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Dark Physics & Dark A.I. & Dark Dynamix / TGC / AGEIA Dark Physics Competition 2006

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CTF Freak
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Posted: 4th Sep 2006 22:35
Ok... I'm not 100% sure what you meant so I'll just tell you.
I was making a domino demo with amazing domino machines and stuff
but you don't really "do" anything just watch it.

Or would I have to make it like something where you make a domino
track yourself to get from point "a" to point "b"?
The WhiteDragon
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Posted: 4th Sep 2006 23:07 Edited at: 4th Sep 2006 23:09
Quote: "
See the Competition FAQ (read my first post in this thread), it covers that and a lot more, when combined with the rules page too.
"


Ah, I’m sorry I didn’t know you edit your 1st post and added that info (I didn’t check 1st page since yesterday heh).
So answer to me and those who might ask the same thing is, plug-ins are allowed.
Thank you.

"Enjoy the moment... forget the past and the future. Eternity is here..."
Peter H
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Posted: 4th Sep 2006 23:27
Ok, here's two reasons why i'm probably not going to enter into the competition anymore....

1) This isn't a big reason but on the Dark Physics site it says
Quote: "If you don't own Dark Physics then you can download a special trial version of DarkBASIC Professional 6.2 + Dark Physics. This version will expire at the end of November 2006"
The link it provides goes to a download page with only a version that expires at the end of October and is majorly features limited, which brings me to my main reason.

2) I tried to set up a vehicle today since that's a major part of my game idea (there's plenty more than vehicles but that's what the player uses) but i get this error when trying to use any of the vehicle commands in Dark Physics "This command is not supported in the trial version of Dark Physics"

fine, i understand it's a trial and you want people to buy the real thing... but it doesn't make sense to tout it as a way to compete in the competition (especially since there are more areas removed, i'm not certain which ones but you say on the dark physics site "we have purposely removed several key areas of the physics DLL"

of course we could control vehicles and whatever else has been removed with our own code or some other physics system but that defeats the purpose of showing off your fancy physics... also alternatively, you could accept provided physics in the trial and leave out whatever was left out, but that would hardly result in a game that is amazing in the physics department.

So in reality this competition is just for those who own Dark Physics or those who wish to mix DarkPhysics and other stuff... which is fine but it was flaunted as "TGC Competition 2006"

unless of course ya'll really do provide a true competition version trial... but pretty soon it will be too late.

--Peter

"We make the worst games in the universe..."
Elite Gaming
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Posted: 4th Sep 2006 23:36
@ Peter_

Why not just buy Dark Physics then? Its an amazing piece of work. For those not able to use Newton, or other physics programs, DP does the trick. Within a few minutes, i had complete collision code for a race track, and also setup vehicle physics.

I think TGC should start to implement more of these plugins into the release of DarkBASIC Pro, instead of making us pay for all the additional plugins - theres getting alot of them. One not just buy DarkBASIC Pro, with Dark Lights, Dark Physics, Dark AI etc built in?
Peter H
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Posted: 4th Sep 2006 23:38 Edited at: 4th Sep 2006 23:40
Quote: "Why not just buy Dark Physics then?"

I'm planning on it, but i certainly won't have the money until after the competition is over.

What i would really be interested in would be a version for the GDK.

"We make the worst games in the universe..."
Diggsey
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 00:30
Will there be any more competitions like this?

There are three types of people, those that can count and those that can't.
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 01:38
diggsey, theres a competition every yr, but tbh, i dont dsee how this one can be topped. having been here since the start, the prizes alone tell me this is the biggest compo ever.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 02:45
Quote: "The link it provides goes to a download page with only a version that expires at the end of October"


Download (and install) it again. The version up there expires end of November, as promised. There was a trial version up there that we released at the same time as the BFG Promo offer, that expired end of October, but the one there now (same file name) expires with plenty of time for the competition.

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Medieval Coder
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 03:09
Wow....I still cant believe that only 3 people entered the AI compo...

Im not gonna stop working on this one!

Peter H
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 04:08 Edited at: 5th Sep 2006 04:08
@Rich- Thank you!

But i guess we're still on our own as far as vehicles and whatever else has been cut out?

"We make the worst games in the universe..."
Spambergo
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 04:42
Hi there! Has anyone been able to retrieve collision data with the demo of Dark Physics?

I have a program where objects are clearly colliding, but even with a simple check, the program reports no collision data in the stack.

Is this a removed/blocked command in the demo, or is it a problem on my end?
HowDo
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 06:27
Richard rule 10, does it mean we cannot use any media or art that comes with DBPro and Dark Physics.

Dark Physics makes any hot drink go cold.
dab
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 10:11
I tried creating a character in the trial, but it won't let me. Is there another way to control an object to collide with the other set obejcts?
Diggsey
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 11:08
@Teh Go0rfmeister
it's because I won't be able to get DP until this compo is over
(my birthday is in october)

I had the perfect idea for a physics game as well

There are three types of people, those that can count and those that can't.
Richard Davey
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 14:25
Quote: "Richard rule 10, does it mean we cannot use any media or art that comes with DBPro and Dark Physics."


