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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Rest in peace DBPro 2002 - 2015 :(

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SamKM
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Posted: 12th Jun 2015 15:45 Edited at: 12th Jun 2015 15:48
Just saw this in the latest Game Guru dev blog where Lee's talking about plans for increasing performance:
Quote: "My current view is that we can move the entire engine from DBP to C++"

Oh well, might have it wrong, but it pretty much sounds sounds like a death sentence for the future of DBPro
I honestly don't blame Lee for wanting to move away from it, writing the engine in pure C++ is probably faster now than trying to basically re-write DBPro for more speed - it's just sad since it's still so awesome, and I think we were all quietly hoping that since GG was being written in it, it was gonna survive and keep evolving in some way
Oh well, good luck to them with C++!

The code never bothered me anyway...
Van B
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Posted: 12th Jun 2015 16:21
Lee is probably using DBPro more like a scripting system these days anyway - the mythical DBPro+++ that is being used might just be too butchered now to do much more with.

Anyway, it's good news for GG users - one area that C++ will stomp all over DBPro is scripting, Lee can get rid of a whole abstraction layer and it will bring a lot to the performance and if Lee wants, a helluva lot more power too.

As for DBPro - well I'm still using it, lots of people are - languages like DBPro don't die because they stop being updated, they die when people stop using them. In 10 years time people will be using DBPro to make retro PC games. Platforms and languages never die, there is always someone out there using something... my last 2 games are for the ZX Spectrum which is over 30 years old, and I got as much enjoyment and appreciation out of making those as I have for any modern platform... actually more so if I'm being honest.
Times are changing, people expect indie games to be made by teams of professionals these days using Unity or whatever - the true hobbyist coder is a dying breed.

Kuper
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Playing: Planescape:Torment
Posted: 12th Jun 2015 17:39 Edited at: 12th Jun 2015 17:40
Terrible news!
Stil it must be happened one day- DBPro have a lot of disadvantages in speed, multi-thread support and so on which are critical when you start so complicated project like GameGuru.
I think that people who use DBPro now because of its simple language have to find new replacement for it.There is thread for using DBPro libraries on FreeBasic but I don't get any extra
fps when test them.It is likely because of core DBPro algorithms which are single-threaded and slow.So imho that will be great to find similiar language with shader support and easy syntax
which will be enough for porting Evolved's Advanced lighting at least.

wattywatts
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Posted: 12th Jun 2015 17:58
Quote: "Platforms and languages never die, there is always someone out there using something"

Heck, I know people who still use Qbasic! It was actually used in my intro to programming course.

I'm still using DB and I don't think any of us realistically expected it to get officially updated anyway, although I'm sure we were all hoping for it.
Nomad Soul
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Posted: 13th Jun 2015 00:16
DBPro is open source now. Its up to the community if it continues to evolve or not. This is the best possible thing to happen for DBPro so I would suggest its very far from being a death sentence.

https://code.google.com/p/darkbasicpro/

Kuper
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Posted: 13th Jun 2015 04:06
I've heard that there is not a final build there.And if anyone have enough power to understand and rewrite Lee's code he is probably is Harry Houdini or someone greater

Green Gandalf
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Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 13th Jun 2015 12:40
Quote: "And if anyone have enough power to understand and rewrite Lee's code he is probably is Harry Houdini or someone greater"


Indeed - and I'm sure that Lee would have done it himself if it was a straightforward task.



