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/leapappsuk
Twitter:
@leapappsuk

By the way when I download and review your app look for Paul Harthen on the review not spectrepaul

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
Crazy Programmer
AGK Developer
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Location: Lost in AGK
Posted: 4th Mar 2015 04:01 Edited at: 4th Mar 2015 04:10
*******************************************************
Jellyfish Dive!

Website:
http://crazyprogrammerproductions.webs.com/
Google Store:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.CrazyProgrammerProductions.my_JellyFishSwim
Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/CProgrammerP
Twitter:
@JellyFishDive
*******************************************************

I hit 560 followers on twitter today over the past 2 or 3 days of tweeting. Getting noticed is very tough and a slow going process. Any advice on promoting an app will be welcomed with open arms. Looking for advice from people who have been there and done it.
As we all know its not just going to one day go from 0 - 1m downloads, but pointing us in the right direction in the early stages that we are will be a huge relief.

I have googled and googled and googled some more. Im googled out I hope the community can share some insight.

Same as Paul said, if you provide the info I will follow you on twitter and help with retweets and like your facebook page.

http://crazyprogrammerproductions.webs.com/
Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
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Posted: 4th Mar 2015 05:09 Edited at: 4th Mar 2015 05:12
It sounds like you need a break... (see attachment)
The sound is not that great on cell phones, so turn the sound up first if playing on a phone.


Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1

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Crazy Programmer
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Posted: 4th Mar 2015 14:41
HAHA nice one Conjured...You had me all excited there for a second

http://crazyprogrammerproductions.webs.com/
SpecTre
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Posted: 4th Mar 2015 14:56
Quote: "It sounds like you need a break... (see attachment)"


Nice one Conjured Made me laugh.

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
SpecTre
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Posted: 5th Mar 2015 20:44
Nobody wanting to help or be helped??

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
SpecTre
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Posted: 6th Mar 2015 02:36
Please close this post as it seems only a few of us are bothered. Not worth further effort. Will use Google.

Thanks

Programming - AMOS on the AMIGA! / DBPro / Python / A bit of C C++ / now also AGK2! - Graphics - Deluxe Paint on the Amiga / Paintshop Pro / Photoshop / Lightroom / Grafx2
Previously worked for Prisma Software producing childrens educational software on the Amiga - Titles - Pepe's Garden - Paint Pot / Kids Academy range - Paint Pot II / Shopping Basket / Which Where What? / Blobs / Alvin's Puzzles
SpecTre
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Posted: 19th Mar 2015 15:39 Edited at: 19th Mar 2015 15:44
Well got a bit fed up with this post a bit ago as there wasn't really much interest but not much going on on the actual forum too, so now there seems to be a bit more activity and projects/WIP in the showcase section then might give this post another try.

So what has happened since the start, regarding downloads for my app they are so far on 17/03/15 since uploading on 27/02/15:

Amazon - 61
Google - 42

Total - 103 [Broke the 100 mark!]

Only one review on Amazon and 10 on Google though.

What was interesting is that Amazon has more downloads which I wasn't expecting, however the app is easier to find on the Amazon store so don't dismiss Amazon as will only help promote your apps.

Twitter is quite good for promoting the apps as when I post a tweet regarding this the downloads increase, so twitter is good.
It is also good to have a Youtube clip of your app working to put on the tweet as it gives more impact when looking through the hash tags.

I have been working hard on twitter and now have around 850 followers which not only consist of indie devs but also teachers, education apps and parents etc. My app is an educational app when all said and done but this also means a wide user base. The ratio is quite good too with around 900 following by myself so plenty of scope there to follow others if you want to follow me and I can retweet your posts for your apps also. I have already started to do this for some of you I can find so it would be nice if you could do the same.
@leapappsuk

The same goes for Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/leapappsuk

If you want your app to be put on the top of the post then put the details on in the same format and I will try to add them there so we can all help each other with dowloading, reviewing and tweeting about each others apps. If it's there you know people are wanting your help. This really needs doing I think as it all helps to promote your app and gets you higher up the Google Play rank chart.
At the end of the day if we can't all help each other out to get higher up then who else can we start with to get the ball rolling.

Don't forget the title of this post is Business and Marketing APPS thread?? maybe a MOD can change the title to Business and Marketing your APPS as this would suite the thread better.

