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Global Threads / Forum board changes [Feedback needed]

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The Next
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Posted: 24th Aug 2015 17:42 Edited at: 25th Aug 2015 12:03
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I will soon be migrating the TGC forums to a new server network and a new version of forum software, in preparation for future changes. As a result of this change we will be looking to make a number of changes to the boards.

One of these changes will see us reduce the number of boards by at least half. Feedback on where you believe this should be done would be much appreciated.

Please let me know what boards you believe are important and which you think can be deleted.

Current boards to remove

Newcomers DBPro Corner - Merge with DarkBASIC Professional Discussion
AGK Pascal - Delete
Freedom Engine - Delete
Dark GDK.NET - Merge with Dark GDK
PureGDK - Delete
Website - Delete
The 20 Line Challenge - Merge with Code Snippets
Newsletter - Delete
FPS Creator X10 - Merge with FPSC Classic Product Chat
FPSC Classic Feature Creep - Delete
3 Dimensional Chat - Merge into new "Game Asset Creation" board
2D All the way - Merge into new "Game Asset Creation" board
Music & Sound FX - Merge into new "Game Asset Creation" board
Game Design Theory - Delete
Programming Talk - Delete
3D Canvas Pro - Delete
Texture Maker - Delete
3D World Studio - Delete
ConvSEO & SketchUp - Delete
Program Announcements - Merge into new "Program Announcements & WIP Showcase"
Work in Progress - Merge into new "Program Announcements & WIP Showcase"
Puzzle Game Competition - Delete
NVIDIA Competition 2008 - Delete
Intel Competition - Delete
Bug Reports DBPro - Delete
FPSC Classic Bug Reports - Delete

Categories to remove - any boards left in these category after the above changes will be moved to the General section most likely.
Game Making
Support
Showcase

Side Note: No threads or posts will be deleted, they will still be searchable just the boards they are in will be locked and hidden to clean things up.

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 24th Aug 2015 17:46
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I think the boards with very low activity could be merged somehow. You could for example merge the 3d, 2d graphics and music boards into one asset board.

You could probably get rid of all the really old competition boards too

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 24th Aug 2015 18:22
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It all looks good to me! Whatever you decide needs to go I'm sure will be fine.


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BatVink
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Posted: 24th Aug 2015 19:17 Edited at: 24th Aug 2015 19:17
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Quote: "The 20 Line Challenge - Merge with Code Snippets"


I don't know how much traffic these get, but they are very different boards.

I would suggest that a general Code Snippets board with the ability to select the language would be good. (Like the way Programming Talk works).

Quote: "Program Announcements - Delete
Work in Progress- Delete"


These are well used and generate lots of useful feedback (for AppGameKit at least).
You could merge the languages into one and select the relevant language (again, like Program announcements)

I guess the long term goal for TGC is to move users over to AppGameKit from DBP. You could use this opportunity to get the two currently divided factions talking about game development together on a more generic level. This would be possible with WIP and Announcements at the very least.

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Quik
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Posted: 24th Aug 2015 20:53
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Quote: "You could for example merge the 3d, 2d graphics and music boards into one asset board."

or something like that The 3d forums are very low activity, but IMO they are important (maybe just nostalgia talking? xD) so maybe some form of merging is in order.



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The Zoq2
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Posted: 24th Aug 2015 21:08
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I agree with quick, I like browsing both the 2d and 3d board every once in a while but they are pretty inactive. Perhaps merging them would give more traffic.

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
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Ortu
DBPro Master
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Posted: 24th Aug 2015 21:26
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i would still like to see a page which aggregates new posts across boards. vanilla, ipboards, etc have this and it is great, as it brings all active discussion to one central point without having to go to each individual board. it also keeps a better sense of overall forum activity regardless of the activity level of any given board. typically you can exclude specific boards from this feed if you don't want to see them.