That media is of course royalty free, so you are allowed to use it.

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HowDo
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 15:23
Quote: "Quote: "Richard rule 10, does it mean we cannot use any media or art that comes with DBPro and Dark Physics."

That media is of course royalty free, so you are allowed to use it."


Cheers Richard that will save alot of time... ouch! its ticking away as I type.

Dark Physics makes any hot drink go cold.
Bug Man
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 00:39
If I use the tutorial can I use the media there?
Cuz, I dont actually own Dark Physics yet....

It's not about the size of the dog in the fight, its about the fight in the dog - Dwight Eisenhower
dark coder
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 11:44
Quote: "All entries to this contest MUST use and promote AGEIA PhysX hardware; use of a PhysX card from BFG is encouraged but any AGEIA PhysX card may be used in development of entries"


To help(suck up to) this rule, coulden't we have some ageia/bfg .png logos? cause my game has a splashscreen and it would be pretty cool to add some logos.

Hallowed are the ori.
Richard Davey
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 12:12
You can get loads of BFG logos from their web site bfgtech.com (Resources section I think). Attached is a PhysX one. You are not *required* to use them, I'm just providing as requested.

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Kentaree
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 12:14
This has been kinda mentioned before and skillfully side-stepped by you Rich, but could you list exactly what does NOT work in the demo version of DarkPhysics, so I can see whether its worthwhile to enter or not?

ESP
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 12:46
Hi Kentaree/All,

I have to second this. I took some code home to work on (yes I do get paid to use this stuff) but the demo will not let one create a character controller. Does this not limit somewhat the type of demo entry? I just resorted to moving the camera and flying around (Descent clones with physics...).

Robin

P.S. the more I use this the more fun I am having
Kentaree
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 13:25
Yea, I do like DP from the brief use I've had of it, but I just can't afford to buy it at the moment. I have no problem whatsoever with TGC requiring the use of Darkphyisic for the compo, I think it's a great idea for their business!
However, if they DO release a demo which they suggest to use for the competition, I'd expect it to actually be capable of a lot more than it is, would even a time-limited version of DP for non-trial DBP not be possible? It would make sense from the viewpoint of that people who have already invested in DBP, can use it for a limited time, and enter the competition, resulting is (probably) a lot more entries and a lot more purchases of DP when people do decide they like it and can afford it

Richard Davey
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 13:28
It's not side-stepped, I just don't know. Have asked Mike to comment here.

The issue with removing stuff from the trial is more to do with piracy than anything else. We either run the risk of having less people enter a competition because they can't do what they want with the trial, or we give out the entire DLL with only a time protection that could be easily removed by any skilled hacker.

I'm not sure that the lack of entries offsets the cost of the later. DP will of course find its way onto the pirate circuit before too long, but until it does we can at least enjoy the sales it makes before the various lamers out there torrent it instead (and yes, they do sadly exist).

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 13:43
I think that the limited demo is a great way for people to start out with Dark Physics without making any kind of commitment. I think that if you are serious about the competition, you'll just buy the software.


Come see the WIP!
Kentaree
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 13:43 Edited at: 6th Sep 2006 13:44
I agree, like I said DP is a great product which you well deserve to make money from, I just think it's pointless of mentioning the trial as a possible means to enter the competition.

[Edit]: @Cash, true enough, I would buy DP to enter the competition, but I've just relocated and started a new job and financial things are still a bit shakey.

ESP
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 13:44
Hi Richard,

Is it possible to register DBPro/DP without the internet? At home I have no connection at all, so have to use the demo version. Can I not register with the actual CD for DBPro at least?

Robin

P.S. We do not seem to be told about missing commands until runtime...
Mike Johnson
TGC Developer
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 13:45
Here is a list of sections removed from the trial version:

Dynamic Meshes
Loading / Saving of Meshes
Capsules
Convex
Terrain
Character Controller
Pulley Joint
6DOF Joint
Cylindrical Joint
Distance Joint
Point In Plane Joint
Point On Line Joint
Prismatic Joint
Pulley Joint
Triggers
Vehicle
No collision feedback
Can only attach cloth to one shape, attaching to multiple shapes, detaching and vertex control removed
Cannot add forces to cloth
Certain fluid properties
Ray casting

You can still do a great deal with the trial and lots of potential with the commands included for making some impressive entries.
Kentaree
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 13:49
Quote: "You can still do a great deal with the trial and lots of potential with the commands included for making some impressive entries."


Yes, you can, but I don't think it's very probably with the amount of time allocated for the competition, as a lot of stuff has to be improvised. Thanks for the reply though Mike, looks like I wont be entering the competition, but I will definitely purchase DP in the future

ESP
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 14:04
Hi Kentaree/Mike,

I too may have to skip the comp. I have to concentrate on using the full product, and I can't compile/run on the demo any more. If I get the current app. cracked, I may be able to submit a cut down version... Still a few weeks to go.

Robin
dab
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 17:07
Well, I'm working on a back way to character controlling.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=88383&b=30

I'm working on one there. The only thing I don't have is turning yet.
Peter H
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 18:43 Edited at: 6th Sep 2006 18:44
Thanks mike for clearing that up

yeah, i would enter but like kentaree i don't have the money to buy it yet, and unfortunately my idea heavily used vehicles.