I think this post should forget about getting it's own thread on the forums but maybe if people get interested and submit help then it could go sticky and be really usefull to everyone.

So bearing in mind the new title of the thread if the MOD's could change it, any help regarding this area would be really usefull.
How to market your app, which sites to use, who are good and bad etc.
Also money matters, starting up a business and the boring stuff like VAT and TAX etc.

I still think if someone from the TGC team could spare half an hour writing something regarding the experience of the Driving APP for instance, this could be helpful as at the end of the day, you have been there, done it and got the badge!

Thanks and I look forward to seeing if we can make something of this post so we can help each other.
TGC have the best, most helpful and friendliest community regarding coding so lets get together and help with the stuff that matters after the app has been produced.

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
SpecTre
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Posted: 19th Mar 2015 17:15
Added GEKKO's story posts to the top of the thread

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
SpecTre
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Posted: 19th Mar 2015 17:35
Cheers BatVink for changing the title of the post.

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
SpecTre
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Posted: 21st Mar 2015 01:23
I was thinking about this again and I was wondering if anyone has or has been thinking of crowd funding other than TGC using sites like Kickstarter?

I have looked into it and it seems incredibly easy to set up to promote your app and was surprised to see so many rubbish unprofessional projects on there getting bids that surely if you spent a bit of time with it a good effort could be made.

Of course the hardest thing will be obtaining 100% of you goal in 30 days but unless you have a go well you will never know.

I was thinking of this as everyone seems to be publishing on Google Store mainly due to ease but a large part down to cost and equipment.
Well in funding an app costs for Mac equipment and yearly App Store fees could be considered to then release on Apples store.

What is everyone's view on this aspect of marketing??

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
Funnell7
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Posted: 21st Mar 2015 02:47
Quote: "was wondering if anyone has or has been thinking of crowd funding"


There was one chap who had a successful kickstarter campaign... I'll see if I can dig it out... Yep, here it is, this may be an interesting read for you

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=207753&b=48

Using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
Polaraul
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Posted: 21st Mar 2015 03:31 Edited at: 21st Mar 2015 03:50
If only AGK2 could publish to HTML5 and Flash Deviantart, Kongregate and Newgrounds have a massive audience and would make great venues to either publish to, or teaser apps. An interesting article on this can be read over at Gamasutra

xGEKKOx
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Posted: 21st Mar 2015 04:15 Edited at: 21st Mar 2015 04:16
The hardest part is to open a company in US.
This is needed for KickStart

JimHawkins
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Posted: 21st Mar 2015 09:12
Not true. Here are the UK rules:

You are 18 years of age or older*
You are a permanent resident in the UK either creating a project in your own name or on behalf of a legal entity with a Companies House number.
You have a bank account, UK address, UK and goverment-issued ID (driver's license or passport).
You have a major credit or debit card

<<It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.>> Dijkstra
SpecTre
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Posted: 21st Mar 2015 12:25
Nice posts guys, regarding the Kickstarter US issue, you are right Jim I have looked and you can do this in most countries and all you need is the international bank account number for your normal bank account. This is quite easily found on internet banking site or by ringing the bank itself so that is not an issue.

The 2 posts seem very good reads. I will read them more in depth and will add them to the top of the post later including the kickstarter for the game as it is an excellent example of how to do one.
I am not surprised it got funded as it looks very professional and the game looks excellent.

I would be quite happy doing one with a modest fee to get equipment to release my app on the App Store.

I will come back to this later when get chance to read posts proper as I am using my phone now.

Thanks guys, let's keep this post going as it all helps for the business and marketing

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
Battoad
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Posted: 21st Mar 2015 12:46
The little I feel I have learned since publishing my 1st app in google play is as follows;

1) Make sure you have a unique name for your app and if your title includes more than one word, try to keep each word as unique as possible. I made the mistake of calling my app "Square" but 100's of other apps either are called the same or include the word "square" somewhere in their title. Enter your proposed new app title, before giving your app a final title, in to the google play app search box and see how much competition you can expect.

2) Google uses complicated algorithms to place your app within its listings. Unfortunately for most of us the popular apps are clearly in top position and new apps are immediately placed at the wrong end of their list making it difficult for people to find. Similar to google search, no body goes down several pages to pick something.

