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Work in Progress / Marvin the Magician

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DB PROgrammer
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Posted: 20th Jan 2008 22:24 Edited at: 20th Jan 2008 22:24
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Is the collision problem the one where he hops up and down a little in certin places. I have had that problem and found a fix.

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C0wbox
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Posted: 20th Jan 2008 22:39
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No the problem is in the sliding collision further away from the middle of the level/map/scene.

I have estimated that beyond X=2000, X=-2000, Z=2000 & Z=-2000, the sliding collision stops working and walking into walls and objects that are part of the map doesn't slide. If movement into these things percists, the player clips through the floor and dies.

This problem I guess could also lead to hopping up and down in certain places.

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Posted: 20th Jan 2008 22:47
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Do you think this is a problem with sparkys? I don't want this project to die so if there is anyway I can help im here

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C0wbox
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Posted: 20th Jan 2008 23:24
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I feel it is a problem with Sparky's DLL.

But when I next speak to Alquerian he may be able to shed some light on the situation.

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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 02:11
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Well I just tested Sparky's Collision at the position 3000,0,3000 and it works correctly. I tried it using the commands sc_objectcollision, sc_raycast and sc_sphereslide this leads me to belive its a problem with your code. Hope you get this sorted out.

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Mr Z
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Posted: 21st Jan 2008 11:38
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Quote: "Hope you get this sorted out."


I hope that to. Do not want this game to die, it´s far to cute.

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 05:33
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Quote: "Quote: "Hope you get this sorted out."

I hope that to. Do not want this game to die, it´s far to cute."



noooooooooo dont die game noooooo


Come see the WIP!

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C0wbox
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 16:40
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I have managed to alert Alquerian to the problem.

He is snowed under with his own work at the moment, so I don't know when I will get an engine-fix.

Sometime soon hopefully...

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Alquerian
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 19:44
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Yeah I should be able to take a look at it today or tomorrow no worries!

Support the indie!
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Mr Z
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 20:00
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That was good news .

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 21:57
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sweet


Come see the WIP!

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Posted: 30th Jan 2008 05:24
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So did you find the problem Alquerian this was almost on the second page which makes me wonder if its dead.

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C0wbox
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Posted: 30th Jan 2008 20:18
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Alquerian has advised me that he should be able to fix the problem but as of yet, I don't have confirmation to say he has/hasn't yet.

So you guys are as much in the dark as I am.

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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 31st Jan 2008 04:16
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Quote: "which makes me wonder if its dead."

err, look at the last post date, and you can see that it's almost certainly not.

Quote: "Alquerian has advised me that he should be able to fix the problem but as of yet, I don't have confirmation to say he has/hasn't yet.

So you guys are as much in the dark as I am."

I'm sure he'll get to it, don't be worried if you project isn't constantly in the spotlight.


BlockVerse-> Old School Beta Demo-> Dream-> Old School-> Guitar Platformer
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Posted: 31st Jan 2008 04:20
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Quote: "err, look at the last post date, and you can see that it's almost certainly not."


Yeah, I knew it wasn't dead I just wanted an interesting way to ask how progress was going


If it was illegal to be stupid we'd run out of room.
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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 31st Jan 2008 09:11
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ah, kk.


BlockVerse-> Old School Beta Demo-> Dream-> Old School-> Guitar Platformer
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Joeeigel
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Posted: 11th Feb 2008 22:54
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You've come along way since I met you almost two years ago, When you were still using solid block textures, Glad to see I played a small part during the first stages of this game, Good luck, with this and future projects.

Joeeigel.

Ps, Is that my rope, or an edited one?

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C0wbox
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Posted: 11th Feb 2008 22:56 Edited at: 11th Feb 2008 22:57
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I believe it is your rope, yes.

EDIT:
Infact, most of the textures are heavy morphs or manipulations of your textures Joe.

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Joeeigel
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Posted: 11th Feb 2008 22:58 Edited at: 11th Feb 2008 22:59
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Ahh ok, I don't mind if you credit me or not (Would prefer to be), But I see its still the same basic game from, 4 months ago was it?

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C0wbox
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Posted: 11th Feb 2008 22:59
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Pretty much.