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Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 13th Jun 2015 18:56 Edited at: 13th Jun 2015 18:57
I have gotten very familiar with the DBPro source code from making a milkshape file importer to
creating a new physics engine for DBPro. DBPro is not as bugged or defective as people think.
Many times I came across what I thought was a bug in DBPro source but after careful research
I found that DBPro is doing it correctly according to DirectX 9.0c documentation.
I think a lot of problems that are perceived are misinformation. For instance I seen a lot of post over the years
about how slow DBPro is. People run DBPro on a poor hardware and expect good results. You cannot
blame DBPro for this. If DBPro has a death sentence it is not coming from Lee but from the DBPro community.
I have been developing the best Physics plugin DBPro has ever seen. It has features never before seen in DBPro.
There is Ragdoll, Automatic Destruction, Automatic collision shape calculation, the best CSG ever.
I have had very little interest from the community and I am considering canceling the project.
The ragdoll I created is used in GG(check the credits). On that note GG may also be dead since Lee does not seem interested
in adding anymore physics features which I have offered him. If he were to rewrite what he has now in C++ Game Guru will be in limbo for
another year and I fear would not survive on steam as a finished project. If he added the destruction physics I have developed he might get
more sales. Here is a video of what could have been in DBPro and Game Guru.



WindowsXP SP3,Vista,Windows 7 SP1, DBpro v7.7RC7
Stab In The Dark Editor
The coffee is lovely dark and deep,and I have code to write before I sleep.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 13th Jun 2015 19:22
Quote: "DBPro is not as bugged or defective as people think."


Agreed.



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seppgirty
FPSC Developer
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Posted: 13th Jun 2015 19:43
@ stab in the dark.


Quote: "I have been developing the best Physics plugin DBPro has ever seen. It has features never before seen in DBPro.
There is Ragdoll, Automatic Destruction, Automatic collision shape calculation, the best CSG ever.
I have had very little interest from the community and I am considering canceling the project."


I don't think it's that people are not interested. I think it's because most of us that are left don't know enough to use it yet. I personally follow your thread and am amazed and interested in what you are doing. I hope to learn enough to use your physics. Don't give up just yet.

gamer, lover, filmmaker
wattywatts
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Posted: 13th Jun 2015 19:59 Edited at: 13th Jun 2015 20:03
@stab
There have been what seems like a lot of physics plugins released for dbp in the past and they all (this is my personal opinion and I fully acknowledge that others may have differing views) suck. This has greatly decreased my interest in such a plugin.
I would really love to make cloth from an object, such as clothes, but the last time I checked out your plugin cloth wasn't supported. If I find out that it is supported and the price isn't outside my budget, I'll probably jump on it.
Adrian
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Posted: 13th Jun 2015 23:40
I think a lot of people now regard DBPro as, if not dead, then retired as a programming language.

It still works, but there's no chance of getting any updates and if you want to write using more "exciting" technology then you have to turn to something else.

I would love an updated version but as there's no chance of that, when I finish the project I'm working on at the moment I will be switching to the Unreal Engine 4. (It works in a completely different way so it'll be a large learning curve, but I think it has more of a future than DBPro does.)

I don't think you can blame the community. People have been begging for updates for a while now, and since work started on GG there's no chance of any. People have moved on. There's much less activity on these boards now and I think that reflects the scene as a whole.

I think your plug-in looks really good. A few years ago I would certainly have used it (I've bought 2 or 3 plug-ins) but now I doubt if I'll ever get the chance to use it.

DBPro still works. There'll always be people using it but I think you're left with the hard-core supporters now.
I think that's the main reason you have had such little support.
Don't give up on it though. It's looking good.
mr Handy
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Posted: 14th Jun 2015 00:28
Oh sweet! It is that thread again! I can't resist to leave a few words.

Quote: "My current view is that we can move the entire engine from DBP to C++"

Nice. I hope no-one will die of old age at the time of final release.

Quote: "Many times I came across what I thought was a bug in DBPro source but after careful research
I found that DBPro is doing it correctly according to DirectX 9.0c documentation.
I think a lot of problems that are perceived are misinformation. For instance I seen a lot of post over the years
about how slow DBPro is. People run DBPro on a poor hardware and expect good results. You cannot
blame DBPro for this. If DBPro has a death sentence it is not coming from Lee but from the DBPro community."

This is very true!

Quote: "Times are changing, people expect indie games to be made by teams of professionals these days using Unity or whatever - the true hobbyist coder is a dying breed."

