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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / DBP under Windows Codename Longhorn Build 4074 - Screens inside

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David R
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Posted: 10th Apr 2005 06:28 Edited at: 10th Apr 2005 08:16
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Since its announcement, I have been very interested in Window Longhorn and its development. I was intruiged by its new feature and appearence, so I wanted to also [naturally] know how this would affect my DBP programs (will they still run?)

Well, a couple of days ago, I managed to [legally] acquire build 4074 of WinHEC Longhorn.

The First impressions were very good. Setup was fast, and the whole thing looked totally different.


Desktop in WinHEC longhorn build 4074

So, I immediately tried DBP editor, and to my relief it all seems to work.


DBP install menu

Next, I wanted to compile programs and see the appearence in general


Writing some code


Compiling

I was relieved to see a cool looking jade-themed window box, afetr 30 seconds of code writing. There was, however a single problem - mainly the black screen [eliminated after DBC] that appears before the program iniates. But this wasn't a problem


Hello World!

The Verdict

DBP

Intigration of DBP programs into the upcoming Windows Longhorn [June '06] looks relatively easy. Everything runs fine, and the windows are formatted correctly [with the Jade window commands].

One possible problem is the 'My Games' section. In Build 4074, the framework for 'Parental control of games' is layed. This system prevents games from running if they do not conform to ESRB [or other orginizations] digital signature. Yet, this problem is minor, and the My Games system could easily be implemented into your upcoming projects


My computer, now named just 'Computer'



Longhorn itslelf

Even as a preliminary realease, Longhorn isn't very impressive. It definately breaks the mould with its appearence as did Windows XP. Apart from that though, there isn't much to look at. I found no new features [apart from the sidebar, and other 'my games' and 'my contacts'] I would hate to see Longhorn end up like Windows Me [I know, its a tough thing to say] during mind the quantity of work going into it.

Other than that, DBP works fantastcially in it, so time your projects to be releaseed at the same time as Longhorn!

As a review, I hope this was useful

Lightning Studios

P:2.4ghz /HD: 120 GB/ GeForce FX 5600 128meg / WinHEC Longhorn Build 4074
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Kentaree
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Posted: 10th Apr 2005 06:37
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It does look very nice, what was the general speed like, especially of File IO? (with regards to the new WinFS)

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Laptop: AMD Athlon 64M 3000+,Mobility Radeon 9700 128MB, 512MB DDR RAM
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David R
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Posted: 10th Apr 2005 06:44
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Sadly, I didn't get to experience WinFS [Stupid me] because I chose a partition to install to that was already formatted in NTFS, so it kept NTFS. Generally, [without WINFS] the system was running a tad slower than usual [My Pc isn't terribly fast, but still].

Using the new visual features seems to hog alot of CPU time, especially when browsing through folders [folders are sort-of 3d, and contain picture thumbnails on them]. File commands (like copying etc.) seem to be ALOT faster (in comparison to my XP install) even without WINFS.

P:2.4ghz /HD: 120 GB/ GeForce FX 5600 128meg / WinHEC Longhorn Build 4074
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BatVink
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Posted: 10th Apr 2005 07:51
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At a glance (and I've never seen screenies of Longhorn before) it just looks like more space is wasted on dormant parts of applications, like title bars. In the last screenie, for example, what is that waste of space in the dark grey area, both down the side of the desktop and across the top of the open window. You've lost 25% of your screen to nothing!

BatVink
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 10th Apr 2005 07:53
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It would have been okay if all the security bits were in the release version...

I would expect the release version to be rather faster than the beta...

At least DBPro works - now, will Visual Studio 2003 and/or VS 6 work on it?

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dj blackdragon3710
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Posted: 10th Apr 2005 08:26 Edited at: 10th Apr 2005 08:29
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forget this post.....

It has been said that the body is a slave to the mind. Only the mind knows no freedom.
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David R
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Posted: 10th Apr 2005 21:37
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Quote: "Forget this post"
- what the heck does that mean? (why did you say that?)

