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Geek Culture / what has made you cry(entertainment wise)

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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 07:04
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What has made me cry(well no not really given a little extra dosage off something extra sad then maybe) would have to be a whole load of anime series/movies, the most recent one would be Kanon...

anyway please share with peeps of the forumn what(movie/film/series/anime/manga/game) has made you cry or close to crying...
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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 07:04
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oh(forgot), Kanons a anime series...

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Arrow
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 07:11
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Hmm, honestly, I'ld have to say Ico for PS2 was pretty darn close, all those who have beat it know what I mean. However the one game that really gets me nearly every time is "KANA - Little Sister". No doubt few have ever heard of it, but I suggest to anyone over 18 years old to buy this game if you can find a website that sells it.

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HZence
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 07:50
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After the unveiling of Cloud's true past in Final Fantasy 7, I could feel tears welling up in my eyes...but I didn't cry. The thoughts going through my head were more like "Holy crap, that's awesome." It was the first RPG I ever played and thus I guess that's why I'm biased on the fact that it was the best Final Fantasy ever.

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Arrow
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 07:58
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Lol, I knew someone would bring up FFVII, who can't get a little emotional when you hear "Aeris's Theme"?

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HZence
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 08:00
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I hate that music. Love the game though.

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Ian T
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 08:15
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The Amber Spyglass came damn close.

--Mouse

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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 08:26
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lol, damn Aerith/Aeris(what the hell is it)...So sad...

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HZence
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Hey, TF just brought up a good point! Why do some people call her Aerith?! In the game it clearly says "AERIS" for her name - anyone have a solution?

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Eric T
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 09:02
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Aerith is the name for the japanese version (the one i played first) and Tedd MF Woosley decided to make it Aeris for the dumb US audience. Just like he made "Lock" into "Locke" and a whole buncha other FF crap through the years.

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8truths
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 09:06
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Honestly?

Ever seen the Discorvery Channel's "Meerkat Family" documentary, where all but one of the tribe dies within a year? It really upset me when this snake kept toying with an injured meerkat while the others looked on and could do nothing.

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HZence
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 09:09 Edited at: 1st Aug 2003 09:09
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"dumb US audience"

Can you elaborate on that...

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Eric T
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 09:12
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well the average Us gamer is.. lets say ..less sophisticated then the average Japanese gamer. Thus ted woosley ,playing god, decided instead of making the idiot of a us gamer sit there try to guess how to pronounce the name "Aerith" the decided, or ted decided, to use the easier name "Aeris" for the us gamers.

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8truths
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 09:19
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Less sophisticated than the average Japanese gamer!?!

One, gamers in general are not sophisticated.

Two, the Japanese are not sophisticated. They fall for all that anime and melodrama.

A sophisticated audience is inherently suspicious of melodrama.

People mistake plot for purpose.

And save the pronunciation business -- visit [href]www.engrish.com[/href], home of the one and only Flesh Drink, and a world of T-Shirts that say "I hate myself."

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Eric T
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 09:23
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Don't blame me....Blame Ted MF Woosley.


Oh and BTW.... Japenese gamers are alot more sophisticated... and anime is in a level of sophistication on its own.

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Arrow
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 09:24
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I wouldn't go as far to say we're dumber than anyone else, it's just that Localization teams sean to think so. Personally I'm getting real sick and tired of those in charge thinking we can't handle foreign media in it's original form. Ironic that the US claims freedom of expression when any foreign stuff comes in the censor and butchers the hell out of it. It drives me nuts, that's why if I can I try to watch movies and such in the original language with subtitles, it harder to weave in their own diologe and English dubblig just plain blows.

Anywho back on subject...

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Arrow
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 09:31 Edited at: 1st Aug 2003 09:32
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Quote: "One, gamers in general are not sophisticated.

