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Work in Progress / DARKSTAR: Darkbasic Pro MMORPG online space game.

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Reaperman
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2005 10:15 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2005 01:51
Hello all.

For the past 6 months Dark Studio Productions (aka: me, Reaperman, my daughter, Dragon3, Jerico2day, Twindisk and RPGamer) have been working away on a project called Darkstar.



What is Darkstar?

Darkstar is a turn based space trading, conquest and exploration game, which it could be said is an MMORPG, ( although that IS stretching it a bit ) that allows potentially tens of thousands of gamers to play at the same time.

The game covers the Earth system (SOL) and also other areas of nearby space such as Alpha Reticules, Pegasus and Wolf systems.

What is the aim of the game?

The year is 2209 and you play a character that has just managed to get the credits together to buy their first interstellar ship. Your ship is capable of transporting a small amount of goods and is also armed with Photonic Torpedoes and a short range phased laser. It has simple deflector shields but like everything your ship can be upgraded if you get enough money to do so.



You may load up goods and then set a course towards any of the habitable locations . There is also the ability to explore other areas and to perhaps earn money by mining moons, asteroids or even terra-forming whole planets.



On the downside, there is always the danger of space phenomena such as Ion Storms, Black Holes etc, plus rogue traders and even aliens. Not forgetting the other players in the game that can attack you and steal your goods, or who could go to one of your mining platforms or planets and take them over.

How does it work?

Because this game is a turn based game, there was no need for real-time moves. Instead we used a system that was similar to other turn based games, like Nemesis, where each player can make several moves and actions and then the program uploads a small text file to a server via standard ftp protocol.



There is another computer linked to the server that downloads all the available files every cycle (which is about 10 seconds) and then processes them, in order.

(Each file that the players computer uploads is time stamped)

After that, it uploads the files again and then it is simply a question of the players program to download the file and show the results of the actions.

Until now, we have had 17 people playing a limited size game, which covered just our solar system, and the graphics were represented by flat 2D.

What we now need to do is to increase the amount of players to about 200 and let them play using the new 3D graphic representation of the space map.

We have estimated that the load on cycles should not increase until we hit about 380+ players, and then it should only increase by 2 extra seconds.

What do we need.

The easy answer is: YOU.

We need people to post here if they are willing to become a player.
Because of how the game works, we need to know at this time in advance, how many will be playing.

This game works very well as a turn based game, and you will very quickly get in to it, but we need to have a lot more people playing it so that we can find out its limits and get the bugs out as fast as we can.

Also, if any of you would like to produce some music for the game, or would like to do the title screen (the one above is only temporary) then post here and tell us. We could also do with some 3d models of new craft too.

We will have the 2D engine replaced with the 3D engine within 14 more days, and everyone who posts here and wants to play will have the program emailed to them (or if you have a small email account, we will put it on a site for download).

So there you have it.

Ok, so it is NOT a realtime MMORPG, but as far as we know, no one has tried to use DBP in this way before to make a multi-player game...So it was well worth the try IMHO.

Anyone out there who wants to help us in any way, please post and let us know, or if you have questions, then ask away.


Cheers

Reaperman
BF game programmer
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2005 10:55
nice this game looks awesome i will definantly play this when it comes out. this game looks great so far dont know how how you made that nice lookin menu thing but this game looks neat. keep up the good work!!!!

james bond rules
Skeletor
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2005 11:17
This is the first Dark Basic game I have actually looked forward to playing! The game sounds very interesting and I hope it catches on with the DB community. If you want to send me the game, send it to my Gmail account ( skeletorsks87@gmail.com ). Anyhow, good luck with converting it to 3d and again I cant wait to play it!


http://www.angelfire.com/games5/db_games/
STALKER
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2005 18:38
Sign me up (bradshaw_9@hotmail.com) if it fits...