P:2.4ghz /HD: 120 GB/ GeForce FX 5600 128meg / WinHEC Longhorn Build 4074
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Baggers
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Posted: 11th Apr 2005 03:46
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Maybe he didnt mean to post here, removed it and didnt want idiots asking why there was a blank post by him...
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David R
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Posted: 11th Apr 2005 05:44
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Thanks Baggers

P:2.4ghz /HD: 120 GB/ GeForce FX 5600 128meg / WinHECLonghorn

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PowerSoft
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Posted: 11th Apr 2005 06:01
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how you get hold of it

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Cryptoman
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Posted: 11th Apr 2005 11:51
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That sidebar app has a large memory leak in 4074. If you want to use the test operating system for more than an hour or so you should disable it or you'll be running off your harddrive.


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Tapewormz
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Posted: 11th Apr 2005 15:09
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Aren't you breaking microsofts eula by posting screenshots of their beta product?

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karzac
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Posted: 11th Apr 2005 21:58
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i like the new clock

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 12th Apr 2005 00:07
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Quote: "Aren't you breaking microsofts eula by posting screenshots of their beta product?"


There are plenty more screenshots on the web.

More tea Vicar?
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Baggers
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Posted: 12th Apr 2005 01:03
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@lightning studios: sorry i must have been in a weird mood the other night, my answer sound a little harsh hope i didnt offend !
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David R
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Posted: 12th Apr 2005 01:31 Edited at: 30th Apr 2005 02:16
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@Powersoft: MSDN.com. I payed a subscription fee (can't remeber how much) then I quit the subscription after download (which took about 2/3 hours @ 724MB)

Quote: "That sidebar app has a large memory leak in 4074. If you want to use the test operating system for more than an hour or so you should disable it or you'll be running off your harddrive"


Thanks. That could explain alot (very slow performance etc. throughout)

Quote: " Aren't you breaking microsofts eula by posting screenshots of their beta product?"


Not meaning to be agressive toward you, but: When are Micro$oft ever going to look at this forum? Why should they care? Why do they provide the EULA in such small print? I should be able to do what-ever the hell I like with it!

@Baggers: Hey, I don't mind. It wasn't offensive or anything, but it sounded a tad agressive. Its cool.

[url=www.lightningstudios.co.uk][/url]
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Ian T
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Posted: 12th Apr 2005 01:35
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WinFS has been cancelled for Longhorn, so how would he be able to test it


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David R
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Posted: 12th Apr 2005 02:00
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Build 4074 is old, so it still had a prototype of WinFS in it. As I described earlier though, I installed onto NTFS (silly me)

P:2.4ghz /HD: 120 GB/ GeForce FX 5600 128meg / WinHECLonghorn

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David R
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Posted: 12th Apr 2005 22:08
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Keeping this post to the top, so more people can see it....

P:2.4ghz /HD: 120 GB/ GeForce FX 5600 128meg / WinHECLonghorn

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Phaelax
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Posted: 13th Apr 2005 07:17
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What the heck is that huge ugly side bar on the right?
And like 30% of your screen is wasted by that "my computer" title bar, what the heck is that? MS might have decent programmers, but they sure as hell can't design worth a crap!

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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 13th Apr 2005 08:04 Edited at: 13th Apr 2005 08:06
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Quote: " What the heck is that huge ugly side bar on the right?
And like 30% of your screen is wasted by that "my computer" title bar, what the heck is that? MS might have decent programmers, but they sure as hell can't design worth a crap!
"


I seem to like it alot from the screenshots....i like that design.

Microsoft is SLOWLY getting better with their products in my opinion.
Now Microsoft needs to make a completely open source OS, just for the hell of it. OR a completely app developer OS, something COMPLETELY different from Windows. Start from scratch. Sure it would cost alot of money time...but i think there would be quite a few people who would like something along those lines
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dj blackdragon3710
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Posted: 13th Apr 2005 08:55
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My question had been answered. That's all there is to it.

