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FPSC Classic Product Chat / V109 BETA - Public Test

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Slayer222
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Posted: 13th May 2008 02:28
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It should work fine. Maybe it's your PC, and where's this map you talk about?

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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 13th May 2008 04:15
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About 6 post up from here.

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GOTH 1 SNIPER
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Posted: 13th May 2008 04:16 Edited at: 13th May 2008 04:19
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the map is attached to my post up some
Quote: "It should work fine. Maybe it's your PC"

My pc haha you funny funny i have 7k pc
heres my rig

Manufacturer: Alienware®
Processor: Intel® Core 2™ Extreme Processor Over-clocked to 4.0GHz — liquid cooled
Memory: 4608 MB RAM
Hard Drive: 2TB Total
Video Card: Dual ATI® Radeon™ HD 3870 with Crossfire™ Technology
Monitor: 30"Samsung 2560x 1600 (6ms)
Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional Series
Speakers/Headphones: USB Hub
Keyboard: USB Root Hub
Mouse: USB Root Hub
Mouse Surface:
Operating System: Windows Vista® Home Premium

Lol i can run 5 FPSC games at the same time if i wanted

An for my other pc i test my gmes on

Manufacturer: MSI
Processor: AMD athlon(tm)64 Processor 3400+ 2.41 Ghz
Memory: 2.00 GB RAM
Hard Drive: 900 GB Total
Video Card: ATI® Radeon 512 MB
Sound Card: Sound Blaster
Speakers/Headphones: USB Hub
Keyboard: USB Root Hub
Mouse: USB Root Hub
Mouse Surface:
Operating System: Microsoft Windows XP Professional

Trust me i dont think its my Computers lol

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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 13th May 2008 04:43 Edited at: 13th May 2008 05:07
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@Lee:

SciFi1.fpm Level. Enter this room and kill the guy standing at the table doing nothing, and kill the guy running around. You can hear the guy in next room who is paceing back and forth on the first floor through the walls no matter what level your on in this room (Floors 1 thur 3). Here is a screen shot of the room.

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Slayer222
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Posted: 13th May 2008 04:57
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Um, I never said it was bad Goth. For example, FPSC doesn't really support ATI as much as Nvidia. My friend can't even get FPSC to turn on. And there is a such thing as over-kill (quad core 4GB of RAM, 1TB hard-drive, etc). But I was mostly referring to software. Viruses, conflicting programs, drivers, whatever.

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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 13th May 2008 05:05
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@Lee:

I was able to duplicate the bug with this map. Basically it's 2 rooms, enemy in one and you in the other.

Run to the door to open and get the attention of the enemy. Then run into a corner to confuse the AI. When the door shuts, you will still here the enemy moving around. Move (but keep away from the door) and the enemy will also move towards you.

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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 13th May 2008 05:12 Edited at: 13th May 2008 05:46
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@GOTH 1 SNIPER:

I'm sorry, but using your level, everyone in the freaking room attacked me.

Now, after saying that, the AI was pretty dumb. After shooting me, 2 guys went to stand next to a window and one sat down and had some coffee.

I will install FRAPS here in a moment and show you what I see.

[EDIT]
GOTH 1 SNIPER, I used your map and I went to each of the character entities and right clicked them to bring up their properties. Under the section "Physics" I changed the "Always Active?" to "Yes" and the entire room beats the poo-poo out of me. I am uploading the map for you to try. Please let me know.

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Flatlander
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Posted: 13th May 2008 05:48 Edited at: 13th May 2008 05:52
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I also downloaded the Goth's map and changed all the character's "always active" to yes. However, when I used 1.09 beta10, the frame rate went down to around 15. Too slow.

I then used v1.07 with Ply's mod that I'm testing. The synchrate is set to 38 and the frame rate was around 28 but would go down to around 20 at times. Here is an image. Click on the Thumbnail for a larger image.



