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AppGameKit Classic Chat / AGK Pro Version NEEDED!!!

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xGEKKOx
AGK Master
15
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Joined: 7th Dec 2008
Location: Italy
Posted: 10th Oct 2015 17:05 Edited at: 10th Oct 2015 17:07
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Many of the features of AppGameKit are not working on iOS anymore...
The template is so old that nobody can run it on the first run...
Nobody tested new features like tvOS or watch or nothing...
Is possible that the only one coder that test news is me???

We need an update for the new features, or ios developers can't go on.

Today i made another of my friends buy AppGameKit 2... maybe i must stop to invite my friends to buy it.
There are 25 friends of mine, that bought AGK2 on my suggestion, that never got it running on iOS.
I also stopped to help users on the forum, as this isn't my job, but TGC, releasing a ready to run product.

The updates are very slow, Paul said he doesn't touch iOS since months...
In the name of god TGC, what are you waiting for, to let me help you????

I will not get the source code and run away, i'm not interested.
And i don't understand why nobody answer me on this thing.

We need a AppGameKit Pro version, for the professional developers.
Where all the updates are fast, or AppGameKit will be always an hobbyst product.
And ONLY with the 2D engine!!!!!

I don't want to start to develope an engine by myself as i'm very affectionated to TGC, but each year is the same story.
Me here laughing to ask for updates. This is not good, as i carried to you about 2000$ counting all my friends.

Anyway, i hope someone will give an exaustive answer...
Who publish apps like me need to know!!!!

Thx.
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Funnell7
13
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Location: UK, England
Posted: 10th Oct 2015 17:17
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I have no issues publishing to iOS using Tier 1 (which I believe the majority of AppGameKit users use). Having said that I haven't tried with 2.0.15...
Using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 10th Oct 2015 17:26
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Oh goodness, where do I begin...

Do you even pay attention to the development thread before you "open your mouth", so-to-speak?

Paul is pretty much the only one working on AppGameKit, making it difficult to keep updated on everything. Right now he's focusing on getting things stable as well as fleshing out the 3D commands which have been heavily requested since AppGameKit 1. He's doing an excellent job at keeping updates consistent and updating users on what's going on.

tvOS wasn't even announced until just recently, there was no way Paul was going to have it ready to go just like that, especially since that's not the focus right now, the focus is to get AppGameKit 2 to a STABLE release with all of the previously requested features.

Your lack of reading the development thread, as well as ignoring things that have been previously said, won't get you a job at TGC any time soon.


Read the development thread. Realize that Paul is a VERY busy guy and is sticking to a plan he laid out months, if not over a year ago. If you want tvOS so bad, learn Obj-C and swift and quit bugging Paul and TGC about it. They'll get to it eventually, IF it is even a decent platform to publish to (which, honestly, it doesn't look that great and it's very gimmicky).

Be patient

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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 10th Oct 2015 17:40
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@Funnel : I know funnel, but this is not the way to do things. There are many other developer that asked me to talk to TGC that don't talk english...

@Yodaman, where are you jumped out from???

I read every line of this forum... maybe you don't read what i write.
I don't mind what you think about tvOS or iOS, and i'm talking for PRO developers, not hobbyst like you.
So before you "open your mouth", please think twice.

I'm offering my FREE help to the TGC this is the real point.
I want an answer from them and my words on internet are heavy for an engine like this.

I want to know how much time, when and how the updates will be done, as i paid and i contributed AppGameKit to grow with money, with users, with help, with talking good on internet.
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bjadams
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Posted: 10th Oct 2015 18:04 Edited at: 10th Oct 2015 18:05
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This is very concerning if AppGameKit does not work on iOS TODAY as iOS is one of the most important publishing platforms and AppGameKit need to be kept upto date

On the other hand I fully agree with GEKKO, that it's TGC's job to make everything functional, not us users having to fix templates, etc
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Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 11th Oct 2015 01:39
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Quote: "@Yodaman, where are you jumped out from???"


Around the corner

Quote: "I read every line of this forum... maybe you don't read what i write."


No, I did read what you write. But if you have read every line of this forum you would have seen that Paul said in your other thread that he was going to look into updating the iOS code base THIS WEEK. Apparently, this still isn't satisfactory to you, so you started this thread.

Quote: "I don't mind what you think about tvOS or iOS, and i'm talking for PRO developers, not hobbyst like you."


You toss the word "hobbyist" around like it's an insult. Just because I haven't made any apps for sale doesn't mean I don't plan to make money off of one in the future, but that's neither here nor there.

