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Geek Culture / TGC beta forums - closed until further notice

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2014 03:01
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Quote: "*Exasperation*"
Good for you.

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2014 07:24
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Very few computers would do upper and and lower case at first.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
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nonZero
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2014 09:02
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Back on topic, for the last few days my persistent data (my login) from the site keeps getting deleted/expiring, even with "Never log me out" checked. I thought it was a browser problem but I upgraded to no avail. Is anyone that uses a PC experiencing this problem? If so, then there could be a problem. If not, I'll assume it's on my end.

ver 7.5 /// int 145 /// str 45 /// dex 85 /// end 200 /// mat 3
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2014 09:07 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2014 09:08
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Quote: "Very few computers would do upper and and lower case at first."
Gotcha. I was thinking, from the context, that the Apple computers were the only ones to do such silly things, but I do stand more informed now, and hence, corrected.

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2014 09:35
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The Apple //e, released in 1983, had a full ASCII set and display built in, and was very successful.

I started programming on the original Apple ][, first in Applesoft, and then USD Pascal and 6502 assembler.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
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MrValentine
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Posted: 4th Mar 2014 05:47
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Been following in the shadows somewhat... just wanted to say that I like the !Reply here! Hyperlink that was last seen on Monday... if that can make a comeback and stay would love it and enable more interaction!

Any plans on the full implementation of the new forum?
Will there be a choice between the two?

I have yet to see them as I have not visited it in some weeks...

Hello all once more

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 12th Mar 2014 05:19
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I don't know about the others, but over the past couple weeks I have noticed that the forum has been extremely slow with the loading times and posting times. Other websites appear totally fine, so I'm led to believe it is not an issue on my side.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 12th Mar 2014 05:56 Edited at: 12th Mar 2014 05:57
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Sparrowhawk - Just noticed you also shop at SCAN ^^

Dark Java Dude 64 - been happening here too and we all know what speed I am on





EDIT

Albeit, that is half my download speed... ^^

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Phaelax
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Posted: 16th Mar 2014 22:06
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Forum speed has seemed fine to me, but I'm not using the beta.

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 17th Mar 2014 06:25
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I get slow speeds using beta or not, it would seem... It's not rare for a post to take 10 seconds and a page load to take 5.

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nonZero
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Posted: 17th Mar 2014 19:07
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This forum seems to use a fair amount of bandwidth. Maybe that's it.



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MrValentine
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Posted: 18th Mar 2014 06:21
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OK, 10-15 seconds to submit a 2 line comment... something needs to be looked at...

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The Next
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Posted: 18th Mar 2014 14:13
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What site is this on beta or live?

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MrValentine
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Posted: 18th Mar 2014 15:54 Edited at: 18th Mar 2014 15:55
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Live, but appears to be fluctuating thought the day...

EDIT

This post took about six seconds to submit...

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 19th Mar 2014 02:40 Edited at: 19th Mar 2014 02:41
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Board pages and threads have been taking in upwards of 10 seconds to load on my end today. Like mentioned, it does indeed fluctuate. I notice no difference between beta and live.

Edit:

Took 26 seconds to post this :/

Edit 2:

Submitting that edit was nearly instant. Odd...

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 19th Mar 2014 02:43 Edited at: 19th Mar 2014 02:45
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Let me double post to try something out...

Edit:

Yep, 29 seconds to post that.

So something is going on for a new post that does not happen for editing a post.

Edit 2:

Yeah, that edit submitted instantly as well.

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Mobiius
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Posted: 19th Mar 2014 10:23
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New post checks for duplicates, edit doesn't. ??


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The Next
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Posted: 19th Mar 2014 11:17
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Dark Java Dude 64 were those tests also taken on the live forum?

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 19th Mar 2014 13:14
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I dont think I have noticed any slow loading times.

Also, the board select for the search function seems broken, you can only select all boards and geek cluture. The search buttons seem to only scroll the page to the top but not do anything else

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 19th Mar 2014 22:13 Edited at: 19th Mar 2014 23:20
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Quote: "New post checks for duplicates, edit doesn't. ??"
I'm under the impression that editing does, as well.

Quote: "Dark Java Dude 64 were those tests also taken on the live forum?"
They were; I'll switch over to the beta forum and use it for a bit, then I'll report back here with what I find.

Edit:

Alright well, the beta forums do actually seem to be a lot faster. While my memories of such occurrences are vague, I do recall times where the beta forums were quite slow.

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Mobiius
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Posted: 20th Mar 2014 22:00
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Quote: "I'm under the impression that editing does, as well."

Wouldn't make much sense to check a post for duplicates, when it already passed once before.


