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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Phoenix Sentry Mini-Game Contest - Winter 2007

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ASTECH
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 06:10
Jesus help me, do oyu realize how small 15x15x5 is? It's like less than 1/4 of the grid! Thats a small game. Why would we get such a small mapped game published? I'm not trying to mock you but... I just can't see anyone making a "good" game with these boundries. Who would buy it if it is as small as it is?


DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 06:19 Edited at: 9th Sep 2007 06:24
Quote: "Jesus help me, do oyu realize how small 15x15x5 is?"


Yes I do. The best games ever made with FPSC were made with this structure. Until you do it, you won't know.

EDIT: "The best levels I've ever seen made with FPSC"

~Dave

Phoenix Sentry Programmer
Errant AI
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 06:19
Thanks for replying, DarkFact.

Quote: "Scripts take far less time to create than a level or model, so I will not put a time restriction on them. Please let me know if this seems unfair."


Speaking strictly for myself, it would take less time to create just about any type of media than it would to write a script of equal quality.

Given that the point weighting for custom media is relatively low, I would think that recycling of old or unreleased media wouldn't have any more an unfair advantage (actually less) than custom scripts.

I think the 15x15x5 rule, in itself, prohibits 90% or more of any in-progress games from being used in your compo without significant reworking.
DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 06:23
@Errant AI:

I see your points, however I believe the typical entrant will not have the expertise you have in script writing. That said, if you think the score weights are off balance I would appreciate your (and everyone's) input in getting them balanced.

Thanks for helping out with this process. The rules and specifications are always the hardest to sort out.

~Dave

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ASTECH
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 06:26
Okay... well I'll give it a try but it's going to be a strain on story.


DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 06:29 Edited at: 9th Sep 2007 06:30
Quote: "Okay... well I'll give it a try but it's going to be a strain on story."


Hey, thanks for giving it a go!

I thought 15x15x5 was a sugar cube also, until I realized how much room was there for a good level instead of how many acres were there for a bad one. I hope you get my point as you work within the limits.

~Dave

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ASTECH
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 06:32
Hey this is off-topic but I live in U.S Georgia as well. I live near Dalton and Calhoun. I've also visted Augusta a few times.


DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 06:35
Quote: "I live in U.S Georgia as well. I live near Dalton and Calhoun"


Small world, huh? I hope it's not so hot where you are. I'm heading back to Germany in January, so I'll get some cool weather then at least.

~Dave

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Errant AI
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 06:38
Quote: "however I believe the typical entrant will not have the expertise you have in script writing."


That's what I'm afraid of My script writing is abysmal LOL

I think the current point weights are good because they focus more on gameplay than content (which makes good sense for a compo with such a short duration).

Sorry if I am being a pain with this. The compo caught my eye and I figured these would be good questions to bring up at the beginning.

Again, speaking solely for myself, it would be much more inviting to be able to capitalize on previous work and I think you would come away with better entries. Especially considering that many FPSC users are returning to their educational pursuits this month.
ASTECH
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 06:44
Yeah, small world. Wait, do you originaly come from Germany?


DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 06:44
Quote: "Again, speaking solely for myself, it would be much more inviting to be able to capitalize on previous work and I think you would come away with better entries. Especially considering that many FPSC users are returning to their educational pursuits this month."


I'll consider this. However, if I were to allow projects that were begun before or media that was created before the official start of the contest to be submitted, how could I make it fair to those just beginning? What would you suggest?

~Dave

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DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 06:47
@ASTEK: My wife is from Bremen. We lived there for 3 years, near Frankfurt from 2001-2004. We're headed back now since I re-enlisted for it. My wife's father died in April and my mother-in-law lives in a 3-story row house alone. I want to rebuild the house so she can live well on the first floor until we can move her in with us.

~Dave

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ASTECH
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 07:03
Oh, sorry to hear that DarkFact. Well I'll be plotting away for this contest. I really need that CARD OF CHOICE so I can optimize my PC for Vista and hopefully get X10!


Errant AI
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 07:07
Quote: "What would you suggest?"


I'll have to think about that while I'm at the bar tonight

Immediately, only two things come to mind in the spirit of fairness.

1. Limit the compo to bone stock media with no model packs or custom scripts of any kind.

2. Relax the ban on previously created artwork or ban previously created scripts and derivatives of either (possibly unenforceable).

Anyhow, just to be above the board, I want to say that I don't have some crazy sleeper project or anything, just a handful of unreleased assets that I would like to have access to. Obviously, I could not enter any compo without scrutiny after having brought up these topics but I'd think it would be quite easy for an entrant to slip something under the radar. It would seem tempting to do so because of the fabulous prizes at stake.
DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 07:07 Edited at: 9th Sep 2007 07:09
@ASTEK: Thank you, man. Good luck in the contest.

