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FPSC Classic Product Chat / FPS Creator Version 1 Pricing Announcement

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RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 01:32
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Hi,

We have two important announcements to make regarding the pricing of
FPS Creator Version 1. Hopefully this will clear up the questions
that have been bubbling around the community recently.

Early Adopter Owners

All EA users will be sent access to a full FPS Creator Version 1
download FREE OF CHARGE. This will be the complete program, nothing
removed, nothing cut back, all media included + the new updated manual in PDF format (you will require your EA serial number to download V1)

What about the boxed version?

EA users also have the option to purchase FPS Creator V1 fully boxed
for a heavily discounted price. You will receive access to both a
download version AND you will be sent the complete package in the
mail. The cost for this will be $7.81 / £3.81 / Euros 7.09 (depending on your location). This essentially covers the cost of production and postage.

EA users must claim their free download / discounted price within 90
days, after which only the full priced product will be sold.

FPS Creator V1 Pricing

Since FPSC EA was first released, we have revised the pricing and will be selling V1 of FPS Creator for: $44.99 / £29.99 / E43.46. These prices do not include P&P charges. All purchases of the boxed version of V1 will receive the ability to download V1, so no need to wait for that CD through the door!

We will not be selling "just a download version".

Release is planned for early/mid September time. This is subject to a successful beta testing process, which is currently going great.

If you have any comments or feedback, then please contact us or post them here.

Commercial Director
TGC Team
[Read "The POWER of NOW by Eckhart Tolle". There is no past or future, only NOW!]
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 01:50
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Excellent news,
i assume the 90 days start from the official release date?
Have you any idea of the approx download size and will there be mirrors, i remember when EA was released a few download issues! i have got a server that you guys could use got about 400gb of space but my upload speed is only 256 but you are welcome to use it.

Welcome to the real world!
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granada
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 01:55
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All sounds good to me

Dave

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NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600 256MB DDR
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Merranvo
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 01:56
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Since FPSC EA was first released, we have revised the pricing and will be selling V1 of FPS Creator for: $44.99 / £29.99 / E43.46. These prices do not include P&P charges.

Technically shouldn't us EA'rs get a refund. You said that we wouldn't lose anything by being a EA'r, well I just lost $11, and that is a lot of money.

Blasting, Shooting, and Maiming. Aspects of Modern Gamming.
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 02:04
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@merranvo

You have'nt lost anything!!! you've gained:

1. NO LICENSE
2. FREE UPGRADE TO V1 (download)

i think thats worth a lot more than $11.00!!

Welcome to the real world!
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Aoneweb
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 02:38 Edited at: 24th Aug 2005 00:43
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Add $7.81 for the boxed version, Good Stuff.

Toshiba,3.2Ghz,ATI Radeon 9000 IGP 128mb,1.2gig of Ram,Windows XP Home. www.aoneweb.com

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Pulsar Coder
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 03:27
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Well, that depends: how much is the average P&P charges estimated for new adopters? Will they have to buy the boxed version to get the dowload one or can they only buy the download version of v1?
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Pulsar Coder
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 03:31
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And with the "only" there I mean whether or not new adopters can buy & get the download version of FPSC v1 without buying the boxed one ...
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Aoneweb
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 03:35 Edited at: 24th Aug 2005 00:44
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The V1 cost is a bargain.

Toshiba,3.2Ghz,ATI Radeon 9000 IGP 128mb,1.2gig of Ram,Windows XP Home. www.aoneweb.com

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uman
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 03:41
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Well thats what the Math says - though its just unfortunate that EA users will have paid more than otherwise would be the case if they had waited for V1. However - personally I would not deny new future users the lower cost because I had paid a certain price and in the interim TGC have made a financial decision which will benefit others and perhaps the product long term. To be fair they could let EA purchasers have a similar overall pricing deal to full V1 new purchasers but I guess that wont be the case. Seems a rather strange and illogical decision from EA users point of view I would think, but there you have it.

