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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / TGC App Developers Group

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baxslash
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 13:42
Quote: "I forgot to mention this, the other day I was scrolling through the top rated in the AppUp store and noticed "The Last Stand" was there. So I counted what position it was and 11th, well done."

Yeah, I'm not sure how the ratings system works as I have around 180 downloads and 3 or 4 ratings so it must be percentage driven. I did do one of the ratings myself (shameless I know) but it got the app noticed a little more so I frankly don't care if it makes me evil in some peoples eyes.

There is a free demo version that people can try before they buy the full version so I don't see the harm, besides which they could always just not keep the App after a few tries...

I think a developer spotted it and gave me a bad review on the demo version, I know it's not a great thing to do but it's not like you can't ask for your money back.

Lucas Tiridath
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 14:01 Edited at: 11th Jul 2011 14:10
Quote: "An aside (to Lucas): you already knew that your sig pic is smaller than the max 600x120 allowed right?"

Eh? But my banner is 600x120. I made it from the file baxslash gave us to work with. I even have the png in front of me! Hmmm I do have a theory though. Let's see if this has made it full size....

EDIT: Haha, another triumph of software engineering. My banner now appears correctly. Thanks for pointing that out.

And baxslash, I wouldn't worry about the review. People can be really harsh when they're hidden behind an alius but in the end, you're the guy with 1700+ downloads. People often don't review things they like because they take them for granted but the numbers really should do the talking here. I mean, would that many people really download a game that "sucks"??

Hodgey
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 14:24
Quote: "I did do one of the ratings myself"

I'd review my own app as well. If I had a development team I would get each one of them to review the app and give it 5/5 stars . Just be careful if you plan to develop for iOS though, I hear Apple keeps track of this kind of thing and they don't like it.

baxslash
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 14:27
Quote: "Just be careful if you plan to develop for iOS though, I hear Apple keeps track of this kind of thing and they don't like it."

Note to self, review iPhone apps on a different friend's iPhone each time...

Hodgey
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 14:43 Edited at: 11th Jul 2011 14:51
Quote: "Note to self, review iPhone apps on a different friend's iPhone each time"

So long as you use a different account it may be ok but that'll work to .

Edit
Oh yeah, even though I haven't seen it yet, thanks for setting up a website Batvink! I'm sure it will be nothing short of spectacular!

baxslash
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 14:58
Quote: "I'm sure it will be nothing short of spectacular!"

We'll try but it's very early days... day even

Hodgey
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 15:10
Quote: "We'll try but it's very early days... day even"

"Do or do not...there is no try" - Master Yoda, but preferably "do".

Back to the multiple monitors dll, should I suggest it to IanM to add to his Matrix1 plugin? Because if he does decide to add it, it then becomes available to everyone who uses his plugin and he may even add more commands related to the subject.

baxslash
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 15:11
Forgot my Jedi training... won't happen again.

baxslash
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 15:16
Quote: "Back to the multiple monitors dll, should I suggest it to IanM to add to his Matrix1 plugin? Because if he does decide to add it, it then becomes available to everyone who uses his plugin and he may even add more commands related to the subject."

Yes, good idea. Forgot to actually answer your question.

The Slayer
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 15:16
Quote: "TheSlayer, the images look excellent, can you send me what you have and I'll see how I can add them."

Consider it done, baxslash. Thanks!
I changed the design a bit. What do you guyz think about the colours? Is this better?



Quote: "Slayer is that website design an actual website or a design concept? Either way it looks very nice."

Actually, its both. Its a fully working website (offline), and it was to show the design at the same time.
I can export the images seperatly, or the whole website with code.

Also, what do you guyz think, should we have one whole page per game/app?

Quote: "If anyone wants to save me some time could you send me a few (no more than 5) screenshots from your published games at around 800x468? Thanks!"

Don't you think that would be too large, baxslash?

I also added a page for WIP/downloads.

Hodgey
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 15:19 Edited at: 11th Jul 2011 15:21
You always find the best comebacks to my not-so-funny jokes, I applaud you Baxslash. (closest I could get to a salute).

Edit
@ Baxslash, I'll go ask him now.

@ The Slayer, very nice, Veeerry Nice!

baxslash
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 15:23
Quote: "Don't you think that would be too large, baxslash?"

I'd rather have a large image I can make smaller than a small image I can't make larger.