3) Actions that help your app move up the list.
a) Downloads, but this is where it becomes complicated. If people download and delete, i.e. just trying to push the download number up, really acts as a negative.
b) Downloads without review also acts as a negative.

So you app needs to be interesting and good enough for people to keep on their phones/tablets and they need to review it.

Sorry if this is all obvious to you, but its something I have picked up on the way. I don't have an instant solution yet, or even if there is one, but I will try to let you know of any findings along my journey.

SpecTre
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Posted: 21st Mar 2015 13:26
@Juney this is all great, any information or help that we can all use is good.

Quote: "3) Actions that help your app move up the list.
a) Downloads, but this is where it becomes complicated. If people download and delete, i.e. just trying to push the download number up, really acts as a negative.
b) Downloads without review also acts as a negative."


Wasn't aware of the download and delete so that's noted.
I would be quite happy to keep any app on my device for a few days but I will always put a good review on too if anybody wants help with an app on here.

As I mentioned in a post previously if anyone wants help with an app then put it here in the format as the others and I will put it at the top of the post
If you then see any apps at the top you instantly know that person wants help with downloads and reviews etc.

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
xGEKKOx
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Posted: 21st Mar 2015 16:41
I tried to start a KickStart 2 months ago for a soccer game but it wasn't possible.
They want the US ID.
Maybe you are talking about another site not KickStarter or maybe they changed the rules.

3d point in space
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Posted: 21st Mar 2015 17:24 Edited at: 21st Mar 2015 18:04
I have the same fillings i need tp change the title of my next app
Distant lands is a misleading title for a game that tells local weather. I think tthat having someone market every app made with agk full time would be great and i wouldnt mind paying such person to do so. I currently flip houses because no one downloads my apps. Typed on phone. If everyone pitched in and payed a advertiser a nominal fee i bet more of us would have more downloads. I also am busy rewriting a website for my masters thesis. I think that there are a lot of people here that are to busy to market there own apps.

If every one pitched in like 5 to 10 dollars a month to hire someone on the forums to advertise the apps that where made with agk, but you would need a lot of people to sign up for this service. TGC could provide someone to look though all the apps in the showcase and market them. I wouldn't mind paying a monthly fee for a full time advertiser that worked at TGC.

This said person can also give you advise on choosing a google play screen name, looks at titles of the apps and tries to help people. This would be a full time job for the said person, and I would think it would be beneficial to every one, if TGC provided this service to those that are interested. If we pay a monthly fee TGC could also provide a website dedicated to working apps in the showcase.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
SpecTre
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Posted: 21st Mar 2015 18:02
Quote: "If everyone pitched in and payed a advertiser a nominal fee i bet more of us would have more downloads."


I think all we need to do to start off is all work together as a community and download each others apps for a start and retweet everyone's twitters etc.
Just think how many people are on these forums. My Paint Pot WIP thread has over 1900 views! But not many seem to want to get involved with this side of development.
I am not sure why and I know some people only do this for fun but I think help with coding is fine, you put a post on here and lots of people help no problem. You put a post about download app and review and people think I don't have time for that but to be honest it takes half the time to do lol.

If you want help with your app for downloads then look at mine and crazy programmers edited at the top and post your details here and I will add to the top and download and review. I can only speak for myself but if we all start looking at the top of this post and start helping with ones in there then it will certainly help!

For myself it is a bit of a hobby but I would like to do more with it and expand with more and better apps. I am married with 2 kids and a job like most people, coding in the late hours when I can as never have enough time but to me this is quite an important part and why I bought AppGameKit in the first place, to release on Android but I would also like to release apps on the App Store, however I feel AppGameKit has to pay for itself in order to do this and if it doesn't work then so be it but at least I can say I had a good crack at it.

Quote: "
I tried to start a KickStart 2 months ago for a soccer game but it wasn't possible.
They want the US ID."


