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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Oculus Rift and HoloLens

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 14th Aug 2015 00:20 Edited at: 14th Aug 2015 00:21
Haven't been around much lately but I am guessing that V2 is seeing the goal draw closer. I have recently joined a game lab and they are planing to invest in multiple VR/AR units next year because they see a lot of potential to get into a fresh market. Here's the opportunity to make games that no one have even thought of before. And it is excellent for conventions and to get funding. So, I want to push for support for Oculus Rift and HoloLens support for AppGameKit in 2016. Well, that and some console support. With full on 3D support this couldn't be a better time.

And I might as well add that I will become more active here again starting September. I have decided to work less and try to get my game Rush to Adventure completed. I have the money to do so and through the game lab I have potential connections into the industry. I am super excited to see where this can go.

bjadams
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Posted: 14th Aug 2015 10:11
Even I would love to see AppGameKit support new tech like Oculus Rift & consoles... but unfortunately I don't think that will happen any soon. AppGameKit does not even support Win Universal apps.... that could bring in Xbox support.

I really wish AppGameKit was at the forefront of implementing new tech, as it would attract the attention of many new users. But it's not up to you & me, it's up to TGC what they want to do with AGK...
BatVink
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Posted: 14th Aug 2015 10:38
Games have already been made for 3D. Ched80 recreated the Metro Theatre in AppGameKit, I bought Google Card lenses to try it out and it is impressive.

There have also been a couple of other games released in 3D on the Play Store.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
TutCity is being rebuilt
Mobiius
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Posted: 14th Aug 2015 11:24 Edited at: 14th Aug 2015 11:25
3D works fine*, I'm in the process of porting Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of time to AGK2.

* By fine I mean, you can use 3D. I'm still working out it's quirks.

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SpecTre
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Posted: 14th Aug 2015 11:59
@Mobiius, looks great

The Amiga and Amos were great!
My website LEAP - Download Paint Pot here!
Mobiius
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Posted: 14th Aug 2015 12:01
Thank you. I hope to have the full game world implemented, but with my own gameplay. (Probably some kind of online multiplayer thing. Not quite MMORPG, but similar.)

SpecTre
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Posted: 14th Aug 2015 12:03
Quote: "I hope to have the full game world implemented"


Very cool hope you can pull it off.

The Amiga and Amos were great!
My website LEAP - Download Paint Pot here!
Mobiius
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Posted: 14th Aug 2015 12:06
Me too! Any excuse to play OoT again is fine by me!

Digital Awakening
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Posted: 14th Aug 2015 15:39
The point of this thread wasn't 3D. Great job on OOT! But to ask for support for headsets next year when v2 is complete.

SpecTre
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Posted: 14th Aug 2015 16:31
Quote: "support for headsets"


Would be good but I would guess out of most peoples reach at that price.

Guess it will be on Kickstarter 3 or 4

The Amiga and Amos were great!
My website LEAP - Download Paint Pot here!
bjadams
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Posted: 14th Aug 2015 18:00
do you think another kickstarter will be successful after the first one was delayed so much?
Digital Awakening
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Posted: 14th Aug 2015 18:05
I think that the price will start to come down soon. Once it's ready for mass production. And with v2 complete, this is one possible direction to progress. And I would assume that it is easier than for example PS4 support.

TThis is something that is very hot right now with multiple big companies investing loads of money on it. And it's a feature that can bring in more users. I think it's definitely something that TGC could charge extra for. Or include in v3, what ever they prefer.

Digital Awakening
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Posted: 14th Aug 2015 18:11
As for Kickstarter. I don't think that is the best way to go. But TGC can offer v3 pre purchase. Buy v2 and get it for free, if you already own v2 you can pay a smaller price to upgrade to v3. Both options include access to early releases, just like with v2. No promised dates,just promised features. It's done when it's done.

BatVink
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Posted: 14th Aug 2015 18:35
Quote: "The point of this thread wasn't 3D. Great job on OOT!"