And just think of it - if anyone who purchased EA would have waited for V1 they would have missed the privillage of all those wonderful moments tearing their hair out working with EA.

You wouldn't have missed that for the world I'm sure and still mind paying extra for it.

Ok, Ok,

.............only joking
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 03:51
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Quote: "Technically shouldn't us EA'rs get a refund. You said that we wouldn't lose anything by being a EA'r, well I just lost $11, and that is a lot of money."


Don't forget that shipping on the full version is $6.70. This must be added to the new $ retail price (because it's not optional). So the math levels out at US EA'ers having paid $4.30 more in the end.

Even so, we do appreciate that this is the case for a few of our customers, and are deciding what to do with regards to the $4.30. If you've any ideas, post them here. If the exchange rate goes nuts again between now and release in mid September the $ price will go up accordingly.

A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices.
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Aoneweb
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 03:52
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Quote: "And just think of it - if anyone who purchased EA would have waited for V1 they would have missed the privillage of all those wonderful moments tearing their hair out working with EA.

You wouldn't have missed that for the world I'm sure and still mind paying extra for it."


LOL, I have to agree with that.

Toshiba,3.2Ghz,ATI Radeon 9000 IGP 128mb,1.2gig of Ram,Windows XP Home. www.aoneweb.com

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 03:53
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Quote: "And with the "only" there I mean whether or not new adopters can buy & get the download version of FPSC v1 without buying the boxed one ..."


There is NO "download only" version of V1. We will only sell the boxed version. Buying the boxed version allows you access to a download while you wait for the package to arrive, but we will not be selling the download on its own at all.

A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices.
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Aoneweb
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 04:02 Edited at: 24th Aug 2005 00:45
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I wish V1 was here now, cant wait.

Toshiba,3.2Ghz,ATI Radeon 9000 IGP 128mb,1.2gig of Ram,Windows XP Home. www.aoneweb.com

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 04:21
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DM bundled with DB/Pro had nothing to do with us I'm afraid. The publisher (which is NOT us) decided to combine them, so that was that. You may like to think we have control over this, but you'd be wrong.

Traditionally all our pricing is worked out in sterling (UK £) and then all other countries pay whatever the exchange rate is at the time, hence why EA was $56 (the base price is £29.99). FPSC V1 is the first bit of software we're selling priced for the country, not the exchange rate, so we'll make much less on $ orders for it, but it'll be more competively priced for that market, so these things should balance themselves out.

But in doing so it does mean that approx. a third of the EA users (remember this doesn't have any impact on customers outside the US) will have "over spent" by $4.30 - so we're happy to find a way to make that up to them if they've got any suggestions how best to go about it.

A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices.
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Les0985
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 04:25
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You can take 4.30 off the 7.81 (shipping) for those of us who stood behind you and bought the EA
(just trying to be fair )
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Aoneweb
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 04:28
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Quote: "DM bundled with DB/Pro had nothing to do with us I'm afraid. The publisher (which is NOT us) decided to combine them, so that was that. You may like to think we have control over this, but you'd be wrong."

I did not know that, I apologies for getting that one wrong.

Quote: "But in doing so it does mean that approx. a third of the EA users (remember this doesn't have any impact on customers outside the US) will have "over spent" by $4.30 - so we're happy to find a way to make that up to them if they've got any suggestions how best to go about it."


As I said, I will swallow the extra, but sometimes I could kick myself for moving to the US, what am I on about, I have a 3 bedroom house built for under $150,000

Thanks Rich.

Toshiba,3.2Ghz,ATI Radeon 9000 IGP 128mb,1.2gig of Ram,Windows XP Home. www.aoneweb.com

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Great Knight
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 04:42
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Quote: "....customers outside the US) will have "over spent" by $4.30 - so we're happy to find a way to make that up to them if they've got any suggestions how best to go about it."


Subtract it from the shipping cost.
$7.81-$4.30=$3.51

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Aoneweb
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 04:50 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2005 04:52
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Quote: "so we're happy to find a way to make that up to them if they've got any suggestions how best to go about it."