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Sergey K
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2005 19:55
the game, not looks like the first picture

By the time you finish reading this, you realize you have wasted 5sec. of your life!
click here to return your 5sec.
Baggers
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2005 21:06
Wow...this is simply great. Very Clever way of getting potentialy tonnes of people playing.
I was wondering:
* how do you handle security for players?
* Is the program that downloads the packets of the ftp server and processes them writen in DB too ?
*What ftp server and computer are you using for this game ?

Very interesting stuff, ill be back soon and probably join !

Raven
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2005 21:36
USS Darkstar?
Look nice, except for the main logo text... looks totaly out of place.

Well anyways. Look forward to a demo.
Reaperman
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2005 22:45 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2005 22:47
GogetaX and Raven eXPerience

Yes I know. The title screen was the last thing we did. It was done as a temp thing just so that it had one.

We will get around to redoing it soon.

Baggers
* how do you handle security for players?

First, the ftp access is hidden by the program, so a user would have to try and hack the main program to find out where the files are.
Second, the program a player uses has a few lines of code that are specific to that players program. This extra code is also imbedded in the txt file that the program sends to the host, which means that even if someone manages to find the server and to download a file, it wont do them any good because if they alter anything in the file (like upping the strength of weapons) then the txt file will not be able to be processed because it will not match the MCP’s mirror of the code that the players program has.

Of cause because this is a beta test so-to-speak, we expect that players will find bugs that may be exploits of the code. We found one during our last test which let a player mine an asteroid and then when it ran out of minerals all the player had to do was to leave the mining tool there and add another one which let them mine the thing all over again.

* Is the program that downloads the packets of the ftp server and processes them written in DB too?

Every bit of code is 100% DB. We don't use anything else.

*What ftp server and computer are you using for this game?

The server is a paid host for the program. The computer that runs the software that processes the files is a Dell Inspirion 5150.

Cheers

Reaperman
Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2005 23:09
wow cool game! . I was expecting to look in here at a bunch of flamers because you said the word "MMORPG", lol. But this one has potential. Ill play it when the demo comes out, and good luck .

Video games…they can take you places unreachable, impossible, unfeasible. They put you in the book...they put you in the movie...they put you in a world, a world that before could only be imagined.
David R
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 02:16
Damn cool looking game, but just one thing:

Quote: "as a few lines of code that are specific to that players program. This extra code is also imbedded in the txt file that the program sends to the host, which means that even if someone manages to find the server and to download a file, it wont do them any good because if they alter anything in the file (like upping the strength of weapons) then the txt file will not be able to be processed because it will not match the MCP’s mirror of the code that the players program has."


Where on the machine is this info kept? (on the Client) because I read a tutorial of MMPORPGS on devmaster.net (or something like that) which said you should never store any character info client side (Someone will eventually find out where it is, and hack it, believe me)

Otherwise, sounds cool. I like the idea of turn-based etc.

Good luck for the future
regaurds,
Lightning Studios

[url=www.lightningstudios.co.uk][/url]
Reaperman
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 03:24
Lightning Studios:

I take your point, but even if they got hold of the file it would do no good. The MCP knows what should be in the file due to the extra bit of code that is unique to the players program. If it is not the same then the file will be rejected.
Skeletor
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 05:09
When will the "Beta" be held?


created by "Lord ShitNipple"
Reaperman
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 06:16
It will be held as soon as we get the 3D switched with the 2D and we get about 50 or more people to play.
Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 06:59
im in

Digitalmodr
Coder_David
[Apolloed ]
Avan Madisen
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 07:00
A real potential MMORPG in DBP? Sounds cool and I'd definately be interested in joining th Beta group, if I'm welcome that is.

Small suggestion, maybe for a later upgrade, in the event the server detects that someone has hacked their files, maybe the game could fry all their files for the game and force them to start playing from scratch again. Could be a small deterant against people hacking their saved files.

Also, I suggest using random encryption as well, i.e. the game encrypts the files in a different way every time it saves them.