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Ortu
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Posted: 24th Aug 2015 21:31 Edited at: 24th Aug 2015 21:38
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Quote: "Program Announcements - Delete
Work in Progress- Delete"


wait what?!

i can see merging these, but delete? where is this content supposed to go? there are several active long running wips and a lot of good older stuff that will never be seen if it is hidden except for specifically searching for it

Quote: "

Quote: "Program Announcements - Delete
Work in Progress- Delete"

These are well used and generate lots of useful feedback (for AppGameKit at least).
You could merge the languages into one and select the relevant language (again, like Program announcements)

I guess the long term goal for TGC is to move users over to AppGameKit from DBP. You could use this opportunity to get the two currently divided factions talking about game development together on a more generic level. This would be possible with WIP and Announcements at the very least."


edit: yeah i like this idea. merge the agk wip/announcements with the general (dbpro) wip/announcements and let them continue forward as a unified general 'projects' board

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Ortu
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Posted: 24th Aug 2015 21:42
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Quote: "Bug Reports DBPro - Delete"


might be better to merge with dbpro discussion, there is useful info, resources, and links for troubleshooting on this board, at least the release history sticky by ianM if nothing else

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KISTech
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Posted: 24th Aug 2015 21:46
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Will there be new board software, or an update to the current?
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The Next
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Posted: 24th Aug 2015 22:06 Edited at: 24th Aug 2015 22:13
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Thanks for all the feedback so far. I have updated the top post to reflect the changes suggested

Quote: "I don't know how much traffic these get, but they are very different boards.

I would suggest that a general Code Snippets board with the ability to select the language would be good. (Like the way Programming Talk works)."


I will see about creating a system like that, for now I will keep merging them. A system like that would be implemented after move anyway.

Quote: "i would still like to see a page which aggregates new posts across boards. vanilla, ipboards, etc have this and it is great, as it brings all active discussion to one central point without having to go to each individual board."


I also like this feature of other boards and once I have migrated the forum to the new software this can be a feature to add.

Quote: "might be better to merge with dbpro discussion, there is useful info, resources, and links for troubleshooting on this board, at least the release history sticky by ianM if nothing else"


There is also a lot of junk in there. But I will have a look and maybe transfer the stickies.

Quote: "Will there be new board software, or an update to the current?"


It is totally new software, it is still custom written but it is more up to date with current technologies both server side and client side. It is designed to work and feel like the current forums so you will all be at home with it just with some new added features. I will be retaining most of the look and feel of the forums, all the emoticons, banners and such will remain.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 24th Aug 2015 22:08
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Oh I didn't see about deleting the WIP board! Please don't, there's so much history there! Perhaps just merge it, Program Announcements, and Showcase together and just name it "Our Showcase" or something like that.


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The Next
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Posted: 24th Aug 2015 22:10
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Quote: "Oh I didn't see about deleting the WIP board! Please don't, there's so much history there! Perhaps just merge it, Program Announcements, and Showcase together and just name it "Our Showcase" or something like that."


See top post already changed that.

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BatVink
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Posted: 24th Aug 2015 22:35
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Another thought...The AppGameKit boards are quite fragmented. Windows & Meego, Android, MacOS, Blackberry and iOS could probably be merged down (It's also missing Linux). Again...with the ability to select which platform, and a "general" option where it isn't specific to any. Maybe the options to use as tags could be...

General
iOS
Android
Desktop
Mobile
Other

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JLMoondog
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Posted: 24th Aug 2015 22:52
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Quote: "
General
iOS
Android
Desktop
Mobile
Other
"


I'd also love this features. I also don't check those boards as often as I should compared to the others because I don't develop for them. Combining them and than allowing users to select a platform would help allot in going through new threads and helping users with issues.

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Markus
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Posted: 24th Aug 2015 22:58
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i agree with BatVink, i like to set/use tags, also input by myself.
and/or the moderators assigned the needed tags.
its much better to find something.
currently i looking only in agk product chat because i have a link
in my browser bookmarks icon bar.

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budokaiman
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Posted: 24th Aug 2015 22:59 Edited at: 24th Aug 2015 23:00
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Quote: "Dark GDK.NET - Merge with Dark GDK .NET"

Wut? (See avatar)

Quote: "I don't know how much traffic these get, but they are very different boards.

I would suggest that a general Code Snippets board with the ability to select the language would be good. (Like the way Programming Talk works)."

I agree with this, they serve two completely different purposes, you would not look in 20-line challenge for useful snippets, but complete works compressed down.