Do the art work for my game idea, I suck at modeling.

Tell you what, if you agree, I throw in another $5.

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Swhale aka The FPS Creator
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 05:14 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2005 05:16
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i have a suggestion as to how you could make it up to us, the people who put our full faith in you guys with a basically beta version of the final software. i would like to have an update or upgrade of my choice for fps creator free of charge. i know you guys had said before that there will be add-ons such as sound effects and further enhancements to raise the quality of our games. i beleive that would be fair enough, i almost take offence to the final product being cheaper. i have been using this software for quite a while now, and all it is doing for me is giving practice for this final version. dont get me wrong, i do understand your position, and that is why i made the aforementioned suggestion. great thanks for all the work the fps creator team has been doing.

Visit my computer tips and tricks web site here, www.angelfire.com/falcon/miles_web
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Aoneweb
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 05:22 Edited at: 24th Aug 2005 00:47
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Quote: "Early Adopter Owners

All EA users will be sent access to a full FPS Creator Version 1
download FREE OF CHARGE. This will be the complete program, nothing
removed, nothing cut back, all media included + the new updated manual in PDF format (you will require your EA serial number to download V1)"


There ya go.

What might be nice is getting the final V1 before non EA owners, jus to be selfish.

Toshiba,3.2Ghz,ATI Radeon 9000 IGP 128mb,1.2gig of Ram,Windows XP Home. www.aoneweb.com

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 05:45
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Most people have not caught on at all. They are not lowering the price for US buyers the currency exchange rate has gotten better since it's release making it cheaper. This is totally out of their control. I for one am thrilled to see this announcement. US currency is getting better again. As he said FPSC has always been £29.99 as far as I remember. Good news about the download until the boxed version arrives as well

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Pulsar Coder
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 07:49
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Quote: "i would like to have an update or upgrade of my choice for fps creator free of charge"


That could be a good solution -from EA'ers' viewpoint ...
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Chimera
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 11:11 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2005 11:12
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Mid september... Wasn't it planned for July?

Don't eat yellow snow!
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chuckie
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 11:35
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Actually Richard, the EA price is $56, plus you're saying I have to pay another $7.81 to get the boxed version shipped to me = $63.81. New users pay $44.99 + $6.70 = $51.69. This means I pay $12.12 more than a new user buying the boxed version. $4.30 is the difference if I don't have to pay $7.81 to have it shipped to me!

Oh, and this does affect people outside the US - I'm in Australia and paid for the product in US dollars because the Australian rate of exchange is best with that currency.

I too, consider myself a loyal customer for purchasing the EA version and would like to be rewarded with a boxed version shipped to me at no extra cost - even this will still make me $4.30 worse off than a new user paying a total of $51.69 for a boxed version shipped to them!

Regards
Chuckie
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BatVink
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 11:41
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Are you the guys who complain when his bananas he bought last week are on offer this week?

You just got several months of playing with a product that hasn't reached Version 1 yet. When it's released, you'll hit the ground running, and produce games that are worth playing from the moment you get the product.

You will be the experts on this forum, the ones that the newbies look up to, and wonder just how you did that.

Isn't that worth a few, measly dollars?

On another note, maybe TGC could give you a "sampler" download of models and sounds to keep you happy.

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 12:02
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I still fail to see how you can blame this price change on TGC. Why should they lose money because US currency went up in value since you bought your copy? Your money (and mine $56) was only worth £29.99 then and now they are estimating that $44.99 USD will be worth £29.99 (the price of the EA and V1 in their currency). You should be happy the USD has gone up in value instead of complaining. They got your $56 when it wasn't worth as much though they should update the prices if you buy it today. However I say they are estimating as the current ratio is £29.99 to $53.14 USD I believe. Rick may have even had an error in his conversion. TGC always uses £ for their base price and convert to other currencies.

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Jess T
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 12:12
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Quote: "would like to be rewarded with a boxed version shipped to me at no extra cost"


So, you suddenly think that you shouldn't have to pay for Shipping?

