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===UPDATED SEPT 25TH, 2003===
Extra notes added later are just for extra info, they are not part of the original document, so use them at your own risk!
The original document was tested thoroughly and the extra notes have only been added to this text to provide extra or more complete info, sometimes even adding new steps to the document.

The aim is to put all the tips and workarounds into one thread so people won't have to browse all over the forum to read about BSPs and DBP and prevent users from asking the same questions over and over again.

So let's start the thread with the following:
-What tools are best used in combination with DBP to create BSP maps?
-What BSP compile tools work correctly with DBP?
-How and what do you need to do in order to make textures appear on your maps?
-A simple to read *WORKING* short guide to show step by step instructions on how to get BSPs working in DBP?

Furthermore it would be nice if people put their findings about problems or other BSP related stuff in here so it'll become an extensive database on BSPs and DBP. If there's enough info in here I will create a FAQ available for download or maybe even a website.

So show us your best shot and contribute to the BSP issue!

********************************************************************

Here follows the Quick Guide for the Valve Hammer Editor!

ATTENTION: THE 'SLASH'-ISSUE OF THE OLD FORUM IS NOT PRESENT AT THIS FORUM, THEREFORE ALL DIRECTORY INDICATIONS IN THIS DOCUMENT ARE CORRECT AGAIN.
-------------------------------------------------------------
BSP QUICK REFERENCE GUIDE PART 1: USING VALVE HAMMER EDITOR
-------------------------------------------------------------
-First be sure to get the Valve Hammer Editor here:
http://collective.valve-erc.com/index.php?go=hammer

-Also make sure you get the Zoner's Halflife Compiler Tools here:
http://collective.valve-erc.com/index.php?go=mhlt

Although Hammer comes with its own compile tools it's recommended to use the Zoner's tools instead.

Extra note by CattleRustler: #1A GET ZONER HL TOOLS - LATEST FGD - HALFLIFE.WAD
Get Zoner HL Tools like instructed and unzip to tools directory. These exe's replace the Q...exe's which have problems. If you have halflife the game, find the HALFLIFE.WAD file and COPY it to the TOOLS directory under your VHE install, where you unzipped the zoner tools. Find online the latest FGD file HALFLIFE_3X.FGD (sorry I don't remember where-I found it in my journeys) and put it in the FGD Directory

-And for Texturing purposes get Wally here:
http://www.telefragged.com/wally

-Install Valve Hammer Editor and after the installation Unzip the Zoner's Tools in the ValveTools directory.

Extra note by CattleRustler: #1 Re: VHE3.4 INSTALL
After you download VHE34 DO NOT install to the default directory that it attempts - The compiler will blow up on BSP creation and in File Copy operation due to Long File Name issues with vhe RUN compiler, regardless of the checkbox in the run options that says "use long file names". I made a D:VHE34 directory to install the app to, and a D:VHEMAPS to send my compiled bsp files to. Remember 8 characters or less for the dirs and the files you create when using VHE.

-Now start Hammer to prepare the editor for use;
* Select 'Options' in the 'Tools" Drop-Down list if it doesn't pop up the first instance Valve Hammer is run or you already used the editor for other reasons.

* Select the 'Game Configurations' Tab and press the 'Edit' button.

* Press 'Add' in the window that pops up and type 'DarkBASIC Pro' or whatever you want to name the theme.

* Leave all other options untouched at this tab except the RMF box which should point at the 'ValveMaps' directory and select the 'Build Programs' tab.

Extra note by CattleRustler: #2 THE RMF FILE DESTINATION
The RMF box should point to your maps directory under your install directory. This is NOT the same as to where you will put your Compiled bsp files.

* Your theme should be preselected, if not, select it from the combo box now and in each box below it select the corresponding Zoner's Compile Tool (if you followed this guide they should be located in the ValveTools directory). Leave the game executable open for now.

* In the 'Place Compiled Maps in This Dir(...)' box select the directory in which you want to place the compiled maps. Choose a convenient directory in which you can find them fast, preferably your working directory of your project in DBP or the 'ValveMaps' directory.

Extra note by CattleRustler: #3 THE COMPILED MAPS DESTINATION
This is the location for the output files. See my advice in step 1 and remember no long dir names.

* Select the 'Textures' tab and define (a) texture file(s) to use with your map (you can create your own texture WAD files using Wally or you can use other WAD files from games (mind the royalty thing here)).

If you don't have any WAD files present you should create one or find one (maybe from a game) before editing a map and then be sure to select them in this Tab.

Extra note by CattleRustler: #5 CMD AND PARAM SWITCHES for RUN/EXPERT
Your RUN/EXPERT screen needs a total of 6 entries that you create in the list. BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING that the instructions say, click the combo drop down list and select HALFLIFE(FULL) instead of your named DBPro(or whatever you named it) You'll see 7 entries. You need exactly the first six in your dbp setup. Unfortunately you can't just copy em over but there is still an easy way.

