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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Project Blue Official Thread

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fallen one
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2010 00:20 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2010 00:25
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Project Green
No timer system
So how can I test for speed.

Contains all of Project Blue v1.6 final
Which are? You really need to sell this a bit better, I don't like downloading programs I don't know what they do, also I may have to mess about with it, it may not have a front end and Id have to fiddle about on something I'm not even sure if its got it in the first place.

Lets just cut to the chase otherwise this is going to go back and forth and then the fan boys will start chiming in as well.

Project Green
Bloom? Motion Blur?

Project Blue gore? or particles

No timer system, so how on earth can I check the speed of this, that is a major seller here, you see I think of the practicality, I'm sure people have a lot of fun making a level that are as small as their backyard and takes up half the users hard disk in storage and the user waits for 5 minutes to load the level on their beast of a machine to even get any frames out of it. Thats not how I do things, you see I want it to be played, and played by as many people as possible, not a hundred or so players who download it for free from here and the creator gets a little tin meddle gold star from teacher to put next to there name on the boards.

The problems are from my experience in the past, and Ive popped in and out of here for a number of years to see if this runs yet, I notice people are now modding it, thank god, so, perhaps I can get some use out of it then, right then, what Ive noticed over my years of popping in and out of testing this to see if it works sufficiently yet, single player, put more than a few people to shoot in the total level and it runs like sludge, right single player out, multiplayer then and my we now have mods so that can be worth using then.

Lighting in level, makes massive file sizes, makes level take forever to load, places strain on system resources, FPSc is not the most forgiving, in fact far from it. Right then lighting out. Stylised game that doesn't use lighting.

Anti Aliasing, game is not smooth, gives a jagged edge, don't want that, answer these new mods, see they have bloom that hides this.

Cons, ohh plenty with fpsc, by what has it got, multiplayer if you use the mods, so that beats unity as you have to pay for the multiplayer functions or UDK and giving the Baron 25% and a load of legal wrangling, easy scripting, so again save on hiring here, fast way to edit game, so quick output, so answer to quandary, make stylised game, no lighting, add bloom, make sure it works with that multiplayer IP mod, as the game is simple stylised graphics whats in it needs to look right, bloom, motion blur will look nice with the minimalistic style art style, game uses larva as part of the design, so make sure it has water, Gore effect from deaths, will show up nice against the minimalistic style and palette.

Now then, how can I test it for my needs, I'm sure little Johnny who got fpsc for his birthday has all the time in the world, I don't, I don't want to guess, does this work, has it got this, I wonder what the speed is. Or even i wonder where the web site is for it. Do you see the problem here.

Blummin Pervert http://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2010 00:24
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Umm...I think by timer they mean in terms of animations. It still says what the FPS is...

...And you can turn on anti-aliasing in your graphics card...

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Kravenwolf
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2010 00:51 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2010 01:03
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Quote: "No timer system, so how on earth can I check the speed of this"


A timer system doesn't make the game faster. It only makes sure the gameplay is smooth weather it's running at 50 frames per second or 5. Project Green is still optimized, so it can handle larger levels with better performance. You can check the "speed" of your level at the bottom of the screen; FPS: x.

Quote: "Project Green
Bloom? Motion Blur? "


Project Blue V1.6 did not have a full screen shader system, so Project Green does not have Bloom or motion blur. It's also missing:



EDIT: Hmm. I can't seem to find the full feature list for Project Blue after all. I thought I knew where it was. Even sifted through the forum a little bit. I suppose a little more information would be helpful

Kravewolf

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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2010 01:08
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I guess, but he didn't need to go into a rampage like that...

...Still getting used to stuff like this...

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fallen one
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2010 04:51
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Thanks for clearing that up for me Kravenwolf. Does Project blue have water? I wonder how this compares with Fenix, that seems to the other big contender in the mod world.

Blummin Pervert http://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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Kravenwolf
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2010 05:12 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2010 05:16
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I'm pretty sure that Project Blue doesn't have water. But I do know that Hockeykid is now the developer behind Project Blue (as well as Fenix Mod), and unless his plans have changed, he's going to add Fenix mod into Project Blue next update (unless it's already in there). Horror mod was also integrated into Fenix Mod some time ago. So, Project Blue should essentially become a merger of the three biggest mods on the forum.

Kravenwolf

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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2010 07:14 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2010 07:15
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@Fallen One:

You need to stop being ignorant and remind yourself that this mod has now changed hands TWICE in the last 2 months. If you'd check the previous threads and stop acting like it's everybody's obligation to search the entire forum for you because you're too lazy to do it yourself, you might get further in your search.

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fallen one
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2010 08:19
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Thanks Kravenwolf, your my new best friend for the whole of today. See gentlemen, a little info and I'm completely up to speed now, The other two Ive put you on the naught-e step, though toasty did make me laugh so you have perked up the beginnings of my day.

Blummin Pervert http://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 08:15
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Quote: "The other two Ive put you on the naught-e step, though toasty did make me laugh so you have perked up the beginnings of my day."


