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3 Dimensional Chat / [LOCKED] Square Enix's Methods (Screenshots inside)

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Oddmind
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2005 22:49 Edited at: 25th Nov 2005 20:58
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We've all been wondering ever since we played our first Final Fantasy, or what have you, about how square goes about making their models. Below is a list of screenshots of things i thought were very educational to the 3d Modeller, Animator, Character Designer or texture artist. These shots below are from my computer and display several varieties of methods square uses from alpha mapping, to alpha mapping... to geometry ect .

HAHA MIlKSHAPE SCREENY ADDED!!

This shot shows the Battle and overworld tidus's Geometry and facial layout.



This shot below shows
1. The structure and layout of the bones (over 200 joints)
2. Thats the winning anim for tidus. This is how you could achieve a character throwing a boomerang and catching it or what have you. Notice there is 2 joints on the end of the main sword joint.
3. How did Auron get his arm out? HES GOT 2!!! hahaha



Shot below captures some excellent alpha mapping techniques used in Wakka's and Yuna's hair...Among just about everything else in the game. None the less, these are good examples.



The shot below shows a big boo boo that was never seen in game due to the camera placement. naughty square!! Also it shows the techniques used to make Bahamut . Hes cool...



This shot shows another booboo also never seen because of the game camera angle. To the right are some weapons from the game disc... Im fairly certain you dont get to use the buster sword in game, but it was in the same place in the FFX-2 disc. The weapons are really detailed but still are only a few hundred poly's if that much.



Who remembers this kid? This is how one would achieve the "hooded" effect. Look at the detail, then look at the geometry! Amazing!!



The last shot is just some random objects from the game. Some i dont remember seeing -_-... Anywho, look for these things next time you play through the game.



You guys are gonna kill me now . MILKSHAPE SCREENY! This babys goin in DBPro!!



These are all for now because i couldn't think of any more. I am taking requests though, so just name a model from either game (FFX or FFX-2) and i can give you wireframes smooth shaded textured animated ect... I can not however, distribute the models. I am using them strictly for educational purposes...right now...
post requests below .

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Jake Blues
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2005 22:58 Edited at: 23rd Nov 2005 22:58
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1.Where the h*** did you get those models?

2.Textures are what make the models, which is what I thought in the first place.


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Insanity Complex
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2005 22:59
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Nice

[Previously known as DBPro Newbie]
Sword Pack done! http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=64714&b=3
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Oddmind
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2005 23:14 Edited at: 23rd Nov 2005 23:14
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Any requests? And neo dragon...I got them off the disc haha.

Yes, they are very leniant when it comes to adding extra poly's on the aeons. But the characters are done so well, it makes me want to crap my pants!

woops forgot to add last shot in...

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Insanity Complex
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2005 23:29
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how do you get them off the disk?

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Jonny Ree
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2005 23:41
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Thanks for shareing, though sharing the actual models would be of even more help. And perhaps sharing how you went about ripping them off the disk.


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BenDstraw
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2005 23:41
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I didnt really learn anything from this except square has awesome modelers.

"Save the whales harpon a fat chick"
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Jonny Ree
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2005 23:52
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http://82.228.131.187/ffxview.php

you can learn quite a lot in any case.. if you look at how joints work.. and how to best make joints bend as you would want them.


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Oddmind
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Posted: 24th Nov 2005 01:53 Edited at: 24th Nov 2005 01:57
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There is several ways to rip them... you can either download them from the below links (ther about 100 megs each zipped)

or you can use a DVD decrypter and make an ISO file, as if you were going to play it as a ROM. If you use the ISO file, you then drag it into the "FFXDumper" tool which im pretty sure comes in the package above that johnny linked us to, it will then make a batch of files in your "documents and settingsusername" folder. They will be labeled like "0000.ffb" or something. Drag these into the FFXViewer in the pack above and you will then be able to view the models. There is an FFB to OBJ converter, i forget where it is...

read both of these threads and you will be able to get all of th tools available for this thing. I just didnt know how TGC would feel about me pirating squares models, but yea...thats how you do it. The viewer works for FFX and FFX-2

http://boards.polycount.net/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=77520&page=&fpart=1&vc=1

http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=67958

I haven't been able to find the ones i converted to OBJ yet...i had to ask which directory they go to.

EDIT: Ahh i see Yaz0rs blog is up again... Legal issues must be taken care of .

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Jake Blues
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Posted: 24th Nov 2005 02:21
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Now all is as clear as the a pool of spilled oil


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Oddmind
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Posted: 24th Nov 2005 02:56 Edited at: 24th Nov 2005 03:00
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ok here goes...

The easy way to do this is here.

donwload this.
http://www.yukihime.com/board/ffxview.zip

It is a model viewer. It views FFB models. Final fantasy models are FFB models. With me so far? good

You now download these.