Actually, it is not recommended to have this many characters so close together using FPSC. Especially attacking all at the same time. For me personally, I don't think it is necessary to do in order to make the game interesting and fun. Looking forward in seeing the video clip.
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GOTH 1 SNIPER
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Posted: 13th May 2008 06:08
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Ya i tryed it FPS is way way to low with Always Active

But did you see bout the ppl not shooting?
In v1.08 i can have 30 ppl in the same room with 34 FPS an 20 of thim will shoot

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GOTH 1 SNIPER
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Posted: 13th May 2008 06:14
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Quote: "such thing as over-kill (quad core 4GB of RAM, 1TB hard-drive"

Nop =) i like em fast =)
i go the Alienware ALX CrossFireX =)
its a sexie PC

Ya i fixed the ppl in the rooms all i did was go back to v1.08 =)

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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 13th May 2008 06:22
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Which make sense since it's checking the Physics value for each dynamic object that is running around (which is why the FPS is low).

I will try your map with 1.08 and see what happens.

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Slayer222
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Posted: 13th May 2008 06:24
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Quote: "such thing as over-kill (quad core 4GB of RAM, 1TB hard-drive"
Your wasted money then

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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 13th May 2008 06:38 Edited at: 13th May 2008 06:55
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@Lee:

With Version 1.08 Release
-------------------------
I now have to agree with GOTH 1 SNIPER that using 1.08, and this map attached, all the men in the room moved to attack and the FPS was always around 30+ on my machine.

After they were shooting at me for awhile, some of them seemed to stop shooting and just stood there.

To test this, run the attached map and "don't move". You can spin the player around, but don't have the actual player move any directions.

That said, the Physics for each entity on the property "Always Active" was set to "No".

With Version 1.09 Besta 10
--------------------------
I changed their property of "Always Active" to "Yes", but that was using 1.09 Build 10 and the frame rate dropped down to ~15 and they all chased me down and beat the crap out of me.

I am attaching the map that works for version 1.08 Release.

It is my opinion that some script or AI function is being set to zero when you are attacked by multiple enemies (idle perhaps?) or until you are within range (but what do I know).

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Plystire
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Posted: 13th May 2008 09:40
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Quote: "And there is a such thing as over-kill"



Not a chance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huyzCJvS6UQ


That was 8 years ago... most games nowadays won't even let you install them on that computer.


The one and only,


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Slayer222
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Posted: 13th May 2008 09:54
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Well, when the 70+ core comes out in a year or so, it won't matter if you have a quad or dual core much. As long as you can run your old games

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 13th May 2008 16:40
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You can't have too many characters in FPSC X9 before it hits performance drain. Even V108 will reduce active enemies to 2 if the FPS drops below 30fps. I think something was introduced/tweaked to create slightly different balance of character logic in V109, though I cannot reproduce the issues using the test-map.fpm. I load and run in both V108 and V109 BETA10, and get a solid 32fps. In both versions I occasionally drop below 30fps, which causes the active enemy count to drop to 2 (before climbing back up to the maximum active enemies). I won't be changing this system for X9 as there is a new AI system for the migration version will imrpoves the performance in this area considerably, and AI behaviour too. I will try to pin-point the tweak that caused a change between V108 and V109 but the system has not been changed significantly, and has always operated on the system of reducing active characters if the frame rate drops below a fixed fps. Silly AI is also something that will be dealt with during the migration version, as the current scriped system has limits as you have discovered. My advice for now is to use characters selectively, spawn them when you need them, and ensure that areas with a high number of characters are placed in a simple area of the level so you are not drawing too much.

"Small, smart, and running around the legs of dinosaurs to find enough food to survive, bedroom programmers aren't extinct after all "
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 13th May 2008 17:22
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@Lee:

I'm ok with that. I haven't come up any other bugs just yet (except the ones I emailed you about the sound with AI) and I believe when you incorporate DarkAI, those should disappear.