Two, the Japanese are not sophisticated. They fall for all that anime and melodrama."
Whoa whoa whoa, lets back the steriotype trolley up one bit. I'm a gamer, hell 1/3 of my life is video games. I'm also a philolsopher, I think of stuff that I can't even understand. I take that first quote as very offencive!

As for the second part, anime is another 1/3 of my life. Have you even seen Evangelion? Watch all 26 eipsodes plus the two movie and then tell me how unsophisticated anime is. I take the 2nd quote as VERY OFFENCIVE!

OK, NOW back on subject...

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HZence
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 09:31
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Well Yusuke, I've gotta disagree with ya on that one. There's only one way you can pronounce a TH sound at the end of a word.

Sephiroth, however, is an entirely different story. Why didn't they change his name? His is up for debate too - I've heard "Sep - uh - roth" and "Sef - uh roth". Which is it?



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Eric T
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 09:32
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seph a roth... easy as that...

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HZence
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 09:35
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Nope! It's not ...

...because many think that the way to say it is "Sep huh roth".

(hehe I love this)

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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 09:40
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Quote: "Oh and BTW.... Japenese gamers are alot more sophisticated... and anime is in a level of sophistication on its own."


got to agree there fully*99999^999

Quote: "One, gamers in general are not sophisticated.

Two, the Japanese are not sophisticated. They fall for all that anime and melodrama."


THAT IS FULL WRONG, anime makes 49% of why I'm still alive and Comp is the other 49% of why I'm still alive(sorry My mind wants to slap the guy silly that said that, thats why I sound so wierd)
and 2 percent is the fact of what anime has taught me about staying alive...

I fully respect the Japs and there "products"...
and the western side(story/visually wise) of general stuff aren't that great compared to jap stuff, just look at their technology and then look at the technology in western worlds, it's not as "high tech"

anyway, seriously , try to avoid going out of the subject(Damn...>>looking back<<I'm not one to talk)

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Arrow
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 09:40 Edited at: 1st Aug 2003 09:41
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Sepherot is the name of the paths in The Tree of Life, a deeply religious symbol that basicly is a road map to all the plains of existance. It has been used in religion, philosophym even science.

I believe Sepheroth is the plural or singular form of this word. Often in Square's games religus or historical names are given to main charcters. I'm not sure if it was the orignal creators or the locanization team that thought of duing this. In any case it's become part of Square's unique style.

Now can we please get back on topic?

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HZence
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 09:43 Edited at: 1st Aug 2003 09:43
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Ugh. This is the thing that makes me ashamed of being human; there's no escaping the senseless arguements of why one type of human being is better than another.

(Thinking to self: Don't get started here, HZ, they don't care...)

I could rant and rave for hours but...nah.



[EDIT] Okay, you've proven your point Yusuke.

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8truths
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OK . . . explain how anime is sophisticated.

Because what I have seen of it has a tendancy to assume pseudo-poetic and melodramatic tones.

This is pretty unsophisticated, just a different cultural tone than our own b-movies and failed, pretentious indie movies.

Don't point me to various movies, because I don't plan to rent them.

The only Japanese stuff I ever found really sophisticated were the post-WWII writers (who had much the same response to their period in history as the secular humanists did in Europe, but with a heightened sense of responsibility for the awful events of the era).

Maybe I have never seen the right anime movies (my experience with anime comes mostly through my 13-yr nephew and a college lady friend), but it never struck me that anime touched on anything but old philosophical ground, crappy theatrics, and a singular visual interpretation.

I suppose what I am looking for here is like this:

Name an anime film you find sophisticated; synopsize its sophisticated outlook.

For example, Citizen Cane was about the paralyzing effect of power; it took an old topic and provided the basis for almost all future visual interpretations of power relationships when depicted in film.

Another example, Fight Club is a quasi-postmodernist ramble about the consequences for the individual in an increasingly regulated and pointless existence provided by industrial culture (oddly, this is also the MacGuffin for the Matrix and in a very round-about way, the plot to Office Space).