You could also set up a way for the game to detect players who have hacked before (will be fallible but it'd be pretty reliable) and refuse to allow them to connect to the system again.

I don't suffer from insanity - I enjoy every minute of it!
Current Project:
Lemmings Remake
Peter H
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 07:40
Good job! sounds like a pretty fun game

If you need me to help test then i'd be more then happy to help

oh, and please tell me those green lines are temporary...

"We make the worst games in the universe."

soapyfish
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 09:34
Hi Reaperman long time no see (unless I've not been looking hard enough.)

I'd be happy to test, one thing that concerns though me is my 56k connection. Are you aiming the game primarily at broadband users or will you try and keep it playable for us 56k'ers as well?





Formely play2kill

thanks for taking the time to read this sig.
Reaperman
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 09:36
Avan Madisen:

So what would you do to encrypt the files? The files are made up of words and numbers, for example:

Private, 1000,0,20000,2,5,40,30,R,200,100 etc etc etc etc

So in what way would you encrypt the above? Remember that it would have to be fast to encrypt and decrypt so as to not delay too much the cycle.

Peter_:

LOL Yes those green lines are temporary. The game will have a nice (green?) hex grid to it.
Reaperman
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 09:50
Hello soapyfish, how goes it with you.

Are you aiming the game primarily at broadband users or will you try and keep it playable for us 56k'ers as well?

There will be a slightly longer delay for people on 56k, especially when more players join in. But this should only amount to a few extra seconds, and provided that you don’t take forever and a day to take you turn, the extra seconds should not cause you any real trouble.
stupid kid
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 10:28
I'll play the game.
Mirthin_
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 11:50
Sign me up for the Beta, this sounds very interesting. Mind if I do some music too? It'll be royalty free with a mention in the credits of course
Reaperman
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 21:25
Mirthin_:

Sure, please go ahead and do the music. What we were thinking of was a bit of music for the title screen/game opening, and also a piece for when your in space and then when your in battle.

But whatever you want to do will be fine.

Cheers

Reaperman
Mirthin_
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Posted: 24th Apr 2005 05:43
I have plans for background music along the lines of what you're asking, but what do you think of cues? I think as well as having loopable music it might be a good idea to illustrate certain events, like in that screenshot that shows someone successfully colonising a planet. The cues wouldn't take me very long, and would end up at about 20-40 seconds long, which you could crossfade with the background music after it has finished. I just think that this would highlight such events, hopefully with them ending up less static and more integrated with the rest of the game. Anyways, tell me what you think. The creative process I go through sees me exploring a pallete of different moods, as that's how I like to work. I'll produce some music I'm quite sure you won't even want to use, but keep in mind that although it's a holistic thing, it is modular, and can be broken down into sections just as you said like a main theme for the title, laidback music for quieter times and gradually snowballing into tension and chaos. I look forward to working on this, and I'll start straight away.
Avan Madisen
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Posted: 24th Apr 2005 06:05 Edited at: 24th Apr 2005 06:05
Quote: "So what would you do to encrypt the files? The files are made up of words and numbers, for example:

Private, 1000,0,20000,2,5,40,30,R,200,100 etc etc etc etc

So in what way would you encrypt the above? Remember that it would have to be fast to encrypt and decrypt so as to not delay too much the cycle.
"


My method would be to store the data as a memblock and modify each inidividual byte using random numbers, as long as you include some way for the receiving system to get to the seed value without literally putting it in the data itself.

The simplest way to modify the data would be to pick a random number from 0 to 255 and add that to the number, looping any values that above 255 by subtracting 255 from the result. Then the decrypting system only needs to start from the same seed and subtract the random number from the value looping any values that go below 0.

How fast this will be you'll only find out when you try it, small files with only a few hundred bytes shouldn't pose too much of a problem but larger files may slow down a bit more. Plus the minor overhead for encrypting and decrypting data will have a knock-on effect when you've got thousands of files moving around.