Did you actually read my post? If you went to a computer shop which had changed hands twice in the past two months things are bound to be a little unorganised

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Lewis
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 17:05 Edited at: 4th Mar 2010 17:07
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@Hockeykid,

I seriously think another team of modders handle Project Blue and you should just do the migration.

All I've seen so far from Project Blue is its integration into FPSC 1.16. There's been no new features, addons, new scripting commands, nothing. (whats worse is that you dont even accept help from other modders to make PB better, which is rather saddening in my oppinion.) You've even said that Project Blue isnt your top priority! How much of a smack to the face is that for those who have bought Project Blue?

Also there has been no Beta testing whatsoever before a public release, which means whatever has been released has the potential to be an unstable release. The FPS slowdown with the latest release has shown this. At least when S4 and Plystire were in charge they actually didnt release anything until they had something that was stable and well beta tested!

I know that being selected by Lee to help with the Migration may be a big deal for you, but dont let that get to your head mate. You're just a TGC member too, remember? There are people that want to help you make PB better, so I think anyone in the given circumstances would take the help when they can and dont put themselves up on a pedestal because they were chosen by one of TGC staff.

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Kravenwolf
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 18:23 Edited at: 4th Mar 2010 18:26
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Quote: "I seriously think another team of modders handle Project Blue and you should just do the migration."


The problem with that is, there isn't really a lot of other modders for Ply to chose from here that wouldn't want to turn Project Blue into another processer-hungry, EFX mod.

I'm a Project Blue user, and I personally, have no problem with the wait. The way that I see it, we're waiting for Hockeykid and Lee to provide us with a large update of migration features, which will later find their way into Project Blue. So I suppose, indirectly, he is working on PB. Though it is rather slow-moving, having one person working on 3 different sources, but in the mean time, I'm just moving forward with my game's story, levels, and everything else. Meh, to each their own.

Kravenwolf

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TerrorNation
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 21:37
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I'm just working on my project too, until Project Blue is merged with Fenix. Then I can add those extra features in later. That's how I see I should do it anyway.
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A r e n a s
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 21:42 Edited at: 4th Mar 2010 21:44
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I am a bit frustrated with the rate at which features are being added. I have offered code for several and it has all been turned down at which i am very disappointed with. What does get me very annoyed is that now, Fenix (a free mod) is nearing the league of PB (which people have payed for).

On the other hand, if there were to be a team of modders, they would need the source code to PB. This would obviously be a very big problem as not everyone out there is as honest as us three (kraven, lewis and myself) and the skilled coders out there may steal it for themselves (not saying that lewis or kraven is not a skilled coder)... Digging myself a pit here :S. I can see where hockeykid would be comming from if he refused your offer lewis.

To be honest, its all in hockeykids control so i dont think that we have the right to tell him what to do.

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TerrorNation
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 21:50
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Is Lewis a DBPro coder?
I didn't realise
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Lewis
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 21:54 Edited at: 4th Mar 2010 21:59
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Quote: "To be honest, its all in hockeykids control so i dont think that we have the right to tell him what to do."


Of course it's all in his control. But was giving the source to Hockeykid the wisest move?

You have to use common sense here. It's not like I am a member that noone even knows about or someone that isnt trusted. Hell, even Lee himself posted in my game thread! And well known members wouldnt be able to take source and claim it as their own without someone knowing it would be Project Blue, I mean come on now, it wouldnt take an idiot to know that having fullscreen shaders and identical commands etc would be a straight rip from PB.

I dont see why he'd refuse help from people who only want to make PB better, unless secretly he doesnt care about Project Blue and where it is headed, and just took charge of Project Blue's source because he wanted the money from people buying it.

It all goes down to selfishness really. It's about who's mod is better, not about the future of FPSC and the development of the engine to make it better, faster and with more things in it.

@TerrorNation,

I do things here and there. I added in video splash screens into Project Blue when S4 and Ply was in charge (Hence the 'Lewis Additions'). I had a few ideas to add into Project blue like Sprinting Animations and some more scripting commands (as well as expanding on some of the airmod simplezoom commands too), but my offer of help was more of less denied, so looks like PB owners wont be getting any more additions from me.

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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 22:02
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Quote: "I dont see why he'd refuse help from people who only want to make PB better, unless secretly he doesnt care about Project Blue and where it is headed, and just took charge of Project Blue's source because he wanted the money from people buying it."


Alright, now you're being a bit cynical... Hockeykid has, in a relatively short period of time, tripled his workload...I can wait.

I would like for it to be faster, yes, but I understand that Hockyekid has a lot on his plate. Maybe he can take a break when the code is on Google SVN. He hasn't abandoned PB... Think about it. You just got recruited to work for they company who's products you've been modding. I most certainly would put my other projects on hold.

Just give Hockeykid some time. I'm sure you have something to do in the meantime.

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Lewis
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 22:07 Edited at: 4th Mar 2010 22:08
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Quote: "Just give Hockeykid some time. I'm sure you have something to do in the meantime. "


I gave the migration some time years back. Look how far it's came until something has eventually been done about it.

Him tripling his workload is up to him. He shouldn't take the responsibility of being in charge of Project Blue if he cant keep up with it, along with having no passion to make it better. Fair enough he's working on the official FPSC, but people have paid for Project Blue, and whats the point in paying for it if the official version of FPSC is going to be better?