Never watched anime with the impression enough to treat it as if the writers had made a treatment for it, and listed anything of this sort on the first pages of the script.

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Ian T
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 19:55
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anime is the most unsohpisticated thing I can think up out of hand. It assumes its audience is so dumb, it has to exaggerate every obvious thing and remove every detail. One of the many reasons I can't stand it.

--Mouse

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denki
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 21:48
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Quote: "Have you even seen Evangelion? Watch all 26 eipsodes plus the two movie and then tell me how unsophisticated anime is."


Couldnt agree more, Its my favorite series, and I challenge anyone here to watch it through, then watch the both endings, and understand it. Its very smart, philosophical and truley a work of genius.
But people cant see past the animation and crap series that are shown on TV... you've got to open your minds a bit to enjoy anime.

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denki
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Posted: 1st Aug 2003 21:53 Edited at: 1st Aug 2003 21:55
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Oh, and to 8truths, how about Evangelion, a series about humankinds desire to gain power, to become gods, to defeat all enemies when in the end their true enemy is themselves. and about a young boy who is suddenly forced to deal with a huge amount of resposiblity and disturbance and the pschyological effects this has on him. Oh, and it's also basied on religion, our god, and what we could have become... I havent seen anything more sophisticated than evangelion, TV show, Movie or Game.

But then again, anything written by a suicial man would probably turn out quite smart and emotional... you'll see no pocket monsters here, no-siree.

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8truths
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2003 01:18
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Denki . . . that's what I'm talking about.

Good synopsis.

However, I would counter that all of that is melodrama. None of that is philosophical. A boy with a sudden huge responsibility -- this doesn't happen.

What you have described is melodram in its essence.

It's classic mass media communication model that assumes the best way to garner an audience is to make the characters like the audience.

The Japanese have a thing for melodrama.

Witness:

-- IT'S A DAMNED RICE COOKER! Don't act like you're righting a eulogy!







People on LSD don't make up shit this dumb!

The Japanese have a serious hyper-poetic disorder, where they overdramatize everything.

Kids do this too, and its why anime appeals to them.

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denki
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LOL Nice pics, I know what you mean about the Japanese.
but Eva isn't your classic stereotyped Japanese thing...
and even if it was, does this make it less sophisticated? It doesnt just have some boy in some mega situation crying about it... Meh, its hard to explain... I think we may just have different tastes... but nothing live action has ever made me feel disturbed/happy/reflective at the same time, I've never seen films that deal enough with how the characters think, and how they feel inside (last episode is set inside his head)... anyways ... nm, I'm too tired to go on about eva.

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denki
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2003 01:30
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Oh... "None of that is philosophical." ... It is.

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8truths
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To flame or not to flame. Nah, you seem sincere.

I will say that conflict is not philosophy, it's theatre.

It is generally a product of our modern movie hype that conflict is sold as philosophy (after all, what better joy is there than learning about the human condition while some dude gets clobbered?).

I do dig what you mean about the difficulty of summarizing a complex plot, and then trying to convey that meaning to a person not apt to want to get the meaning (but willing to deploy the word "to" four times in a single clause).

If I come across it on the shelf or while flipping around cable, I'll give it a go (can't watch Univision all the time, right?).

Next anime entrant?

If another movie is not listed, I plan to refurbish this thread as a discussion of "Sabado Gigante".

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Solidz Snake
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old Voltron rulezz, its sad that they went 3D..



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Arrow
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Boy you are a fool, why does something meaningfull can't be over 130 minutes? An anime series will have more than any movie due to the fact that they have more contant, you couldn't compair 13 hours to 2. Ok, have it your way, here's a good anime movie, Osamu Tezuka's "Metropolis". A great story of morality and human compation. Try the amine series Lain, it can't be explain in enough detail to give the series justice. How about Chobits (series), Cowboy Bebop (series), Ghost in the Shell (movie), Ninja Scroll (movie), or Vampire Princess Miyu (movie). Hell, watch Akira, or better yet read the 8 volume, 5000+ page Manga. each one is the size of a phone book. If you think all anime is identicle to Sailor Moon, Dragoon Ball Z, and Pokemon, you are soorly mistaken. Untill you accully sit down and watch one of the exaples I've list in whole, uncensored, then you got no room to talk.