I think you missed the bit where I said I was testing Ched80's games with Google Card. Here is the man himself...



Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
TutCity is being rebuilt
Digital Awakening
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Posted: 14th Aug 2015 18:52
Still Google's Cardboard (seen that before and it's cool) and not one of the products I am asking about. Oculus Rift and HoloLens (and Sony's Morpheus) are on a different level of immersion and offers more interactivity. Cardboard isn't really talked about much these days. At least it's not talked about in gaming circles.

Digital Awakening
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Posted: 15th Aug 2015 13:45
The big thing about VR is that it is coming soon, it is a hot topic and it is an uncrowded segment. It is a lot easier to get noticed compared to other segments.

For me personally I will get access to headsets for free next year. And I will also get paid trips to conventions as well as floor space, hopefully next year. And I have people to collaborate with. All thanks to being part of a game lab. So I might have the opportunity to put an AppGameKit developed project into some of the largest conventions in the world. Like E3, Gamescom and TGS. It might be one headset in a small corner but it's still pretty awesome. And it's all next year stuff.

SpecTre
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Posted: 17th Aug 2015 01:22 Edited at: 17th Aug 2015 01:27
@DA,

it looks like you have some great events and opportunities coming your way, exciting times.

I would say though regarding VR especially with things like Oculus Rift etc they will not happen any time soon with AGK.

It is a real shame that progress is slow with AppGameKit as it has lots of potential which unfortunately is not even seen by the creators of the product as they seem blinded by Game Guru with short term money funding for them.
You can't blame them really as they need to live off something as they do this full time and I presume have no other income. It is the same all over though if you think big software houses who limit their products and keep churning out the same old stuff with remakes and the next in the series e.g. C.O.D 1,2,3,4,5,6...etc as it earns them the money.

However if they just looked a little further into the future, things could be so much brighter!
I can really see AppGameKit in the future making big bucks if it was marketed right which it isn't at the moment.

This is not a moan or off topic really though but just imagine this:

put Game Guru on a switch with AppGameKit so Game Guru has one coder and AppGameKit has the rest, then look at this:

Get 3D boxed off pretty rapid and working well.
Get AppGameKit working on the Raspberry Pi 2 with Raspbian (linux for arm) and Windows 10 iOt with pins working for robotics etc.
Look at Oculus Rift and other VR support.
Get other formats sorted like PS3/4, XBOX 360/One, Wii U and the new Nintendo due next year.
The above re PS4 and XBOX One link in with VR as they have their own systems.
Get HTML5 in there too.

What is the outcome?

= Big Bucks!

especially if there is then an asset store for AppGameKit with GFX, sound, shaders and code!

TGC you need vision for the future and if you leave it the way it is going you are going to miss the boat as the party will be over when you realise that really, people are not that interested in first person shooters on PC only, that don't match the big games in this genre and that can't be sold to anyone when completed.

What is big at the minute?


Mobile gaming, phones, tablets etc.

2D is big and retro too.

Raspberry Pi, I know a lot of people have said this is hobbyist only but when you think 5 million units have been sold and it's still going strong, they are in schools for the next generation who would find it a lot easier to code with Basic than Python after getting through Scratch and now Microsoft has taken a big interest!! = Lot's of users and potential customers of AGK.

VR, with proper headsets as mentioned in this thread.


All these are very big buzz words and very current!



What is not a big buzz word now and not so current?

Hmmm..... First person shooters made with Game Guru, I can't say I have seen one being sold on an app store or on Steam for PC's.



I know it is a massive amount of work and investment but better start it sooner rather than later, get the asset store going for AppGameKit, promised a while back and a good chance to make money for TGC to do these things but where is it???

Does TGC really want to be profitable for the future? I do wonder sometimes.

Anyway thats my view and the new motto for TGC is VISION AND PASSION FOR THE FUTURE.

The Amiga and Amos were great!
My website LEAP - Download Paint Pot here!
bjadams
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Posted: 17th Aug 2015 14:19
@spectrepaul AppGameKit is aimed for the one man hobbyist, all those things you mentioned like consoles won't be implemented. Do you think the average AppGameKit user is going to buy a PS4 or Wii devkit?!