Just with 2 more maps, a new HUD, more enemys than I've had in all my games before, pickups that work and help you and reworked geometry thanks to the new version of Deled allowing me to subdivide faces.

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Joeeigel
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Posted: 11th Feb 2008 23:01
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Well, If you need any texturing done (No longer does any work on anything because I cant get started on anything) You know how to contact me.

Edit:

Another new Deled?

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C0wbox
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Posted: 11th Feb 2008 23:08
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No no, this is the same "new Deled", just I now have a use for it. I still do the main modeling in the old one, but when I need to make smooth things, I edit them in the new version.

I also wasn't aware you did "work on anything" as such?

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Joeeigel
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Posted: 11th Feb 2008 23:14
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Well, I would PM over it but this forum dosn't have that function as far as I can see, So I'll try not to drift too far from the topic.



(PM on soharix forums)

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Posted: 11th Feb 2008 23:38
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So i'm guessing there is no progress on it yet CB. If there's not you could always post your collision code and we could help you(unless of course its top secret).


If it was illegal to be stupid we'd run out of room.
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C0wbox
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Posted: 12th Feb 2008 00:31 Edited at: 12th Feb 2008 00:32
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The collision code is being worked on by Alquerian.

The problem is to do with a fault in Sparky's collision DLL, not the code. (The code works wonderfully.)

The problem lies where sliding collision is concerned in that any vertices that start outside (> X=2000 and Z=2000.

For some reason, sliding collision simply doesn't work on any part of any of my levels or any objects beyond X=2000 & Z=2000.

Alquerian assures me he has everything under control and that he will get around it. (As well as file a bug report for Sparky's collision DLL.)

I cannot elaborate any further. But this is why the collision at Port Calger is so odd compared to that of the rest of the map.

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Jerok
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Posted: 12th Feb 2008 16:36
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The game looks amazing. I just saw it and I'm wishing I had seen it before, because now I'm going to end up reading every single post in all six pages.

As for the collision problem you could always resize your world to be smaller. It would take some time to redo but its a solution if you can't fix the problem.
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C0wbox
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Posted: 12th Feb 2008 16:43
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It would be a solution if it wasn't for the fact that I'd run out of decimal places in DBP to calculate some of the smaller movement functions. I'd also have to scale all the positions of objects in relation to 0,0,0.

I feel Alquerian has a better solution.

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Jerok
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 02:52
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I guess it depends on how big your world is but I asuume just scaling everything by 1/10 wouldn't be a problem. And scaling the positions would work the same. It is automatically scaled in relation to 0,0,0. Anyway I'm sure alquerian has a better solution but just in case its better the stopping production.
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C0wbox
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 16:49
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Well we had a few solutions actually, which Alquerian and I tried out.

One was to rotate the map by 1 degree (Y axis) so that no walls were right angled. This is because Alquerian suggested it played up on vertices at right angles beyond 2000,2000.

He tried it and got it to work.

I tried and couldn't so it probably won't work as a solution. It also meant all the items weren't in the right place.

But yeh aside from the 2 aversions here, I'm sure Alquerian can find an actual fix rather than getting around the problem.

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StevetS
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 15:10
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Love the look of the game - I'd not change it - not ugly, its cute and it looks like its supposed to be. Looking forward to seeing this one finished.


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Mr Z
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 18:41
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Yeah, we are all awaiting it. And by the way, any news?

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.
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Corey
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 19:57
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I hope you don't stop... Just played the demo it was quite fun.
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C0wbox
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 20:43 Edited at: 18th Feb 2008 20:50
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Well seeming as you all want some news, I'll give you some news that I've been hiding since the thread went quiet about a month ago.

I have for a while now, been sitting around waiting for a fix for the collision problem with the engine, from Alquerian. (Which I still don't have yet.)

I put the engine in italics because I have been using the engine to work on another game which I called, for the time being, Vision. It is in Vision that I found the collision problem but realised it would also be a problem in Marvin the Magician. I had originally hoped to return to Marvin the Magician but then it seemed I was going to switch once I got the new engine to working on Vision full-time. But seeming as I've had time to think things over and I still can't actually make a propper decision (as I still don't have the engine fixed) I will suspend both projects until I get it.