You seem to think that programming automatically entitles you to money. Guess what, it doesn't.

Quote: "I'm offering my FREE help to the TGC this is the real point."


I believe that legally, they can't allow you to work for them for free. You can't honestly tell me you'd be willing to do a mountain of work for them for free. Halfway through you'd re-think it as you realized just how enormous of a task it is, and want compensated for it. This is human nature, we want paid for the work that we do.

Quote: "I want an answer from them and my words on internet are heavy for an engine like this."


But that's just it, Paul has answered you, but you didn't like the answer.

Quote: "I want to know how much time, when and how the updates will be done"


Then subscribe to this thread since it details all of the upcoming updates and roadmaps.

bjadams wrote: "This is very concerning if AppGameKit does not work on iOS TODAY as iOS is one of the most important publishing platforms and AppGameKit need to be kept upto date"


Again, Paul said he would work on it this week. What more do you guys want? You want him to never sleep and work on it NOW because two people are demanding it?

Quote: "On the other hand I fully agree with GEKKO, that it's TGC's job to make everything functional, not us users having to fix templates, etc"


Paul has stated that he works a very specific way in order to ensure stability across all platforms. If you want your beloved tvOS compatibility to be buggy, then by all means continue begging him to release it NAO!!!, then feel free to bug him again when you say something doesn't work right in it.

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haliop_New
User Banned
Posted: 11th Oct 2015 06:45
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Well I kinda agree with everyone here.
but instead of explaining the problems lets find solutions.

this is what I have came up with
its a long shot , and it will cost us more money but I'm up for it.
instead of waiting for TGC to get a new coder for AppGameKit or for parts of AppGameKit

how about this :

we donate some money
TGC will pick a pro coder
TGC will give the donated money to that coder.

everyone is happy ?

I know it sounds weird that we need to give more money but lets face it
TGC still haven't reached a place where there is plenty of money to go around.

actually a full product like AppGameKit 2.0 ( stable version) is worth atleast 1000 dollars per sell. but TGC guys are pretty awesome to sell it for under 100 dollars.

so we have to consider the effect of a high value product that sells for much less .
I personally think we should work out a solution I don't mind paying an extra 50 - 100 bucks for an improved version or if I know that it will give Paul a nice boost towards updates.

overall ?

TGC needs more money to hire more coders.
and Gekko , please , NEVER WORK FOR FREE FOR ANYONE others then the ones who really really needs your help.
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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 11th Oct 2015 09:01
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@Yodaman :
- I have no problem for the job that Paul does, he was alone, this is why i offer my help.
Is simple, when an iOS / tvOS / MAC update is out, i will add the feature to the AppGameKit base code and pass it to Paul.

- I don't want to be hired from TGC, i want only to give my help to get the AGK2 always updated in time.
Yesterday i gave a look to the other 2D engine i have (about all), 80% of them are updated.

- Programming doesn't mean money directly, but who do this as job, need to be updated.
I never bought AppGameKit to play around, but i created my job and now i need it to be updated.
I don't wanna insult the hobbyst, but the priority is for professional coders. And professional coders are the ones that live thanks to coding...

- Well usually i do the same work Paul do in 2 months in 1 day, cause i work on iOS / MAC apps 16 hour a day, everyday, with no holidays at all in the year.
This is why my 120 apps are always updated, and this is why i publish 4/6 apps a month.
Paul maybe do other jobs (coding) for others, and he can't divide himself.
This is why i want to help, the changes i make for my code, are the same changes for the Paul code.
I already earn much from my apps, i don't need to be hired from TGC.
I always hated to work under someone, as i do strange job hours (sorry but i don't know how to explain in english, i mean i wake up when i wake up and work)

- I kwon Paul has answered me, but is not clear for me how he will do it, as he is alone...
He do not have the Apple TV, i think he don't have the watch and el capitan / Xcode 7.0.1....
How the hell he could do the update???

- There is no problem for stability, as AppGameKit is divided in Android / iOS...
I think the version must be completely divided and cleaned up from old code and useless features on iOS.
If bugs are discovered, another update must be released immediately, this is how a company must work.
Paul could have all the problem of this world, but if i buy a product, i want it updated every time. Don't wanna say in the same day the new OS come out, but let us see you are working on.
Today i release this, tomorrow i update that... just let us see TGC is working on it.
Not as Paul said that he doesn't touch iOS since months!!!

@Haliop
- For me AppGameKit could cost 200$ year!!
But i need it as a professional version...
Always updated, only the usefull features, and maybe with the users request!!

TGC seems to me that is doing the same error they done on Dark Basic, they are losing too many time on things that will never work together.