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Easily Confused
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2003 06:47
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"What has made you cry (entertainment wise)"

William Shatners singing, very painful to listen to.

Oh no...it's...it's making me...(sniff)...cry now...just...thinking about...the horrible...(sniff)...noise!



The horror! The HORROR!

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Unless your name is Bob Ross, then you can do it in thirty minutes.
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Solidz Snake
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2003 07:06 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2003 08:10
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[EDIT]

shouldn't have told anything
8truth.. ssssyhh



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8truths
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Voltron . . . OK, I watched it. I admit.

Grrrr . . . now I will ahve to make a separate Sabado Gigante post.

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Eric T
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2003 08:20
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Quote: "If you think all anime is identicle to Sailor Moon, Dragoon Ball Z, and Pokemon, you are soorly mistaken. "


Very true.

Any human who judges anime and manga on those 3 series should be damned to litsen to william shatner.. singing down in el paso.. for all eternity.

Oh BTW arrow.. you gotta see GitS Standalone Complex(series) its a real good one so far.

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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2003 08:43
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Easily Confused yay, at least someone here still remembers what the thread was meant to be...

damn, ok Eva FAns(I'm a half crit of eva)
Eva isn't as good as you think(once you've seen as much anime as me), alot of anime out there are many times better, plot, graghics, chara and well, whatever makes you emotional...

heres a list of what I've seen

Trigun(partially)
Star Ocean EX (partially)
Cowboy bepop
Inuyasha(Partially->theres freakin' over 100 eps)
Hand maid may(recommend this as well)
Witch Hunter Robin(this series is unforgetable->good
Furi Kuri(strongly reccomend->it's hell crazy)
Tales of eternia(sorta sucked->nothing special)
Read or die(nice gun sound effects)
Crest Of stars(Strongly recomend)
Sekai No Senki(the next bit of COS<up there^^^>
Excel saga(partially->full crazy really humorous)
Salyers/slayers try/and the other 3 series and movies I can't think of at the moment(Strongly recomend)
Hack.//sign
Angelic Layer(good series)
Vandread 1st and 2nd stage(good series)
Noir(partially)
Gohst in the shell
Ah my goddess(movie)
Gasaraki(partially)
Kanon(only watch for plot no blood or anything very cutesy charas )
Love Hina
love hina again
Video Girl AI(sucked)
Pretear
Macross(didn't like->eva fans might though)
forgot Eva and the stupid kiddy programs in the morning like poke and sailor(dbz too but thats not really kiddy uncensored)
and some others that I can't remeber

don't know how you can not like anime? it's heaps better then what the western world has to offer(NOOooo, don't hit me, sorry, personal preferences)but ye sometimes (I must add) the western movies can be pretty good especially the war movies...

anyway looks to me I got carried away again, it's just I'm a strong anime follower (living on the slowest developing country, that has nothing decent to watch cause they have to cencor out everything that has anything that you'd want to watch)

lol, going to hit myself soon(trying to stop typing)
anyway the exageration in anime is there for the humor(and if you oppose that then...)And by the way don't you think that watching something that isn't likely in the "real world" is a good reason to watch it<why watch something that happens everyday, just take a stroll in the park if thats why you watch shows that are"normal")

sorry gtg,my times out on the comp(but I 'll be back---got more to say---)

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8truths
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There is a solid argument for escapism.

I have to confess, I haven't even made a dent in that list in my time as non-viewer of anime. Perhaps I did speak out of turn.