It has been said that the body is a slave to the mind. Only the mind knows no freedom.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 13th Apr 2005 09:29
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Quote: "Now Microsoft needs to make a completely open source OS, just for the hell of it"

I don't think they would want to waste such money on something just for the hell of it.


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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 13th Apr 2005 09:55
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Quote: "I don't think they would want to waste such money on something just for the hell of it."

WASTE money? Well, If its under $500,000,000 then I think Mr. Gates could probably front the money for it. Make it a huge publicity thing or something
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fasdfsdaf
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Posted: 13th Apr 2005 10:06
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(sorry if already said)

Will our games be affected? Does the "My Games" have parental control for non-rated games?

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Gen
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Posted: 13th Apr 2005 11:28
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Quote: "I don't think they would want to waste such money on something just for the hell of it."


I agree, Bill Gate$ i$ Greedy...

would still be nice though, just a simple one.

Soon to come... Dark IDE, New IDE for DarkBASIC Pro!
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David R
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Posted: 14th Apr 2005 22:08 Edited at: 14th Apr 2005 22:11
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After this comes 'Blackcombe' apparently. Also, I would like to remind people (that even though I didnt like this release) how different the priliminary of Windows 'Whistler' was compared to the final Windows XP. So I could be wrong on my judgement...

Quote: "Will our games be affected? Does the "My Games" have parental control for non-rated games?
"


I'm not certain. The parental controls isn't fully implemented yet (and is mainly just a sub-functioning place-holder) so anything ould happen between now and June '06

[url=www.lightningstudios.co.uk][/url]
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David R
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Posted: 19th Apr 2005 22:34
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Revivng the thread..

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Phaelax
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Posted: 20th Apr 2005 04:14
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Quote: "I don't think they would want to waste such money on something just for the hell of it."

Ummm, Xbox?

Quote: "Microsoft is SLOWLY getting better with their products in my opinion.
"

The stability and functionality maybe, but their interface designers get worse with each OS they release. Mac OS X is way cooler, more stable, and Tiger coming out soon has some really cool special effects. I'm buying a mac as soon as i got the money.

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David R
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Posted: 24th Apr 2005 21:49
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Thread revival!

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Raven
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Posted: 24th Apr 2005 22:56
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Quote: "Aren't you breaking microsofts eula by posting screenshots of their beta product?"


Yes, unless he is an authorised press member.

Quote: "WinFS has been cancelled for Longhorn."


Bulls**t.

Quote: "MSDN.com. I payed a subscription fee (can't remeber how much) then I quit the subscription after download (which took about 2/3 hours @ 724MB)"


Bulls**t. Microsoft Developer Network Subscriber fees for the Beta section start at $3,200. Furthermore Microsoft only put up the most current built in the Beta area, forcing you to upgrade when a new Beta is released.

Quote: "Well, a couple of days ago, I managed to [legally] acquire build 4074 of WinHEC Longhorn."


It's only a mear coincidence that the version you have is no longer available on MSDN Beta, and happens to be the version that is doing the rounds on Bit Torrent / Kazaa / eMule?

I'm not against people stealing the Microsoft Longhorn Beta, in-fact niether is Microsoft because they're the ones who 'leak' the old builds. The do this because Beta Microsoft only really get business's and as such there is no way to publically test something on a real-world conditions.

Microsoft Beta products are full of spyware that is constantly sending information back to thier systems. It's legal spyware, becuase if you read the EULA (which you apparently didn't) it clearly says you provide Microsoft the right to take annoymously take information about the normal running of thier Beta product in order to provide a better service.

They do sometimes exercise thier rights and just cut off people's activation. (yes people they can do this EVEN if you do crack the software)

As was said above, the beta Whilster (XP) is quite a different animal to what was released. Also actually different from the official Beta, as most business' were able to try out.