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xplosys
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Posted: 13th May 2008 17:26
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Quote: "Even V108 will reduce active enemies to 2 if the FPS drops below 30fps"


That's good to know, and explains the different results across the forum users. With a little creativity, you can allow the player (in-game) to select the number of active enemy at a given time according to his wishes or computer specs.

Best.

fpsFREE.com - for FREE FPSC Content - Contact Me
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 13th May 2008 18:33
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BETA11 uploaded. I have also attached a modified version of the test map provided above which uses the appearnofloorlogic script and a modified BETA11 system to handle it. It might improve speed in some situations for characters that are in one room and do not need to go up stairs or fall through holes.

"Small, smart, and running around the legs of dinosaurs to find enough food to survive, bedroom programmers aren't extinct after all "

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the fps gamer
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Posted: 13th May 2008 18:35
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Sorry if this question has already been asked but how many beta's is there going to be before the final release?

-If it is cool then it is cool
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Nickydude
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Posted: 13th May 2008 18:35
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Would we be ok to install the latest beta if we're testing the store?

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 13th May 2008 18:41 Edited at: 13th May 2008 18:42
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Quote: "Would we be ok to install the latest beta if we're testing the store?"

I think so, but you will have to install the store files again after you install the new beta.

At least it worked fine for me when I just upgraded from beta 7 to beta 10.

Don't forget to visit Conjured Entertainment

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Nickydude
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Posted: 13th May 2008 18:57
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Thanks CE, wasn't sure.

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 13th May 2008 19:01 Edited at: 13th May 2008 19:02
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NP
I just tried it and it works fine.

@LEE
That is a really nice .bin and .dbo deleter, and it looks much nicer than the last one.
Sorry about my sarcasm the other day when I misunderstood xplosys.

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Testing
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Posted: 13th May 2008 19:43
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I tested that map what Lee made, and this happens to me. I don't know how that dude, who is behind stairs, made it, but, it look little odd....and funny.

Sorry my English but English is not my main language.

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GOTH 1 SNIPER
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Posted: 13th May 2008 22:43 Edited at: 13th May 2008 23:03
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Im going to test it some more but i see you fixed most of the bug's
TY

Edit: works good on test and good on build game I had 38 FPS all the time in that map even add more ppl an more rooms to test the sounds



The ppl in the room was massing me up
An also i see the Ai just dont keep walking into the walls if they cant get you
An i had full shaders on in that map every thing looked an worked good

But i wish there was some way to edit the deaths cuz they look kinda dumb just laying there with ares all out o.0

Im sad now i dont have nothing to nagg about

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 13th May 2008 23:14
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Think you have enough health and ammo there Goth?

Don't forget to visit Conjured Entertainment

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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 13th May 2008 23:29 Edited at: 14th May 2008 00:25
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@Lee:

I also tested this on a "half-way" decent machine and I also got FPS ~30 so great job! When I dropped down the back hole, they still shot at me but they didn't jump down (this is a good thing).

There is one issue that I have with the scifi-1.fpm level in which in the beginning, you go thru the crawl space, then you stand up in the generator room and the first door you come to, when you open the door *AND* stand in the doorframe, the FPS usually take a huge hit (~15) for about 1-2 sec, then goes back to normal when you enter the room. I can provide a screenshot if you wish.

After learning about how you are going to be adding DarkAI, my sound issues should disappear and thus currently this Beta version almost has my blessing.

[EDIT]
I've attached the screenshot. Remember, you have to be standing IN the doorframe (so your on that little hump of the doorframe). Before the door and after you enter the room, it's ~33. I can always duplicate it.

Once that is fixed, I don't think I have ANY more issues with FPSCreator.