"We make the worst games in the universe..."
WarGoat
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Posted: 7th Sep 2006 00:26
What type of game can we do if we can'T control the player?


Windows XP,pentium IV, 3.0 MGZ, 1024 mb memory, 256 mb ATI Radeon PCIE X700 Pro 'sett squadron back on the assault'
Kentaree
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Posted: 7th Sep 2006 01:24
You CAN control the player, but you have to apply the forces manually, which is a bit more work

WarGoat
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Posted: 8th Sep 2006 03:58
Yeah I just tryed that, and my cube/sphere goes a bit crazy. But anyway I decided my type of game and don't use character controller.


Windows XP,pentium IV, 3.0 MGZ, 1024 mb memory, 256 mb ATI Radeon PCIE X700 Pro 'sett squadron back on the assault'
Uncle Sam
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Posted: 10th Sep 2006 04:23
I should of asked this here before I made a thread for it:

Can Dark Physics cloth be moveable, like attatch it to the back of a player to make a cape, and can you set the number of polies on the cloth? I can't figure it out.

Thanks.

Uncle Sam
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BatVink
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Posted: 11th Sep 2006 09:53
Quote: "like attatch it to the back of a player to make a cape"

Yes

Quote: "and can you set the number of polies on the cloth"

No, it's dependant onthe cloth size



Uncle Sam
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Posted: 12th Sep 2006 04:53
Hmm, thanks a lot Batvink.

I have another question about the contest itself. I've heard you must apply a force to the player (if you have one). But what if it's like for moving a piece in a puzzle game? Would you have to apply a force for that (very hard), or just use a position command? (simple, yet effective)

Uncle Sam
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HowDo
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Posted: 12th Sep 2006 06:13
Quote: "But what if it's like for moving a piece in a puzzle game? Would you have to apply a force for that (very hard), or just use a position command? (simple, yet effective)"


you would find its the opposite, how do you stop moving, bouncing around the seen.

check out code snippets.

Dark Physics makes any hot drink go cold.
Uncle Sam
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Posted: 13th Sep 2006 06:54
I'm not asking how to do it. I'm asking if it's ok with the contest guidlines.

Uncle Sam
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BatVink
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Posted: 13th Sep 2006 11:31 Edited at: 13th Sep 2006 11:35
Quote: "I'm not asking how to do it. I'm asking if it's ok with the contest guidlines"

The competition is about being as creative as you can with the Physics plugin. You can do whatever you feel necessary, just make sure you impress the judges and show off the Physics the best you can.



Uncle Sam
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Posted: 14th Sep 2006 01:28 Edited at: 14th Sep 2006 07:02
Well, I heard someone say you have to apply a force to everything, no positioning.

Uncle Sam
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BatVink
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Posted: 14th Sep 2006 10:25
OK, I think I see where the misunderstanding is coming from...

If you put a DB Pro object into the physics simulation, you can no longer use the DBP movement commands. You have to move it using Physics commands, which would generally be forces of one kind or another. However, there are also DP commands for manually moving and rotating an object. You can also make a Kinematic object which is unaffected by the physics environemnt.

That's just Dark Physics though, not just a rule of the competition.



Uncle Sam
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Posted: 14th Sep 2006 21:04
Ok, thanks a lot Batvink, just what I needed to know!

Uncle Sam
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dab
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 08:38
And you only really need to do that if you have the demo. (Like me)
Redmotion
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Posted: 15th Sep 2006 13:17
Asides from the DP demo being restricted - which I think is absurd (I own the full version so this isn't envy speaking) - I still can't get over the deadline! - October 31st? How can anything decent come out of the competition in such short a time?! I've seen competitions for ONE still image give more time. It's not like we've had DP for 6 months and have got used to it. (I expect to see nothing but a load of clones of existing games in that short a time.)

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Medieval Coder
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Posted: 16th Sep 2006 16:52
How is everyone doing?
Im going to finish up modeling the level today.

dab
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Posted: 17th Sep 2006 04:15
By the way, when DP expires would that mean that our exe's expire too?
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 17th Sep 2006 10:41
October 31st is plenty of time. That's part of the competition. Part of the Iron Chef is who can complete it in the alloted time. I've had it for 3 weeks and I know it in and out.

Quote: "By the way, when DP expires would that mean that our exe's expire too?"

No.


Come see the WIP!
Medieval Coder
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Posted: 18th Sep 2006 02:00
For the last few days I thought that the contest ended on at the end of september...but I have been fortantly mistaken.

Neptune
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Posted: 18th Sep 2006 11:48
Quote: "How is everyone doing?
Im going to finish up modeling the level today."


Mines going quite well - also just about finished level 1 too! Think i'll do a few more smaller levels but with more puzzles and physics. Still got quite a few issues to sort - one problem is that objects rotate very slowly! They bounce around and stuff fine but when they rotate (i.e. topple over) its like they are in slo-mo!

Anyway, good luck to everyone.

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