I like it

Once I get the files I'll look at getting it online so people can have a look and give some opinions. I figure we could set up some developer pages without too much difficulty actually but I'll start simple for now...

Hodgey
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 15:42
Quote: "Also, what do you guyz think, should we have one whole page per game/app?"

You could but this can be added later. As the number of apps grow, the harder it will be for one person to maintain the website and this is where we go to the idea that Baxslash mentioned, developer pages.

Before you guys get too far into development and I'm sure you have already thought of this but just in case, we should develop the site like we develop our apps, for netbooks.

baxslash
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 15:48
Quote: "You could but this can be added later. As the number of apps grow, the harder it will be for one person to maintain the website and this is where we go to the idea that Baxslash mentioned, developer pages."

I'm considering allowing developers admin access to their own pages so they can edit the text etc. but any changes would be moderated to ensure we kept a standard level of language and content.

Quote: "Before you guys get too far into development and I'm sure you have already thought of this but just in case, we should develop the site like we develop our apps, for netbooks."

I'll be making the website work nicely on my own netbook just to be sure this is the case, have no fear.

mr_d
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 17:28
good comments, ideas, and progress all round. this leaves nothing for me to add (or complain about )

BatVink
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Posted: 11th Jul 2011 18:30
Quote: "Also, what do you guyz think, should we have one whole page per game/app?"


The system in test at the moment is based on CMS, so the publishing process would most likely be to create a full page, of which an extract is published to the front page.

Hodgey
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 01:21
Quote: "have no fear"

Now I forgot my jedi training

Quote: "The system in test at the moment is based on CMS, so the publishing process would most likely be to create a full page, of which an extract is published to the front page."

I like that idea and I'm assuming each of us will have our own account on the website as well?

baxslash
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 01:23 Edited at: 12th Jul 2011 01:24
I finally got some annoying bugs squashed and nearly have a playable 2 player game for "Vs". I have a lot of media to add as well as weapons but the 'basics' are working really well now.

I'll upload a new demo as soon as I have enough content added to make it worthwhile (including a bit more audio mainly for the 'characters').

Here's a little screen from the test level I'm using:

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Hodgey
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 01:27 Edited at: 12th Jul 2011 01:27
Looking...*checks dictionary for new adjectives*...recherche (bet you'll have to look that one up).

edit- Is that true fps now or still loops per second?

baxslash
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 01:54
Quote: "Looking...*checks dictionary for new adjectives*...recherche (bet you'll have to look that one up). "

Thanks, and yes I did!

Quote: "edit- Is that true fps now or still loops per second?"

Yes that's fps capped at 60. Just tried it uncapped and I get between 80 and 140 (I'd guess between 40 and 80 on the netbook but I must test properly soon). Should be fine I think as I'm not adding much more to the loop and I haven't optimised it yet.

Hodgey
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 02:17
Are you using the "decouple the display loop" technique?

Quote: "I haven't optimised it yet."

If it performs that well and isn't even optimised yet I think your game will be fine when it comes to performance.

baxslash
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 09:08
Quote: "Are you using the "decouple the display loop" technique?"

Not at the moment but it's easy enough to re-impliment it if needed.

Quote: "If it performs that well and isn't even optimised yet I think your game will be fine when it comes to performance."

I think so, I guess I'll try to test soon...

Hodgey
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 10:43 Edited at: 12th Jul 2011 10:44
Quote: "Not at the moment but it's easy enough to re-impliment it if needed."

Is it just contolling how many times the sync command is called each second or have you just structured your code for really easy implementation and re-implementation?

And just out of curiosity what is your avatar a picture of besides a guy with a knife in his head, anything specific?

baxslash
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 10:56
Quote: "Is it just contolling how many times the sync command is called each second or have you just structured your code for really easy implementation and re-implementation?"

Yes, basically I have an "if" control around my display sub-routines and functions which I can just uncomment to re-impliment it. It just checks a value from IanM's hitimer() command and runs the display loop when the value is reached. I get a more consistant game if I just use sync however and only use de-coupling to check how fast the game loop is running.

Seems to be display that slows this game down but some of that loop is unoptimised as I said...

Quote: "And just out of curiosity what is your avatar a picture of besides a guy with a knife in his head, anything specific?"

It's me with my head on an Anvil for a promotional photo taken at a forge I used to work at but I zombified myself on some program I found on the net. I think I did it when The Last Stand was being developed but maybe it's time for a new avatar...