Nope, it is definitely Kickstarter as I had a look last night and started filling one out to see how it worked. I got to the part of the account and it is just an international version of your account number that is needed. Its the same as Amazon actually.
Maybe its different in Italy but I can't see it. Check it again Gekko you may be able to do it now

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
3d point in space
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Posted: 21st Mar 2015 18:08 Edited at: 21st Mar 2015 18:09
so spectrepual I would think that you are pretty close to the person that TGC needs to hire full time to advertise every ones apps, but are you a professional advertiser that people are willing to pay for such service.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
SpecTre
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Posted: 21st Mar 2015 18:20
Quote: "so spectrepual I would think that you are pretty close to the person that TGC needs to hire full time to advertise every ones apps, but you are you a professional advertiser that people are willing to pay for such service."



Haha. Nope and nope, I am just passionate about my apps and this area of it and believe we can all help each other out because I am surely not the only one who feels like this. Well I know I am not from other posts on here.

TGC will not hire someone to advertise everyone else's apps. There is not a post on here giving any input from there experience regarding say the driving app which I have tried to get some info off them if you see above

So let's help each other

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
3d point in space
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Posted: 21st Mar 2015 19:59
No I am not hurting for money flipping houses and all. I also get paid to go to graduate school so I treat this as a hobby really. This current house I think I earn around 14k in 4 months. I do two houses this summer maybe. If I have enough motivation to do so. I see Monday if I won the bid for this current house. If I am successful at flipping houses I might help people on these forums more.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
xGEKKOx
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Posted: 21st Mar 2015 20:02
Thx spectre i will give a look!!

SpecTre
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Posted: 21st Mar 2015 20:24
I have attached the link to the Ibol post and kickstarter project for it to the top of the post. The kickstarter project is a great example how to do it!

My app is no where near as good though lol

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
JimHawkins
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Posted: 21st Mar 2015 20:27
@GEKKO - It's because you're in Italy. Italy is not covered by the T&Cs.

<<It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.>> Dijkstra
SpecTre
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Posted: 21st Mar 2015 20:49
@Gekko hey you want to send them an email and see whats the problem

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
Battoad
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2015 12:23
I have thought of an obscure method that may help listing position but may cost some a little cash.

It's my belief that googles algorithm to calculate your listing position comprises a minimum of downloads, apps remaining on a device after download, reviews, download location and number of other apps that person has downloaded.

If you log into the google play developers console for your app, you can see figures for total downloads and no. of apps still on devices.
Location is important since 100 downloads from a small village in the Highlands, which would be mainly friends and family, may be less positive than 100 downloads from all around the world which are probably considered to be more genuine. Fortunately AppGameKit forum supports the latter.

A person who has downloaded many apps provides more weight to a kept download than someone who has only downloaded a few, since google consider his views more relevant than the other person, i.e. he knows a good app when he sees one.

So, a possible solution although radical and not guaranteed, - we each use an older android phone/tablet 2.3.1 onwards, or purchase a cheap one specifically for this use, and use it to download, review and keep AppGameKit released android apps on it. This way we will meet a lot of google requirements to move up the listings.

Shoot me after you have thought about it a little, no solution will be easy.

Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2015 15:17 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2015 17:19
Quote: "So, a possible solution although radical and not guaranteed..."

Count me out for any attempt to manipulate or under mind the Google Search Results Formula.
Not only is it unethical, but it is a violation of their rules that can result in being banned from their store.
Personally, I would rather be at the bottom of the list than not on it at all.
I do not see this as a permanent solution anyway, as the formula could (and likely will) change frequently to counter such attempts.
I think the focus of relying on their search facility is maybe not the best approach anyway.
Yes, the search engines are important, but more so on their regular search engine than the one in the store.
The store's search engine (In My Opinion) isn't worth a dam with a hole in it.
If I am searching a game title, then I expect title matches to appear first, and not some game with a different name with a higher rating.
I am looking for that game title you dippwits, not games like it with a better rating.
The only reason I use that retarded search engine is to laugh at how low they place the games that should appear at the top.
Not putting the exact title matches first in the list is just idiotic. (to put it in a nice way)
Yeah, it is best for their bottom line since the app paid them to be there, but it frustrates SOME of your users. (some might be most if they did a survey)

Here is my suggestion... Public awareness through things like press releases, and referrals.
Getting a direct link to the app from a friend would be more promising to me than search engine results IMO.
The friend has already played it, so it is not pot luck on what it will be like any of the unknown apps high on the search lists.
I don't have to worry about finding the right one in a list of a hundred using similar names, because my friend provided the link (which we make easy for the friend to do).
That is why I think getting the Facebook stuff running right again is important, but Facebook doesn't play nice with their updates.
Users can still go to Facebook though, and post about it if they really like it.
If FACEBOOK integration is not cutting it, then maybe a website for Social Gaming, not social networking in general, could be a success.
It is hard to let people vote the best apps up because it is easy to manipulate such systems, so a game rating panel of judges might work better.
The public may grow to like this more than relying on manipulated systems too, once they see the results are better.