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KISTech
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Posted: 25th Aug 2015 01:47
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Speaking of banners, I'm missing a few. AGK2 and FPSR supporter.
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Chris Tate
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Posted: 25th Aug 2015 10:51 Edited at: 25th Aug 2015 11:01
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I second the aggregate post idea; it is quite common to be able to see the current popular topics on some kind of top 50 or recommended view page or some kind of global DIV containing recommended topics, not just adverts.

It's be nice to follow some of my favourite developers because I often miss some of their posts about their AppGameKit projects or interesting debates in the Geek culture boards. I do not check my emails often, much less just to see who posted; a little box showing the developers who posted would be a dream.

Personally I'd like to see all the tool WIP and showcases placed in proximity; be it by personal settings or global. I think most personal project based boards like the WIP, project announcements and asset production boards are my main reason for being here and would love if projects of all tools including FPSCR could have a section close together rather than websites apart; but I'd understand if this is not possible.

It kind of feels like an empty World of Warcraft server with 75% of the players on Horde, and only 25% on the allience. You need a good balance and populated forums to keep the buzz going.

Keep up all the good work.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 25th Aug 2015 13:35
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Only just seen this. Most of my concerns have already been covered/dealt with. One thing remains:

Quote: "Texture Maker - Delete"


Why not merge it into the new Game Assets board? TM is one of the most useful tools ever produced by TGC and I use it a lot. I can see it's not well frequented though.

The one thing that mustn't disappear is IanM's DBPro release details sticky on the Bug Reports board. I'm sure we can live without the rest of the Bug Reports board, but not that. I know you've already said you'll consider this, but, really, if that thread disappears from view then you might as well hide all the DBPro stuff. So please come to the right decision ...



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Battoad
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Posted: 25th Aug 2015 22:42
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I don't think the current boards are too bad for a user in some respects but the search facility is dreadful.

I think that the better way forward is to just have the main boards such as AppGameKit, DBPro, GameGuru + 1 or 2 other main ones, but then to improve the "thread subject search" massively.
Instead of just having 2 options in the search scope, i.e "Entire forum" and "Just this board", it is here where we should be able to search on multiple sub-sections, for example if AppGameKit board is selected we could search on any or all subsections such as AppGameKit product Chat, AppGameKit Newcomers Corner, Android etc to bring up results as required.

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bjadams
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Posted: 26th Aug 2015 00:49
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instead of killing the AppGameKit boards for Pascal etc, why not just merge them into OTHER PLATFORMS.

There's some important info in there, that people might want to look up in the future
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Ortu
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Posted: 26th Aug 2015 01:06
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really, instead of locking + hiding 'deleted' forums, why not just lock them and move them to a new 'archive' board for easy browsing. no worry about maintaining then as they are read only, but the content remains more easily discoverable than only via search.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 26th Aug 2015 01:22
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Good idea.



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Alien Menace
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Posted: 26th Aug 2015 09:10
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I hope you are not considering merging the AppGameKit Showcase in with anything else. I really would hate to see AppGameKit apps lost among GameGuru stuff frankly as I consider that product more a toy and AppGameKit as a serious programming tool.

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The Next
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Posted: 26th Aug 2015 14:34 Edited at: 26th Aug 2015 14:35
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Quote: "Why not merge it into the new Game Assets board? TM is one of the most useful tools ever produced by TGC and I use it a lot. I can see it's not well frequented though. "


Texture maker is no longer supported as a TGC product, so it having its own board really isn't required. It may make sense to merge the threads though, I will look through that board and see if it will make sense being merged with the new game assets board like you suggested.

Quote: "I don't think the current boards are too bad for a user in some respects but the search facility is dreadful."


Once we have moved to the new software I will make the improvement of the search system a priority.

Quote: "instead of killing the AppGameKit boards for Pascal etc, why not just merge them into OTHER PLATFORMS."


I will look to see where I can merge the pascal board.

Quote: "really, instead of locking + hiding 'deleted' forums, why not just lock them and move them to a new 'archive' board for easy browsing. "


Because of the number of boards we are looking to remove, an archive board would become a mixture of everything and it would still be hard to find anything that isn't on the first page. I am more interested in improving the search system in the new software to allow better discovery of old threads.