The heart of the problem is not in DBP features. DBP is a large community of eternal WIP projects. Unfinished and abandoned projects that barely use the current version of DBP at full power. Is Lee trying to make a Game Guru for teams who do real games? But aren't they already have Ogre, Unity, Frostbite, Unreal, Cry and so on? Some are even free now! What's the cherry on top to lure the pro teams here?

MrValentine
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Posted: 14th Jun 2015 04:35
I think the main issue that I see is not many users bought or even use the plugins they have available to them and attempt to recreate something that is already there....... and then give up when THEY fail... not the engine... and this in my experience on here was 7/10 cases...

REMSTART ******* @ Stab *******

Stab, I am sure you can work on something useful other than Physics, we already have around 4 solutions... having 5 is not really required... why don't you track down the devs of the PhysX made versions and see about working on their code and taking over those projects maybe?

Tell you what I would be willing to pay £20-30 for... [All the below]

2D Text management including dialogues [including dialogue trees, frames around them and position etc.] and a simplified menu system... as well as graphic font systems... Atlas Fonts? [XGUI/XFont died ages ago... would love to see the 2D Plugin Kit working in full]

But I would only buy it if it were through the TGC Store so it is permanently in my product list for easy download access... also thus giving TGC a revenue stream...

ALSO...

You can work on getting DBPro onto Steam along side AppGameKit! [I think more people need to know about DBPro] and another thing!!! Work on a Steam Integration Plugin that is complete and working for DPro... I have a project that would like to be on Steam with achievements and utilise the Steam DRM features...

Just some thoughts of things that I would not be capable of creating but would like to pay for and see done for DBPro...

I think you should run a thread in DBPro [not Newcomers] and gauge what is desired... how much they are willing to pay for it... and go from there... [Making the thread costs you nothing aside from physical energy, maybe 15-30% of your breakfast, 30 minutes electricity for your lighting, computer, screen, ... you get the idea... oh and a cup of coffee ]

REMEND ******* @ Stab *******

Kuper
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Posted: 14th Jun 2015 05:27 Edited at: 14th Jun 2015 05:29
Quote: "Nice. I hope no-one will die of old age at the time of final release."

I hope that Lee has find some good C++ programmers to help him.If not - we will see GameGuru on C++ just in the beginning of new centuary.
I even dont sure enough that it will be as fast as it is today.Open world,editor functions, scripts this all things must be written in a very effective and clear way.

@ Stab in the Dark software
Its good that you make a plugin which have so uniq functions like Voronoi fragmentation and so on.

Sum up.
Imho DBPro and all its products is not dead because they have not support or because they was created many years ago. I truly believe that DBPro can beat for example Unity and Lee can make a good money on this...How?

1)Popularization and commercials.
DBPro is easy to learn - why not study it at school? Unity for example has tonns of commercial stuff and a lot of live training etc.

2)You need to write all by yourself.
When someone downloads DBPro first time he has to write all basic functions for himself.DBPro has its own simple shadow and lights system but they are totally worthless.So you have to create your own.
This will take your time for sure.It took few years for Evolved to create his lighting system - and still some people dont know about it or have problems with its implementation.

Unity have its own disadvantages.First you have to learn C++ and
get into its sript system - but people who want to make games have editor
and all basic presets for default and functions like lighting and sound system.They can find tutorials and fresh updates - this all
make community to grow every day.And bring enough money for its creators.

Mage
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Posted: 14th Jun 2015 12:52 Edited at: 14th Jun 2015 12:57
Quote: "I think a lot of people now regard DBPro as, if not dead, then retired as a programming language."


I have been using DBPro for a long time. 12 or 13 years?

I've only ever used it as a hobby video game. Only a video game I was making myself. Every few months I'll get bored and play my game and add some levels, or a new type of gun, or a new enemy.

I had some incredible moments. Like the first time I wrote an AI. Up until that point characters in the game did not move at all. I wrote a follow AI all in one sitting without testing it. I launched it and it worked the first time. It was incredibly weird approaching another character in-game, having it look up at me, and then turn, approach and stop. Like breathing life into something.

I can't see it as a useful platform for a real commercial game past about 2005. There's an indie scene now that DBPro could have benefited from but, even an indie game needs DX10+ (or equivalent) plus someone competant at writing shaders.