~Dave

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DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 07:16 Edited at: 9th Sep 2007 07:27
Quote: "Anyhow, just to be above the board, I want to say that I don't have some crazy sleeper project or anything, just a handful of unreleased assets that I would like to have access to. Obviously, I could not enter any compo without scrutiny after having brought up these topics but I'd think it would be quite easy for an entrant to slip something under the radar. It would seem tempting to do so because of the fabulous prizes at stake."


LOL...I hear you, man.

I think we can filter out what has been created after the entry date. All files, no matter what you try to do to them, have signatures.

Though it may not seem this way at times, I am result oriented. I abhor task oriented methodologies. However, a contest must have a set of rules that set the standard for all entrants. As time goes, we can take individual circumstances case-by-case. If we feel an entry is fair, yet it is not entirely within the rules, we can put it before the community of entrants and see what we (as a whole) feel. If the community allows it, then we'll allow it.

Alternate ideas to this suggestion welcomed. At a minimum, the original rules will stand.

EDIT: There is a loophole for this situation...the same one that existed for the nVidia compo: Just re-create the media after the start date. Re-Create means "create it again". Not "copy it to a flash drive so the date changes"

~Dave

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DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 07:17
Quote: "Yes I can help judge, no problem, maybe I should make some premium packs to go along with the Phoenix prizes., only if it fits"


That would be great, Underside! I want to get the Premium Packs started asap, so I can start getting the code written for it.

~Dave

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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 10:31
Qustion: May we post demos for the public or should the game be top secret untill the competitions end date?

Visit us at www.freewebs.com/bigvikinggames , you can find our new free games and new free models.
DieRider
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 11:49
Just to clarify about my volunteering of being a judge for such a contest on the phoenix forums, i am judging?

Also, i figure i'd be 1 day ahead of schedule while marking entries since im in the 2nd country to see light in the new day.(that of course being australia, while #1 is New Zealand), but the poles cheat...

Las estrellas arriba

"See, guns don't kill people, people kill people, guns defend people against people with smaller guns"
DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 16:14
Quote: "Qustion: May we post demos for the public or should the game be top secret untill the competitions end date?"


That's up to you, however keep in mind that any "top secret" and revolutionary idea you dream up may be copied by another contestant.

Quote: "Just to clarify about my volunteering of being a judge for such a contest on the phoenix forums, i am judging?"


Yes! And thank you for volunteering.

Quote: "Is there anything new that I need to know about these packs, due to changes in the way Phoenix works?"


No, the adjustments to be made (if any) will be on the coding side of the house. You media guys have it easy.

~Dave

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creator of zombies
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 16:29
I would enter, but my skills compared to Errant and Rolfy are pants to say the least. I might just observe. Anymore room for judges by the way?



DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 16:54
Quote: "I would enter, but my skills compared to Errant and Rolfy are pants to say the least. I might just observe. Anymore room for judges by the way?"


Are you kidding me? Demon Sun is fantastic! You're one of the best we have!! But if you would rather judge than I'm happy to oblige. Thanks for volunteering.

~Dave

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creator of zombies
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 16:59 Edited at: 9th Sep 2007 17:00
@DarkFact: Oh crap, I just thought, I don't have Broardband,so judging might be a bit of a task. On seccond thought, I might just enter. I suppose the demon sun demo doesn't count does it. If it doesn't, I might just be a judge

ps: Did you get my email about PGP V20 pro. When's the release? Also,do yo have a MSN address



DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 17:15
@CoZ: My MSN address is my email address, but I'm rarely on it.

I got your email and just sent you your v20 Update. You can enter by CDROM, but you'd still have to meet the deadline. Also you can judge by CDROM, but only the semi-finalist entries. Your pick.

~Dave

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SamHH
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 17:22
i have a small question about photos. Are we prohibited from using photos taken before the start of this contest?
creator of zombies
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 17:32
@DarkFact: Ill judge my internet. My collage has broardband so I can DL the games on the net there. I would judge my CDROM, but airmail would cost a fortune



DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 17:43
Quote: "i have a small question about photos. Are we prohibited from using photos taken before the start of this contest?"


No those are fine.

Quote: "@DarkFact: Ill judge my internet. My collage has broardband so I can DL the games on the net there. I would judge my CDROM, but airmail would cost a fortune"


Okay, cool. Thanks man.