Obviously they could do what they want, but in this way they will lose really much customers.

If i start to understand that i'm the only one here that release app for job with AppGameKit, and i'm the only one that is complaining, i think AppGameKit is arrived to the end.
An engine with no pro customers, before or later, go abandoned, because is not necessary.

Sorry for this words, but i wrote always well of TGC, everytime, everywhere on internet.
If you search for AppGameKit, you find me.

But like every year, i must complain instead of being happy to see that TGC update the product with the Apple release day.
Absurde!!!!

Anyway, i repeat, i hope TGC give me the possibility to update the AGKLib for Apple, and i hope Paul doesn't hurt for my bad english.

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Funnell7
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Posted: 11th Oct 2015 09:10
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Quote: "but the priority is for professional coders"


That's YOUR priority Gekko. I may be completely wrong, but I would imagine TGC's priority is equally the 'hobbyist', if not more, seeing as that is likely 99% of their user base. As a 'hobbyist' myself, I am extremely happy with AppGameKit, I wouldn't have been able to publish 25+ apps without it
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 11th Oct 2015 10:11
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Paul have been busy with the 3D stuff for the last few months. Once that's done, I'm sure he will get to other areas. 3D was asked for by a lot of customers and also payed for during the Kickstarter. It's a massive undertaking. So you have to be patient with other things.
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Grook
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Posted: 11th Oct 2015 11:05
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I don't always agree with xGEKKOx but I think he is spot on with this. His posts can often come across as condescending and hostile but this is just that English is not his native language I believe. He wants the best for AppGameKit, that is for sure, he makes a living from it. He is offering free help to TGC and let's face it, they need all the help they can get with AGK. It's a good product but it could be a brilliant product. Updates are way too slow and I mean waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy tooooooooooooooo sloooooooooooooooow. Paul is superb but is just one man. If someone is offering to chip in, at least consider it.
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Markus
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Posted: 11th Oct 2015 11:12
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tgc/agk should make a version check for the supported platforms and if newer comes it do not start because it is not made for, or start with a message.
and for the "supported platforms" try fix if special devices make trouble.
i think this xcode sdk is for pro users. multiplatform will never be pro.
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 11th Oct 2015 15:03
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xGEKKOx wrote: " I have no problem for the job that Paul does, he was alone, this is why i offer my help.
Is simple, when an iOS / tvOS / MAC update is out, i will add the feature to the AppGameKit base code and pass it to Paul.

- I don't want to be hired from TGC, i want only to give my help to get the AGK2 always updated in time.
Yesterday i gave a look to the other 2D engine i have (about all), 80% of them are updated."


Again, I don't believe they can legally have you work for them for free.

Quote: "Well usually i do the same work Paul do in 2 months in 1 day"


HAHAHAHAHA I can't believe you're seriously trying to claim this. You literally have no idea how much work Paul does a day, so how you even think you can begin to compare your work schedule to his is beyond me.

Quote: "He do not have the Apple TV, i think he don't have the watch and el capitan / Xcode 7.0.1....
How the hell he could do the update???"


That's exactly what I mean in my earlier post. You were essentially demanding that he work on tvOS NOW, and that he should have had it done already. Nice backpedaling attempt, but unfortunately the hill was too steep for that one.

Quote: "- There is no problem for stability, as AppGameKit is divided in Android / iOS...
I think the version must be completely divided and cleaned up from old code and useless features on iOS.
If bugs are discovered, another update must be released immediately, this is how a company must work.
Paul could have all the problem of this world, but if i buy a product, i want it updated every time. Don't wanna say in the same day the new OS come out, but let us see you are working on.
Today i release this, tomorrow i update that... just let us see TGC is working on it.
Not as Paul said that he doesn't touch iOS since months!!!"


Well, it doesn't always work like this, even for bigger companies.

And once again (I don't know how many times I have to repeat this!), Paul said he will look at the iOS codebase THIS VERY WEEK. "Months" could have meant he hasn't looked since August, which really isn't all that long ago.

He is busy getting AppGameKit to a stable release with all of the previously requested 3D commands. This isn't a small task at all but he's still managing to make huge progress in a small amount of time.

Quote: "TGC seems to me that is doing the same error they done on Dark Basic, they are losing too many time on things that will never work together."


They're not making the same mistake at all, they're actually communicating with us about this product whereas they kind of went silent on DarkBASIC, probably because they were planning AGK.

Quote: "Obviously they could do what they want, but in this way they will lose really much customers.

