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Geek Culture / Mac Version??

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Benjamin
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Posted: 17th Aug 2003 19:50
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Is there a version of DBC or DBPro that works on Mac instead of windows?
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Shock
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Posted: 17th Aug 2003 19:58
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DBPro uses DirectX

although i seem to remember someone was going to help the dbteam make an OpenGL version? or am i wrong?

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Cash Curtis III
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Posted: 17th Aug 2003 20:10
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beats me. Dont macs run on open GL?

Comin' soon: www.megatoncreations.tk
Now all I need is an actual game!
Also: Reviewing the games no one else bothered to.
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lcfcfan
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Posted: 17th Aug 2003 20:35
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Yeah Real Game Tools are making DBGL a replacement open GL engine for DBP.

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empty
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Posted: 17th Aug 2003 20:38 Edited at: 17th Aug 2003 20:40
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Blivvy works on it:
http://www.darkbasicpro.com/apollo/view.php?t=13851&b=8

But I don't see a Mac version (or anything else than Windows) of DBpro

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 17th Aug 2003 21:20
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If they make an open GL version for mac would the language still be a form of BASIC like it is now or would they need to make the language something else? My wife has a MAC running OS10x which is linux based. Luckily for her I know my way around linux via console commands.

just curious
Rustler

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Shock
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Posted: 17th Aug 2003 21:24
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hmm, maybe the compiler will run on a mac.

obviously the db editor wont, but a replacement could be made easily (well, a replacement could be made easily on the pc, but since i know hardly anything abouts macs...)

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empty
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Posted: 17th Aug 2003 23:03
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Since the Mac uses a different CPU and OS the compiler would need a complete rewrite. However, the approach that the DBS (or TGC or whatever) team choose for the DBpro compiler- it's heavily based on DLL calls- would make it relatively easier to rewrite the core compiler. The difficult part would be to port all the libraries.
As I said, I don't see a Mac version of DBpro.

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Kanzure
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Posted: 17th Aug 2003 23:05 Edited at: 17th Aug 2003 23:06
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A Mac version would be time wasting. Mac is only 10% of the computer market, hell Microsoft PAYS Apple Computers to STAY IN BUISNESS. (If they do not have apple, then they are considered a monopoly, and are split up by the courts.)

There would be no money earned by making a Mac version (well, almost)..

~Morph/Kanzure
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lcfcfan
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Posted: 17th Aug 2003 23:23
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I remember not so long ago indi was saying there was a version of dark basic for mac but it is limited to 2D maybe you could ask him as i think he is a mac user!

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Benjamin
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Posted: 18th Aug 2003 01:18 Edited at: 18th Aug 2003 01:23
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its funny because other BASIC languages support 3 different computers. Windows / Mac / Linux

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Ian T
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Posted: 18th Aug 2003 01:30
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xxxpetratxxx, you have no clue what you're talking about . First of all, Linux is not 'another computer'. I have SuSE Linux 7.1, Red Hat 9, and Windwos 98 SE running all on this PC I'm writing on. Furthermore, no, all other BASIC languages don't suport Windows Mac and Linux, and furthermore, none of those 'other' languages you are talking about have a built in 3d-enigne ready to use.

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indi
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Posted: 18th Aug 2003 08:22
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theres a few alternative languages for the mac in a basic syntax, If you have a mac try METALBASIC which is free and looking good. Or TNTBASIC which is a commercial product.

http://www.lunarpixel.com
http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 18th Aug 2003 13:54
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The only real advantage I can see as an end user would be the ability to release my software on both Mac and PC. As very few commercial companies even bother with the Mac I doubt Banshee Studios would particularly benefit.

That said I did once have to write a program for both PC and MAC as part of my then day job. It was only a simple programme, basically a timer, and I was told to write it twice for each platform.

I had never programmed a Mac before in my life! So I set about researching programming languages, I found about 3 BASIC languages that had PC and MAC compilers, I was expecting something pretty rudimentary because as a platform preffering low CPU overhead programs the Mac is not ideally suited to BASIC. I was bitterly dissapointed at the quality of what was available.

Don't get me wrong, I love some things about the Mac - as twice an Apple engineer in my carear I am often far too pro-Mac. However when it comes to programming it's a heap of junk, either you spend £10k on tools, or you dont.