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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 20th Mar 2014 22:24 Edited at: 20th Mar 2014 22:28
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Try it yourself; it won't let you submit an edit to a post when the edit you are submitting would make the post identical to one you have already posted in the same thread.

I just tried it out; I originally posted 'test test', then attempted to edit it, replacing it with the identical text in an above post of mine. I'm currently at the edit screen and have
Quote: "Duplicate Error: A message with the exact same text is already posted in this thread by you."
in red text sitting above the text field; this popped up after hitting submit on the same edit screen.

So yes, it checks for duplicates whether editing or posting new.

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Mobiius
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Posted: 21st Mar 2014 00:46
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The more you know!


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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 21st Mar 2014 01:12
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Quote: "Wouldn't make much sense to check a post for duplicates, when it already passed once before."
That, however, is indeed a true statement. It doesn't make sense.

So I guess, on the live forums, there is something other than duplicate checking going on, for new posts but not old posts.

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The Next
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Posted: 21st Mar 2014 11:51
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Yes the live forums still use the old mailback code that is super slow. The checking for duplicates is not the issue here that part of the process is very fast. The beta forums should be faster than the live in all cases as the mailback code is run server-side not when you post.

Windows 7 Pro, Intel i7 3.8 GHz, 16GB DDR3, NVIDIA GTX 780 4GB Superclocked

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Clonkex
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Posted: 21st Mar 2014 14:55
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As much as I think the new beta forum is quite good, I still sigh with relief every time I go back to the live forum. It's just so....familiar, and it has a character, whereas the default theme of the beta forum feels very generic. I really want to see what the replica theme will look like


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nonZero
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Posted: 21st Mar 2014 18:21
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Hey, had an idea on speeding up the posting. If the following criteria are met, only check duplicate posts against the latest post (for technical error prevention):
Member is older than 6 months.
Member has made at least enough posts to be past moderation phase (20, iirc).

I dunno if it's a major hassle to implement now but I just had the idea and thought I'd share (the reason I logged in again, lol).


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Clonkex
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Posted: 21st Mar 2014 23:30
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Quote: "Hey, had an idea on speeding up the posting."


The posting IS sped up. The Next is not trying to make posting on the live forum any faster, just the beta forum (afaik).


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Mobiius
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2014 01:54
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But he said it was the mailback code causing the slowdown, not the posting speed or duplicate checks.


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nonZero
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2014 07:01 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2014 07:05
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Quote: "The Next is not trying to make posting on the live forum any faster, just the beta forum"



Seriously though, was just a thought that popped into my head. It doesn't hurt to throw an optimization out there. Besides, it would reduce overhead on the server. Suppose we end up with tons of pony- and postcom-threads (as in post volume, not subject matter), lots more users, etc. It does add up. Prolly won't be an appreciable speed difference but it's always good to cut down on unnecessary checks.


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The Next
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2014 19:45
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Just to confirm a few things for everyone.

The beta forum is updated with new faster mailback code, the live forum will never be updated with this code. The reason for this is without hours of patching other fixes first I cannot get the mailback fix to work, it simply isn't worth the time.

As a result the live forum will get slower and slower as time goes on hence why I am as quickly as possible writing the beta forums. I have to be sure it is bug free before I release it.

As for the duplicate posts, I have no plans to change the current system as it works well and the time taken to check for duplicate posts even in the largest of threads/boards is tiny (milliseconds).

On my list for speeding up the beta forums is:
- Enabling compression of static files (images/css)
- Removing some badly written SQL in the board listings (might save a few milliseconds)
- Use as much HTML5 as possible to use browser rendering instead of images.

After this I will make the beta forums live with 2 themes (TGC Modern/TGC Classic) TGC classic will be one colour only I am afraid at least for the first build but the new version will support all the new features of the beta forums and will be very fast to load.

The final point to add is, I know many users think the beta forum is very generic at the moment at looks simple. That is in some ways intentional and it makes my life adding new features easy as the code is simple tidy and has no fancy style stuff. I want to release a mostly back end fix version first (trust me there are a hell of a lot of changes in there just most are not noticeable) then I may do a whole new design on a new beta forum v2.

If anyone has any comments on this let me know, I have been supper busy the last 3 weeks. However tomorrow is a TGC coding day so once I have got some stuff done for Rick I will try to get the forum code closer to being completed.

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nonZero
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2014 20:42
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FTR: I like that the beta is minimalistic. I mean the live forum has grown on me but even if there was no classic theme, when the beta went live, I'd still be happy as it will be more optimized. Tbh, if we could use embedded SVG instead of images and do away with any non-essential images it would be great. And, as you rightly say, themes and mucking about can happen later. Stability and speed are what I look at most from a coding POV and, artistically, I'm quite sparse in my design (don't confuse minimalist with fan of "metro"-look, though, pleeeez). So yeah, I'm actually excited now though I'll likely stick to TGC Classic theme for contrast reasons and familiarity.