If i start to understand that i'm the only one here that release app for job with AppGameKit, and i'm the only one that is complaining, i think AppGameKit is arrived to the end.
An engine with no pro customers, before or later, go abandoned, because is not necessary."


You seem to be the only one that cares about the gimmicky tvOS, so.. -1 customer won't really hurt them *that* much.
And plenty of other people on here have sold pro apps and games with AGK. You aren't the only one making money from this.

Quote: "But like every year, i must complain instead of being happy to see that TGC update the product with the Apple release day.
Absurde!!!!"


No,. it isn't absurd at all - again you're saying that TGC should somehow have psychic powers and know when to release an update for iOS? You realize they have to study API changes and other background related stuff, right?

Grook wrote: "I don't always agree with xGEKKOx but I think he is spot on with this. His posts can often come across as condescending and hostile but this is just that English is not his native language I believe. He wants the best for AppGameKit, that is for sure, he makes a living from it. He is offering free help to TGC and let's face it, they need all the help they can get with AGK. It's a good product but it could be a brilliant product. Updates are way too slow and I mean waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy tooooooooooooooo sloooooooooooooooow. Paul is superb but is just one man. If someone is offering to chip in, at least consider it."


He's surely not the only one making a living from it. And updates are not that slow, 2.0.15 just came out and they're already working on more updates for the near future.

Seriously, READ THE DEVELOPMENT POST.


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bjadams
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Posted: 11th Oct 2015 16:27
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I truly think Gekko wants to do work on AppGameKit and not charge TGC for it, because his livelihood depends on AGK. He has acquired an expert level in iOS, so I truly think he can fix all the things in 1 day!
Maybe they can hire him and pay him something small
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bjadams
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Posted: 11th Oct 2015 16:56
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An interesting piece of news I came across in the new Newsletter from Lee Bamber:

It was always my intention to migrate our technology over to a future version of AppGameKit when the time came to seek cross-platform features for GameGuru, but I did not appreciate the benefit of doing so sooner as part of a major graphics engine update. I have been careful to separate my ‘experimental’ code from the official AppGameKit work currently underway given the importance of delivering on our Kickstarter promises for AppGameKit in a timely fashion. Once that obligation is complete, it could well be the smart move to inexorably entwine both projects together, which for GameGuru means gaining another top coder and increasing productivity even further. Still, it’s early days yet and such thoughts are dangerous ones at this stage. Best to focus on the immediate goal which is discovering the most optimum route to the result we want, a blazingly fast DirectX 11 experience that does not take an ice age to complete.
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Grook
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Posted: 11th Oct 2015 18:02 Edited at: 11th Oct 2015 18:08
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Quote: "He's surely not the only one making a living from it. And updates are not that slow, 2.0.15 just came out and they're already working on more updates for the near future.

Seriously, READ THE DEVELOPMENT POST. "


I never claimed he was - I was merely pointing out his motives for wanting AppGameKit to be better. On a personal level I'm not interested in apple tv or apple watches so I couldn't care less when Paul commits the time to make things work with them.

Updates aren't that slow - give me a break. When was the Kickstarter campaign again? Updates are fine when Paul isn't doing serious development like the Kickstarter goals, but whilst he is.....

As for reading the development post... Really? Hardly regularly updated is it? As and when ... And no need to shout by the way.

I think you've misunderstood a number of Gekko's comments - which is understandable given the language barrier. He isn't saying that TGC should employ him; there is absolutely no reason why him helping TGC wouldn't be legal - not quite sure where you're going with that one. Also, I believe his comments about doing in 2 days what might take Paul longer is him juts saying that he has a better knowledge of the specifics with iOS and therefore he could do it quicker. Nothing to do with Pauls' schedules. I think most would agree that Paul does a pretty damn good job for one man working on his own.

Yodaman, you don't need to be so defensive of Paul or TGC, nobody is attacking them! They are great; it's just things could be so much better - no need to be so dismissive; we're all here because we like the product we are working with; otherwise we'd be using something like Unity ()
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bjadams
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Posted: 11th Oct 2015 18:36
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Wise words Grook. We are here because we want to point out some things which TGC could do better and hopefully make AppGameKit a bit of a better tool
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 11th Oct 2015 19:15
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Quote: "Updates aren't that slow - give me a break."


Ok, I agree they could be a LOT faster, and I agree that some of the stuff from the Kickstarter is missing, but they're working on it. Things will come!

Quote: "As for reading the development post... Really? Hardly regularly updated is it?"


It's usually updated 2-3 times per month. All new updates are edited into the first post of the thread. Also updates are mentioned in the Newsletter as well, and the AppGameKit group on Facebook.