Something of interest though. WinFX designed for Windows 'Longhorn' actually currently works better on Windows XP. Heh
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Lukas W
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Posted: 27th Apr 2005 04:32
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raven, you know to much (no offence)

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Jimmy
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Posted: 27th Apr 2005 04:36
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April FOOLS!!!!!11


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empty
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Posted: 27th Apr 2005 05:11
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Quote: " WinFS has been cancelled for Longhorn, so how would he be able to test it "

At least WinFS is not a feature that will come with Longhorn.


Play Nice! Play Basic! Version 1.06
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David R
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Posted: 27th Apr 2005 05:42
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Quote: "
Bulls**t. Microsoft Developer Network Subscriber fees for the Beta section start at $3,200. Furthermore Microsoft only put up the most current built in the Beta area, forcing you to upgrade when a new Beta is released."


Ok, you got me there. *Sobs* I dont want to be known as a liar here (because Im not) but I didnt believe it was in my best interests to go around saying 'I got this off bit-torrent!'. One thing though:
Quote: " forcing you to upgrade when a new Beta is released."
is not entirely true ; the MSDN site allows you to download 'back-copies' of Lonhorn

Just one more thing;
Quote: "Microsoft Beta products are full of spyware that is constantly sending information back to thier systems. It's legal spyware"

This is purposely why I didnt use it to connect to the internet

One thing I'm curious of though:

Quote: "They do sometimes exercise thier rights and just cut off people's activation. (yes people they can do this EVEN if you do crack the software)"
How can they cut-off activation if you crack it? (and thats what I did - crack the activation at least, although theres still a 360-day time bomb)

[url=www.lightningstudios.co.uk][/url]
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Swhale aka The FPS Creator
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Posted: 27th Apr 2005 08:17
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what site exactly did you get the "BETA" then, if microsoft isnt checking these forums...

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Terabyte
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Posted: 27th Apr 2005 09:36
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i have to agree, i'm loving the side bar
will go so well with our 45" plasma screens.


and what does winFS hope to achieve? or rather what did it hope

Dark Days Software
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 27th Apr 2005 14:29
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Are INI files still availiable in Longhorn ?

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Jedive
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Posted: 27th Apr 2005 17:43 Edited at: 27th Apr 2005 17:43
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Quote: "Well, a couple of days ago, I managed to [legally] acquire build 4074 of WinHEC Longhorn."
And if you acquired it legally, are you sure that the EULA allows you to post screenshots of it?

== Jedive ==
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David R
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Posted: 27th Apr 2005 22:16
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No, the EULA doesnt allow me to post screenshots, but then again:
http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=longhorn&hl=en

Quote: "Are INI files still availiable in Longhorn ?
"


Im unsure. As far as I know, yes; but I recently removed Longhorn (yesterday, because the install overwrote the GRUB bootloader, so I havent been able to get into Red hat for the last month or so - damn Micro$oft!)

Quote: "what site exactly did you get the "BETA" then, if microsoft isnt checking these forums...
"

Not sure exactly what you mean.... Unless.... Your a Microsoft Employee... Ok Im degressing here. Re-Explain your question fully
(I got LongHorn from BitTorrent, but as far as I know, its a leak, so its still legal)

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 27th Apr 2005 23:59
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Quote: "Im unsure. As far as I know, yes"

Fair enough.

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Jimmy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2005 02:23
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Quote: "Ok Im degressing here."


Please... keep your clothes on.


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Phaelax
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Posted: 28th Apr 2005 10:31
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Anyone else read Slashdot today? Apparently, MS is going around and demanding everyone remove any longhorn screenshots.

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Cryptoman
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Posted: 28th Apr 2005 13:31
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Lol, they can demand all they want, they shouldn't release something if they don't want pictures of it around. Who pays attention to MS Eulas anyways. MS is all about bullyism, which will be their downfall someday.