And packaging?

And cost of Marketing the BOXED version?

Wow... You like to get stuff for nothing, eh?

Team EOD :: All-Round Nice Guy
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slacer
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 12:40
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Quote: "so we're happy to find a way to make that up to them if they've got any suggestions how best to go about it.
"


Well, you could add some unique artwork (buildings, characters, weapons,...) for EA owners only.

As pure download option, otherwise you would have to compile two boxes...
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JimB
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 13:19
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Let's see,I paid £30 + £5.25 (vat @ 17.5%) and now it's being reduced to £29.99,so that would be around £29.99 + £5.24 = £35.23
(roughly).
Well of all the dirty tricks,hey Rich tell Lee he can go out and
squander my 1.2p on his favourite coffee.

or did I miss something here?
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Oswald
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 14:28
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Well, I think it kind of sux. Remember one thing... they have issued the EA version to have us comment their product, give suggestions, "beta-test" their product etc... so we basically helped to make this product even better. Oh... and don't forget the free market analysys we provided them whith!!! And as a thanx, we payed a higher price at the end. In my case, I payed 50.53 Euros... now its 43.46 Euros.... hey, I know that's peanuts... but I just think it's unfair.... and the "exchange rates" explanations doesn't make this look more fair! TGC should really tease the EA-users whith a free extra.... just to compromise our losses... so... like 7 Euros...
Maybe some free addons... just something that makes us EA users think we did not get kicked in the head for supporting TGC.
Happy customers are longterm customers!
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uman
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 15:10
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I recon FPSC V1 is likely to be the best game engine you are likely to find in its class for anything like the asking price whether you already purchased EA or not. You wont find another engine with such a capability and range of features that I am aware of in its price range. Its a good value for money product and well worth the price.

I guess thats not desputed and not the point being made - though I personally have no gripe at all as I am just pleased that there is at least TGC alone with the foresight amongst game engine developers that can bring such a powerful and easy to use tool at affordable cost to so many people.

Just imagine trying to Create, script and set-up a working, functioning MP game in any other engine whatever the cost and the headaches, labour effort, testing and development time you would have to invest to achieve that. Really - It does not bear thinking about in comparison with FPSC V1 I can tell you.

MP game creation capability alone is worth the value of V1 to me....... Make game...compile game...play game...now thats value for money.

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Manster
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 15:28
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I'm excited about the product and the price. I spent $100 and 200 hours to learn the Torque Game Engine. All I got was a HUGE headache and a complex game engine that requires you to learn C++ before you even get out of the gate!

I created my first game in FPSC in less than an hour. I'm diving into the scripting so I can really get this going. Talk about tons of gratification. I'd gladly pay 3 times the amount for the full version (although it wouldn't really be my money

I haven't spent the time most of have, but it sounds like everyone jumped on the bandwagon to support this product and now that it is about to be released, everyone wants some sort of break, on a package that is better, faster, and still cheaper than anything out there.

Be happy that you were a part of creating something great. Get your money back by creating and selling a game that will knock people right out of their shoes!
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 17:23
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A free model pack for EA users is certainly a possibility. Depends how many models would be expected for $4.30 though! But I'll mention it to the rest of the team.

Quote: "TGC always uses £ for their base price and convert to other currencies."


Yes this is true, the only difference being V1 $ which is priced for the market, not the exchange rate (see my previous post for an explanation). If we were pricing based just on the exchange rate then it'd cost around $53 like you said, but this time we're not in order to widen appeal.

I guess we could always stick the price up to $49.99, then with P&P added it's exactly the same as the EA price and no-one can complain, and we need give away no free models, etc. Definitely an option.

A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices.
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BatVink
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 18:17
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I have a fantastic idea

When EA was released, it was common knowledge the price did NOT allow you to sell your games. You could give anyone who is unhappy about the situation a version that doesn't allow you to sell your games, and sticks the FPSC logo in your game again.