Quote: "I hope you are not considering merging the AppGameKit Showcase in with anything else."


No this will remain the same as it is, the GameGuru stuff is on a totally different site anyway.

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CJB
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Posted: 26th Aug 2015 17:52
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I hate to see anything get deleted.
I'm sure there are some gems worth keeping if only the search facility was improved enough to be able to find them. Why not create an archived TGC forum site to host the old boards - read-only of course, and if you can dig up the old DBDN boards and drop those in too then that would be fantastic! I'd be happy to host this if required, rather than lose the boards forever!

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Scraggle
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Posted: 26th Aug 2015 17:57
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I like the idea of merging the 2D and 3D boards to a single Assets board and whilst I agree that most things FPSC should be kept separate, I do think that the FPSC models and media board could be merged into the main Assets board. There is a lot of cross platform possibilities with all assets.

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KISTech
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Posted: 26th Aug 2015 20:10
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A structured hierarchy would make the most sense, so those that only work with certain tools don't have to wade through things that don't belong to that tool.



It would cut down on clutter and maintain things in a more encapsulated view for specific tools. The older WIP and Program Announcements would have to be archived, as I suspect nobody is going to pick through those and sort them by Tool.

I don't mind seeing the format change. I think it's a good thing and somewhat overdue. It's good that the old stuff would still be available though, as there are gems of wisdom to be found in there.

I also suspect the board would run faster if those archives were split off into a separate site. The database for this forum has got to be HUGE.
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snowdog
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Posted: 26th Aug 2015 20:30
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Sounds good to me. Am surprised that AppGameKit 2 didn't prompt a new forum when it launched, the same way that FPS Creator Reloaded/GameGuru did.

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Posted: 26th Aug 2015 22:43
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Quote: "I do think that the FPSC models and media board could be merged into the main Assets board. There is a lot of cross platform possibilities with all assets."

I agree to this



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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 27th Aug 2015 00:59
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Why bother creating a new board for AppGameKit 2? It's virtually the same as AppGameKit 1 but with more functionality. It is not an entirely different product, why should it be treated as such with the addition of a new board, which would create more clutter and thus render The Next's organization attempts useless?

Just keep it grouped as it is currently, and maybe add a Thread Prefix system, where the users can select what versions of what products they have. Add in the ability to search for threads by thread prefixes and that also solves a lot of searching issues as well.


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SpecTre
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Posted: 27th Aug 2015 01:32
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Too many threads for AppGameKit if you ask me, you only need 3 for it and all under the heading of AppGameKit not 1 or 2:

AGK:
Product Chat (This to contain Android, iOS, etc, etc)
Newcomers
Showcase

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Alien Menace
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Posted: 27th Aug 2015 04:07
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Quote: "Why bother creating a new board for AppGameKit 2? It's virtually the same as AppGameKit 1 but with more functionality"


I think that works fine from an AGK2 point of view but those still using AppGameKit 1 will find answers to their questions that they simply cannot use, especially if they don't make it clear they are still using AppGameKit 1.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 27th Aug 2015 06:10
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And how does my Thread Prefix idea not solve that issue...?


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Alien Menace
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Posted: 27th Aug 2015 07:49 Edited at: 27th Aug 2015 07:51
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So your idea is the categorize posts with a prefix rather them categorizing them with an actual category? So if somebody just wanted to see AppGameKit 1 or AppGameKit 2 posts they would first have to perform a search for them using your prefix?

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 27th Aug 2015 07:55 Edited at: 27th Aug 2015 07:56
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There doesn't need to exist a separate board for AppGameKit v1. There just doesn't. Putting a thread prefix system would allow people to search for terms like "how do I make an array in AKG/AGK2", just like that. I've seen it on countless other forums and it works wonderfully, once people get used to the idea of using them that is.

Besides, AppGameKit is moving so fast by the time The Next gets the forum migrated AppGameKit 3 might be out, so what do you propose then? Another category and thus more clutter?

I just don't see why people seem to think we need a category for different versions of the same software. That's ridiculous.