Hodgey
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 11:44
Quote: "It's me with my head on an Anvil for a promotional photo taken at a forge I used to work at but I zombified myself on some program I found on the net. I think I did it when The Last Stand was being developed but maybe it's time for a new avatar..."

Oh it's a picture of you!, with a few adjustments. You bare similar resemblence to one of my friends at school, who is also in my software development class. If I put glasses on him and stuck a knife in his forehead he would look very much like your avatar.

I have a question for you guys in general, when you program your games/apps and use a for-loop, do you use a single letter to hold the iteration number or do you give it a meaningful name. Basically do you use 1 or 2
1. for n = 1 to somenumber
2. for something_meaningful to somenumber

I know it makes no difference but for the sake documenation which one do you use?

baxslash
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 11:55
I tend to use shorter names wherever possible and if it's not too confusing. Longer names are best saved for something where it gets complicated IMO.

BTW I don't actually wear glasses, those are safety goggles. New avatar in progress using one of my Vs characters!

Hodgey
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 12:13
Quote: "I tend to use shorter names wherever possible and if it's not too confusing. Longer names are best saved for something where it gets complicated IMO."

That's what I like to do as well but maybe for this one project I have to do for school, I'm using Radar Invaders, I may have to put up with length names, just so the markers understand what each piece of code does without too much trouble.

Quote: "BTW I don't actually wear glasses, those are safety goggles. New avatar in progress using one of my Vs characters!"

I thought they were those huge lens glasses scientists wear, oh wait.

Lucas Tiridath
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 12:17
Quote: "when you program your games/apps and use a for-loop, do you use a single letter to hold the iteration number or do you give it a meaningful name"

For some reason, although I give long meaningful variable names to everything else, when I'm using a loop, I always use a single letter. I start with c and then if I have loops within that, I just go from there (d, e, f etc.) But then my programming style is a weird hybrid of Alistair Stewart's style (read too many of those hands on ... books) and of the style of my old slightly psychotic Computing Science teacher's.

mr_d
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 12:29 Edited at: 12th Jul 2011 12:29
Quote: "I have a question for you guys in general, when you program your games/apps and use a for-loop, do you use a single letter to hold the iteration number or do you give it a meaningful name. Basically do you use 1 or 2
1. for n = 1 to somenumber
2. for something_meaningful to somenumber"

I used to just use the single letter version (e.g. i was my favorite letter to use - then n).
I now try to use more meaningful names (even if it's only a single word) like Counter or Index. Of course I use the leading type signifier as well, e.g. iCounter (for an integer value), or lIndex (for a long value). I find it helps puts my mind in the right space of determining what the loop is used for, e.g. I would use lIndex if I had an array that I needed to traverse, and iCounter if I needed to keep track of a continually increasing or decreasing value...
I find it also helps if you need to trace a variable that you pass to another function as well..
Probably too much information hey? Aren't you sorry you asked

Hodgey
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 12:46 Edited at: 12th Jul 2011 12:47
Quote: "For some reason, although I give long meaningful variable names to everything else, when I'm using a loop, I always use a single letter. I start with c and then if I have loops within that, I just go from there (d, e, f etc.)"

That's what I do except I start with n.

Quote: "I now try to use more meaningful names (even if it's only a single word) like Counter or Index. Of course I use the leading type signifier as well, e.g. iCounter (for an integer value), or lIndex (for a long value). I find it helps puts my mind in the right space of determining what the loop is used for, e.g. I would use lIndex if I had an array that I needed to traverse, and iCounter if I needed to keep track of a continually increasing or decreasing value...
I find it also helps if you need to trace a variable that you pass to another function as well.."

This is the habit I should probably get into.

Quote: "Probably too much information hey? Aren't you sorry you asked "
Not at all, to both questions. I'm still at an early stage of learning how to program. I'm completely self taught although I'm in a software development class, they have only done up to arrays in Visual BASIC which I knew about before I set foot in the class, I mean arrays are pretty easy to grasp the concept of.

Edit - Thanks for the feedback guys!!!

BatVink
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 13:06
Quote: "I'm still at an early stage of learning how to program."

In which case, it's a good idea to form good habits now. While n works on small pieces of code, imagine nested loops that span hundreds of lines of code. Then, imagine that code being passed to somebody else to maintain. You'll soon realise what is best practise

What's more important is where the data is derived from. This:



is many times more inefficient than:



the function gets called on every iteration, the second code only does it once.