As for optimization, my suggestion re dup-checks was based on a theoretical optimization. It was just a thought and, for the sake of maintaining sanity, my thoughts shouldn't be taken too seriously. An example is a mathematical formula I have been trying to figure out to calculate every x number consecutive repeated characters within a given charset that is used to generate all combinations (essentially I'm reducing the need for comparative checking in each string and using mathematics to generate relevant keys). Yeah, see, crazy when I could just post-process using pattern-search.

Can't really think of any meaningful suggestions except maybe to only check carraige returns / line feeds outside of code snippets in sigs. But that's really trivial. Well look forward to the continued success. Btw, I checked the beta on mobile with images on some time back, was actually looking quite decent.


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Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2014 01:42
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Quote: "- Use as much HTML5 as possible to use browser rendering instead of images."


Can you elaborate what you mean here?

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2014 03:03
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I think he means like, images used as a part of the website and its interface. Instead of creating a gradient border around an element by using an image, he might be looking to have it rendered.

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Clonkex
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2014 04:28
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Quote: "Seriously though, was just a thought that popped into my head. It doesn't hurt to throw an optimization out there. Besides, it would reduce overhead on the server. Suppose we end up with tons of pony- and postcom-threads (as in post volume, not subject matter), lots more users, etc. It does add up. Prolly won't be an appreciable speed difference but it's always good to cut down on unnecessary checks."


No certainly not. Suggestions are always a good thing. I was just making sure you knew The Next was not even trying to update the live forums


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nonZero
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2014 07:11 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2014 07:14
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Quote: "Can you elaborate what you mean here?"

I think he means:
Old site uses raster image tiles for UI components eg borders. Using newer HTML filled box -type commands (I really gotta brush up on the spec) could negate the need for raster images which means faster loading (especially if you clear you cache each session like me). It's also cleaner and puts less strain on the server's bandwidth. I like this.
I hope he means:
The abovementioned plus SVG embedded for all raster images. Now, iirc, the HTML5 spec introduced SVGs embedded directly in the code see: www.w3schools.com/svg/svg_inhtml.asp. About the only thing we'd lose is the TGC banners (which need resizing anyway) as new ones would be Vector Graphics but we lost our banners before. Maybe do an archive thread called Nostalgia and sticky it in GC. Well that's what I was talking about in my previous post (SVG, not nostalgia). It would be so awesome. We could even start a global thread searching for artists to redo things like the TGC logo etc. Ideally the only raster images would be adds containing photo/screenies. Maybe, if really necessary, allow raster banners but I see this as an ideal opportunity, since we're replacing them anyway, to convert to SVG.


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Clonkex
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2014 12:43
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Quote: "About the only thing we'd lose is the TGC banners"


And all the images. I mean, sigs, avatars, smileys, badges, even the Report Post button! No point getting rid of good banners as well.

You have to bear in mind also that rendering webpages created dynamically (without bitmap images) may run more slowly on mobile devices. Or it might not, I really have no idea


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The Next
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2014 14:46
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Quote: "Can you elaborate what you mean here?"


Sure I mean that all style elements that currently use images, will be replaced with CSS3 counterparts for example rounded corners will be done with border-radius or gradients with the CSS3 gradient code for each browser. I do intend to use SVG but only for some objects, I will not replace the banners or signatures in anyway.

Replacing everything in a dynamic site with embedded SVG is almost impossible, we allow user uploaded content and I will not be converting all of that data to SVG format. I am only interested for now in making the actual style of the site as fast as possible.

Quote: "You have to bear in mind also that rendering webpages created dynamically (without bitmap images) may run more slowly on mobile devices. Or it might not, I really have no idea"


This in some ways is true, however mobile devices are very well optimised for most of the HTML5 and CSS3 standards. The issue comes when using 3D or transform effects, these are generally very slow for mobile devices. I don't intend to make use of these so we should be ok to replace the design elements with device rendered instead of images. Also keep in mind there will be a dedicated mobile theme after the initial release is done and I know it is bug free.

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2014 20:04 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2014 21:22
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The unread posts not getting the right color seems to be back in firefox...

Edit: Looks lke it's fixed again

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nonZero
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2014 21:13
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Quote: "And all theimages. I mean, sigs, avatars, smileys, badges, even the Report Post button! No point getting rid of good banners as well."

