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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Full Level Design Walkthrough for DBP - Design, Modelling, Texturing, Exporting.

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x1b
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Posted: 9th Jan 2006 23:49
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Your site is really starting to look good,Bat.

- Do it, Do it Right, Do it right now..
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x1b
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Posted: 10th Jan 2006 01:50
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downloading the source now. pouring my self a beer while vs7 fires up.

- Do it, Do it Right, Do it right now..
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Mattman
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Posted: 10th Jan 2006 04:18 Edited at: 10th Jan 2006 04:28
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[edit] I keep thinking i'm smart. But I'm not [/edit]

Why make sense when you could make brownies?
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Pulsar Coder
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Posted: 10th Jan 2006 04:52
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@MC: very good reading.

One question though about Gile[s] x-format export: why does it export two meshes? Is multitexturing unavailable for this format?

Regarding DBO format and 5.9, will next versions of DBP accept this format?
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BatVink
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Posted: 10th Jan 2006 10:36
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Pulsar Coder, check out this thread for the latest info on Giles and DB Pro...

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=69186&b=1

This will ultimately be good news for this tutorial, as it will provide optimal meshes for your level.

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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 10th Jan 2006 15:00
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nice looking site BatV...

hey Megaton... i'm gonna spread the word about your tutorial over on the Blitz forum, the 3DRAD forum, and any other place that coder/developers/artists hang out... the tut is really that good, and i think that anyone making a game, no matter what dev platform they are using might benefit from it...

--Mike
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 10th Jan 2006 19:26
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Quote: "One question though about Gile[s] x-format export: why does it export two meshes? Is multitexturing unavailable for this format?

Regarding DBO format and 5.9, will next versions of DBP accept this format?"


I don't see what multi-texturing has to do with this. The first .x file is the textured level mesh and the second is the alpha lightmap mesh that is ghosted over the first .x file.

Next versions of DBPwill NOT accept the Gile[s] format because it is the Gile[s] format that needs updating.

Quote: "hey Megaton... i'm gonna spread the word about your tutorial over on the Blitz forum, the 3DRAD forum, and any other place that coder/developers/artists hang out... the tut is really that good, and i think that anyone making a game, no matter what dev platform they are using might benefit from it..."


Thanks alot Red, really appriciate it.

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David T
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Posted: 10th Jan 2006 20:17
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Quote: "I don't see what multi-texturing has to do with this"


I think he means having one model with a lightmap and a texture map multitextured on it.

I know Apex's CSM importer does that. Jolly handy.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 10th Jan 2006 20:38
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Well, really pissed at the moment.

Decided to make the video-tutorial free afterall. Took about an hour to fully complete it. Sighed with relief and hit the "Stop recording" button, and the whole thing rendered for a bit, then crashed and destroyed everything.

No more video crap. Written stuff all the way for me now.

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John H
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Posted: 10th Jan 2006 21:08
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Gotta love rendering crashes that destroy everything...Sorry to hear Megaton


Join Our Forums and get game updates faster!
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 10th Jan 2006 22:02 Edited at: 11th Jan 2006 20:43
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Hey guys

Uploaded the new free Gile[s] quick tutorial. You can find it on here

http://www.vgstudy.com/

and on my first post in the thread. Releasing FREE RPG house-building tutorial Friday, so don't miss it if you're newb.

Cat out.

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Pulsar Coder
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Posted: 10th Jan 2006 22:26 Edited at: 10th Jan 2006 22:29
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ok, I rephrase my questions: is it possible to avoid creating two meshes when dealing with the x format? Is it possible to have both the texturemap and the lightmap in one X mesh? So as to reduce the number of polys rendered ...

Edit:
Quote: "Next versions of DBPwill NOT accept the Gile[s] format because it is the Gile[s] format that needs updating."


So, you mean that next versions of DPB will not accept DBO meshes exported by Gile[s] unless the latter modifies the way it exports DBO files ...
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 10th Jan 2006 22:32
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Quote: "So, you mean that next versions of DPB will not accept DBO meshes exported by Gile[s] unless the latter modifies the way it exports DBO files ..."


Yes.

Quote: "is it possible to avoid creating two meshes when dealing with the x format?"


Yes, just create the basic textured mesh without the lightmap.

Quote: " Is it possible to have both the texturemap and the lightmap in one X mesh?"


Don't think so, that's why we miss .DBO so much.

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CTF Freak
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 02:25
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I have attached the map for the tutorial in .dbo format and it works in 5.9
if you get "deled lite" you can do the same for free.
It has a .csm importer and a dbo exporter.
I like cshop better so thats all I use it for.
If you get pro you get better lightmap options.