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Raven
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Posted: 28th Apr 2005 21:14
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Quote: "is not entirely true ; the MSDN site allows you to download 'back-copies' of Lonhorn "


No... It doesn't. You can ONLY download the lastest build.
Microsoft update the build on a weekly (sometimes bi-weekly) basis, and while you can download via update v5 to update changes, Microsoft recommend that you download and reinstall each build you wish to try.

Quote: "This is purposely why I didnt use it to connect to the internet "


Unless you uninstalled (then reformatted *VERY IMPORTANT PART*) then Microsoft can still spy on what your computer is doing.
It's all done mostly via a computer engine anyways, taking down the information... but it's likely that if you do some really interesting stuff that is unusual you will get the direct attention of one of thier engineers.

Quote: "Not sure exactly what you mean.... Unless.... Your a Microsoft Employee... Ok Im degressing here. Re-Explain your question fully
(I got LongHorn from BitTorrent, but as far as I know, its a leak, so its still legal)"


No.. erm I don't think you understand. Leaked software IS NOT LEGAL. Unless Microsoft have changed a number of lines from the EULA that specifically allow only the MSDN Subscriber to use the software using thier .NET Passport.

And also yes... some of us are Microsoft Employees.
Not like I care though, not like anyone from the OS Division will care much.

That said, it is still illegal. To have downloaded it in the first place, but to further go on to break the NDA section of the EULA.

I doubt people mind, but to be honest.. this build is from a year ago. It is extremely old, and not a valid test build anymore.

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David R
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Posted: 30th Apr 2005 02:22
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Wait a sec... Raven, in your previous post:
Quote: "Quote: "WinFS has been cancelled for Longhorn."

Bulls**t.
"


Assuming you meant bulls**t as in 'thats a load of rubbish' then your wrong:
Quote: "'Microsoft was forced to make a descision, seeing the WinFS section of its project pull Longhorn back into 2007.....

.....WinFS will be dropped from the Longhorn 2006 to meet a separate shipping date in 2007"


This information is definately correct, since it contained an interview tih Jim Allchin! (Presidnet of Platforms @ Micro$oft)

[Source: PCLUS issue 222 Nov' 04 ]

[url=www.lightningstudios.co.uk][/url]
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Raven
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Posted: 30th Apr 2005 02:48
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Quote: ".....WinFS will be dropped from the Longhorn 2006 to meet a separate shipping date in 2007"


What is quite odd about that sentence (and the interview in the whole to be more precise), is the fact that they're saying Longhorn 2006 but shipping date of 2007.

The shipping date for Longhorn 2006 is set for not surprisingly, in Q3 2006, WinFS is not *likely* to ship with this first version aimed at home users. Windows 6.0 Professional set for Q2 2007 however *WILL* have WinFS.

There is a chance that it might be in the final release for the Home Edition. It certainly as hell is still in the Beta.

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David R
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Posted: 30th Apr 2005 03:35 Edited at: 30th Apr 2005 03:36
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I think what this means is that is will be shipped as a stand-alone product, or a range of Windows LH in 2007

Technically speaking, its not an interview (just a couple of sentences) but its the same thing

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Raven
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Posted: 30th Apr 2005 03:39
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Well, I've been directed to the article on Slashdot.org before about this.. yet the Microsoft Developer Network and the Beta Network both haven't mentioned nor dropped the features.

Focus has shifted to WinFX over the past few months, but in all honestly I think that someone is just covering all of the bases.
Given the current Beta is in a relatively stable state, I don't see that they can't fix it within the next couple of months.

The statement actually was released around the time they were taking people off of Longhorn in order to get Service Pack 2 out the door. So that is probably the likely culprit.

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David R
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Joined: 9th Sep 2003
Location: 3.14
Posted: 30th Apr 2005 03:50
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What exactly does WinFX do exactly? I've heard alot about, but nothing about what it does!

[url=www.lightningstudios.co.uk][/url]
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