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GOTH 1 SNIPER
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Posted: 13th May 2008 23:54
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@Conjured Entertainment Nop i still think i needed more health an ammo =)

@Cellbloc Studios
Ya some times the doors will do that to me to i dont know why
Some times a corner will do that to 0.0
I didnt say any thing bout it cuz i thought it was me adding to much stuff

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uman
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Posted: 14th May 2008 01:39
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With V1.09 Beta 11 I have more unstability than any of the latest development versions with player movement being very laboured and jerkey as the engine struggles to maintain smooth movement caused by who knows what. fps ranges from around 9 to 38 fluctuating upon its likes and dislikes apparently.

FPSC still seems to have some memory management problems to me as once fps starts to drop off and the engine behaviour becomes erratic it seems to clog up system memeory and not release back even when one moves into simplistic level areas. Once erratic behaviour is encountered the engine never seems to recover itself.

I have levels with up to 70,000 and more polys to view in some areas and though earlier versions of FPSC handled this number without problem, all of the recent development versions (since V1.40RC2 or earlier) have shown less inclination as they go on to handle my levels at all well.

With this latest version I still have non rendering portals which are probably creating leaks which cause this erratic slowdown and fluctuations in fps. Decals too are problematical as they flicker in and out of visibility in tandem with portal rendering.

It may be that this is caused by a legacy of non compatible segments or entities from earlier FPSC versions which effectively may mean dumping past development and starting again from scratch though I dont particularly relish jumping back some years in development.



"There are those who said this day would never come - What have they to say now?"
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Airslide
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Posted: 14th May 2008 02:00
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Uman - I would reccomend waiting to jump back and instead trying first to make a level from scratch with your custom content. Sometimes old levels aren't like much by FPSC, and I found that once you know how you want your level to look, rebuilding it to those specifications is usually a good idea to fix portal related issues and what not (something I also did to keep a clean entity library before the library cleanup feature was added).


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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 14th May 2008 02:21
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@uman:

Can you make a small test map of the issue your having? I would be happy to test it for you.

I personally won't load any of my maps because, as you mentioned, updating of segments and such has wreaked havok on things. I suggest start fresh with a small demo with the portal issue you are having.

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 14th May 2008 12:51
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UMAN : For V109 I am only dealing with issues that changed since V108. The portal issues you are having are related to a much larger issue that I want to tackle with the migration version and get it right for larger scenes. That said, I would like to take a stab at fixing your portal issues which is what your irratic performance stems from. Can you send me a small FPM and some custom media that represents the larger problem you are having. Thanks.

BETA11 sounds good so far. I want to release it before the week is out so anything I consider as a major fix will make it into V110 now so we can retain the stability we have forged these last few weeks. Any last minute ARG STOP ISSUES on BETA11, let me know

"Small, smart, and running around the legs of dinosaurs to find enough food to survive, bedroom programmers aren't extinct after all "
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Slayer222
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Posted: 14th May 2008 21:42
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Well, I'd like to see the ability to make doors and windows static without them disappearing. I always used to be able to do that in V1.04 and lower. Also, check out that white box window glitch. I dropped V1.09 because of it. So after this is it just V1.10 or are we getting the migration beta's?

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5867Dude
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Posted: 14th May 2008 21:48
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Quote: "migration beta's?"

I can't wait for when they come!


Was cool kid
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Zdrok
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Posted: 14th May 2008 23:13
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When (and if) there are migration betas, I'll try to be first in line!
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GOTH 1 SNIPER
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Posted: 15th May 2008 00:12
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Ohh an this bug
it stops me from useing my fav gun
they start swimming when they have been shot
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1926570151179775282

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Slayer222
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Posted: 15th May 2008 00:15 Edited at: 15th May 2008 00:16
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The Barret .50 cal is your favorite gun? Nice choice It's because you have the damage set too high BTW. Try it at 50 for a bit.