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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 22:16
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Quote: "and whats the point in paying for it if the official version of FPSC is going to be better?"


Hey, I don't think the official version is going to be better. Ever.

But think about it. Yes, you paid for it and we all love new features; but you still have new scripting commands, fullscreen shaders, all that good stuff. An update may come slower than before, but you still have many things that people who haven't paid for PB don't.

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CapnBuzz
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 22:23
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I do believe that Hockeykid is fair, but Lewis is right...

I am not a modder, but I am an FPSC 9 user and I have run my own business. So, from that background, a modder who is in business selling his/her mod work while at the same time working for another business entity (TGC) on the "official" upgrade of the FPSC product has a direct conflict of interest. This is not to say that Hockeykid is dishonest. It is only to say that this kind of situation can be unfairly exploited if the person in question is dishonest. A conflict of interest is not an indictment, but it is a caution to community members. This is the very reason that when taking office government officials have to give up investment holdings in companies vying for government contracts. It's an issue of fairness.

If I were in this situation, I would think of stepping down from PB until my work at TGC was finished. I would also think of giving PB over to a modder (or group) who would continue development during the FPSC "migration." That way PB doesn't become stagnant and stays viable. But that's just me. I'm certainly not making any demands or wanting to start a fight. Take it with a grain of salt.
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Lewis
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 22:24
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Quote: "An update may come slower than before, but you still have many things that people who haven't paid for PB don't."


I paid money for PB, so I'd expect that. I'm not 'lucky' that I have PB and these features, as I paid for it, so that shouldnt come into the picture. I'm stressing that instead of one person do all the work, having two or three people in charge of PB instead, as well as accepting additions and help from other modders that are prepared to work hard for nothing at all just to make PB a better tool to use for game developers.

I'm not saying that this should be me or anyone else, I'm just saying that it was a lot better when Ply and S4 was sorting out the releases because they fixed bugs and beta tested a lot faster and more efficiently.

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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 22:31
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Quote: "I'm just saying that it was a lot better when Ply and S4 was sorting out the releases because they fixed bugs and beta tested a lot faster and more efficiently."


Yes, it was faster, but Hockeykid is strung out. It probably was a bad decision to take on that workload, as now each thing is getting x3 less work on it. It might be good for him turn over the work to another modder or group of modders. However, like Kraven said, there aren't many to choose from. Although that may be better than nothing.

Quote: "If I were in this situation, I would think of stepping down from PB until my work at TGC was finished. I would also think of giving PB over to a modder (or group) who would continue development during the FPSC "migration." That way PB doesn't become stagnant and stays viable."


That's a good idea, but again, not many to choose from. I'm not sure who here is as familiar with the FPSC source code, or the PB source code, as Hockeykid is.

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DarkFrost
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 22:33
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Agreed, with Lewis posts.

A change is needed here. Back as a beta tester, betas would be released at a rapid pace. Constantly repairing bugs and adding new additions. The present day for Blue UM seems pathetic, its as if it'll become the next hyped mod that dies similar to Wizmod or Riker. Except this time money is involved.

So, with that I hope to see change, for I am sure many other users agree with the want for a new beginning and more updates.

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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 22:38
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I think Hockeykid should be the head of this...Just not now. I think he should focus on one thing, and when he or TGC feels he is done with that, come back to PB and work on it. And I think he can pull off having both Fenix mod and PB. Think:

Hockeykid makes a neat new feature. He puts it in PB and Fenix mod.

He makes a really cool new feature he worked really hard on. He puts in PB, but not Fenix mod.

But for now, yes, I think he should temporarily step down from PB.

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TerrorNation
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 22:38
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Hockeykid is a very busy guy. He obviously likes to do a lot of work by himself, which is not a bad thing at all (a bit like me ).
But I think it would reduce his stress and workload if he hired some more modders.

Quote: "
I paid money for PB, so I'd expect that. I'm not 'lucky' that I have PB and these features, as I paid for it, so that shouldnt come into the picture. I'm stressing that instead of one person do all the work, having two or three people in charge of PB instead, as well as accepting additions and help from other modders that are prepared to work hard for nothing at all just to make PB a better tool to use for game developers."

I agree. 3 large projects for one guy is too much I think.
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BlackFox
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 22:49 Edited at: 4th Mar 2010 22:51
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Quote: "That's a good idea, but again, not many to choose from. I'm not sure who here is as familiar with the FPSC source code, or the PB source code, as Hockeykid is."


There are some of us that are familiar with the FPSC source, as well as PB source.

@ Lewis

Quote: "but my offer of help was more of less denied, so looks like PB owners wont be getting any more additions from me."


I'm hoping that this did not happen when Cathy and I were involved. Had we received this info at the time we had the project, we most certainly would have jumped on your help.

@ CapnBuzz

Quote: "If I were in this situation, I would think of stepping down from PB until my work at TGC was finished. I would also think of giving PB over to a modder (or group) who would continue development during the FPSC "migration." That way PB doesn't become stagnant and stays viable. But that's just me."