Also Shaders:
I know that over the years we had shader packs and examples put out. The thing is premade shaders were never really something most people could use. You always had a situation where the Fur shader wasn't written to be compatible with a shadow shader you were using, or the light shader that you want to use has one too few lights to be useful, etc.

Just something I've been thinking about for a while.


Quote: "Many times I came across what I thought was a bug in DBPro source but after careful research
I found that DBPro is doing it correctly according to DirectX 9.0c documentation.
I think a lot of problems that are perceived are misinformation."


I'll agree I've gotten the sense this was the case quite a few times.

Quote: "
For instance I seen a lot of post over the years
about how slow DBPro is."


I once read a quote from Gabe Newell (from Valve Software) where he explained that a major benefit moving to DX10 was that DirectX 9 had issues with being flooded with draw calls.

That is to say the more draw calls your game has, the slower it is going to be even on vastly newer hardware.

It's been my impression that a major reason DBPro has low frame rates is because it is really inefficient with draw calls. Doesn't each object need a draw call? How do you get 1000's of objects in a screen an not tank the frame rate then?


Quote: "I'm still using DB and I don't think any of us realistically expected it to get officially updated anyway, although I'm sure we were all hoping for it. "

I remember people waiting for a DBPro sequel back in 2007. It isn't happening ever.

Seditious
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Posted: 14th Jun 2015 16:47 Edited at: 14th Jun 2015 16:48
I think it's a wise move. For such a large a complex project it's really not practical to use DBPro, just for the management issue itself. Let's not forget the immense compile times for changing just a single literal in the source, or the rather inefficient code generated by the compiler.

Don't get me wrong; Over the years I've had a lot of enjoyment out of it, and for some it's a great hobby and prototyping tool, but when you're working on something on the scale of GameGuru - and the fact that it is the new flagship product - you're going to need to be able to manage it well in terms of code layout, be able to edit and test changes very quickly (compiling in units is essential for this), and of course you'll want as much speed as possible in the resulting product. Most importantly some essential language features will exist that DBPro lacks.

I think it's a huge step forward for GG and I look forward to seeing what it brings.

Points! Points! Points!
Guido Italy
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Posted: 14th Jun 2015 18:10
DBPro is still a fantastic tool!

I created a "Alpha Version" of a Game for DBPro,
together with my team, we are recreating this Game with Unity.

I must say that the loading of objects (the same ...) and texture (the same ..) are much faster with DBPro (!!).

Even the display (BASE) of the game (without using shaders and / or special lighting), are in favor of of DBPro.

I hope that the community continues to create Plug In for DBPro.

I have no problem paying for these plug in.
sadsack
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Posted: 14th Jun 2015 19:08
I still use both DBP and FPSC, but I have moved most of my game building to unity 5.
renny

Life is not fair, so deal with it.
http://www.gusworks.com/
wattywatts
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Posted: 14th Jun 2015 22:49
Quote: "I can't see it as a useful platform for a real commercial game past about 2005. There's an indie scene now that DBPro could have benefited from but, even an indie game needs DX10+ (or equivalent) plus someone competant at writing shaders."

I think it really depends on the type of game. For a retro game or a sidescroller I think DBP would still work quite nicely. Anyway, it's important to know the limitations and work with them instead of against them.
Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 15th Jun 2015 02:24 Edited at: 15th Jun 2015 02:28
Quote: "Stab, I am sure you can work on something useful other than Physics, we already have around 4 solutions... having 5 is not really required... why don't you track down the devs of the PhysX made versions and see about working on their code and taking over those projects maybe?"