FFX models in FFB
http://www.squarecn.com/ff/downloadshow.asp?ID=2851

FFX-2 models in FFB
http://www.squarecn.com/ff/downloadshow.asp?ID=2852

look at the bottom of each page for an icon like this

Right click that and select save target as... each package is about 100 megabytes....

After you have downloaded all of the above, unzip each into its own directory. Drag on of the FFB files from the chinese site, on top of the "FFXViewer.exe" icon, and the viewer will pop up for you. You are now viewing an FFX FFB model. Congradulations!

EDIT: If this is not clear, I feel as my sig says... If you dont get it, go ahead and ask... But afterwards, just go back to banging your head against the wall. After you look at the models of course

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yaz0r
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Posted: 24th Nov 2005 10:21
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Nope, no legal issues, I just messed up my DNS config
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yaz0r
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Posted: 24th Nov 2005 10:25
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Also, keep in mind that I don't emulate FFX physic engine. This is mostly the problem with Yojimbo cape and a lot of other models.
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Manic
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Posted: 24th Nov 2005 16:00
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i think the best thing for people to take away from this is the fact that even professional modellers don't get everything right all the time, so not to feel too bad if things don't look too hot

there was a pretty interesting thread on polycount about that actually... i'll see if i can dig it up

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Oddmind
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Posted: 24th Nov 2005 16:22
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hey Yaz0r , you seem to be everywhere hahaha. I had just heard that your site got shut down from one of the other forums talking about your awesome viewer. Thanks so much .

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David iz cool
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Posted: 25th Nov 2005 16:20
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i like your characters in the last screen,bottom left.

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Oddmind
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Posted: 25th Nov 2005 18:33
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manic it was in my post...
Yea folks this is a great tool and opportunity to get better at planning out/modelling/skinning/boning and animating your characters.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Nov 2005 00:45
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Lol, I can't get the model viewer to run, it appears in the processes thing on the task manager and diappears after a few seconds and doesn't acutallly load the program

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Gowmars
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Posted: 26th Nov 2005 03:34
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Quote: "Lol, I can't get the model viewer to run, it appears in the processes thing on the task manager and diappears after a few seconds and doesn't acutallly load the program"


In order to get the viewer to work what you must do is take the model you want to view and drag it to the FFXView.exe file. then it will open and load the model.


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Gowmars
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Posted: 26th Nov 2005 03:35
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I'm at work right now so I don’t have any of my 3d modeling programs available right now, but does anyone know if these can be loaded/imported in to 3ds Max or Maya?


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Oddmind
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Posted: 26th Nov 2005 05:00
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you have to get the FFB2OBJ model converter thats not made by yaz0r. Apparently its not on the makers site any more. I dont know where to get it. But yes the OBJ files can be imported. Check out my thread in geek culture to see a video. Or rather here...

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Gowmars
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Posted: 26th Nov 2005 05:31 Edited at: 26th Nov 2005 05:31
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ok ill search online for it. If anyone can find it PLEASE post a link, and if I find it ill post it.


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Gowmars
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Posted: 26th Nov 2005 07:16
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Oddmind if you have it and are in a good mood you can email it to me lol. mars_gow_@hotmail.com


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JimB
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Posted: 26th Nov 2005 08:55
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The tools can be found here
http://dl6.rapidshare.de/files/5465618/103595922/FFX___FFX-2_Models_Tools.rar


I searched Google and found the above link on this forum
http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=67958
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Gowmars
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Posted: 26th Nov 2005 09:16
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awsome it worked!!! thanks alot JimB

I actually came across that forum, just didnt read far enough down.


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Manic
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Posted: 26th Nov 2005 16:39
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@oddmind: i was talking about another thread where someone had posted a load of pictures of problems and mistakes in real game art

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Oddmind
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Posted: 26th Nov 2005 18:55
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ooohh ok i see. Well i got the link off of one of the forums but i tried it again and got 404'ed. that was the only place i could find them at. Anywho, have fun... dont get caught ...

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Sephnroth
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Posted: 26th Nov 2005 23:00
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I wonder if the characters etc were done modeling from primitives or vert by vert? Theres tons of white papers and books from software houses on their programming techniques, algorithms and infrastructures but I rarely see anything from the art/design side talking about the process they went through for creating their media etc, its a shame really.


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JimB
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Posted: 26th Nov 2005 23:20 Edited at: 26th Nov 2005 23:21
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I understand that they used Metasequoia 3d to make the models,they do seem to have the Metasequoia bright pinkish mauve wires.
http://www21.ocn.ne.jp/~mizno/main_e.html
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Oddmind
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Posted: 26th Nov 2005 23:46
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dang...why would they use that if they could afford like maya or 3DS Max or something?