Not just you, my friend. I too share this point, which is why Cathy and I stepped down from Project Blue. We had an offer that would have been a conflict of interest, and we felt it was not fair to the PB users if we had little time for a project we were running.

As we had our time looking after Project Blue, I certainly can understand everyone's point of view. However, for what this is worth, I'd like to offer this point. It is easy to sit looking in and seeing what you see. It's the "behind-the-scenes" activities that most of us do not see or are aware of. I'm certain that Ply and Hockeykid will get things rolling. It takes time to sort out schedules and shift everything into some sort of schedule, even when you have multiple projects on the table. HockeyKid can make his mind up, his choices will dictate the course of the project.

Cheers

Mike

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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 23:33
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It hasn't been that long since Hockeykid released PB v1.8a but the only thing he has confirmed since then is that his priority is the official FPSC engine then PB and Fenix last.

I would like to see him post a development plan at least so we know what to expect. I'm assuming the 1.8a is because this won't be the final V116 release.

I think Hockeykid should just add Dark AI and Particles then do as much bug fixing as he can for v1.8 final as those 2 features just need to be migrated from Fenix and would really add some value.

PB v1.9 can then be released on the FPSC v117 source once its finished so we get ragdoll thrown in. That would give us a very tidy toolset providing he can implement everything smoothly with good performance.

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Plystire
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Omg... I walk away for a day and something like this happens. Good thing Kraven skyped me about this, I can't believe the mess that has been made here!


Let's just step back for a moment and think about what's been said and how it relates to what's going on. Perhaps come more information on the timeline of things will help clear some of this up.


Hockeykid did not "take" Project Blue. It was offered to him by me when the only responsibility he had was to Fenix Mod. "Was hockeykid a wise choice?" Thus far, I'd say he has made a better replacement than any other modder on this board would have! Let me just make that clear: I did not choose hockeykid without a good reason. I thought long and hard about how I was going to free up time for my other concerns in life, because I obviously needed to leave Project Blue for a while and I didn't want to leave the people who bought it hanging around with no more updates... but looking at how everyone is acting, perhaps I should have. Would you all have been happier if I had left you with V1.7 and a "promise" that I would eventually come back some time in the distant future? It was stable... it had great features... but from my past experience with this community, no one seems to be satisfied with something that is set in stone! Everyone wants updates, everyone wants new features, everyone wants EVERYTHING without cost and without penalty to the framerate!! That seems to be the biggest issue with this community (stares at fallen one) you want it all and take no moment to even remotely conceive the amount of work it would take to get it, let alone the drawbacks that it would mean. Not every game out today uses everything that you're asking from the modders here! I've played PS3 games that had water WITHOUT reflections and WITHOUT refractions! I just recently played Halo ODST on a nice big plasma screen, hooked up with an HDMI cable... know what I noticed? Probably not... but you've been noticing it with FPSC since day one!! It had no anti-aliasing, no anisotropic filtering!! The edges were as jagged as a cerated steak knife!!! Does it matter to all the gamers out there playing it? No. They get along just fine without it. Why don't you???

Let me put this into perspective for everyone.

Let's compile the stock source code with a timer system installed and see how well it runs on my MONSTER computer...

285 fps

Add a bunch of script commands to let people script nice features into their games.

263 fps

Add dual wielding

253 fps

Let's optimize it a little bit...

268 fps

Let's put in some water ...

231 fps

... with reflections ...

205 fps

... and refractions ...

178 fps

Now bloom...

140 fps

... better bloom ...

125 fps

... and motion blur ...

108 fps

... better motion blur ...

98 fps

... Now, everyone hates the broken lighting system that effects entities through walls... gotta add in a raycast to fix that...

50 - 88 fps (Depending on how many entities and lights are in the level)


So.... what we've essentially done is add in all this crap that isn't even necessary for a game, only to bring down performance MASSIVELY.

Now people want even more features!! They want ragdoll! They want terrain! They want to have massive battles with 100 characters running around at once, each with it's own UNIQUE AI!


Do we stop to think about what the framerate will be like afterwards? Few do.

Are we going to do it ourselves? Heck no. We'll yell at Lee and the modders to get it done! Why should we waste OUR time learning how to mod FPSC when they already know?? Am I being condescending? Yes. Accurate? For the majority.


To get this straight, hockeykid did not take up Project Blue just to make money from it. He took it up because I asked him nicely to, because he was a better option than anyone else here. I'm going to be really mean right here, okay? If you don't want feelings to get hurt, skip over the following italicized text please. ............. Would I have picked Knxrb? No. I've seen his code. He refuses to properly indent, making it practically impossible to debug or even read what's going on. The last feature we received from him was so horribly written that I had to rewrite 80% of it myself anyway to optimize it and have it not breaking all of the time. What about Scene Commander? No. He may or may not be a good coder, and he has kept up his little modding database, but I don't personally know him. What I know about him is that he had a Mod and it's no longer being maintained. I can't give Project Blue to someone that isn't already renowned for their Mod, but I kept him on the list anyway just in case I couldn't think of anyone better. WizzKid? ApplieSlicer? SOMEONE from the WizMod team? Definitely not. The mod was going downhill from the start and against all of my warnings in their very own thread, they ignored it and allowed it to die, probably fighting amongst themselves. What about Lewis? I have no idea what Lewis is capable of, to be honest. He wrote some code for us that was alright, but that's all I ever saw/recall of his coding ability. I don't recall him making a Mod and maintaining one, so I wouldn't know if he's capable of such a thing.