-Go into your DB set up in this RUN/EXPERT screen and follow the instructions I've been referring to to make the csg,bsp,vis,light commands but ignore placing params for now - DO NOT COPY PASTE FROM INSTRUCTIONS AS SLASHES ARE OMMITTED! You should now have 4 entries with no params. Switch back to HL(full) and select the first list item, on the right side of window copy from PARAM text box, switch back to your dbp setup, paste the params from hl into your params for your first four items (they are all the same).
Now make 2 Copy File Commands leaving the params blank. switch to HL(full) again get params from first Copy File Command and paste into your FIRST Copy File Command, Now go back to HL and get params for SECOND Copy File Command, switch back to your DB setup and Paste into your SECOND Copy File Params....check all 6 check boxes on and your done. Click GO to save the settings. Don't worry if it fails as you may not have you world ready to be compiled.

The following part needs to be followed carefully and might seem a little difficult at first. However, if you read through the steps at a slow pace and take your time following every step one at a time you will be fine! Look at the bottom of the steps at the Extra notes for an alternative if you still find the original explanation too difficult. If you do, please remember the warning message at the beginning of this tutorial.

-Finally we will have to configure the compiler section of Hammer to ignore the fact that we do not have HalfLife and only want to compile a map, nothing more.
This could be tricky and I suggest you read this section carefully.
In order to open the 'Run' command we will need to have a map loaded.

-So create a simple Box and then select 'Run' from the 'File' dropdown list.
1) Open the 'Expert' mode by pressing on the button at the bottom.

2) Now we need to define a DarkBASIC Pro configuration, so press 'Edit' at the top of the window and then 'New' to add a new configuration. Name it DarkBASIC Pro. Close this window.

3) Now select 'DarkBASIC Pro' from the 'Configurations:' combo list if it is not already selected.

4) Press the 'New' buttom below the 'Edit' button to define a new operation. A checkbox will apear.

5) Now press the 'Cmds' button at the right top of the window and select 'CSG Program'.

6) Press the 'Parms' button below the 'Cmds' button and select 'Map Path (no filename)'. Click behind '$path' which just apeared and press the Backslash-key on your keyboard so the line reads: '$path' (without the ' ). Now press the 'Parms' button again and select 'Map Filename (no extension)'. The line should read '$path$file' now (again without the ' ).

7) Perform the above steps 4-6 for the BSP, VIS and LIGHT commands also.

8) Copy the following to your clipboard (rightclick on it and select 'Copy'):

$path$file.bsp $bspdir$file.bsp

9) Now in the Hammer Editor press 'New' again to define another operation for the compiler; a checkbox will appear again just like in the other steps.

10) Press the 'Cmds' file and select 'Copy File'.

11) Paste the copied line into the 'Parameters:' textbox below the 'Cmds' options.

12) Copy the follwing line to your clipboard:

$path$file.pts $bspdir$file.pts

13) Press the 'Cmds' button again in the Hammer Editor and once again select 'Copy File'.

14) Lastly paste the just copied line into the 'Parameters:' textbox again and then make sure you tickmark all the options in the 'Compile/Run Commands' window at the left (all the options should have a V-mark in the checkboxes).

Extra note by CattleRustler: #4 SETTING UP COMPILER EXE'S
This relates to the part of the instructions that starts off "Finally we will have to configure the compiler section..."
I found this part of the instructions tricky to follow and partially incorrect. I will translate.
In order to compile a map your building into a BSP you need to let VHE what compilers to use for the 4 processes (CSG,BSP,VIS,RAD). The one's you need to use are the zoner hl tools you unzipped earlier. If you look at that dir now you'll see (among other things) 8 exe files, 4 that are named Q...exe, and four named HL...exe. The HL ones are the ones to point VHE to. Set up the tab to point to the HL exe's and you'll be ok.

Now Hammer is setup correctly to begin making maps for DarkBasic. If you want to compile the map choose 'Run' in the 'File' dropdown menu and (save at this point if Hammer asks you to) select 'Don't start game'. Also select all the compile tools you want to be active.

Extra note by CattleRustler: #6 TEST VHE COMPILER
Make a new project (RMF). Use a Box primitive and draw it in one of the views 8x8x8. Ok in the Tools dropdown menu choose HOLLOW option. When Input box pops up change 32 to 64 and click OK. On right of VHE IDE select the Texture dropdown and select the HALFLIFE.WAD (you can't use zhlt.wad in your settings as it has no usable textures-you'll get leaks if you try-trust me!), then pick any texture that looks like walls. With your box selected use Apply Texture button to apply texture, you should see the texture on the box in the Camera view port. If not click on empty area in Camera View and use View menu to set to 3D Texured Polygons. If your going to use this map in DBP you DON'T NEED A PLAYER START ENTITY but you DO NEED 1 LIGHT at least. Click ENTITY tool, on right of IDE under ENTITY Combo, you'll see another combo which lets you choose what kind of entity, SELECT LIGHT, now click once inside your box, MAKE SURE THE LIGHT IS WITHIN THE BOUNDS OF THE BOX FROM ALL THREE DIRECTIONS (top,side,front) When it is ok PRESS ENTER KEY. In the Camera View Fly inside your box, if you see a yellow light bulb icon you did the step correctly.