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JimB
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Posted: 27th Nov 2005 00:18 Edited at: 27th Nov 2005 00:20
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See the last sentance in this write up for Cyberdelia.
http://www.download.com/Cyberdelia/3000-2186_4-10169778.html

Just goes to show the most expensive software is'nt always used.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Nov 2005 00:21
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They prolly used 3DS Max, plus what the models are being shown through isn't the editor where the models where made, is a model viewer made to view the FFX models format.

Most industries use 3DS Max, Maya, Cinema 4D, Lightwave and Houdini, Houdini, C4D and Maya (dunno about LW) are usually used for the movie industry. (Like C4D for Gladiator and Polar express, Pixar for maya etc) These rich companies to not cheap down to cheap programs that lack tool amounts, plus most gaming 3D modelling employers require you to have knowledge in 3DS Max and/or Maya, and maybe soon ZBrush(with the new generations graphics)

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JimB
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Posted: 27th Nov 2005 00:29
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Hey Seppuku
Did you not read the article in the link above?
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Gowmars
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 01:38 Edited at: 28th Nov 2005 03:34
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bleh I'm still having trouble loading the models into 3ds max. I converted it into an obj file. is there a way to load an obj file into 3ds max? cause i got a converter program to convert if from an obj to a 3ds but its not loading right. It doen't load with any textures or animation. Am I doing something wrong? I have access to maya too, if anyone knows of a way to do it using that instead.


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Sephnroth
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 01:53
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not convinced the converter retains animation, i know when i import the .obj in milkshape there arnt even any bones. Dunno if thats because of the ffx->obj exporter or milkshapes obj importer. Infact I dont know if the .obj format even supports bones/animation


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Gowmars
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 03:35 Edited at: 28th Nov 2005 03:42
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does milkshape at least load the texutres?

and OddMind for that binary walk video, did you have to do the animtion yourself. did you use milkshape to do it?


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Oddmind
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 05:56
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it doesnt export with the animations, milkshape imports the textures though. I used some CFX file from psionics tut and slapped him in without really fixing it up...

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Gowmars
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 06:27
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How about when you loaded it into DB. did you use .x or .3ds. does milkshape have the means to export it to .x or did you have to use a converter program?


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Sephnroth
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 13:51
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I had textures working fine in milkshape - though the models start too large and shrinking them manually causes problems with some of the faces, my solution was go to use the Scale All plugin to scale to about 5% or less, switch it to flatshaded mode and then back to textured and everything turned out fine.

milkshape cna convert to .x as well as alot of other formats. Never use .3ds in db, its just a bad idea.


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Cian Rice
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 20:35
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<_< @JimB just because you read something on the internet doesn't mean its true. >_>

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JimB
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 20:41
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@Cian teh Animeblood
Quote: "<_< @JimB just because you read something on the internet doesn't mean its true. >_>"


It also does'nt mean because its on the net that its not true.
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Oddmind
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 22:16
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3ds doesnt even support animations doofus... , i used md2 because none of my direct x exports worked in DB. Ive always had this problem. just for the sake of having one of squares models in dbpro...

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Krimzon DestinE
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 02:09
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Quote: "2.Textures are what make the models, which is what I thought in the first place."


yep, the models have to look good but be able to move and react in the game as fast as possible. complex texturing is the way to go.
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Oddmind
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Posted: 1st Dec 2005 23:16
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Sweet, this is in the newsletter . Thanks guys! Ill be posting some more screenshots in a bit...

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Seppuku Arts
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Not the only thread off of 3Dchat in the newsletter, woot! Congrats dude

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Joh
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2005 19:03
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Sweet. Good reference.

Just want to correct something. 3ds does support animation. Jointed/Hierarchical keyframed animation. It does not support mesh deformation (skinned/boned) animation.
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Oddmind
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2005 20:57
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Ok so you can use 3d canvas and export animations to 3ds? I think 3dc is jointed heiarchial... If so that might be something ill look into, but still not with DBPro. 3ds isnt my favourite format for game projects.

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Mr Underhill
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Posted: 8th Dec 2005 07:47 Edited at: 8th Dec 2005 07:50
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This is awesome! Never thought little old milkshape could display FFX models so well.
It makes one wonder if there's a way to rip models from other Square games like Kingdom Hearts. Has anyone done research on that?

Modelling apps are like spaghetti: the only way to find the good stuff is to throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. ~Me
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Mr Underhill
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Posted: 9th Dec 2005 04:43
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Nygah! Why is it that every time I post on a good thread, it simultaneously dies?

Modelling apps are like spaghetti: the only way to find the good stuff is to throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. ~Me
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Oddmind
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Well you didnt really read the whole thing i guess... but yes Yaz0r has made a KH viewer and will release it after KHII comes out. Yea it is pretty cool, im gonna pull em back out in a bit...

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