MrValentine
Why would you make such a suggestion?
The other physics dlls do not have the features that I have developed. If the other physics dlls worked correctly
Lee would have used them. They are full of bugs and are slow. How would taking over someone else's Physics project
make me any money? Everyone would expect a free update to those dlls. You have not looked very carefully at what I have been doing
or you would see that I have developed features that are not in the other physics dlls.
If I had not developed the ragdoll using Bullet physics, Lee would not have ragdoll in GG. Can you imagine where the TGC would be in
development if they had not gotten a decent ragdoll working. I doubt they would have even had a steam launch.
I started working with Bullet Physics before TGC had decided to announce they were going to use it in AppGameKit or FPSC Reloaded.
As a matter of fact they used one of my development videos as an example of what was to come for physics in AppGameKit 2 as if they were developing it.
Correct me if I am wrong but I do not believe AppGameKit has Bullet physics yet and I am pretty sure it was a stretch goal that was reached.
Since they have not contacted me about adding physics to AppGameKit 2 I do not think you will ever see it in AppGameKit 2.
As for GG it is not looking like they will add any more physics features to GG either. So I can only conclude that AppGameKit and GG are dead also.

Quote: "You can work on getting DBPro onto Steam along side AppGameKit! [I think more people need to know about DBPro] and another thing!!! Work on a Steam Integration Plugin that is complete and working for DPro... I have a project that would like to be on Steam with achievements and utilise the Steam DRM features..."


What makes you think I have any control over that?
Also demanding that I work on a plugin for you without offering a some financial incentive is rude.
Looks like someone else already made a Steam plugin, try searching the forums first.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=211760&b=5

WindowsXP SP3,Vista,Windows 7 SP1, DBpro v7.7RC7
Stab In The Dark Editor
The coffee is lovely dark and deep,and I have code to write before I sleep.
MrValentine
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Posted: 15th Jun 2015 03:27
Stab in the Dark software

Quote: "Tell you what I would be willing to pay £20-30 for... [All the below]"


Not reading someone's post and calling them rude....... is rude...

I think you have shown who you really are on here... I think you just entirely discredited yourself there...

I think I shall resume my previous opinion of you and join the rest on here...

Have a nice day...

[RE: Steam plugin, I am offering to pay you... gosh you are so weird... good luck to you, I think you need some Chill Time from the forum]

Ortu
DBPro Master
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Posted: 15th Jun 2015 03:43 Edited at: 15th Jun 2015 03:50
wow, let\'s calm down and take a deep breath. he wasn\'t demanding anything, he was offering suggestions on things which the community, himself in particular, might have more interest in. Valentine has purchased every available plugin for sale through TGC I believe, and I rather doubt he had any expectation of you not charging for any that you make, and is more than willing to buy any official product that he had interest in. you tend to take offense very quickly and it is foolish business to not listen when a potential customer is telling you directly what they are and are not interested in. regardless of thier reasons.

to be honest, I don\'t believe that the market of dbpro users is currently large enough to really support much profit in any dbpro focused commercial plugin, and blaming the community for a lack in interest is the last thing that is going to bring you more customers. this is a community of mostly hobbyists and beginners, we\'re not generally making commercial games and don\'t operate with commercial budgets. for me personally, no matter how good a plugin looks, if it has a price tag more than $20 I can pretty much guarantee you I wont using it or pay much attention to it long term. I will fall back on my own inferior solution that fits within my (non existent) budget.

MrValentine
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Posted: 15th Jun 2015 03:52
Thank You Ortu, and thank you once more for actually noticing what I say on here [RE: My Purchases through TGC ]

Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 15th Jun 2015 04:18
Remember it is not what you say or how you say it, it's how someone perceives it.
MrValentine I perceived your comment above as insulting my work when you state I could do something more useful
by working on someone else's physics plugin because mine is not needed.You did not think for a second how I would perceive your statements.
I think you should reread your post and look at it from my point of view. You direct a large rant directly at me and then expect no rebuttal from me.
You imply I should post in the newcomers section and find out what they want and what they are willing to pay for and then tell me what it will cost me to do it.
I will remind you I am a senior member of these forums compared to you and you should be careful posting your rants and then be annoyed by a rebuttal.