So you ask "Was hockeykid the wisest choice?" Out of the selection given, I'd dare say he is.

What were the pros about him that made me choose him? He has a Mod. He works very hard on it. He wants to mod FPSC, not for money, but for experience and for praise (we all like to be praised for our efforts, don't deny it ) hence why his Mod was and is FREE. On top of this, he had recently obtained Horror Mod (with a bit of help from myself) so he is now owner of two of the more well known Mods on the boards. The "UM" in PBUM stands for "Ultimate Mod"... well, to keep that notion alive, having him take over would mean Fenix and Horror Mod would then be integrated into PB in due time and it would continue to be the greatest Mod of this great community. He has good work ethic, has never taken any of my features without permission (even though he HAD my source and free access to it)

And now that he has an awesome opportunity to HELP Lee bring everyone an official release FASTER and actually GET the migration work done, the once peaceful PB users are starting to panic! WHY?! I told Lee he could use any of my additions to Project Blue, but do I honestly expect him to take EVERYTHING from PB? No. That's way too much testing that would need to be done to test everything here. I wanted him to put in the full screen shader system that I created, specifically for the purpose of fixing a bug that I myself could not fix. I told him to use it because I hope that he will be able to bring you guys something better than what I could. He would be able to get the bugs fixed that I could not. Why are you being so adamant about preventing this? PB is not going to die, it will not suddenly become free for everyone in the official version.

Cut hockeykid some slack. He has a great opportunity here and even though it's conflicting with PB, you guys are acting as though the world is coming to an end!

Do I think PB should be handed over to someone else to work on? Maybe. It may get things done in PB faster, but hockeykid already knows most of the ins and outs of the features in PB. Whoever picks it up next is going to have a massive list of additions to sift through and figure out. Handing it off may take even longer.

I still don't have enough time to dedicate to PB. My company is scheduled to launch this month if all goes well, and I need to give it all of my time to make sure it goes as well as it can. Perhaps much later, I will have some free time to pour back into PB, but it's not now.


Quote: "I'm stressing that instead of one person do all the work, having two or three people in charge of PB instead, as well as accepting additions and help from other modders that are prepared to work hard for nothing at all just to make PB a better tool to use for game developers"


More developers is not the answer. When S4 and myself were in charge, S4 rarely ever did any developing. I did 99% of it myself. Lemur failed because we had 4 people making code for this Mod and no one ever got around to merging it all together. Some people just weren't ready for a merge with their code, some people weren't keeping up to date, so for the most part, nothing was really getting done. There were 4 sources being created, so essentially 4 Mods. Know what they were? You guessed it; AirMod, Ply's Mod, S4Mod, and "Lemur" (which honestly didn't have much at all).
With DBP, there is no SourceSafe, there are no header files, no OOP to worry about... there is ONE file that needs editing and that's it. Hence why having one person coding is typically the better way to go.


Quote: "I am a bit frustrated with the rate at which features are being added. I have offered code for several and it has all been turned down at which i am very disappointed with. What does get me very annoyed is that now, Fenix (a free mod) is nearing the league of PB (which people have payed for)."


1) Whether or not your supplied code makes it into the Mod is up to the developer. To be perfectly honest, I had no clue Lewis' code made it into PB. S4 did that without telling me. I inspected the code and approved it after a bit of tweaking. He did the same for Knxrb's code... after inspecting it, I immediately wanted to just take it out altogether! S4 wanted to keep it in because there were a bunch of people wanting the feature... so I spent the next few hours rewriting it all. Would I do it again? No. If people want their code to make it into this Mod, I would expect it to be well written, well FORMATTED, and optimized. If you feel it is, go ahead and submit it.
I have no idea how hockeykid does it now, or if he's even accepting code donations. If he isn't, then that is his prerogative and we should accept it.

2) If Fenix were nearing the level of PB, hockeykid would have had no reason to accept working on PB. PB and Fenix Mod are two entirely different entities and boast vastly different feature lists. But let me point out one thing for you. While Fenix Mod has a long list of features, hockeykid also had listed out every single script command that he added. If I had done that for PB, no one would want to even look at the first post because it'd be so cluttered and long. So, I sum it up with "expansive FPI command additions". The manual for PB has been posted up someplace before, most likely in the previous PB thread, but you could just as easily go download that and view for yourself everything contained herein.



I'm going to stop typing now. Hopefully everyone gets the picture. Hockeykid took an opportunity that he felt was in his best interest, and just because of that don't start shouting "Witch!" readying your pitchforks and flaming cross simply because he's semi-officially (not sure if he is or not) on the TGC team.


The one and only,


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bond1
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 02:03
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I can't possibly make my game without bloom. Bright, eye-bleeding bloom on everything. And motion blur. My game won't look "next-gen" until the whole damn screen is a bright, blurry mess.


Great post Plystire, it had to be said. Someone had to step up and be the parent. I enjoyed reading it.