</offtopic>

baxslash
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 13:40
@Batvink, theoretically though if you have a variable for the upper limit ie. "for n=1 to numobjects" would it be quicker using this than the maximum upper limit you are allowing in an array?

For example if you store your object data in an array would this:

...be quicker than say this:


I know it depends on the average number of objects to some extent but say there are likely to be around 1000 objects in a possible array of 3000.

Wait, I already know what you are going to say, "Use dynamic arrays" but I was just wondering...

I don't think this is far off topic as we are discussing methods of speeding our games up here. I hope you all agree.

BTW. Like my new avatar?

Hodgey
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 14:18
Quote: "In which case, it's a good idea to form good habits now. While n works on small pieces of code, imagine nested loops that span hundreds of lines of code. Then, imagine that code being passed to somebody else to maintain. You'll soon realise what is best practise"

I never though of that, excellent point BatVink.

Quote: "What's more important is where the data is derived from."

And when as demonstrated in your snippets.

Quote: "I don't think this is far off topic as we are discussing methods of speeding our games up here. I hope you all agree."

Well, kind of began as off topic as it was related to programming in general but has become on topic.

Here is a question about speed
is this:


faster than this?:

I think the answer is yes but because two individual loops are called but I would like confirmation.

Quote: "BTW. Like my new avatar?"

Very nice! I like how all of the guns look like they're going to shoot through the trumpet in your valued member badge

BatVink
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 14:18 Edited at: 12th Jul 2011 14:20
[EDIT] response to baxslash[/edit]
I'm not sure about that one. My background is in IBM midrange machines, where a variable and a literal have the same overhead. For example the number 3000 would still become a reference to that number in a memory location, so it is effectively a variable and makes no difference. Actually it does make a difference. If you use the literal 3000 in 100 different lines of code, you get 100 references to different memory locations, so we tend to make a variable (x3000) to represent any number that is used numerous times. It would usually be for numbers such as 0 and 1.

Regarding dynamic arrays...that's another can of worms altogether! I hit a speed stumbling block some time ago. In summary, adding one element at a time is bad. Always add in blocks (e.g 100 elements at a time) and manage the empty elements.

The avatar...yes, I like

[EDIT] response to Hodgey [/EDIT]
Option 1 will be faster because of the reduced overhead in managing just 1 loop.

Hodgey
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 14:30
Quote: "Option 1 will be faster because of the reduced overhead in managing just 1 loop."

Thanks BatVink!

baxslash
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 15:56 Edited at: 12th Jul 2011 16:05
Was it @Hodgey who said they downloaded The Last Stand Demo and it didn't work on W7 SP1?

Whoever it was could they try this updated "exe" in the game folder for me along with the dll that's in the folder too(AppUp Demo version so you must have downloaded and installed the AppUp version of the free demo)?
The Last Stand Demo V1.1.5 (50Mb warning!)

Thanks!

EDIT: You'll need to rename the exe as "LastStand.exe" sorry I just realised...

EDIT2: "Die alien scum! Baxslash just gave me a sniper rifle!"


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baxslash
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 16:22
Rick Vanner just posted a release date for AppGameKit of 15th August. Pre-ordering begins next week!

The Slayer
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 16:54
@baxslash:
Nice avatar. Heheheh. I thought the previous one (yourself in a zombie kinda state) was great too.
Also, sorry about not having sent you the website images yet. Got kinda busy with Brixoid. I have prepared them, and will send them to you right away.
The screenie of 'VS' loox great. Very cartoonish.

About the loop thing, I usually use simple letters too for little pieces of code. I'll use more meaningfull names too if necessary, though.

The thread for Brixoid is also locked , so I'll have to make a new one for that. Brixoid is getting a major overhaul again (mostly graphical, and maybe a few gameplay things too).
I've kept Brixoid on hold for quite some time now, but this time I'm going to get it finished to publish.

Here's a (temporary) screenshot of a new theme/skin.



Cheers

baxslash
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 17:06
Looking nice TheSlayer!

Can't wait to play it

Lucas Tiridath
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 17:36
Quote: "Whoever it was could they try this updated "exe" in the game folder for me along with the dll that's in the folder too(AppUp Demo version so you must have downloaded and installed the AppUp version of the free demo)?"

Twas I. Your right I downloaded the demo. I tried the new version and I didn't get the parameter error. However half way through loading, I did get:



I assume this is something to do with the new version though. The parameter error would have happened much earlier, before I would have seen anything, so I think you've sorted that one.