WindowsXP SP3,Vista,Windows 7 SP1, DBpro v7.7RC7
Stab In The Dark Editor
The coffee is lovely dark and deep,and I have code to write before I sleep.
MrValentine
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Posted: 15th Jun 2015 04:45 Edited at: 15th Jun 2015 04:49
Quote: "MrValentine I perceived your comment above as insulting my work when you state I could do something more useful"


So suggesting you are better than you perceive yourself to be is bad... ok... [EDIT Also I figured you needed a nudge regarding whether you should move on or limbo... ok go limbo]

Quote: "by working on someone else's physics plugin because mine is not needed.You did not think for a second how I would perceive your statements. "


Nor you mine it would seem...

Quote: "You imply I should post in the newcomers section and find out what they want and what they are willing to pay for and then tell me what it will cost me to do it. "


I repeat, Nor you mine it would seem...

Please stop posting you are not reading first... I have had enough of you tbh... you suggest I READ My own post when you have not even read your own... ROFL LOL LMAO Have a nice day you just made mine

Quote: "I will remind you I am a senior member of these forums compared to you and you should be careful posting your rants and then be annoyed by a rebuttal."


Excuse me while I pee myself laughing...

Ok, OK, Please stop writing to me, I have nothing more to say to you...

I am so glad I did not post my praises for Stabby in my first post... I had my reserves and they were so spot on...

Going to un-follow this thread, as it would seam to be going nowhere with some participant...

EDIT

SamKM I do apologise for the flame-caster in here... please do carry on as it were...

wattywatts
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Posted: 15th Jun 2015 05:39
Well. That was uncomfortable...
Hotline
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Posted: 15th Jun 2015 05:42
I think it was only matter of time... i don't want to insult enyone so PLEASE don't think i'm trying to be cynical or rude because i'm not!

The thing is we have to face it : DBpro is too old for today's needs and standards... The engine is not well written and not optimized it still has bunch of bugs , no tools for it and possibly zillion of other things.It's not crossplatform etc...

As i see Lee made a great move! c++ IS THE GAME INDUSTRY STANDARD you must accept that sooner or later. If you want fast development quality and most of all speed , then you have to move to c++, there's no other choice.We can talk about Java or UnrealScript , they both failed for game development (UnrealScript failed so bad that they even removed it because it was a waste of time and trying to reinvent the wheel.I feel really bad for people who invested lots of money to learn UnrealScript...UE4 completely relies on blueprints and pure c++)

I wish good luck to Lee and i hope he can finish GameGuru... The only thing i would suggest , he could pick up some opensource game engine instead of writing everything from scratch, i don't know how big is his development team (maybe he works on it alone ??? idk) but i did that last year(writing Audio , collision detection , Navigation mesh + A* , effects) and after 6 months moved to a c++ game engine and after 2-3 weeks i've already did twice as much as in those 6 monts...

[href=forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=191567&b=5]Spark Particle engine[/href]
[href=forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=199163&b=5]Transform gizmo plugin[/href]
MrValentine
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Posted: 15th Jun 2015 05:42
Quote: "Well. That was uncomfortable..."


I know, right?

Seditious
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Posted: 15th Jun 2015 05:57
Quote: "We can talk about Java or UnrealScript , they both failed for game development (UnrealScript failed so bad that they even removed it because it was a waste of time and trying to reinvent the wheel.I feel really bad for people who invested lots of money to learn UnrealScript...UE4 completely relies on blueprints and pure c++)"


Oh my... having not used UE4 I had no idea they removed UnrealScript. Such a shame, it was a great language, really geared towards state-driven game programming.

Points! Points! Points!
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Posted: 15th Jun 2015 06:27 Edited at: 15th Jun 2015 06:28
Quote: "Oh my... having not used UE4 I had no idea they removed UnrealScript. Such a shame, it was a great language, really geared towards state-driven game programming."