If they want to sell using this version, they can pay an extra $100 or so for an upgraded license.

***************************************************
What I'm saying is...TGC will no doubt give you far more for your money than you expected!
***************************************************

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rabogreen
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 18:41
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BatVink,

I agree! But, rememeber these words from the fspcreator website:
"The total price you will pay (for the EA version + the Upgrade fee) will be exactly the same as if you had purchased Version 1 on its own. In other words there will be no financial penalty for being an Early Adopter at all."

Many wont be able to get beyond that. I dont' really care, but if TGC decides to try and "make good" I suggest a coupon towards the purchase of other items from TGC. DAZ did that with Bryce 5.5 and I took advantage of that by buying some models from them. I'd do the same with TGC although it would probably be some of the utils instead of the models.

rabogreen
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Pulsar Coder
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 19:11 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2005 19:57
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The strategic move could base on commercial and potential marketshare issues, no one should discuss about that -since it's a right the enterprise has, but ethically speaking, EA'ers -at least, the ones affected- have the right to complain, given the following commitment to all EA'ers (regardless the currency):

Quote: "The total price you will pay (for the EA version + the Upgrade fee) will be exactly the same as if you had purchased Version 1 on its own. In other words there will be no financial penalty for being an Early Adopter at all."


You can always break a promise, but don't expect not to loss some credibility in the future ... off course, maybe you don't care 'bout that because the funding was already obtained and the product developed ... but, where's the ethics to loyal customers?

And USD 7, 11, 12, or even more could be consider as nothing to each EA'er given the potential use of FPSC, but multiply that difference for the amount of customers' affected and for the enterprise the resulting number could be something ...
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SarusX
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 19:52
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People who bought EA could be automatically allowed to test Beta's of upcoming versions.


Why do today what you could have someone else do?
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SoulMan
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 20:20
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I just have more or less one thing to say on this.
No Royalties.
If the rest of you want to complain about $5-$10, remember the big picture. You now can sell whatever game you make and not pay FPSC a single dime. Is that not worth the extra $5? Besides, if you already have the EA version and have the option to download V1 for free, why are you complaining so much? I am an EA user and it's my stance that $7 is fair for production and shipping if you want a physical version. As for it being $45 for new users, that doesn't bother me. Some of the customers here weren't able to get in on the EA release. Heck, the entire country of France was barred from purchasing a copy of it if I remember correctly.
SoulMan

This is as backwards as is This
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Pulsar Coder
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 22:02 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2005 22:55
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Well SoulMan, that's the whole point, the "big picture" you've mentioned, the product is awesome and also the no-royalties policy ... I don't regret buying it, on the contrary, I'm glad to have FPSC and play around with it ...

... but if TGC's able to chage committments to its customers in a "de facto" way, then nothing will prevent TGC's from going back to royalties anytime.

Actually, I don't care 'bout the extra bucks I've paid nor expect to get them back, but I do care about ethics & commitments. Thus, I want to have my "soul" in peace, knowing that the no-royalties policy will never be changed for FPSC, and not to be cought in the middle of a development process with sudden news about changes in that policy ...

That's the thing that really matters here ... imho ... anything else is a "Pirric Battle" ...
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Oswald
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 22:12
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Quote: "If the rest of you want to complain about $5-$10, remember the big picture. You now can sell whatever game you make and not pay FPSC a single dime"

That is not the point! It just stinks that not supporting TGC with the things I've mentioned before (like providing free market analysis, suggestions etc) results in paying less.
I give a damn about the few bucks... but it still sux.
But after all this talking, I'm sure TGC will find a solution that makes all EA users happy!
(Hope I'm right with that!?)
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 23:51
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Quote: "I guess we could always stick the price up to $49.99, then with P&P added it's exactly the same as the EA price and no-one can complain, and we need give away no free models, etc. Definitely an option."


Sounds like a plan to me. FPSC is well worth $49.99 and more IMO, especially when it gets done.