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BatVink
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Posted: 27th Aug 2015 11:14
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The prefix concept is not new, it is already being used here. I would have liked to see it in the AppGameKit boards from the beginning, with the options I suggested earlier in this thread...

General
iOS
Android
Desktop
Mobile
Other

I think it would work better with a predefined tag system. So you can make a general browse by platform(s), or filter your search results by platform(s). The plural is important, you might want to search by Android and mobile but not Desktop.

At the moment I may have an Android question that could actually be answered by the general community, some of whom are not using Android. Hence, I only ever post in the main AppGameKit board.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 27th Aug 2015 16:21
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+1 to BatVink's post, I entirely forgot that we had the prefix system in place in the Programming Chat boards.


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The Next
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Posted: 27th Aug 2015 16:54 Edited at: 27th Aug 2015 17:00
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Quote: "I hate to see anything get deleted.
I'm sure there are some gems worth keeping if only the search facility was improved enough to be able to find them. Why not create an archived TGC forum site to host the old boards - read-only of course, and if you can dig up the old DBDN boards and drop those in too then that would be fantastic! I'd be happy to host this if required, rather than lose the boards forever!"


We don't have the old DBDN boards any more. We won't run an archive of these boards as they require an outdated PHP version that is no longer supported. The forums are also almost 90GB in size including attachments so running an archive with this amount of storage would be a waste.


Regarding the prefix system that is more likely to be the route we go as it produces a more organised system and less clutter.

I would have to change this for the new forum software, as that doesn't currently have a prefix ability. The new system would allow searching by the prefixes. The idea is they act more like tags, a thread could then have multiple tags e.g. an AppGameKit thread could be tagged with multiple tags AGKV2, Android

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MrValentine
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Posted: 28th Aug 2015 04:39
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The Next, Will the page serving remain the same?

I was waiting for this merger to occur before releasing my forum browser app...

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Alien Menace
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Posted: 28th Aug 2015 04:52 Edited at: 28th Aug 2015 04:54
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Quote: "Regarding the prefix system that is more likely to be the route we go as it produces a more organised system and less clutter."


I guess I am not understanding what "less clutter" and "better organized" means if a category is full of irrelevant posts, to me that is the very definition of clutter and disorganization. Also, AppGameKit 1 and AppGameKit 2 are very different products which share some common commands. I'd say it's roughly like the difference between Photoshop Elements and Photoshop. Which, incidentally each have their own unique forums on Adobe's site even though they share some common functionality. Just my 0.02 cents.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 28th Aug 2015 05:48
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Quote: "Just my 0.02 cents."


Just saying

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Posted: 28th Aug 2015 08:25 Edited at: 28th Aug 2015 08:26
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Two one-hundredths of a penny... er yeah... that's totally what I meant...

I love my Altair 8800 Replica.

http://altairclone.com/
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Clonkex
Forum Vice President
13
Years of Service
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Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 28th Aug 2015 10:46 Edited at: 28th Aug 2015 10:49
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Here are my thoughts.

Quote: "Newcomers DBPro Corner - Merge with DarkBASIC Professional Discussion
AGK Pascal - Delete
Freedom Engine - Delete
Dark GDK.NET - Merge with Dark GDK
PureGDK - Delete
Website - Delete
The 20 Line Challenge - Merge with Code Snippets
FPS Creator X10 - Merge with FPSC Classic Product Chat
FPSC Classic Feature Creep - Delete
3 Dimensional Chat - Merge into new "Game Asset Creation" board
2D All the way - Merge into new "Game Asset Creation" board
Music & Sound FX - Merge into new "Game Asset Creation" board
3D Canvas Pro - Delete
Texture Maker - Delete
3D World Studio - Delete
ConvSEO & SketchUp - Delete
Program Announcements - Merge into new "Program Announcements & WIP Showcase"
Work in Progress - Merge into new "Program Announcements & WIP Showcase"
Puzzle Game Competition - Delete
NVIDIA Competition 2008 - Delete
Intel Competition - Delete
Bug Reports DBPro - Delete
FPSC Classic Bug Reports - Delete"


All of these changes ^^^ I'm fine with. I never like deleting stuff because it seems like a bit of history being deleted, but I have little interest in those boards anyway. Also, merging is 100% fine with me. We don't lose any threads and I don't really care which boards they're in (and the choices for the names are good IMO anyway).