Yep , now they have blueprints, very similar to Kismet except it has improvements new features and simplifies some things that kismet didn't. Although i'm not big fan of UE4 because it requires extremely expensive hardware to run it and it's DX11 only... to have running it on a dual core machine you have to recompile the whole UE4 source which is not piece of cake (i thing there are 50 megs of source files )

[href=forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=191567&b=5]Spark Particle engine[/href]
[href=forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=199163&b=5]Transform gizmo plugin[/href]
Artformer
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Posted: 15th Jun 2015 17:18
I think Stab has a point.. Mr Valentine was tactless and arrogant. Stab has obviously put a lot of work in and what he's done looks excellent. He deserves more respect. Also, if his development video of Bullet Physics was used to demo AppGameKit 2 in progress but has never been implemented, then I feel we have all been hoodwinked, which doesn't feel like the first time. I personally have spent years developing a game that probably no one will ever
see, but I thank DBPro and its community for the opportunity to learn incredible amounts about animation, game design and coding. I realise the whole nature of DIY coding has changed since I first started with DBPro, but I really feel there is an important role for DBPro as a learning tool. It really DOES need to be on Steam, doesn't it?
wattywatts
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Posted: 15th Jun 2015 18:28 Edited at: 15th Jun 2015 18:30
Quote: "Mr Valentine was tactless and arrogant."

I had a longer reply typed out, but it suffices to say that Mr V's posts can be easily misread in a condescending tone that in my mind often proves to not be his intent.
So here's the most basic version of what went down: Stab said he was considering canceling the project due to a lack of interest from the community. Mr V then suggested some alternative projects that he would be interested in paying for. Stab then took offense that Mr V entertained his [Stab's] own idea of cancelling the project.

Anyway, that's how I see it.
Seditious
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Posted: 15th Jun 2015 21:44 Edited at: 15th Jun 2015 21:50
I don't think it was at all Mr Valentine's intent to be offensive; his posts often reflect a lot of respect for the person he is talking to. I think all members should be respecting each other equally regardless of how long a given member has been here. It's extremely arrogant to say that you deserve more respect than another person just because you've been subscribed to an internet forum a few years longer. No person is more important than another here.

Now, can we get back on topic?

Points! Points! Points!
Green Gandalf
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Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 16th Jun 2015 00:17
Quote: "I don't think it was at all Mr Valentine's intent to be offensive; his posts often reflect a lot of respect for the person he is talking to. I think all members should be respecting each other equally regardless of how long a given member has been here. It's extremely arrogant to say that you deserve more respect than another person just because you've been subscribed to an internet forum a few years longer. No person is more important than another here.

Now, can we get back on topic?"


+1



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Morcilla
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Posted: 17th Jun 2015 15:40 Edited at: 17th Jun 2015 15:41
Long live to DBPro and DGDK forever.

I just hope they keep on running on latest Windows.

Other than that I think that any news are better than no news.

I keep on working on the latest release of my project MPL3D Solar System (DGDK) (2005-2015).

Good luck to all.

Sph!nx
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Posted: 20th Jun 2015 17:06
I work with AppGameKit and DBP. DBP is still very useful for me and I will not stop using it in the near future.

Regards Sph!nx
Kingius Returns
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Posted: 26th Jun 2015 17:22
I would recommend moving to Freebasic and using the plugin on these forums that allows Freebasic to access DBPro's commands (and therefore engine).

There are a number of significant advantages to this approach. DBPro compiles very slowly but Freebasic compiles like lighting. The Advanced Lighting Engine has been converted to Freebasic now and is about 10 thousand lines of dbPro, but the Freebasic conversion is similar to a compiled library in that it has no compile cost in a project that's using it. I've gone from a 40 second compile time on a 20,000 line of code project to being up and running after making a code change in about 3 seconds by following this methodology.

So while dbPro may be dead, there's no reason our projects need to be. Freebasic supports Lua as well, for anyone using it in their projects like I am.
Kingius Returns
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Posted: 26th Jun 2015 17:24
Off topic but relevent - As for 'Stab in the Dark', watch out for this guy's ego. I've run into it as well and it seems to know no bounds. Basically, he's a troll.
James H
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Posted: 27th Jun 2015 14:24
Quote: "Off topic but relevent"

Not relevant at all
KISTech
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Posted: 1st Jul 2015 02:27
How does AGK2 with it's 3D features stack up to DBPro?