~Dave

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SamHH
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 17:55 Edited at: 9th Sep 2007 18:07
ok thank you
first post on the third page.
Seth Black
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 18:24
DarkFact,

Greetings. I'd love to assist in judging this contest.

Thanks,

Seth Black


Own It, Or Get Owned...
DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 19:04
@Seth Black: Cool. Thanks for the help.

~Dave

Phoenix Sentry Programmer
djmaster
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 19:25
i enter with my game Weekend of Hell.most of the game will be scratch models only guns will be normal ones and some retextures to enemies

Soldier of Fortune Episode 1
Cyborg ART
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 20:34
DarkFaction: Could you maybe make a list of who´s competing and links to their threads so we all now what and who we are competing against?

Visit us at www.freewebs.com/bigvikinggames , you can find our new free games and new free models.
DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 20:47
Quote: "DarkFaction: Could you maybe make a list of who´s competing and links to their threads so we all now what and who we are competing against?"


I could, but it probably wouldn't be accurate for very long. I haven't seen any threads made yet either. If they have been made, they didn't mention the contest in the thread title.

~Dave

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Inspire
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 20:50
I'm just going to enter the full version of Gone.

Cyborg ART
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 20:50
I made one yesterday before i saw this trhead, I should see if any mod could change the title.
Otherwise its called Lost Treasure W.I.P

Visit us at www.freewebs.com/bigvikinggames , you can find our new free games and new free models.
DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 20:52
Quote: "I made one yesterday before i saw this trhead, I should see if any mod could change the title.
Otherwise its called Lost Treasure W.I.P"


You don't have to get it changed. Just edit your first post to reflect it. I'll remember it.

~Dave

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DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 20:59 Edited at: 10th Sep 2007 01:27
The List

Possible Contestants:
i want to game
Silent Thunder
xplosys
game lover
vorconan
BIG Viking Games
ASTEK
phil17
Mr Makealotofsmoke
Mickm
Errant AI
flashing snall
djmaster
Inspire
Robert F
RDF (might)

The following are judges:
DarkFact
FastBurst
crispex
Underside
DieRider
Seth Black
creator of zombies

I will update this on the first post as needed.

~Dave

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game lover
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 21:07
Wow I have alot of competition. Man theres no way in heck, but I will still try.

We all want to be awesome, but does awesome want to be us?
DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 21:10
Quote: "Wow I have alot of competition. Man theres no way in heck, but I will still try."


That's a good attitude. I like that a lot! Thanks for being a part of this and good luck.

~Dave

Phoenix Sentry Programmer
Robert F
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 21:27
Dont think im going to win, but i will enter anyway just for the fun of it
DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 21:29
@Robert F: You never know. The guy you think might beat you may drop out or something. Thanks for joining up.

You're added to the list.

~Dave

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ASTECH
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 22:06
Hey, Darkfact. How are we suppost to end the game? Since it will get published if it's good enough... then how would that work? End it completely of leave it questionable? Would it matter?


creator of zombies
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 22:38
Am I still a Judge DarkFact?? (just checking),



DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 22:46
Quote: "Hey, Darkfact. How are we suppost to end the game? Since it will get published if it's good enough... then how would that work? End it completely of leave it questionable? Would it matter?"


Well, I call it a mini-game, but it doesn't have to have closure. It could just be the first 2 levels. But, by definition, a level has closure of its own. It's up to you.

Quote: "Am I still a Judge DarkFact?? (just checking),"


Oops...Good thing there's a list. I put you on it now.

~Dave

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DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 22:51
@Underside: Great man. Can't wait to see them. Why not send me a prototype pack first so I can get the coding done...before you commit to 5 at once.

~Dave

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phil17
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 22:53
How does the publishing work? does it just apply to the submitted game?

SamHH
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 22:58
Question: will the entry's be encrypted after they are received because i think most people wouldn't want their custom media being distributed with out protection.
DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 23:01
Quote: "How does the publishing work? does it just apply to the submitted game?"


No, it will be for all FPSC games. For the next few weeks, we will be working towards getting FPSCgames.com ready for selling your games commercially via electronic download.

You will be able to create an account and setup your own storefront for selling your game. From your account you can track sales, receive payments, issue registration keys (if you use Phoenix Professional+), etc.

~Dave

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DarkFact
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 23:02
Quote: "Question: will the entry's be encrypted after they are received because i think most people wouldn't want their custom media being distributed with out protection."


That will be up to the developer to do. We will not release any submitted game without the prior clearance of the developer.

~Dave

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phil17
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 23:24
Wow you really have a great set up running and good plans for FPSC devolpers, lets hope a professional outlet will boost commerical titles coming from this area.


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