I've only not downloaded the full version because I must admit I don't tend to play shoot em ups. However you can bet I'll be getting Vs which is looking amazing as I'm a big fan of worms like games anyway. Anyone else play Arcanists? And you're farmyard has aliens now?!?!

Quote: "Rick Vanner just posted a release date for AppGameKit of 15th August. Pre-ordering begins next week!"

Well, I think they've done the right thing delaying the launch until it's ready but I must admit I'm a bit disappointed. I really hoped to get some serious development in AppGameKit done whilst I have time during the summer but that release date will only give me 10 days to play with it before I'm off... Still, I should get some time after that and I still think it looks set to be one of the best options out there when it is release so I'll wait for it

baxslash
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 17:44 Edited at: 12th Jul 2011 17:45
Thanks a lot Lucas! I added some sparks in the first level and obviously forgot to include that image for you. Stick this in your game folder in a folder called Media and test again would you? If this works I can build an installer and send it for validation before the 18th...

Spark

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Lucas Tiridath
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 18:02
No problem. I've just had a go and it loads and runs great! Lol I fail at this. I sure hope I never wind up in a server room full of zombies! Knowing my luck though...

However when I tried to exit the app, shortly after my grizzly zomby related demise, the app crashed on me. You didn't forget end bbb gui did you per chance?

baxslash
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 18:10
Quote: "You didn't forget end bbb gui did you per chance?"

Very possible... I'll check.

Quote: "I sure hope I never wind up in a server room full of zombies! Knowing my luck though..."

I'm providing a service, preparing people for the outbreak

Jordi
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 20:25
Hi people

I finished my game for AppUp and I made the installer with War Setup and now I summit the game on Intel website.

On the previus step to verification, they recommend to make a beta test with some normal users.

In this forum there are a lot of people developing for AppUp.

My question is, in this community is possible that anyone test the game? You have some list of testers for AppUp aplications?

Thanks to all for help me

NURENDSOFT: Videogames for all.
Lucas Tiridath
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 20:41
Quote: "You have some list of testers for AppUp aplications?"

Yes, in fact I believe Baxslash has it on the front page . So have you actually submitted it? If not, I'd be happy to give it a quick test although I've been having a lot of trouble with the client on my test machines recently so I can't promise I'll actually be able to download it. Ah I've not actually got my email address on this profile... Give me a minute, I'll add it and you can send a beta invite to that address.

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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 21:10
Quote: " So have you actually submitted it? "


Yes, I submitted the game and now I finding anyone to test the game before pass the Intel verification.

I added your email address on the beta test.

Thanks Lucas

Do you know what is the max time for test the game? Is my first game in AppUp.

NURENDSOFT: Videogames for all.
baxslash
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 21:25
Hi Jordi, invite me on 'srholding at hotmail dot co dot uk', I'll Beta test for you too

Jordi
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 21:33
Thanks baxslash

I invite you now

NURENDSOFT: Videogames for all.
Hodgey
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Posted: 13th Jul 2011 12:41
Quote: "Rick Vanner just posted a release date for AppGameKit of 15th August. Pre-ordering begins next week!
"

I can't wait for this! You'll have to write up some more guides Baxslash, need to bring AppGameKit into the mix.

@ Baxslash: I got a response from IanM and he says that he'll look into it. BTW nice screeny!

@ The Slayer: Likewise, very nice! Did you find a fix to that bug?

baxslash
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Posted: 13th Jul 2011 13:41
Quote: "You'll have to write up some more guides Baxslash, need to bring AppGameKit into the mix."

I may need some help... not sure I can afford the price just yet. Works out around £70 I think. Might be hard to write a guide for something I can't use yet.

Quote: "I got a response from IanM and he says that he'll look into it. BTW nice screeny!"

Great! And thanks

I now have the images from TheSlayer and I'll try to get started on the site if I can find some spare time.

I'm trying to decide on the best design for the layout at the moment and how it'll fit in with a game. I'm condsidering just launching the site from the users default browser rather than having a utility executable as it means less coding and more design, I think that's an advantage as it'll be easier to maintain and update.

I'm willing to dole out access to your own section of the website but I'll need to speak to Batvink regarding how this will work practically regarding moderation. All it would take is someone to advertise a none Intel product on their page to get all of our Apps pulled (potentially). We have to ensure that our site (if we link to it in-game) is not advertising none Intel products including TGC products...

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