I will admit, it would be nice if TGC had an actual blog on the main site that went into more detail about updates, which every page had a link to.

Quote: "I think you've misunderstood a number of Gekko's comments - which is understandable given the language barrier"


Incredibly likely, and I'm sorry for coming off as harshly as I did in my last posts, but to me it just looks like he won't drop the subject, going so far as to beg Paul to read his threads in the development blog thread and then going and creating this thread. I suppose it's possible he doesn't realize how he's coming off, but seriously, it really does just seem like he's nitpicking AppGameKit and TGC at this point.

Quote: "He isn't saying that TGC should employ him; there is absolutely no reason why him helping TGC wouldn't be legal - not quite sure where you're going with that one."


Well, I guess I mean that here in the states, you're not allowed to work for anyone for free - that is to say, a corporation/company like TGC. Contracts HAVE to be involved, or else you could face serious consequences. If, for example, TGC allowed him to work for them for free (and yes, it would be working, not helping), and halfway through the project he decides he wants paid for the work after all, and they never signed contracts or set anything up since it was "for free", lawsuits can be opened, TGC could land in serious trouble, etc.,. It would their words versus his words, he said/they said. So that's what I meant by it probably isn't legal for them to let him work for them for free.

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Grook
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Posted: 11th Oct 2015 19:34
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Fair enough Yodaman. Gekko's tone often comes across that way! We're not as litigious here in the UK as they are in the States, though it is certainly heading that way but if Gekko was just to update templates or provide technical expertise there's no need to get contracts or anything involved. If they had to release souce code to him in some form then there could be issues I guess. We're all passionate about AppGameKit, that proves what a good product it is. It's frustrating for all of us at times I guess - we think we can see ways to improve it , some obvious, some not so - but it seems to fall on deaf ears. Having said that, we don't know what goes on behind the scenes and there could be very good reasons why some things don't happen.
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bjadams
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Posted: 11th Oct 2015 21:44
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Gekko is Italian. Watch his videos on youtube he is a nice guy.
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bjadams
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Posted: 11th Oct 2015 21:45
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Grook, did you check the October newsletter? Read what Lee said about things that might happen after the Kickstarter is done!
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Zappo
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 00:24
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Quote: "Well usually i do the same work Paul do in 2 months in 1 day"

Here's an idea then... Make your own competing product to AGK. At that rate it should only take you a week. Then if anyone buys it they can pester you constantly for updates. Just make sure it supports 5 different platforms and you update them all simultaneously.

Please don't take this the wrong way but as a professional and published software developer, I don't think I could work with xGEKKOx. It is the attitude that would make it difficult - which has nothing to do with a language barrier. The above quote says it all really.

We are all customers. One persons needs do not outweigh everyone else's just because they feel their projects are more important. At the end of the day AppGameKit does work on iOS, and Android, and Mac, and Windows... which is pretty darn cool.

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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 01:07 Edited at: 12th Oct 2015 01:24
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@Yodaman
- I don't want to work for TGC, i want to gift the updates to Paul, that is a GREAT developer, but he is busy to manage too many OS.
It could be in this way :
Gekko : "Hey Paul, take this code to launch the new internal store with the new SKStoreViewController, where developer can show the "More Apps" button with 1 line command"
Paul : "Thx i test it and i add it to the next release"

And so on... easy no? Hire, pay? What are you talking about??

- Yes, Dear Yodaman, i do what Paul do in some months on iOS in 1 day. As i do this 24h a day sometimes, also avoiding going to sleep. Cause i have a boss,
and when my boss order me to complete a new game in 1 week, there isn't sleeping until it's complete.
Do you know who is my boss? Me!! AHUAHUAHUHUAAHU.

Ahaha, anyway, Paul know that i love him, and TGC team too know how much i love them, or i would never spent a word for this engine,
but seriously you seem the Paul's girlfriend ahuahuauhau.

- Paul don't have watch, or AppleTV, or anything, but me yes, so why not accept my help?
Each coder is free to choose what to test and how to imagine the future marketing and where the earning will move on, i never failed since AppGameKit is out.
Maybe this will be the first time, but in the meanwhile i create and release at the speed of light.

- Well, comunicating isn't the perfect word. Sending a file with the fix to do and receive back 1 line with just thanks isn't communication for me.
Maybe : "Gekko have you some code to give me so i can do it in just a week?"
And communication on Skype, is communication.
But each country you go, different communication you find.