Now select RUN from File menu, Look at NORMAL scrren first and make sure CSG,BSP,RAD,VIS are all set to NORMAL. In EXPERT screen make sure everything looks as it did when you first set it up. click GO
The compiler should finish without errors

-----------------------------------------------------------------
THIS GUIDE IS 'WORK IN PROGRESS' AND WILL BE UPDATED AS MORE INFO
IS DISCOVERED OR FOUND TO BE IMPORTANT TO BE NOTED HERE, THEREFORE THIS GUIDE SHOULD BE SEEN AS THE 'LITE' VERSION.
ALSO THERE'S A DOWNLOAD VERSION IN THE WORKS WITH SCREENSHOTS. IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT'S BEING EXPLAINED HERE WE SUGGEST YOU WAIT FOR THE 'FULL' VERSION.
SUGGESTIONS, TIPS OR ANY OTHER FEEDBACK IS TO BE GIVEN IN THIS
THREAD. CREDITS GO TO APEXnow AND Yskonyn FOR THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENT AND CattleRustler FOR THE AMENDMENTS.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

For more problem discussions and/or solutions read through this thread.

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Tip 1: Don't use .BSP

j/k

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<I wrote down nonsense here... As uhm I usually do... >

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I've decided to just use FVF - it automatically CULLs the worlds vertex out of veiw, not AS effective as BSP's Vis Culling - but still allows alot of leway in design and can use shaders and such on any area you want.

I'm using a FVF Based World format i'm currently working on - definately the best choice in my eyes, and know i understand how the version codes work should be able to hurry up and finish my FVF exporter for Milkshape perhaps Max if i can get around to understanding it.

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Ah nice! Drop me a note please when you're done!

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hi there...
what is FVF ?

thanks

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I've already posted this in "Problems with Object Collision with BSP Map Geometry" but here goes.... Here's an interesting issue. From my original post in the mentioned thread, BSP files created using Hammer or using a Half-Life / Quake level caused the BSP collision commands in DBPro to fail. Now, I created a simple X model and compiled it using the BSP/PVS compiler and OH MY GOD!!, the collision commands work. Right, heres the question.

How do I get the BSP/PVS compiler to include textures on the BSP file just compiled and is it possible to do light mapping on the BSP file, or X file for that matter?

I will be keen on any responses.

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Rich, any chance of making this thread sticky?

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Yeah APEXnow, well either people are waiting to see what the new CS will bring including the DBP BSP compile tool or there just aren't many people focussing on BSP's right now...

I still hope people will post there findings in this thread...

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I'll make this sticky until another mod decides otherwise, as I am one of the newer mods

RPGamer

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wow rpg! I remember when you was just a.... gamer.. youve grown up

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One important thing I've found when using the BSP compiler is that if your X scene file contains textures, which I'm sure it does, ensure that the textures do not have absolute paths embedded in the file for locating the textures... ie

"C:/Projects/BSPTest/floor_a.bmp"

Change to

"floor_a.bmp"

Place the texture images into the same directory as your BSP once the X file has been compiled.

I still don't have a knowledge of applying light maps to the BSP yet, but I suppose this will be a feature of the compiler in the next update..... hopefully!

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Which compiler are you talking about exactly, APEXnow? And in combination with which editor?

Thanks RPGamer for making this a sticky one! Now let's do our best to make this a valuable thread actually!

Any news on compiling tools in combination with Quark for making maps that work in DBP? I have not received any reply yet to an email I sent containing a question about the construction of a specific DBP compile tool to be created in future by them or others...

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Yskonyn, I'm referring to the DBPro BSP/PVS compiler in the tools directory. Creates BSP files from an X file

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I've discovered what may potentially be a bug or whether I'm just doing it wrong, but.. If you load a BSP file with textures etc. Displaying the BSP is no problem. Now, if you create an object sphere and then set ghosting on the sphere, the sphere is correctly ghosted but the BSP geometry also gets ghosted. This effects the BSP display whether the object identity is 2, 100, or 1000. I'm using DBPro Patch 4.

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Apex, what 'Tools' directory are you talking about? I don't have a Tools directory in my DBP directory on the harddisk, nor on my CD!