----------------------------------------
"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
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fallen one
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 02:11 Edited at: 5th Mar 2010 02:35
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Quote: "(stares at fallen one)"

While you was getting E-motion-all, you was missing what I said, frame rates, antialias, blar blar, un moddded fpsc, not this mod or any other, hence, Ive been following (vannilla fpsc) not PB, seeing if it can be put to use yet, now mods are here, then perhaps it can, so I ask about what it does, I dont follow with my nose sniffing every tommy squeaker from fpsc as I'm sure some of you do, as its product for sale, I feel its quite alright to ask about it, if I find whats presented lacking in detail for the prospective customer.

Quote: "Bond1 I can't possibly make my game without bloom. Bright, eye-bleeding bloom on everything. And motion blur. My game won't look "next-gen" until the whole damn screen is a bright, blurry mess."


I sense ego here, big fish minuscule pond perhaps yes? Are you referring to me Bond1, if you 'read' my post you will see it states, stylised, that means abstracted.

Here's a link for the 'hard of thinking' if ewe are finding it hard to understand my overstand.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_art

You can also go and read my 'old' thread on games design and not following micro realism game models of design. Written long before the term next gen was to be parroted et all.

Independent games - Are you making what the public really want?
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=21&t=132136&p=1

Here is an excerpt on design style

Impressionism.

Yes that's right, realism art ended and and new forms emerged, guess what, you don't have to make literalist, realism, it looks just like real life (c) games, its like video game makers only understand photographs and any graphical representations throw their heads out of whack.

See this web page here, it will sort your head box out.
Videogame Aesthetics: We're All Going to Die!
http://modetwo.net/users/nachimir/vga/

Blummin Pervert http://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 02:19
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Wow... biggest TGC post I've ever read

Would it be possible for PBUM's code to be given to Lee as well as Hockeykid? It makes more sense to me that way.

Your signature has been erased by a mod - Please reduce it to 600x120 maximum size
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bond1
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 02:40
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What the heck was that all about? Did you just call me a fish?

You can make your game in whatever art style you want. I like zombies.

----------------------------------------
"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
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DarkFrost
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 02:49
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Okay, okay nows the time where everyone should put this arguing to an end.

From here on posts seen should be positive and on topic.

Flaming about this topic will only worsen the situation, currently at hand. Patience is key here and I rather not have this mod fade out. I apologize for sounding like a mod, yet I agree with ply in many ways and what bond said about someone being the parent.

Anyways lets fix this thread fellow members, and try not to flame Blue UM to ashes

[img][/img]
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fallen one
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 03:00 Edited at: 5th Mar 2010 03:02
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Quote: "Bond1 Did you just call me a fish?"

God that made me laugh out loud. Has anybody in the history of the world since time memorial ever said in a single sentence " Did you just call me a fish?" You seem to have problems with language, metaphor seems lost on you, Ive also noticed from speaking to you statements and questions confuse you, you ship mate have got more fishy fingers than Captain Birdseye.

Blummin Pervert http://www.avantivitastudios.com/
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zeza
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 03:21
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Well done Ply, it needed to be said.

Hope This Helps
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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 04:01
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@plystire

I have something to say...

THANK YOU!

That's what I've been saying! Yes, new updates are neat, but PB is still worth it! And, sorry Lewis, but do you really think Hockeykid was only doing this for the money?

Well said Ply. Couldn't have said it better myself.

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Lewis
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 04:21 Edited at: 5th Mar 2010 04:23
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Quote: "That's what I've been saying! Yes, new updates are neat, but PB is still worth it! And, sorry Lewis, but do you really think Hockeykid was only doing this for the money?"


Well I couldnt piece together why he wouldn't refuse help off other people and then make PB his second priority. It seemed to me like he was trying to push PB aside and just focus on sales.

And about my ability to code Ply: I wasnt saying that I wanted to take charge of the mod. I would definatley not be capable of such a thing, But I know for a fact that having two mods and the official version on your plate is a big task for anyone which is why I suggested it to be handed over to a TEAM to be looked after instead. When I offer code to be added, I create an in depth tutorial on how to add the code to make sure that it is added properly. I also comment whatever I have added so it's easy to find whatever is added. HK knows this so I dont see why my help should be denied.

I had an idea like the 'Google code' feature that Lee was talking about, but only so the developers of PB can see what has been submitted. Once a user submits a feature or a piece of code, the developer of PB can look at it, see if its a feature worth having and then follows the tutorial written by the submitter on how to add it. That way our help can be accepted without actually seeing PB's source (if that is what is scaring Hockeykid so much).

Something does need to be done about PB though because I just want to see the mod bigger and better! I dont want to see PB die out, that's all.

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Hockeykid
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 06:45 Edited at: 5th Mar 2010 07:03
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Honestly I am appalled by what I came home to see.

@Lewis honestly I find it a little strange that you bring all of this hostility here after you ask for the source code to UM and I turn it down.

Quote: " There's been no new features, addons, new scripting commands, nothing. "


Yes simply because this feature list that I promised was actually every single feature from the migration. I did this because I thought Lee had given up but now that he's back and I'm working on the migration with him whats the point of doing everything twice.