- Exactly, i updated 45 apps in 48 hours without sleep, and you know why????
Cause i read all the API changes and made it step by step, every time they come out.
If you doesn't update 1 time, the next one, you need to do 72 hours and so on.
AGK is old on Apple device. Let's update it with my help. Easy no?

- This post is to help the coders like me, that need update on iOS/MAC to live.
Well, in effect, i can start also the same 2D engine and give it for free in 4/5 months, but this mean to lose 6 * 5 apps / month...
If this Christmas go as i expect, i will start something on February.

.....

@BJAdams
Bj understand well what i mean, as he is a great coder and know what the world app market mean.

@Grook
Grook is right! The language barrier is hard for peoples like Yodaman. I do my best to explain what i mean, but i know i write like a Italian (from Naples) that talk in english ahuahuaha.
But Grook got the point immediately.

Yes, on youtube, you can see i gift my template for AGK2 for free.
I explain how to install, how to run a project in 2 min!!!
The most read post on google for AppGameKit is mine, this means that people want to know how to run the default template, or how to launch the multiplayer.

Yes let's talk about the multiplayer, do you know that if you want to use the AppGameKit multiplayer on iOS it will never work???
And you know why??? Because you need to open port on the routers.
Try to explain under your app description how to open the port to a 10 years old child... you will get a 1 star review in 2 seconds!!!

My template give the Apple multiplayer ready to run with 3/4 commands.
This is what i want for AGK.

I admire Paul that done multiplayer with sockets or whatever... but if on iOS doesn't work, you have 2 choices: Remove it, use the Apple ones and update the LIB.
This is how i work when i code.

@Zappo
AGK doesn't work on iOS AS IT COMES from the ZIP file.
Do a video and show me how you make it start for iOS 9.0.2 without modifying the template.

When iOS on the end of February made 64bit the rule for the compiled code, i noticed it to Paul, and paul compiled the 64bit Library.
But if you sell a product, you must read the news from APple / Google, or you will never update it in time, and you will see this post in the forum every time.

Well working with me is hard, but is very fun, and very lucrative, huhuhu

I'm very sorry with some of you that get my words bad, but i have 1.000.000 users every month on my apps, and i can't lose what i built in 4 years of sacrifice for a stupid update.
Obviously when i say "stupid" i don't want to say that Paul is a slow coder (ahahaha, i know Yodaman was already thinkin to write this auhahuahau).

Paul + FREE Gekko = Android update with 2D/3D and all the things you want + 2D iOS / tvOS / MAC / watch updates in the same time.
That's all.
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 03:12
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Quote: "- Yes, Dear Yodaman, i do what Paul do in some months on iOS in 1 day"


Sorry, but I'm sure you'll understand why I have such a difficult time believing this is possible. Weeks/months of work in one day? I don't think so.

Quote: "- Exactly, i updated 45 apps in 48 hours without sleep, and you know why????
Cause i read all the API changes and made it step by step, every time they come out.
If you doesn't update 1 time, the next one, you need to do 72 hours and so on.
AGK is old on Apple device. Let's update it with my help. Easy no?"


You seem to forget that updates aren't usually announced until just a few short weeks (sometimes even just days) away. You also seem to forget that Paul is employed by a company which almost certainly doesn't force him to work 24 hours a day, so how on earth you expect him to have updates availabe right away is beyond me.

Zappo wrote: "Here's an idea then... Make your own competing product to AGK. At that rate it should only take you a week. Then if anyone buys it they can pester you constantly for updates. Just make sure it supports 5 different platforms and you update them all simultaneously.

Please don't take this the wrong way but as a professional and published software developer, I don't think I could work with xGEKKOx. It is the attitude that would make it difficult - which has nothing to do with a language barrier. The above quote says it all really.
"


Zappo is right - your attitude is coming off very poorly, and you act very entitled.

I second the motion of having you make a competing product.

Quote: "Well, in effect, i can start also the same 2D engine and give it for free in 4/5 months, but this mean to lose 6 * 5 apps / month...
If this Christmas go as i expect, i will start something on February."


Best get cracking then.

Quote: "I'm very sorry with some of you that get my words bad, but i have 1.000.000 users every month on my apps, and i can't lose what i built in 4 years of sacrifice for a stupid update.
Obviously when i say "stupid" i don't want to say that Paul is a slow coder (ahahaha, i know Yodaman was already thinkin to write this auhahuahau)."


No, actually, I wasn't all set to be defensive about that one. But seriously, you know TGC are a limited team, you know they have limited resources, you surely can't expect them to be on top of EVERY OS that's out there. If you really want to do proper iOS/tvOS development, there's this great app called Xcode which supports Obj-C and Swift and you can make native apps almost as easily as in AppGameKit - but of course the caveat is that it's iOS only

But this is a very silly argument and I'm not going to bother again. I just hope you realize that you're making yourself look like a toddler demanding a toy of their parents' at the local store's checkout stand.