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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 15:38
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That little Giles Tutorial is really cool too, slightly cleared up a few issues for me that i'd had


Preorder EA here:http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=67575&b=8&p=0
+ Model Pro out now in Program Announcements!
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David T
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 17:58
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Gile[s] would be great, if you could import back into CShop again. That's all that's stopping me using it Apex's CShop importer is so cool.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 20:45
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Jonny got us a .com domain...wicked! Thanks!

www.vgstudy.com

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Pulsar Coder
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Posted: 12th Jan 2006 15:11 Edited at: 12th Jan 2006 15:50
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One question regarding the first tutorial: after exporting the lightmapped X-format mesh from Gile[s], how can normal mapping be applied to that mesh?

EDIT: a "normal" shader should be applied to each "limb" of the X file in relation with its normal map. So, is it possible to set an effect to a limb?
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 12th Jan 2006 16:47
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@Megaton -
Quote: "No more video crap. Written stuff all the way for me now."


Just so you know, I'd buy that video tutorial. I'm sure many others would as well. Just break up the recording into 10 minute chunks. An hour is just pushing your luck.


Pong y2k.5 - Balls of Steel, Beta http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=60999&b=8
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David T
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Posted: 12th Jan 2006 17:31 Edited at: 12th Jan 2006 17:32
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Quote: "Just so you know, I'd buy that video tutorial. I'm sure many others would as well"


Shhhhh!

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x1bwork
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Posted: 12th Jan 2006 17:58
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I'm with cash on that. If you make it, they will come...

Do it man. You took my advice on doing the tutorial and now look where it is.

Do the vid, take your time doing it and ask a small fee for your time and effort.
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Freddy 007
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 14:41
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I'll quote myself from the other post you made on the CShop forum:

Quote: "Just before I start reading : Do I have to own a copy of Gile[s] to be able to follow this tutorial? Or will 3DWS's lightmapper do? Also, I can't find the spline tool in 3DWS, should there even be one?"


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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 04:25
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Hi

I know I said I'd release the house tut on Friday but I've decided to redo it using 3DWS CSG operations for faster work flow. Time to advance from the dinosaur ages.

Sorry!
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Oddmind
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 06:52 Edited at: 16th Jan 2006 06:53
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aye. Im not sure if this has been posted yet, but i was going through your level on my lappy, and about 30 minutes later i finally got to the room with the red light. Since i was taking everything in pretty well due to the slow FPS and things, i noticed this



no big deal but i thought i would look important

EDIT: Yes my fps there is 14, the highest i ever got...

formerly KrazyJimmy
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BatVink
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 13:16
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This is the first time I've used Cshop, but I have read the manual. The tutorial isn't doing what it says on the tin:

*************************************************
Drag and hit Enter to make your main box. Make sure the floor is only 1 grid-block thin and below The X-axis. Hit the F5 key to go into "Select vertex" mode. Select the 2 bottom vertexes in the Top-View and drag them as shown in the screenshot.



...That was super simple right? You just drag floors to re-create our design that's on paper...
*************************************************

That doesn't work for me. When I drag the vertices, it just changes the shape of the original box. It doesn't create more vertices as it shows in the picture. Any help on this one?

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BatVink
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 14:14
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Oh...and the bit about scale seems to be missing I really do need to know why my warehouse is as big as my bathroom

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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 15:06 Edited at: 16th Jan 2006 15:10
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@ OddMind... you mean those two anti-grav units floating above the floor... what's wrong with em

--Mike
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Peter H
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 15:19
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@OddMind- what exactly is your avatar doing?

"We make the worst games in the universe..."
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 16:43
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hey... has anyone tried adding some fog to the level... say a range of about 150...

so far, it seems that fogging and lightmapping don't seem compatible...

--Mike
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BatVink
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 17:17
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What upgrade of DB Pro? I'm sure i read that it was broken at 5.8 and fixed at 5.9

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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 17:42 Edited at: 16th Jan 2006 17:43
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5.8... don't tell me i've gotta reinstall the 5.9 update!!!

hey... if you get a free second, could ya fog the level in 5.9 and put up a shot...

thx BV

--Mike
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Mattman
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 18:36 Edited at: 16th Jan 2006 18:36
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BatVink - I also asked Megaton about this but he just thought I was an idiot. I just did what it said without looking at the pictures in that section and its gone smoothly since, excpet for the spline walls. I cant click on the same point as an existing vertice for some reason...