Another idea is to only encrypt a small amount of the file, using the random numbers again to select which bytes (or even words, dwords, floats, etc.) to modify.

Encryption is really all about using your imagination to change data within the file so it looks like random garbage, but doing it in a way that is reversible if you know how.

I'd suggest do a test with it, compare the server playing with a huge wad of files on your current system, and then with some encryption and check the difference. The worse that can happen is all the encryption techniques you try slow it down too much and you have to go without.

[edit] damn do I write long posts...

I don't suffer from insanity - I enjoy every minute of it!
Current Project:
Lemmings Remake
Reaperman
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Posted: 24th Apr 2005 06:31
Avan Madisen:

Ok, I will have a word with the others and get back to you on that. We could try a simple set up on what we have right now to see what effect the encryption has on the full cycle time. I will get back to you on this.

Mirthin_:

Yes, I like what your saying. Sounds good.
In fact, we don’t have anyone on the team doing music, so feel free to design all the music...Hell, even join the team why not!

I will send you a list of all the events that can happen in the game which may help you when your designing the music.


Cheers

Reaperman
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 24th Apr 2005 06:32
So there is an actual working demo of this game?

Why not just post it for download rather than emailing it to people? You'd get way more players that way...

And why'd you guys take of the cool logo at the top of the thread and replaced it with a crusty space scene?

My cat! My cat is on fire! Dear god someone help!
Reaperman
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Posted: 24th Apr 2005 06:39
megaton:
Quote: "So there is an actual working demo of this game"


Of cause. I would not bother posting if we did not have it working.
See my first post for more info on it.

Quote: "Why not just post it for download rather than emailing it to people? You'd get way more players that way..."


We will. I did say in the above post: everyone who posts here and wants to play will have the program emailed to them (or if you have a small email account, we will put it on a site for download).

Quote: "And why'd you guys take of the cool logo at the top of the thread and replaced it with a crusty space scene?"


Well, that pic was just a temp one. I did like it, but it seems that a few of the other posters did not (see above), so we changed it.

But...We may change it again for the game.

In fact, if ANYONE would like to do us the title picture, go ahead. If its good enough we will use it and credit them.

Cheers

Reaperman
Iceman
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Posted: 24th Apr 2005 07:40
Like WOW how did I miss THIS!?! The first MMORPG using DBP!!!

Ya know reaper, u always do quality stuff for this forum and im sure this games gonna be great so count me in pal.
Reaperman
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Posted: 24th Apr 2005 08:25
Mirthin_:

You can check your email as I have just sent you the events list for the game.

Cheers

Reaperman
Cian Rice
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Posted: 24th Apr 2005 09:41
Reaperman get me a render of one of the ships and I'll make you a title screen. Just gimme the dimensions.

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 24th Apr 2005 09:58
Quote: "Well, that pic was just a temp one. I did like it, but it seems that a few of the other posters did not (see above), so we changed it."


Well it all falls down to the design sense of the viewer. But between me and you, that logo was what caught my attention for this great DBP project.

My cat! My cat is on fire! Dear god someone help!
Reaperman
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Posted: 24th Apr 2005 11:58
Anime Blood:

Ok, I will email you a few with info on the size etc.

megaton:

I agree with you, but we will see what we use. We may go back to the other pic, or use one that Anime Blood does.

But I liked the pic myself so if nothing better comes along I guess we will be using it again.

Cheers


Reaperman
STALKER
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Posted: 24th Apr 2005 17:38
Yes and just incase you missed it before, SIGN ME UP!!



(bradshaw_9@hotmail.com)

>>>>>>>>>>>MIRAGE STUDIOS<<<<<<<<<<<
>MEDIEVAL CARNIVAL<>GLADIATOR ARENA<
Reaperman
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Posted: 24th Apr 2005 21:17
*UPDATE*

Ok, we are going to be sending everyone on Monday or Tuesday via email our small set-up program. This will let you set-up all your player stats plus customise your ship.