Personally I found the solution I was looking for in .html which let us face it is the first truly universal programming language, if a little limited.

Sadly for the Mac's in this tale when my wages where not delivered again (see the Pitta Games Collection on my web page for details) I made sure to change the program to use a few ActiveX Hover buttons... It continued to run fine on the PC and the Mac's performed according to the program specification - only somewhat slower *snicker*.

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Shock
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Posted: 18th Aug 2003 23:20
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HTML i wouldn't describe as a programming language, i think its actual name is a "Markup Language" (as derived from the name HyperText Markup Language).

I guess the difference is that Programming Languages are normally compiled, HTML is just a script really. Actually, calling HTML a script wouldnt be fair either, as it doesnt actually support commands other than display. A script i would class as JScript, ASP, PHP etc.

Dictionary.com sez:
markup language A coding system, such as HTML and SGML, used to structure, index, and link text files.


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Benjamin
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Posted: 19th Aug 2003 15:58
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Lol sorry I meant operating systems. Silly me

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Rob K
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Posted: 19th Aug 2003 17:05
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The answer is no, and there won't be either.

The DBP compiler is far too rooted in Windows.

> The 3D engine uses DirectX (Windows only)

> A lot of DX's own inbuilt functions are used for a lot of tasks (therefore hard to detatch from DX)

> The compiler produces X86 spec ASM code (which rules out Mac)

> SafeDISC is used for CD protection (which rules out Linux)

> A lot of Windows API calls are used (which rules out Mac,Linux).


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Mattman
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Posted: 19th Aug 2003 18:22
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You could make a whol nother language with same syntex though, right?
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indi
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Posted: 19th Aug 2003 18:39
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sure but it would be an open gl variant

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Shock
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Posted: 19th Aug 2003 22:50
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and db would sue your ass heh,

but i guess the db team could do it, but i'd rather have a working nearly buggless pc version of dbp first


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Rob K
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Posted: 20th Aug 2003 03:36 Edited at: 20th Aug 2003 03:36
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Quote: "You could make a whol nother language with same syntex though, right?"


Yes, but we all know that isn't going to happen.

If you want multi-platform coding wait (forever) for BlitzMAX.


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Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 15:14
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@ everyone: Sorry for digging this up but I forgot to thank indi

@Indi: Thanks indi I tried METALBASIC and its really good

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indi
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Posted: 9th Sep 2003 20:04
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=]

the "uzas" at blitz had no answers for me whether they were going to use OS9 code with game sprockets or carbonised OSX linux based setup.

I think that blitzmax is a fabrication of someones ideals and not at all in development.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 11th Sep 2003 13:08
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Quote: "I think that blitzmax is a fabrication of someones ideals and not at all in development"

Possibly, although I feel it does exist in some form, but either wont be out (due to Marks problems with Guildhall (?)) or it'll be a very long time before it does - cross compatability 'aint easy...


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Rob K
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Posted: 11th Sep 2003 16:31
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Quote: "I think that blitzmax is a fabrication of someones ideals and not at all in development."


BlitzMAX was announced by Mark himself a long time ago. Read Mark's worklog for more info.


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Wik
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Posted: 12th Sep 2003 03:27
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MACS ARE EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The rock has rolled!
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 12th Sep 2003 12:08 Edited at: 12th Sep 2003 12:08
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Quote: "MACS ARE EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

In what way ? Please define how you reach this conclusion...


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Shock
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Posted: 12th Sep 2003 22:23
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theyre evil because while mac is alive, microsoft will not be split up.

microsoft are evil (no one can deny that), so therefore apple are evil

he may of had a different reason though lol...


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 13th Sep 2003 02:15
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So by your definition that Microsoft and Apple are evil, then it also follows that Sun, Cray and all most other computer companies are evil too...

Even if Apple went under (and I suspect they will or at least drop the Mac side in around 5 years), Microsoft wont be broken up - there are plenty of other operating systems out there.


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Mattman
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Posted: 13th Sep 2003 02:19
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for one example, linux

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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I would just call Linux a toy at the moment - for home users anyway.


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indi
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Posted: 13th Sep 2003 06:05
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poor kids without a mac usually misbehave like that.
there evil i tell ya!, ignorance is bliss.