Honestly it would not be fair to integrate the current migration code that has not been released yet.

Quote: "It all goes down to selfishness really. It's about who's mod is better, not about the future of FPSC and the development of the engine to make it better, faster and with more things in it."


If I were selfish and only in this for the money, then why would I have made Fenix Mod free? Why would I take everything I worked on from Fenix mod add it into PB and keep it's price the same?

"I'll send you the link via email. I dont want to show publically because then theres gonna be a whole bunch of other games with the same textures if I'm not careful."

Irony?

Quote: "You've even said that Project Blue isnt your top priority! How much of a smack to the face is that for those who have bought Project Blue?"


As Kraven said, all my work on the migration will find its way into Project Blue. I wonder, What would everyone that doesn't own PB think if I told them I was going to put the migration on hold to make all of the migration features availble in Project Blue first, and then turn right around and add the same ones right into the migration.

Think of this when the migration is finished Project Blue will have rag doll, Dark AI, etc....

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Lewis
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 07:27 Edited at: 5th Mar 2010 07:31
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Quote: "@Lewis honestly I find it a little strange that you bring all of this hostility here after you ask for the source code to UM and I turn it down."


Why do you think I wanted it? For my own personal use? I wanted it TO HELP YOU MAKE PROJECT BLUE BETTER. Are you that so enclosed to see that or what? Or do you think that you have to be the only one to have the source to make you some kind of demi god above all other modders?

It's not even about that anyway. I couldnt care less if you gave me the source or not. I care more about the fact that you deny all help to make PB better. I only wanted to use PB so I could make the commands a lot easier to send to you. I told you this myself. Missed that part out eh, didnt you? If you are going to say something like that to try and make me look like the bad guy, get your facts straight first.

Quote: "If I were selfish and only in this for the money, then why would I have made Fenix Mod free? Why would I take everything I worked on from Fenix mod add it into PB and keep it's price the same?"


Then why do you insist on being a lone ranger when developing Project Blue? There are others here that share the same passion as you to make FPSC better, yet you completely ignore them.

Quote: " Irony?"


That is about Alpha Project, not Project Blue. Way to go in taking something completely in another thread out of context, congratulations!

Quote: "As Kraven said, all my work on the migration will find its way into Project Blue. I wonder, What would everyone that doesn't own PB think if I told them I was going to put the migration on hold to make all of the migration features availble in Project Blue first, and then turn right around and add the same ones right into the migration."


Well how about instead of juggling 3 projects, you let other people work on it while you work on the migration? That way you're not neglecting any projects.

Quote: "Think of this when the migration is finished Project Blue will have rag doll, Dark AI, etc.... "


Well In the meantime I suggest that you hand over Project Blue to other developers that can work on/optimize it so it's not buggy and is stable for the features that you are working on the migration to add.

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charger bandit
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 07:49
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What the hell are you guys even fighting about? If you have problems with stable PB,use 1.7 final.Let hockeykid work on the migration and leave PB aside.Then once he integrates most of the stuff into migration he can focus on what to do with the mod.


A.K.A djmaster
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Plystire
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 08:01 Edited at: 5th Mar 2010 08:06
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Both of you, just stop. Everything being said is unnecessary and not pertinent here.

If optimizations and bugs are the problem, I don't see why hockeykid would deny sending people V1.7 for use if they are having too many problems with v1.8a.

As for your coding ability, Lewis, I have no clue how you handle those things since, as I stated, S4 handled the entire thing. I saw nothing aside from what magically appeared inside the source that I received from S4.


@fallen one:
You, more than the others, need to stop making such posts.

Quote: "You seem to have problems with language, metaphor seems lost on you, Ive also noticed from speaking to you statements and questions confuse you, you ship mate have got more fishy fingers than Captain Birdseye."


If you're going to bash someone about misunderstanding a metaphor (which I believe it was completely obvious that he got it and was only evading a direct confrontation) you might want to clean up your grammar to prevent any further misunderstandings.

As for you, I don't believe you got what I was saying to you. You're expecting from FPSC what many commercial AAA titles still lack, and lack for good reason. There is a trade-off for adding a feature or putting it in. If you have it in, you get its obvious benefits, but you're also losing precious engine speed. Anti-aliasing, for whatever, has been left out of MANY games. They're the pros, I am not one to judge why they decided to leave it out, but I am willing to bet they did for good reason.
For FPSC to be capable of everything and anything, you need to understand the drawbacks of those.

Get it now?

If I was on my home computer I would upload a copy of the manual for you. I know it is attached elsewhere though, so you will have to go find it yourself. I gave you a lead by stating that it may be in the old PB thread, but you must have skimmed over that for whatever reason. Perhaps boredom or pure laziness as I have been sensing from your previous posts.



Seriously, guys, I shouldn't have to come in here and repeat to everyone to stop bickering about whatever nonsense.



The one and only,


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CapnBuzz
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 08:17 Edited at: 5th Mar 2010 09:01
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Ok, I hope everyone might take a moment to *take a breath*.