Don't put your hopes down though, over the past 36 hours or so I have been thinking about Marvin the Magician again and felt I wanted to carry on from where I left off, having taken a longish break from it. So I think once I get the engine back I will return to this project. But I will shelve Vision for another day.

(But I do feel sadenned that I have to give up Vision, because it too was turning out quite nicely, and I had better ideas and foundations for it. (It is also the only game I've ever had the characters arms and legs moving, and it also has propperly calculated third person viewing that detects object intersection between the camera and the player properly.))

The future holds the answers to this thread... (Oh and so does Alquerian because if I don't ever get the engine fix I'll have to rethink everything.)

EDIT:
As a side note, if enough of you feel you would prefer Vision and post to say you do then I would probably be persuaded to switch projects and start a new WIP.

(To re-enforce the reasoning for switching: Vision is a far easier game to manage for someone like me, because Marvin the Magician takes loads of work and parts of it I don't think will ever work properly. But Vision was thought out from the start and has been developed into something I could get working and get going as a propper project quite easily.)

So a correction: The future, Alquerian and you, the fans, decide what happens to this project and the WIP...

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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 22:36
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i always vote for "complete the current project".

also, i think you should seriously consider increasing your repertoire to include first-hand knowledge of sparky's if it's your decision to utilize it in whatever projects you take on, thus removing their fates from the hands of others. that's one of the pitfalls of team scenarios. i'm sure alquerian had good intentions when he offered to assist you, and maybe that turned into more than he bargained for, but, ultimately, it's your project. i'd like to see you retake the reins and continue to guide this project to it's final destination, wherever YOU decide it should be. judging from your edit remarks, i don't think your heart is in MTM right now. but, i have to wonder if that's only frustration speaking vs the desire to see MTM through to the end. MTM's fate is in your hands, where it belongs.

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Mr Z
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Posted: 19th Feb 2008 00:09
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I do not want to this project to end. The idea is nice, the graphics is cute. So if you wonder where my posts are, I´m reading and watching, just do not really have anything to post. But I´m here.

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.
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C0wbox
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Posted: 19th Feb 2008 00:39 Edited at: 19th Feb 2008 00:40
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@ Virtual Nomad
I see what you are saying, but I cannot, take the reins, because without 3 key people, the project wouldn't have even made it to the WIP stage.

Those 3 are:
Sparky, because there is no other way to do polygon collision in Dark BASIC Pro with no one elses help.
Alquerian, because he actually made the collision work properly, because my jumping system sucked (because I can't get my head around how to structure it)
Mark Morley, because his culling system ensured the maps weren't stupidly laggy for everybody.

So you see, without those 3 the project would have died ages ago.

I had trust in Sparky because I've been using the DLL for absolutely ages now and never came across this problem before. Only now when I don't need it has it appeared.
Alquerian has done his work but he is the only one who knows what hes done, inside and out. So therefore he is the only one actually able to get around the collision problem, while maintaining his engine.
If I had left out the culling system, by levels would be about 500x500 WU big. Which is stupidly small.

In conclusion, I don't really know what to do. Without these 3, I can't make MTM. With them, I face problems.

And also, if I was to take the reins, I would switch to Vision and you lot would complain. So it is everybody who decides the fate of MTM: Me, Alquerian, Sparky, the fans...

@ Mr Z
Nice to know you care. I feel many people don't want it to end, but I don't have very many options I'm afraid.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 19th Feb 2008 03:50
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I won't decide for you what you have to do. I'd hate to see it die, but I'd rather not force you to continue on something you think better as abandoned.


A mod has been erased by your signature because it was larger than 600x120
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 19th Feb 2008 07:23 Edited at: 19th Feb 2008 07:24
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Quote: "I'd rather not force you to continue on something you think better as abandoned.
"


indeed.

@COwbox - i see it clearer now. and, thanks for the explanation.

as far as us complaining, yeah, for a little bit... until you wow us with Vision! i'm sure we'll get over the (temporary?) loss of marvin, though it'll be easier if you tuck him in a secret level inside Vision, then everyone will be happy (magicians have a penchant for mis-calculating their teleport targets afterall ). no matter what you do, it's a "win-win" in my eyes. i get my thrills from traveling to any destination laid before me. hence the moniker i claim.