I dont see macs dissapearing in 5 years.
I think you forget that macs are also in large areas of medicine and having seen the Sydney IVF labs here there doesnt look to be a shortage of them.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Most companies here are thinking of or are actually using Linux (mostly to replace Windows servers), but they certainly aren't buying Macs.

Apples profits aren't great at the moment, and soon the iTunes system will probably be more profitable than the computer area.


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indi
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Posted: 13th Sep 2003 14:08
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randi should see a few floating around in hospital labs.
I saw a DNA mac application that compares samples for mathces etc..
It was only 2d and nothing was exceptional in graphics but it was doing its job nonetheless.

In case u missed the point of OSX its a linux variant as well.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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OSX is supposed to be pretty good to - shame I cant afford one...


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Shock
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Quote: "Most companies here are thinking of or are actually using Linux (mostly to replace Windows servers), but they certainly aren't buying Macs."


Yeah, iv'e noticed this, not so much in small companies but in government orgs too. Although I can't see the NHS and local councils switching totally over to linux, it does look like small areas within those orgs are going that way.


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 13th Sep 2003 17:53
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For government departments its an ideal way of saving money and should be supported. Some councils are too - mainly because of the cost of Microsoft licenses...


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indi
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Posted: 13th Sep 2003 18:37
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lord of the rings is just one film edited in the last 6 years in conjunction with a cool editing application called shake.
http://www.apple.com/shake/

Ive even worked indirectly for Intel's website in the APAC region for Euro RSCG and they used Apple G3s (yes!) with FormZ (3d app) to produce the intel 3d looking chip images found on their own sites.

the wintel pc isnt the eschalon of computer platforms, it astounds me that lot of pc users think otherwise.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Quote: "lot of pc users think otherwise"

Because most PC users are ignornant of other OS's. Its not helped by Apples high prices and lack of advertising.


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Shock
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im not over keen on macs myself, probably because the last time i used one was a long time ago, i bet theyve improved by now (with what everyone is saying about OSX).

im mainly one of these PC guys you are talking about, since i build, fix and maintain them for my job

but i still hate windows. to be honest with you, the only thing that makes me from not turning to linux redhat is ie and dbp, and im NOT joking!

my favourite os has to be the new Amiga OS 4, derived from Amiga Workbench, which i more or less grew up on I just love the way it gets everything out of the hardware it has, you will find nothing like it.

Based on an Amiga 1200, with Amiga Workbench 3.1:
A windows 95 comparable OS, which came out around the time Windows 3 came out, which runs on a 14mhz processor, 2 megs of ram, loads off one 740k floppy disk.


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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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"the only thing that makes me from not turning to linux redhat is ie and dbp" - Agreed, DBP is the only Windows exclusive App that I could not live without. Unfortunately until it becomes Multiplatform (Which I don't see happenning real soon because its Direct X based and has a whole loada dll calls) I'm stuck using Windows. But Hey, at least XP is a significant improvement performance on my PC

For DTP and Graphics work, I love MACs meself Just wish I could afford a new one Oh and Amiga OS and Workbench? Mmmmmm

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 16:48 Edited at: 14th Sep 2003 16:52
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I actually say my first Apple G5 advert yesterday! The trouble is you dont get much for your money.

As for the Amiga - I bet the chances of it getting a mainstream release here are very, very slim...


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Benjamin
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 18:30
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The processor in my mac is G3

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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Yes, they are overpriced, but very high build quality and reliability And obviously the specs aren't comparable to PC specs, they outperform pcs with much high "on paper" spec.

Personally I find the latest Amiga developments very confusing as a consumer. You can't just buy a "Amiga" anymore

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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And at the moment its hard to get anything with Amiga stuff in - its not exactly widely availiable - the Amiga website is rather uniformative about what supposed to be happening.

I do hope Intel/AMD hurry up and get their 64-bit processors out at a resonable price - although they could have a jump on Apple/Motorola by going straight to 128-bit.


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indi
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cisc 128 bit as compared to risc 64 bit LMAO, are you sure you know what your asking?

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Who mentioned CISC ? I never stated that they should keep CISC...


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indi
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unfortunately theres a limit to what the pc can do in its current hardware state.

if pcs moved to a risc based setup, it would be awesome!.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Unforunately they wont, I dont think even Intels 64-bit processors are completely RISC - still using this stupid sort-of-hybrid system.


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indi
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hybrid for how long?. perhaps thats a sign of a shift?

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