@ Lewis. I'm sorry that your help was not needed on PB at the time. When I made films people were always trying to help, and it's hard to tell them "no" when they have such enthusiasm. It's tough to say "no thanks" and hurt their feelings, but too many people in a process can sometimes slow it to a crawl -- too much help can sometimes be counter-productive. Ever hear of too many cooks in the kitchen? Please try and keep that in mind.

@ Plystire. Did we all walk in on something? I think most of the people posting here are just wanting to make certain that PB continues development and are hoping to get some idea of the process. Hockeykid just took the reins at PB and for those who have spent money (the same cost as FPSC) it's bit of a letdown... not his skill or work, but his demanding workload on the "migration" for TGC.

Yes, a community will ask for the world. It's the modder's job (in a commercial situation) to temper their expectations. A list of additions and a general schedule do great for this! Remember, this is the same worry that came up in the "migration" thread between the community and TGC. Commuunication works wonders to "cure" this.

@ Hockeykid. I know everyone appreciates your hard work on FPSC, Fenix, and PB. Without your skill and hard work, Lee wouldn't be able to pull off the migration in a timely manner. For that I personally thank you. I was simply suggesting that you might have someone else working on PB until you come back from the "migration." As for conflicts of interest, I'm uncertain how you and Lee would work that issue, but I'm sure you'll figure things out.

Folks, let's get back to making games!
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Marc Steene
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 08:29
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Plystire's Post Word Count: 2058

I think the manual needs to be updated, there are some commands in there which weren't added due to AirMod having similar codes, and other commands such as keypressed= aren't documented.


[b]FPSC MIGRATION: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 10:27 Edited at: 5th Mar 2010 10:29
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Quote: "What about Scene Commander? No. He may or may not be a good coder, and he has kept up his little modding database, but I don't personally know him. What I know about him is that he had a Mod and it's no longer being maintained. I can't give Project Blue to someone that isn't already renowned for their Mod, but I kept him on the list anyway just in case I couldn't think of anyone better"


Plystire, no offense taken and of course we don't know each other. I would have to say that had you offered I would have had to say thanks but no thanks.

The main reason WASP mod isn't being maintained any longer is that I set about writing a free mod and after 500+ downloads the level of appreciation was almost zero. I didn't expect money but a word of thanks would have been nice. This incidentally also applies to the Modder's Resource Database which I am still updating when I have time, but only two people have donated code for what I hoped would be a useful project and I, like other people have real world issues to deal with and don't have the time to update something I don't feel people are using.

I have to be honest and say that I trying to avoid posting on these forums these days because the level of rudeness has become so great that I just get too angry. I just wanted to comment on what you said.

@HockeyKid.

I for one appreciate what you are doing, I can wait for updates to PB and honestly feel that work on the migration should take priority over everything else as it is for the community as a whole. Good luck with it.
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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 12:48
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@Hockeykid AND @Lewis

Alright, I know I'm one person, but this is my two cents:

I appreciate what you are doing, Hockeykid, and Lewis in my opinion has been a bit hostile, but I personally hate fighting overall. Let's all settle down, and have an amicable discussion. You each have valid points. Let's just not yell them.

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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 15:35
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All I want is Project Blue + Fenix + Horror + FPSC v117 Integration

Is that so much to ask?

I think the best approach would be Hockeykid providing updates and Ply reviewing his code changes and optimising the code for stability. Then betas should be sent to all paid users to test and provide feedback so they don't have to wait so long for updates. Also there will only be 2 modders working on PB which is manageable and its customers get a better service / product.

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Lewis
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 15:44
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Quote: "I think the best approach would be Hockeykid providing updates and Ply reviewing his code changes and optimising the code for stability. Then betas should be sent to all paid users to test and provide feedback so they don't have to wait so long for updates. Also there will only be 2 modders working on PB which is manageable and its customers get a better service / product."


Seconded.

For the respect of everyone here, I'm going to stop arguing. But, just so everyone knows, I was stressing my points for the good of Project Blue, not for any other reason. I just hope that Project Blue turns out to be the mod that we could only imagine it to be.

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TerrorNation
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 18:02
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I think we should just stop rushing these modders.
It takes them a LOT of time to give us a great product, and hey, a later update is not going to stop me from working on my game!
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Hockeykid
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 19:23 Edited at: 14th Mar 2010 01:11
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Quote: "All I want is Project Blue + Fenix + Horror + FPSC v117 Integration"


No no its not, and thats been my plan from day 1 has it not?

Quote: "Ply reviewing his code changes and optimising the code for stability. "


To be honest that would be very inconvenient for Ply and I'm pretty sure Ply trust me as a programmer, after all he is the one that taught me everything I know

Quote: "@HockeyKid.

I for one appreciate what you are doing, I can wait for updates to PB and honestly feel that work on the migration should take priority over everything else as it is for the community as a whole. Good luck with it."


Thank you

Quote: "Folks, let's get back to making games!"


Agreed! Its time to get a mod in here and clean up this messy thread.


Hockeykid

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TerrorNation
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 19:39
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Quote: "Agreed! Its time to get a mod in here and clean up this messy thread."

Definitely so.
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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 20:21
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Just WOW




I think you do fine, Hockeykid. You are a great programmer, maybe you should start working on something "non-FPSC"

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