Why make sense when you could make brownies?
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BatVink
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 21:50
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Quote: "I cant click on the same point as an existing vertice for some reason"


I found the same. I zoom in and click close, but not exactly on it. You'll find that even with snapping to grid switched on, it doesn't line up anyway so you have to go back over it in any case.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 21:56
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OddMind: Well uh...it's a scifi level so maybe crates float in the future.

BatVink: Guess I wasn't clear enough. You first create the large "main" box I have in the picture, then create a smaller rectangle under it, then proceed to drag the vertices of the smaller rectangle into angles as shown bellow. Leave the large one untouched!

Hope that helped, and sorry.
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BatVink
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 22:30
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That makes more sense, and is how I actually proceeded

What made it easier was using the first block as a template, and copying it each time I wanted a new section.

This tutorial has been a good kick-start for me with Cshop and Giles, especially now we have the importer. I have a beautifully lit arena, with a glass ceiling and the frames casting a shadow across the room.

I also tested the imported GLS file in 1024 * 768, and it made no impact on performance.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 22:36
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Wicked, would be interested in seeing a fly-around demo of your .gls map room in action using the new importer.
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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 22:41
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Nice Tutorial. Very user friendly, and that is hard to find in many tutorials.

We have fallen Into an abyss! Dear God captian! There all Bars.
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Pulsar Coder
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 15:01
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Hi,

Regarding the sample mesh, some improvements should be carried out in order to increase performance. Read this:

http://www.frecle.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2562#2562
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 15:43
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Yeah, I see the problem - I've gone 300 faces over the limit. -_-'

Guess future stuff will need to be smaller, or seperated into chuncks.

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Pulsar Coder
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 17:40
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Does CShop export the normals data or not? It seems not (when I open it with UU3D normals seems to be missed and I guess that is why DeleD importer mixes everything up and faces are calculated wrong).

What about 3DWS?
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Oddmind
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hmm ok thanks, i was wondering baout the anti gravity aspects of megatons *fetish* er... DM room he was dying to create. We all know what goes on in the room with the blue lights... dont we?

i didnt really get the part about dragging" the vertices either... i will defrag my braing and maybe it will make sence.

@ oktober : go here... www.purepwnage.com and watch all of the videos... you will be addicted and want to watch more. the guy in my sig is "pwning". duh

formerly KrazyJimmy
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BatVink
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Posted: 20th Jan 2006 16:34
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Red Oktober - Fog is a problem. It seems to change depending on the direction you turn. In certain directions the fog distance reduces to 0, and in other directions it's about the right distance. In any case, the blend is just...wrong!

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re faze
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Posted: 20th Jan 2006 23:07
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we need zfog

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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x1b
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Posted: 20th Jan 2006 23:24
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mega, have you done or doing a vid for this yet ?

- Do it, Do it Right, Do it right now..
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 14:53
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yeah... you're 100% right on the fog thing BV...

--Mike
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 00:39 Edited at: 24th Jan 2006 00:40
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Still working on that RPG house tutorial...bit by bit. It won't be a vid, but a free written tut as I said earlier. I'm going to give the tuts a rest as I want to take the chance to produce & sell some of my own game asset packs.

Hey, you guys are selling dlls and plugins up the ying-yang, now it's my turn.

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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 24th Jan 2006 01:21
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hahahahaha.... yeah, you deserve to make a few bucks

take a well deserved break from the tuts...

and THANKS again, they're great...

--Mike
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Chilled Programmer 420
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 22:18
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ive only had a quick look but that looks sick, im lookin forward to workin through it, cheers

[url=www.freewebs.com/tyhrfg][img]bruce.bmp[/img][/url]
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Omikron
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Posted: 10th Feb 2006 08:15 Edited at: 10th Feb 2006 08:17
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Megaton Cat I salute you.

Finally, a well written tutorial based upon tools that I can use!

The amount of blurb I've read on "good level design" that explains itself using Maya, 3d Studio Max and other Boeing 747 cockpits that i've been reading previously, it's been like using a 150-mode powerdrill to brush my teeth up until i read this.

To show how to use tools like CS and [g]iles to go from a single solitary block and forth into a little world using more near-identical blocks and STILL make it look good, it's the first method of level design that has actually worked for me.

(apologies for any typos / grammar errors. it's really early)


http://www.zahrielomega.net
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Megaton Cat
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Thanks Omikron, I've read an article a few years ago from Shigeru Miyamoto himself that said the best level design is the one that uses as much primative shapes as possible. I see people here with the mindset of thinking that you have to pump a level full of pre-made objects in order to look good, while completly ignoring simple vertex manipulation that can be used to amazing extent.

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