But, I would also say that "normal" and "possible" are separate things. Is it normal for five guys to decide to knock over a casino? No. Possible? Yes. Stupid? Definitely. In fact, stupider than the stupidest anime.

Nothing has ever made me cry more than watching the trailer for another frickin' movie about some dweebish plot where a retired criminal (in the real world these are called fat, unemployed 50 year olds with tatooes who do roofing jobs to make ends meet) who gets in with a volatile partner to do one last job. But, something goes terribly wrong . . . This summer, Al Pacino is . . . Old Dago Cop Hunting A Team of Slick Bandits in LA. Oh, wait. That was the plot to Heat.

Anime gets points over that entire genre of crap any day.

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Dave J
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Quote: "The Amber Spyglass came damn close."

Agreed.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Bishop
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the movie "Savin Private Ryan" made me cry. Very sad movie....

"When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced. Live so when you die, the world cries and you rejoice."
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denki
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Meh... I have seen alot of anime, but the characters and their minds of eva sets them apart... you get alot of insite on Shinji, and that makes it interesting.

8Truths - Its prolly best to not watch it at all, as you have to see absolutely all of it (mostly the ending), and to be honest it starts out as lame as DBZ.

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8truths
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2003 21:58
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Y'know, I think I have finally formulated the argument for all this.

To say that DBZ and all the crap is the standard by which you judge anime is to say something like all comedies should be judged on the work of Pauly Shore, Yahoo Serious, and Carrot Top.

If there awful comedy? Yes.

If comedy awful? No.

Same goes for anime? Sound right?

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Arrow
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2003 23:34
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DBZ is acculaly pretty good, the trouble is the no one is seeing it in it's original form. Funimation has changes the music, alot of the diologe, even some of the images. The original Japanese version blows the US version out of the water.

Teenage Male Geek + Female Remotly Intersted in Common Geek Activities = Teenage Male Jackass
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8truths
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2003 23:46
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I can't bring myself to defend DBZ. They all really look like they could use a few laxatives and maybe a shoulder rub.

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denki
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2003 00:08
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Even watching Japanese DB series, it's stilll the same boring repetitve story, with the same boring repetive fighting.

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Eric T
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2003 00:17
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Quote: "DBZ is acculaly pretty good, the trouble is the no one is seeing it in it's original form. Funimation has changes the music, alot of the diologe, even some of the images. The original Japanese version blows the US version out of the water."


Yeah to an extent. Frankly i like reading the manga alot more. And even then i'd still rather watch and read DragonBall.(ot GT, that blew)

Opinions are like a$$holes, Everybody has one.
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Dave J
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2003 03:55
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Quote: "Carrot Top"

*Shudder*

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2003 06:02
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um ok, I'd just like to add a few more to my list I left out

Gundam wing
Onegai Sensei
Hellsing(partially)
Real bout high school
Card Capters/1st series/movie (it's actually pretty good/don't hit me k)
Kamikaze Kaitou Jeane

I actually learnt almost all my japanese from watching anime

yer well, glad thats settled
(one last point: Eva sucks compared to alot of other anime/manga)

wanna make me start on my manga list?...(not as long as my anime list)

Dreamers-Scars Angel Tears
Timewaster to the max
3d modelling is my new best "FRIEND"
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Arrow
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2003 11:41 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2003 11:42
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Hate to disagree with ya, but I liked Evangelion (one of the ways to spot a fan is that they can spell 'Evangelion" it without looking at the box ).

I think Evangelion really gave people a curveball that many didn't expect. I meant the series almost got pulled of Japanese TV twice(no small feat) for pushing the cencores. It's far deeper than most people expected, considering it's giant fighting robot cover. It is a very personal look into the psyche. Most people weren't expecting it, even the hardcore otakus, I think that puts some people off it.

Teenage Male Geek + Female Remotly Intersted in Common Geek Activities = Teenage Male Jackass
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