I thought the exclusion of user-content like avatars and sigs was implicitly obvious ><
I meant site-specific elements such as borders, logos, etc, as The Next has confirmed (which I'm happy about: banzai!). That's why I said "this site".. *this->site ... couldn't resist
Btw, I thought the old banners were getting tossed out because of their dimensions. Well, I recall some talk of it early in this thread but am too lazy to go looking. Anyway, if they aren't, I guess that's cool too. Might be a nice little connection to the past then.


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Clonkex
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2014 23:28
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Quote: "I thought the exclusion of user-content like avatars and sigs was implicitly obvious ><"


And I thought the inclusion of banners as user-content was obvious

Quote: "I meant site-specific elements such as borders, logos, etc, as The Next has confirmed (which I'm happy about: banzai!). That's why I said "this site".. *this->site ... couldn't resist"


Haha I know I just laughed when you said we would need to lose the banners, when that's one small image at the top, and there's all the user-content throughout the rest of the page

Quote: "This in some ways is true, however mobile devices are very well optimised for most of the HTML5 and CSS3 standards. The issue comes when using 3D or transform effects, these are generally very slow for mobile devices. I don't intend to make use of these so we should be ok to replace the design elements with device rendered instead of images. Also keep in mind there will be a dedicated mobile theme after the initial release is done and I know it is bug free."


Goodo then

Quote: "Btw, I thought the old banners were getting tossed out because of their dimensions."


Yeah I thought they were too. Still though, the new banners aren't going to be much bigger, they'll just blend with the background at the sides to look as though they're full-width.


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easter bunny
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Posted: 24th Mar 2014 01:11
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How 'bout you integrate this, the konami code:



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Clonkex
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Posted: 24th Mar 2014 02:32
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Quote: "How 'bout you integrate this, the konami code:"


...and this is...?


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easter bunny
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Posted: 24th Mar 2014 03:04
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Konami Code
Try it on digg.com


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Jeku
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Posted: 24th Mar 2014 07:46
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Cool, thanks for clarifying

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Clonkex
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Posted: 24th Mar 2014 12:52
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Quote: "Konami Code
Try it on digg.com"


Ah, pretty much what I thought I assume "integrating it" would have to be a joke, though I'm not sure how...


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nonZero
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Posted: 24th Mar 2014 15:49 Edited at: 24th Mar 2014 15:53
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Quote: "And I thought the inclusion of banners as user-content was obvious"

Fair enough, you got me there. I should have said \"replace everything not an avatar or sig\".

Quote: "Haha I knowI just laughed when you said we would need to lose the banners, when that\'s one small image at the top, and there\'s all the user-content throughout the rest of the page"

I see, I misunderstood your meaning to mean you misunderstood my meaning. I see your point, there are plenty of very large (as in kb) images in some people\'s sigs. I suppose then, the conversion of all TGC\'s forum graphics would only speed up things for the board-lists, thread-lists, profile page, etc. but not any threads where lots people with large (in kb) sigs have posted unless the viewer had disabled sigs. Then again, I guess on a good day, it may make a difference to people with crappy internet connections. I guess it may also make a difference to TGC\'s server b-load but how much would be a random number and some guess work on my part.

Quote: "the konami code"

Why am I always left out of the cool kids group!? Seriously, I never knew about that, I feel ashamed.


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budokaiman
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Posted: 25th Mar 2014 13:48
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Found a new bug for you:
http://betaforum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=114323&b=2&msg=2514513#m2514513


"Giraffe is soft, Gorilla is hard." - Phaelax
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Clonkex
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13
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Joined: 20th May 2010
Location: Northern Tablelands, NSW, Australia
Posted: 26th Mar 2014 14:24 Edited at: 26th Mar 2014 14:28
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Quote: "Then again, I guess on a good day, it may make a difference to people with crappy internet connections. I guess it may also make a difference to TGC\'s server b-load but how much would be a random number and some guess work on my part."


I guess.

Quote: "Why am I always left out of the cool kids group!? Seriously, I never knew about that, I feel ashamed."


I kinda guessed it was a cheat code, but I had no idea it was a well-known one that applied to most Konami games Sometimes I feel like I was born too late

EDIT: Forgot to mention. I'm seeing a bug on this thread only: the page is not resizing to the width of my 1360x768 monitor and goes out the side. Also, I'm seeing a lot of escape backslashes before quotes. Oh, and I'm on the live forum, not the beta one.

EDIT2: The backslashes seem to only appear on posts posted with the beta forum.


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nonZero
12
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Joined: 10th Jul 2011
Location: Dark Empire HQ, Otherworld, Silent Hill
Posted: 26th Mar 2014 19:05
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There are lots of strange things happening with chars of late... Could the server have evolved a ghost?
A Â


You're a bad man!
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