HI GUYS, I'M BAAAACK!
MrValentine
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Posted: 1st Jul 2015 10:44
KISTech, wow... not seen you around in over a year!

thenerd
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2015 06:22 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2015 06:24
I left DBPro because I was frustrated with frequent crashes for seemingly no reason, and lack of support for cross-platform development. If there was some way to recode DBPro with a few OOP features and support for OpenGL, I would jump back on in a heartbeat. It is by far my favorite development environment. It's simple and effective, but for me a few unfortunate bugs and missing features have turned me off.

AGK seems to lack the same early-2000s simplicity that DBPro is reminiscent of


Mobiius
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2015 11:08
Quote: " If there was some way to recode DBPro with a few OOP features"

DarkGDK??

Van B
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2015 14:57
AGK2's 3D features are getting some attention, but it's still lacking animation support. In terms of performance, it's probably not too different, even messing with the 3D stuff in AGKv1 I didn't get the impression that it was any slower or less powerful - just need some animation support and of course, the vital mesh memblock support as well.

KISTech
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2015 01:52
Quote: "KISTech, wow... not seen you around in over a year!"


Yeah, it's been a while. I've been running a Sports Photography business for the last 4 years and decided to hang it up. I just wasn't passionate about it anymore.

So now I want to get back to my space adventure game, FPS game, and maybe a few casual games for Android and iOS.
MrValentine
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2015 02:46
Quote: "Sports Photography business "


I considered getting into that at one point... but then weddings were making good money at the time ;

Quote: "FPS game"


Is this in your postings list? curious what it is like...

KISTech
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Posted: 8th Jul 2015 00:57
I refused to do weddings. Don't need the headaches.

The FPS didn't get very far. I had the modern soldier character pack and set up BlitzTerrain, a Dynamic Sky add-on, and (I think Sparky's) physics add-on. You were able to connect over a network walk around and shoot at each other.

I got much further on the Space game Worlds Apart Online. I had it set up with client/server and had 16 players on during a beta test once. It was choppy, but a good test.

[href=http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=167600&b=8]
Here's the WIP[/href]. It had over 100 planets, many with moons, a space station near Earth, and a cargo transport system. The cargo system was set up like a job board. Take the ones you want, the cargo is loaded, go to your destination and unload and get paid.

The next part I was working on was to optimize the networking for smoother multiplayer and to build in an upgrade system for your ship. All the ships were modular. You could add an extra defense module, extra weapons module, and up to 6 cargo modules that held removable cargo containers. I ended up having to move on and try to earn some extra cash so I didn't have time to spend on any of it.

I think this time around I'll probably make it single player. I'll have to call it something else because every time I pick a new name for a game, someone comes out with one with the same name. Very frustrating.

I've actually been considering trying to get our local school district to adopt the App Game Kit for computer classes. The kids around here are getting bored or confused in these classes because they're using jLogo to teach programming concepts to high school kids. I've never seen such a useless tool to teach proper coding. It's just surprising in an area where Intel has a dozen campuses within a 10 mile radius. COBOL would be better than this. At least with AppGameKit the kids could make something that would keep them engaged in the material and spark real interest in those with the aptitude for it.
MrValentine
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Posted: 8th Jul 2015 01:45
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=167600&b=8, no images :/...

Weddings, Not messy at all...

Did you not use DarkNET?

I find School staff to be a little timid when it comes to Tech...

I found that a local school is barely interested in teaching its kids about programming, and that is a high school... I have heard of primary schools teaching programming already...

Would love to see your work on WAO... images wise... did you not put them on a gallery of sorts?



KISTech
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Posted: 8th Jul 2015 02:46
Yeah, I used DarkNet. I just needed to optimize the exchange of data when more users got online.

The school is basically using whatever they can find that's free. I guess they don't care that they are actually turning some kids off to programming. They also never seem to use teachers for the courses in which they actually have experience. Go figure.

I used to have all the images on my website, but changed the site a few times since then. I'll see if I can locate them and put them back on the site where the forum can pick them up again.

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