As far as I know GameGuru has 1 coder. I think AppGameKit made huge leaps forwards when Paul took over.
SpecTre
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Posted: 17th Aug 2015 18:09
Its just where I see AppGameKit could be at in the future, especially the raspberry pi which is also hobbyist and a massive market and potential. As I said it is not a moan etc but just imagine how it could be in the future.

I am quite happy at the minute using 2D and don't even need 3D yet, just thinking forward

The Amiga and Amos were great!
My website LEAP - Download Paint Pot here!
SpecTre
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Posted: 17th Aug 2015 23:09
I have been having another think about this re:

Quote: "Do you think the average AppGameKit user is going to buy a PS4 or Wii devkit?!"


A lot of people say this and yes this is correct, the average user would not use all this but and it is a big BUT nobody will use them if they are not there!

Build the features and the users will follow........... if it is advertised well too
Most users probably said the same about other programming languages and engines when they first came out, e.g. Unity etc but many users do use the top features and VR is a big hot topic at the minute.


NO reason a small company can't think big

The Amiga and Amos were great!
My website LEAP - Download Paint Pot here!
bjadams
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Posted: 17th Aug 2015 23:50
@spectrepaul there is now a version of windows 10 for raspberry pi so if AppGameKit would run as a Windows10 universal app, it would run on the pi too
SpecTre
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Posted: 18th Aug 2015 00:53
Quote: "there is now a version of windows 10 for raspberry pi"


yes that was what I was saying but I was thinking not just releasing apps on the raspberry pi but actually being able to run the IDE on it and code direct on the platform. Would be awesome, especially with commands for GPIO for making.

5 million units sold + AppGameKit on the format + young user base learning how to use AppGameKit = Long life of AppGameKit

There could be a special education price for AppGameKit to raspberry pi users.
Get the kids learning on it and many will stay coding with AppGameKit in the future on AGK2,3,4,5,6,7 etc.



Vision and thinking ahead is what I meant.


I know this is sort of going off topic now but for those not in the know with Raspberry Pi, they now have a magazine in print format being sold in the shops:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi-issues/MagPi36.pdf

For the community by the community, just think, users on here creating AppGameKit tutorials in the mag................... good coverage............ see where I am coming from?

Anyway I know its not coming any time soon if at all but for me if there is one thing that AppGameKit should have, it's the raspberry pi on board.


Think I should have been in marketing lol

The Amiga and Amos were great!
My website LEAP - Download Paint Pot here!
bjadams
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Posted: 18th Aug 2015 11:49
yes that could bring some profit for AppGameKit, but I think they better try to make Win10 universal app support before that.

Also supporting a new platform takes time, so they need to choose wisely as they have limited human resources
SpecTre
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Posted: 18th Aug 2015 13:44
Quote: "I think they better try to make Win10 universal app support before that"


Quote: "Also supporting a new platform takes time, so they need to choose wisely as they have limited human resources"


true and true


Be good to get some discussion going though with the TGC team and see there views on this type of thing for the future.

The Amiga and Amos were great!
My website LEAP - Download Paint Pot here!
bjadams
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Posted: 18th Aug 2015 14:27
I think that they said it loud and clear a long time ago that they want to do the things on the kickstarter list first. that is going to take quite some time.

sometimes i wonder if they should be better off and make AppGameKit opensource like they did with DarkBasic, and allow knowledgeable members of the community to help with new commands and fixes, and TGC would concentrate on doing apps
Digital Awakening
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Posted: 18th Aug 2015 14:54 Edited at: 18th Aug 2015 14:56
Where is AppGameKit going after the v2 goals have been completed? And I would assume it's on track to be finished this year? This is one massive solid foundation. The next step is adding additional features. Wether it's v3 or maybe AppGameKit should be split into 2 versions: Standard and Professional? That would allow multiple prices. One could even split off 2D only features to a budget version. That's for TGC to decide. The point is that new features will be added next year.