Offering incentives for referrals may work, but then you lose the legitimacy of the referral as they are doing it to get the reward and not because the game is good.
So, the friends might not try referrals from friends who have sent them a crap link before.

There is no easy or best way to approach this, which leaves us to examine what has worked for the top selling apps.
If they depended on expensive advertising campaign or bribes to get their apps as 'editor's choice', then count me out again because I am too poor to pay attention.

Bottom Line is... if the game is kick butt, then people will tell their friends without a reward to do so, and you will get the word out.
Our easiest chance for success is to convince Paul that keeping up to date with Facebook integration is our best way (and probably the only effective way) to advertise our indie games on a bubble gum budget.

I think a good co-op multiplayer game would do the trick, as they would tell their friends about it just to play together.

Once one of us (or a team) makes an exceptional game title that does get a buttload of users, then the world will know we are here.
Until then, I am afraid we all may be stuck on the lower rungs of the search result ladders.


Quote: "A person who has downloaded many apps provides more weight to a kept download than someone who has only downloaded a few, since google consider his views more relevant than the other person, i.e. he knows a good app when he sees one."

Juney, you know the most about that Google formula, so thanks for sharing.
I notice the FLAG - Thumbs UP - Thumbs DOWN buttons next to ratings too.
I am sure the people with lots of spam flags probably do not count at all when leaving their rating.
The thumbs being the weights for the ratings value or maybe the weight of the user's ratings as well.
So, in time the ones with the most downloads would be weighted heaviest because of the weights and not necessarily because of the number of downloads.

Quote: "So let's help each other"

Eureka!
But, unfortunately that has not been the case so far.
With the Gallery broken (maybe abandoned?) a lot of apps have faded away in the pages of forum posts
I just scrolled through a few pages of the Showcase and found locked [Released] threads on page 3 of 14!
Some had a decent number of downloads at Google, but they have very few ratings.

We do need to form an 'indie developers union' where members can support each other, but they need to be committed. (to the cause, not in an institution) (okay, maybe both in some cases)
The number of games released so far with AppGameKit is impressive, but you have to read the whole showcase forum to find them.
A group effort for public awareness would benefit all who participate.

On a side note about helping each other...
Are any of you guys on the list of indie game developers at Wikipedia???
I am for the time being, but you may notice I have no page for my business name or my game title.
Why you ask (okay so you didn't ask, but I want to tell you anyway), because Wiki considers creating an article about your own company or product as self promotion or advertising, which they do not allow.
They consider this a conflict of interest, and find it difficult for the owner/creator to create the article without making it sound biased or like an ad.
So, we really do need to scratch each others backs if we want to succeed as indies, because flying solo doesn't cut it anymore.
While being an indie offers artistic freedoms, it has some baggage as well.


Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
SpecTre
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2015 18:03
@CE great post

I am really glad people are starting to get interested in this area.
I am going to try the Kickstarter for the hell of it and see what happens!

Quote: "With the Gallery broken (maybe abandoned?)"


It is working again now. I sent an email to TGC about it and although they said it was fine, it suddenly started working

Quote: "Eureka!"


and AHMEN!!! lol

Agree with everything you wrote and well put

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2015 00:56
Quote: "I am going to try the Kickstarter for the hell of it and see what happens!"

I want to do a Kickstarter campaign too, but having to do that video showing what you look like is what has held me back.
The video would have to be rated R for the Horror factor.
Seriously though, I was thinking of maybe $4k Android campaign with a $10k OUYA Stretch Goal, or something.
I just hate the idea of it failing or looking stupid on the video.
But if I can get my WIP to the point of a decent trailer, then maybe I'll go for it.

Quote: "It is working again now. I sent an email to TGC about it and although they said it was fine, it suddenly started working "

Great News!


Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1

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