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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 04:42
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Bhaaaa, Forum President...

i will follow your suggestion, i will download XCode with Swift, as C++ / ObjC is too difficult for me.
How the hell i done without you all this time, i couldn't explain that.

Whoo, this is why i avoided this forum for some months.
As we say in Naples : "Chist e' tutt scem, nun val a pen e ce perder tiemp!"
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CJB
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 09:06
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Quote: "1.000.000 users every month on my apps"


Yeah, right.

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bjadams
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 10:26
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I think with SFML he can easily make his own "AGK"
But I think this forum is much better with Gekko around, so users who want to make IOS apps on T2 can get some help
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Scraggle
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 10:58
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@Yodaman
I don't know what the role of Forum President is supposed to be but I'm fairly sure it isn't to promote negativity towards anybody that is offering free help.
Some of Gekko's claims may seem outrageous to you but instead of accusing him of lying perhaps you could use your role as Forum President to bring this offer of help to the attention of the TGC crew and let them decide how to proceed.

Personally I'm all in favour of TGC getting more staff so that updates and fixes come sooner. Whether that is fully paid staff or free help is no concern to me. The more the merrier.

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Grook
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 11:36 Edited at: 12th Oct 2015 11:39
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bjadams wrote: "Grook, did you check the October newsletter? Read what Lee said about things that might happen after the Kickstarter is done!"


Indeed bjadams, could be very exciting news. Personally the 3d stuff doesn't interest me but having a "team" working on AppGameKit can only be a good thing? Not entirely sure why anyone would use AppGameKit for 3D when Unity is so much further ahead, but that's just my opinion.
\"It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it\'s called Life.”
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Grook
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 11:39
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bjadams wrote: "I think with SFML he can easily make his own "AGK""


I have no doubt he could but it wouldn't be cross-platform. Quite apart from anything else, Gekko has an unhealthy opinion of anything Android.
\"It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it\'s called Life.”
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bjadams
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 12:52
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SFML is cross platform
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Grook
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Yes, but Gekko isn't!
\"It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it\'s called Life.”
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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 13:08
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Ehehe, yes Grook.
Anyway today i start to test another time all the engine on the market, i have bought already all of them since years, i try to update each one to the last version and see what they changed.
Let's search something new in c++ in the meanwhile TGC do updates (i hope).
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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 13:15
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Ah boys, 1.000.000 acces to my server, not downloads (i said users not downloads) :o
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Grook
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 16:15
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xGEKKOx wrote: "Anyway today i start to test another time all the engine on the market,"


I'd be interested in your findings if you feel like sharing. Perhaps PM me, some people on this site are a little tetchy...
\"It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it\'s called Life.”
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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 16:34
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Of course Grook, i'm searching also for open source ones that i can start to code in top of to not begin from scratch.
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bjadams
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 17:32
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@Grook There are many sdks out there that are opensource and C++ based that are "similar" in style to AGK

AGK is very unique when it comes to T1 as there is nothing like it, so I really feel the T1 people who advocate it's greatness
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Markus
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 17:41
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@tgc,paul,xGEKKOx
offer:
we need a public access to a source code community "xGEKKOx" branch repository for the entire agk v2 thing.
so we are not compleate helpless if something went wrong with different os versions.
+ read access to the current version branch or trunc.
+ new docu entry about.
+ someone must add the users there.
+ agreement because source code from tgc.


AGK (Steam) V2 Beta .. : Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit : AMD (15.7.1) Radeon R7 265 : Mac mini OS X 10.10 (Yosemite)
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bjadams
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 18:02
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Markus, I don't think they want to opensource AGK

They have recently announced that they will opensource darkbasic (because it basically reached it's end of dev cycle), and that is a really great move from Lee Bamber
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MikeHart
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I would never put my stake on a closed source solution, if i need it to generate my income with it.
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bjadams
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 20:15
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MikeHart, you are so right
I had to learn this the hard way round.
In the past, I invested time & effort in closed technologies that have become redundant across the years as their creators abandoned the project... when you have a large codebase with hundreds of thousands of lines of code, you can't just re-write in a flash
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Markus
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 21:19
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@bjadams
i not mean open source direct, tgc can include source code from community after a check / code review.
but a branch "community member name" is open for everyone, so u need trust if u use it, if u can not wait for next release.
at this moment only xGEKKOx required a own branch for his changes. he can input free or after paid sum x if he want and tgc need it.
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 21:42 Edited at: 12th Oct 2015 21:44
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You know, the more I think about it, the possibility of a forked version of AppGameKit is quite intriguing.