One problem with AppGameKit is that beyond the hobbyist coder there's no additional support right now. What if someone made something really cool. Not being able to release on consoles could then be a problem. And because the possibility isn't there, potential customers choose a different tool.

With VR if someone is interested in getting into this new technology they will look into possible solutions. If you don't want to use Unity then AppGameKit could be an option if it has support. But it could also be that just because it supports VR people will think that maybe in the future they want to use it. If AppGameKit doesn's have support for it then it won't even be considered.

BTW, VR is not a new platform. You will still be running on PC/Mac/Linux. We only need to support the extra hardware.

bjadams
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Posted: 18th Aug 2015 18:22
Quote: "What if someone made something really cool. And because the possibility isn't there, potential customers choose a different tool."


Unfortunately there have been such people here, working on a project, then they reach some limit and they disappear and chose another sdk
BatVink
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Posted: 18th Aug 2015 20:24
Quote: "they now have a magazine in print format being sold in the shops"


What is this "print" that you speak of? Is this like the Internet of Things, but even more advanced? It is a new concept to me.


[EDIT] I looked it up. Apparently it's like a web page that doesn't update itself.

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SpecTre
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Posted: 18th Aug 2015 23:34
Quote: "What is this "print" that you speak of?"


You lost me here lol ......... I am meaning Print format as in printed for the newsagents.
Go and have a look in WHS and you will see it on the shelf for £5.99.

You must have heard the word in that context before??

Anyway if it's on the shelf it's doing well as a magazine and articles are written by the community, so AppGameKit articles could get in there if feature available in AppGameKit = lots of publicity don't you think?

The Amiga and Amos were great!
My website LEAP - Download Paint Pot here!
Hodgey
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2015 10:23
@Digital Awakening: You might be able to get a head start on this yourself.

A lot of this is much easier said than done.

Set up two cameras in AppGameKit - one for each eye and apply the barrel distortion shader to each (not sure if Occulus provides this shader or not but there seem to be a couple of sources that provide shaders that do similar). A place to start.

As for the head tracking this might take some external coding but you could write an application that reads the tracking data and broadcasts it over local host. In AppGameKit you open up a socket and read the data from it.

Get those two going and you're on your way to supporting Occulus with AGK.
xCept
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2015 11:20
I'm incredibly frustrated that Oculus has not made available a Windows 10 driver, so the DK2 is absolutely worthless for those of us who upgraded to the latest OS. They also just spontaneously delayed their planned SDK update another week and confirmed that it still will not support Windows 10. They've been terrible at communicating with backers and developers and there is really no excuse to not have a Windows 10 driver when betas of 10 have been out for nearly a year now and all other hardware/software seems to work just fine. Plus the new SDK will break all Unity 4 projects and anything built beyond the last SDK version. I understand it's a "beta" product, but it is also a $2 billion product with a lot of pissed off developers right now.
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2015 20:07
I don't know a lot about the Oculus Rift's hardware but it's possible that if they outsource some of it (such as head tracking) then it's up to the suppliers to provide Windows 10 drivers. But if that were the case they should have discovered that a while ago and reported that to the hardware suppliers and asked for a new driver.

Doesn't sound good on the SDK front.
Digital Awakening
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2015 20:56 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2015 20:58
Hodgey:
I will be working on Rush to Adventure until that is complete. Which is why I am speaking of 2016. I am also not that hard core. If AppGameKit has support for VR when I get my hands on the hardware, then I will give it a go and work with others in the game lab.

I am taking time off from work to finish RTA, so I will be losing money until then. About $250 per month. So that will be my main focus.

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Posted: 23rd Aug 2015 00:22
Fair enough. When you get your hands on a set you'll probably become hardcore.
Digital Awakening
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Posted: 26th Aug 2015 21:07
Check these out:
https://youtu.be/1-DzsLlErEY
https://youtu.be/X1QuYoF-NJs

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