I think the 'ghosting bug' was already known, even before patch 4, but I may be wrong... I'll run some tests myself to see if I can find the problem.

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Yskonyn, Under the Dark Basic Professional (FULL Version) with Patch 4 installed, I have a Tools directory which contains a program called Start.exe

"C:\Program Files\Dark Basic Software\Dark Basic Professional\Tools\Start.exe"

This program compiles .X files into BSP files. I can only assume that you haven't installed it, or you're using a different version of DBPro. Thats all I can say I'm afraid

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For the past few weeks, I've been attempting to find out why the DBPro BSP compiler generates BSP files which work correctly using the BSP COLLISION HIT and related commands yet when BSPs generated using the Zoner Tools or HalfLife tools, these functions fail.

As another test, I enabled the -NOCLIP option for the BSP tools under hammer which basically prevents the collision hulls being generated in the BSP files. To my supprise, when the BSP file was loaded into DBPro, the collision of an object still takes place. What I mean is, the object is prevented from falling through the floor or moving through walls etc.

I thought that DBPro used the collision information inside the BSP file to determine object collision behaviour. Now how is it that if the collision hulls are removed from a BSP file compiler with the HL or Zoner tools, why do objects still colide with BSP geometry?

I'm totally flummexed now! It would be nice if some technical information was provided on how the DBPro BSP compiler generates it's BSP files. Any bids??

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Now I am confused! I do not have a Tools directory, but I do have DBP full version and patch 4 installed?! Are you sure this is part of DBP itself and not some mod or plugin?

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I'm confused now!! Honestly, installing my DBPro CD creates a tools directory with the DBPro BSP/PVS compiler in it. Are you sure you definately installed EVERYTHING from the CD? I can't be only person who has it LOL.

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@Yskonyn You should contact DBS,they're the ones you need help from if you have files missing in the install directory an post a screen of your folder to confirm.

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Strange... very strange... I will contact them right away!

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Yeah, I've got it in my directory...

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Well contacted Rich and got a reply... But it's just not there... Maybe my CD was abducted by aliens and that piece was ripped from it using a very advanced alien method without harming the cd?

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Yskonyn, if you can prove that it's a legit copy of the CD, I dunno, an entry from the manual or something to show you actually have it, they could send you the extra bits that are missing. Or just replace the CD without bother.

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Heh, now I am really stunned.... I did a reinstall of DarkBasic Professional and looks like the first time I accidentally selected Partial Installation or something, because now everything is where it should be!! Well on to coding then!

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OK, two questions to add to this thread:

-Is using GMAX legitimate for DBP projects or are you likely to get trouble IF you ever manage to get a commercial project finished?

-When you created a map in Valve Hammer Editor, it is exported as MAP file. How do you get this in .X format so the compiler can make it a BSP for use in DBP?

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Firstly, As far as I know, GMAX does not support .X exporting. Although there are scripts or plugins for doing this, from a legal stand point, it aint on.

Secondly, DarkBASIC Professional supports BSP loading directly. You just need to ensure that your texture WAD files are also accessible from the same project directory.

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I know DBP can load BSPs directly, but Hammer creates a MAP file, just like GMAX (Tempest). How do you make the MAP file usable for DBP?

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You need to use the Run command to generate the BSP file. Just turn off the option for running HalfLife exectable. The BSP file should be generated in the HalfLife/Valve/Maps directory, if setup correctly.

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Gmax can not be used in commercial products, if you do use it you must pay something around $5,000 or so in royalities.

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APEX, thanks, I have setup Hammer to use the Zoner Compile tools, however I do not have Halflife installed, does it matter? I have told Hammer to put the compiled maps into the Hammer\Maps directory. However there's no .BSP present...?

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Yskonyn, What I'll do, I'll setup my Hammer version as if HalfLife was not installed and put together a guide. I can't do it right now as I have to go to an interview but I'll post it here when I've done it. Ok mate

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Yskonyn, I've posted you an email from your link above, I've detailed everything that you should need to know for getting Hammer up and running for BSP making. Hope it's ok

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Just wondering ...

1. Why take the trouble to compile from .map to .bsp because according to the spec' (back cover of the CD) dBpro supports .map ?

2. Is there a world editor that can output .x ?
)

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Hi Tippex

1) As far as I know, DarkBASIC Pro only supports .BSP maps...

2) That would be a program like Milkshape 3D or 3D Studio, e.g. the 'conventional' 3D suites to make all sorts of models.

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Thanx.

1) Under "Formats Supported" Quake 2 Map, Quake 3 Map & Half Life Map must mean "after compilation to a BSP".

2)Milkshape does output .x but I though of it (and 3DS) more as a 3D object "modeling tool" compared to (say) Hammer and Cartography Shop.

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Apexnow can uy send me that 2 pls
Thanx

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A lot of \shlashes have been removed- very confusing

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Error parsing brush