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uman
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 23:53 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2005 23:57
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Ultrahead,

I wrote a long post and just deleted it as I always write to much anyways as you guys know so here the short version.

Quote: "but I do care about ethics & commitments"



.......More important than the bucks cos we like nice people hear at the FPSC forum.
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=ChrisB=
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2005 00:01
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IMHO, FPSC is worth well over $50!! I cabn say hat now cause I can get the upgrade download, or the final BETA, or what ever.

Formerly I was CDBGames, and formerly to that i was Duke Nukem, and even more formerly to that
I was Punk Rock 101. Got it?
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uman
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2005 00:06
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Lost in Thought

Agreed....

A fair plan....the best option in the first place, which I dont see that anyone should have any justification at all to complain about.

And TGC would make more money that way which I would support so that they can continue with the good work.

That should be an end to the debate
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Aoneweb
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2005 00:28 Edited at: 24th Aug 2005 00:49
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It has been said the team is going to make it up to all EA owners, How good is that.

Toshiba,3.2Ghz,ATI Radeon 9000 IGP 128mb,1.2gig of Ram,Windows XP Home. www.aoneweb.com

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uman
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2005 01:08
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Whatever country or currency is referred to - the exchange rate certainly makes a difference both to TGC as sellers of a product and users as purchasers. At least it does in the world in which I live.

At the end of the day this thread is going nowhere as TGC will make a final decision and everyone will have to live with it or not if they cant come to terms with that. It seems like with any other forum issue they will never please everyone so its going to be tough on some - thats just the way it will be.

Sorry about that - Thats all from me on this one as its a waste of my valuable time. I got better things to do relating to FPSC.

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MaddA ChieF
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2005 02:10
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You all should stop acting like babies. Your hardely gonna loose any money(unless you a bum or somthing). I know, I know, TGC did say the is no penalty for buying the ea at all. Not true. But its only about $5 and they have jam-packed v1 with some awesome features. Plus now we all know how to go about FPSC and be able to make a great game cus you know how to script, know how to use the main features of the program, know how to import models and other stuff. Right when we get v1 we can start making great games without learning much. I don't think its much of a problem. Think about it guys.

@Richard
I don't quite understand the thing where you get to download v1 and get the boxed version too. Do you get to download v1 online so you will be able to use it while the boxed version is being sent to you? If so that would be nice cus I live all the way in Califorina. A long ways to ship for us in California.

thanks
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2005 03:46
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If they would correctly convert the currency over from pounds to USD there would be no lose to anyone. As it currently stands we did lose money because $44.99 is not worth 30 pounds. $53.1 or somewhere there abouts is. But as rich said if they would correct it to the current conversion rate (or appx $49.99) there would be no reason to complain about anything as they cannot be held accountable for our economy getting better. People who complain about their economy getting better are behaving very childish.

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Merranvo
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2005 04:55 Edited at: 4th Aug 2005 05:59
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ENOUGH...

Seriously, when I posted that I thought that this forum would generate GOOD replys. 90% of you are "greedy little children". The only one that I would agree with is the shipping deduction. (Previous Exchange Rate)-(Current Exchange Rate) = Shipping Reduction.

There should be NO specailty because we were EA'rs, we agreed to be EA'rs and ONLY receive the software early. There should be NO specailty upgrade simply because of the small money difference, those upgrades cost MORE then your loss. No EA specailty's at all.

This has turned into a whine fest, I only whined because I don't have a lot of income and I paid for FPSC out of my pocket. What do you have to whine about? Most of you have posted in threads saying, "My boss bought this, or I just got my father to but this". And the comming post "get a job" I will counter now by stating the fact that Most Teens can't get a REAL deskjob that isn't really "Errands Boy" job. I'll explain if you really want to, but I don't feel like typing the difference out.

Think of the countries who's money has decreased in value, pity them.

I appologise if you have already settled this, but after reading 1/2 of the first page, I just couldn't read any more crap.

Blasting, Shooting, and Maiming. Aspects of Modern Gamming.
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