It also has a built in help feature which will explain the gameplay and help you to understand the world your about to step in to.

Cheers


Reaperman
Cian Rice
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Posted: 24th Apr 2005 22:31
When should I expect an email?

Reaperman
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Posted: 24th Apr 2005 23:04
Anime Blood:

You will be getting it today ok.

If you need anything else, let me know.

Cheers


Reaperman
Reaperman
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Posted: 25th Apr 2005 01:50
Ok Anime Blood, check your email. I sent you a program that will let you get a picture of your choosing.

Cheers

Reaperman
Mirthin_
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Posted: 25th Apr 2005 02:14
Hi Reaperman, join the team? Sounds good, I don't really have any other commitments apart from college, and I'm only in there for three days a week. I got your email, and everything seems doable. In a short while I'll email you back with an update, but I'll ask before sending you any examples.
Reaperman
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Posted: 25th Apr 2005 02:16 Edited at: 25th Apr 2005 02:18
Right then,

Just to bring this thread to order.

As far as I can see, the following people want to play the game so far:

Ojaveda
Skeletor
Gil Galvanti
Apolloed
Avan Madisen
Peter_
soapyfish
stupid kid
Mirthin_
Raven eXPerience


These people will play the game after the beta testing is over and its released:

BF game programmer


Mirthin_ is doing the music for us...Look forward to hearing what you have been doing so far.

Anime Blood is doing the title screen.


Now, if I have got anything above wrong, please post and tell me.
If there are any other questions, post them.

If not, then I look forward to seeing how the beta test shapes up.

Cheers

Reaperman
Reaperman
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Posted: 25th Apr 2005 02:25
Thats fine Mirthin_, I will wait to hear from you.


Cheers


Reaperman
Reaperman
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Posted: 25th Apr 2005 03:03
Anime Blood,

The email I sent you just bounced back.
It only has a small 1.26 meg attachment on it.

Please free up some space in your email address and I will resend it.

Cheers

Reaperman
Avan Madisen
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Posted: 25th Apr 2005 07:07
I'll keep an eye out for the email Reaperman, I've got a gmail account which has 10mb attachment limits, so don't worry too much.

Will this demo be online only, or does it work offline as well?

I don't suffer from insanity - I enjoy every minute of it!
Current Project:
Lemmings Remake
Reaperman
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Posted: 25th Apr 2005 08:12
Avan Madisen:
The game will be on-line only.
Shooting cans off a fence
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Posted: 25th Apr 2005 09:53
I WANNA PLAY TOO... plz (Total_goonage@hotmail.com)

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Cian Rice
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Posted: 25th Apr 2005 10:02
Reaperman, I'm only using 6% of my total storage so I don't know why that is.

Reaperman
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Posted: 25th Apr 2005 12:12
Anime Blood:

Can your account accept 1.5 meg attachments?
If so, I will send it again to you.
Reaperman
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Posted: 25th Apr 2005 22:52
Anime Blood:

Ok, I have just sent it again and it has not bounced back...yet!

If you have it, can you please get on to the title screen ASAP.

Look forward to seeing the results.


Cheers


Reaperman
WarGoat
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Posted: 26th Apr 2005 01:45
Hey cool Reaperman. Seem to be a great game! Would like to play at it too.

Windows XP,pentium IIII, 1,9 MGZ, 256 mb memory, 128 mb video card ATI Radeon 9200 se s80 'sett squadron back on the assault'
Reaperman
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Posted: 26th Apr 2005 03:17
Anime Blood:

I spoke too soon!

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

animeblood@gmail.com


Can you please sort this out for me. Are you sure your account can accept 1.5 meg attachments?

If not, you could open a temp Yahoo or Hotmail account so that I can send it to you.

Sett:

Sure, the more play it, the better it is.


Cheers

Reaperman
Cian Rice
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Posted: 26th Apr 2005 05:38
Okay send it to my old yahoo account:
zer0_soft@yahoo.com

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