Epic Games does it with the Unreal Engine, so why not TGC? And then Gekko could specify it to his needs and anyone else could do the same for theirs.

@All, but especially xGEKKOx:

I didn't mean to come off as harshly as I did the last couple of days. I think I was just feeling over-defensive about TGC because I have seen them getting slammed with requests/complaints on the current state of AppGameKit for a while now. In fact, a few short weeks ago I was one of those customers, because I had asked several direct questions on the state of getting AppGameKit 2 on Linux to a more workable state, and didn't receive a response for several days. Quite frustrating!

I re-read some things and I realized I completely misunderstood what Gekko meant by Paul not responding, even though I thought he had - I didn't see that Paul has not yet mentioned one word on the state of tvOS, which is where this whole conversation originated from (that and the mention of not having touched iOS code in a while).

Please, xGEKKOx, I do hope you accept my apology, I did not mean to sound angry at you or dismissive of you. I now understand what you meant by doing the same amount of work Paul could do in two months in one day (but I still want video proof haha ), and I can believe it since we all have those things we are exceptionally good at and can do very quickly. Obviously, your talent is coding!


I really am very sorry for all the hubbub I created in here - I truly didn't mean to in the slightest. Next time, I will read more carefully! But in the mean time, to everyone involved, please accept a round on me!

I am curious as to what product you're looking at - is it Monkey X? I am not gonna lie, I have been shopping for some alternatives lately too, not because of the lack of updates or communication or anything like that on TGC's part, but because it's just nice to have several tools in your arsenal!

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bjadams
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 22:32
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@Yodaman MonkeyX (or whatever its called these days) has its own language, it's not C++ so it's really not worth investing time to learn for people like Gekko & me

Also the maker of MonkeyX has a past history of making a product and then stop all development, so it's not really worth it for someone who wants to make games for a living
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Markus
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 23:24
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OT
about "games for a living"
the next language i have in mind i will give it the name atom or bubble
its on my wishlist with to do...
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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 12th Oct 2015 23:50
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Well Yodaman, of course i accept your apologize, and i'm sorry too, but who knows me here, know i write with a big voice to be read.
All the ideas, Markus, and BJ ones are great...
I explain how i couldmwork on AGK...

When Apple do an update, i spend my time to compensate the gap for my apps, then if all work i would copy to the AppGameKit code too,
sending it to the Paul trunk on a shared place where he would test and compile.

Maybe TGC could give me, or two or three of us divided for OS, the possibility to compile the test AGKLib.a
so if users would download and test the beta from us, they can, and if the code is free of bugs, Paul can compile it
and release as an official update.

i wanna be clear, i do each month with my apps about they done in the kickstarter, do you think i want to be paid from TGC?
for me TGC already done much, i repeat that they changed my life.
i done all that is in my possibilities to make them sell agk in italy, and 25 of my friends or coders is a great help i think.
but Paul can't do all alone, he need help, expecially on a os that he doesn' t use too much.

in the end, imagine you a day want to pass your code on ios, you could find a ready update, and ask me to add a feature, that for sure i already coded, so finally added in less than 48 hours.

This is the final goal i want to reach.
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bjadams
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Posted: 13th Oct 2015 06:33
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For the ones that can't decode Italo-English, all Gekko wants to do is pass on the fixes he does on iOS AppGameKit to Paul. He has already done all the work for himself to fix his own apps, he is not doing any extra work here

For the other platforms, Paul (or someone else) still has to do all the hard work

Also as i mentioned in another thread, another solution for T2 users could be to split AGK.lib into AGK_graphics.lib, AGK_sound.lib, AGK_network etc.... so we can just include the bits we need, just like SFML does it
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MikeHart
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Posted: 13th Oct 2015 06:35
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Bjadams, MonkeyX is still being worked on.
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bjadams
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Posted: 13th Oct 2015 08:30 Edited at: 13th Oct 2015 08:37
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@MikeHart, yes ofcourse, but dev on that sdk progresses at hiccups rate, it stops, the restarts, then it stops again etc....
http://www.fantomgl.com/2014/04/27/monkey-x-shows-signs-death/

The best feature of Monkey X is that it supports a lot of platforms, including consoles.
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Impetus73
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Posted: 13th Oct 2015 08:43
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The lack of reply to this thread from TGC officials are astounding...
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Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90\'s.
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