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Mr Z
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Posted: 19th Feb 2008 11:39 Edited at: 19th Feb 2008 11:40
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Well, ok. I would gladly have seen MTM become complete, but if this is the way you are feeling... maybe you can start again later, after Vision. Or you could always release the source and let anyone who wants to work on it do so. In any case, it is your choise, and I wish you good luck with whatever you are doing now and in the future.

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.
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C0wbox
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Posted: 19th Feb 2008 13:11 Edited at: 19th Feb 2008 13:13
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@ tha_rami
Thanks for the input. I too don't want to see Marvin die, he was quite cool. But I do have a tendancy to get drasticly stuck on certain projects (such as RPGs) and lose the thread of the plot.


@ Virtual Nomad
I smiled when I read what you had to say; it is quite true, Magicians usually end up calculating their targets wrong, or mispronounce a word. (I'll make sure he appears somewhere: If it's a secret level, I'll alert you all on how to reach it, or if it's an easter egg (hidden part within a level) I'll alert you all to its whereabouts.)


@ Mr Z
I feel that releasing the source would be a good idea, but would kind of destroy the feel if someone continued making it, because they would have no hopes of making the maps consistant with the others for I have the technique. (And all the 114+ available textures.) But even still, I think I'd prefer just to put an end to it entirely instead of being the guy at the end of the project who couldn't-manage-it-so-he-passed-it-on-and-someone-else-made-it-for-him.
That would just make me feel bad. Also, passing the code on would make it not mine, and I'd feel bad about that, for I spent all that effort and it would just be thrown away effectively.


But never fear people:
I am currently enquiring on the Sparky's DLL thread to see if there is a fix for the collision problem, and as soon as that is fixed, I'll move onto Vision. (Link: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=74762&b=5&p=5)

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Posted: 19th Feb 2008 13:22
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I support your move to Vision


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C0wbox
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Posted: 19th Feb 2008 13:49 Edited at: 19th Feb 2008 17:37
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Good good, as much as I regret losing MTM, this is what I like to see. Thanks man.

News to all
I'm currently getting back into the development on Vision and I have currently utilised a fix for the collision problem which is to scale the game by 10% (so everything is 10% of its original size and at 10% of its original position) And guess what, it works fine.

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Mr Z
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 23:26 Edited at: 20th Feb 2008 23:26
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I will miss Marvin, an it is an pitty this project wont be completed. But it is your choise, and you did what you thought was best. Good luck with your next and new project (Vision, that is). Hope it will be as cute and charming as Marvin.

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.
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C0wbox
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 23:40
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Well if it continues how it has for the past 24 hours, Vision should be awesome with more solid gameplay than MTM.

I would create a WIP for Vision (because I'm getting really hyped up about it now) but I'll give you lot a chance to say goodbye to MTM.

But yeh, I have to say, I'm set on Vision now, so soon I'll start the WIP. (I already have a pretty much, playable Demo.)



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Jerok
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 16:28 Edited at: 21st Feb 2008 16:28
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Quote: "I'm currently getting back into the development on Vision and I have currently utilised a fix for the collision problem which is to scale the game by 10% (so everything is 10% of its original size and at 10% of its original position) And guess what, it works fine. "




It's too bad that you are quitting MTM, I was looking foward to seeing it finished, but vision looks just as awesome so disappointment is diminished.
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 17:25
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Quote: "But yeh, I have to say, I'm set on Vision now, so soon I'll start the WIP. (I already have a pretty much, playable Demo.)"


I'm sad about MTM... What you say, Demo! Who's talking about MTM.



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C0wbox
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 19:24 Edited at: 21st Feb 2008 19:27
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Hehe, thanks for the support guys

I'll start a WIP in a little while (ranging between a few minutes and about an hour) and give you all a taster of the "project Vision training centre".

So keep watching the WIP board people.

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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 20:27
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Sweet. I'm looking forward to it.


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C0wbox
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 20:31
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Just to alert people, I am now about to start creating the Vision WIP.

This therefore effectively closes this WIP.

(The download will also now be unavailable to free up room for Vision.)

Goodbye MTM.

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Pet A Mizzle
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2008 18:28
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Noo you canceled it! Dx
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