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GOTH 1 SNIPER
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Posted: 15th May 2008 00:21
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but the .50 cal is sapost to be a one shot kill an it wont seem right to shoot the guy dead in the face an it takes too shots to blow him away
if you know what i mean?
I tryed useing the headshot script but some times you shoot thim it the head it wont do any thing it will just to thru
then some times the head shot moves to the arms or legs

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Slayer222
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Posted: 15th May 2008 00:23
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I know. So yes it's an annoying bug. BUT there are ways around it that kinda work. Also, the Barret isn't an anti-personnel weapon or meant to be portable. Too bad there's no FN spr...

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GOTH 1 SNIPER
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Posted: 15th May 2008 00:29
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Ya lol but i love that gun so much
I shot .50 cal one time an will never do it agen lol
the 35 lb gun busted my 145 lb body up lol it moved me back bout a foot

if you have the fix to the head shot script can you point me in the right place lol i looked on the forums but they didnt work i even tryed to make my own but i had to shoot like 2 feet above ther head

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Slayer222
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Posted: 15th May 2008 00:37
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I know, They're supposed to be FIRMLY attached to something Even hip-firing one is foolish, much less trying to aim through the sights and fire it

You can adjust the head area's height somehow, but I don't know exactly.

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Nickydude
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Posted: 15th May 2008 02:26
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Quote: "BETA11 uploaded. I have also attached a modified version of the test map provided above which uses the appearnofloorlogic script and a modified BETA11 system to handle it. It might improve speed in some situations for characters that are in one room and do not need to go up stairs or fall through holes."


My FPS dropped to 17 when testing this map, here are my machine specs:
WinXP, GeForce 8800 GT 1GB, Intel® Core2 Duo CPU E6850 @ 3.00GHz, 2GB Ram, DX9.0c

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LeGugusse
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Posted: 15th May 2008 11:00
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Beta 10 and 11 are too slow, with too low FPS.
I went back to the excellent beta 9.

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 15th May 2008 13:40
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LeGugusse : Please send me a screenshots under BETA9 and BETA11 and the FPM of the level. I did not add anything specific to B10 which might slow things down. Ensure you are using default media.

"Small, smart, and running around the legs of dinosaurs to find enough food to survive, bedroom programmers aren't extinct after all "
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Pain
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Posted: 15th May 2008 16:50 Edited at: 15th May 2008 16:53
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hey Lee.

Beta9 worked great.

I installed B10 and then tried B11 and after that my test games dont work.
and with my luck, FPSC will not uninstall it comes to an error.
but, during the test it pops up with an error during the saveing and optimizing part right before the creating lightmaps part of the test game. I havent tried building yet but I will.


My pc specs:
Athlon 64 3700 2.5ghz (skt939 -2mbL2)
2gb ram (pc3200 -400mhz)
Geforce 7600gt (256mbVram)
260gb harddrive

but hope theis helps. im going to need to dive into my registry and delet FPSC entries and then delete the FPSC folder to get it back to B9

Pain

Me = noob

and i love The TGC : )
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Cornett Media
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Posted: 15th May 2008 16:59
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Actually, compared to previous upgrades, I haven't had much issue at all with my test levels. Usually about the only drop I have is when I'm running another application, and even then the drop's only momentary.

To Pain: I had the same problem some time ago. What was causing that for me was the 'automatic floor' option in the Preferences menu. Unchecking that tended to correct the issue.

Gemstone Games is now Cornett Media
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LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
24
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Posted: 15th May 2008 18:02
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Pain : Please provide the FPM you are using to test game (using default media) and a screenshot of the error. Thanks.

"Small, smart, and running around the legs of dinosaurs to find enough food to survive, bedroom programmers aren't extinct after all "
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Davidek
16
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Location: Canada
Posted: 16th May 2008 00:42
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Same here! LOW FPS! YOU GUYS NEED TO FIX IT plZ!
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RickV
TGC Development Director
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 16th May 2008 00:43
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If you have issues with slow levels then get small FPMs sent to Lee ASAP!



Rick

Financial Director
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[Check out Jed McKenna - http://www.wisefoolpress.com/]
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