Quote: "Newsletter - Delete
Game Design Theory - Delete
Programming Talk - Delete"


THESE changes ^^^ however are not great. Maybe Newsletter is fine - I haven't actually looked at the thread, it might be just rubbish - but the other two... there's a lot of threads in those ones. At least, a lot of potentially useful threads. What I suggest is simply making them read-only (archive them, effectively). That's standard practice for old forum boards. That way no information is lost but they're not contributing to fragmentation.

EDIT: Well if I'd finished reading the post, I would have seen you're not actually deleting any threads or posts. I can't stress enough how pleased I am to read that! Now I want to suggest that we have a link somewhere to be able to browse/view the old hidden boards so that we don't have to search to find posts


Placement Editor Professional -- Code Line Counter -- Tiled TMX Map Loader 2.0
Open Bezier Curve Library -- Image Tools -- MarbleX GUI Library -- NeoParticle -- Simple Serial
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BatVink
Moderator
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 28th Aug 2015 13:14
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Quote: "I guess I am not understanding what "less clutter" and "better organized" means if a category is full of irrelevant posts, to me that is the very definition of clutter and disorganization. Also, AppGameKit 1 and AppGameKit 2 are very different products which share some common commands. "


I'm hoping that this means you make your own, relevant list.

Today if I want to find a solution to an AGK2 Android problem, I have to look in 2 boards, and some of the threads will be irrelevant (AGK1). so there are 2 problems to solve.

If I can tick/untick boxes to filter the results I can start with a very specific Android search. Then by ticking another box I widen the search with AGK2 posts. And finally if I still don't have the answer I widen the search further by adding AppGameKit to the list. But all the time, I am looking at just one list, not multiple boards.

I see it more like buying a PC. You select ranges for your CPU, memory and disk size, and are presented with the suitable options.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
TutCity is being rebuilt
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The Next
Web Engineer
16
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Joined: 3rd Dec 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 28th Aug 2015 13:52
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Quote: "The Next, Will the page serving remain the same?"

No it will change, it will match the GameGuru forums if you want to see how that works.

Quote: "I guess I am not understanding what "less clutter" and "better organized" means if a category is full of irrelevant posts"

We are more interested in having less boards, that are better organised within, tagging threads should help that. AGKV2 is the current product and creating a new set of boards for the older AGKV1 doesn't seem to make sense for me when a lot of the advice for one applies to the other and the users can often help with both.

Quote: "Now I want to suggest that we have a link somewhere to be able to browse/view the old hidden boards so that we don't have to search to find posts "

An good idea, I will see what I can do, may not make it into the first version though.

Quote: "I see it more like buying a PC. You select ranges for your CPU, memory and disk size, and are presented with the suitable options."

That is how I see it as well, I would love a search system that works like that.

Windows 7 Pro, Intel i7 3.8 GHz, 16GB DDR3, NVIDIA GTX 780 4GB Superclocked
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MrValentine
AGK Backer
13
Years of Service
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Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 28th Aug 2015 18:06
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Quote: "No it will change, it will match the GameGuru forums if you want to see how that works."


Thanks, will go take a looksee...

I think you should change the word 'delete' to 'archive' or 'hidden' above as a lot of people think you actually mean 'destroy'...

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Battoad
AGK Developer
17
Years of Service
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Joined: 12th Feb 2007
Location: A Dark Place
Posted: 28th Aug 2015 18:10
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Quote: "I would love a search system that works like that."


This will be very dependent on how people title their new threads.
A mandatory subject list/tick box may be required as well as their question in order to avoid titles such as "Help required".

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MrValentine
AGK Backer
13
Years of Service
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Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 28th Aug 2015 19:02
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UMM where do I find the GG forums?

Also:

Quote: "Community Forums

We also have a community forum. We encourage you to sign up and become part of the community. We're actively developing the forums to make them easy to use, great for sharing and a place to collaborate together.

So sign in, and become part of the community!
"


Is a dead link...

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