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Dark Physics & Dark A.I. & Dark Dynamix / TGC / AGEIA Dark Physics Competition 2006

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Redmotion
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Posted: 19th Sep 2006 11:23
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Quote: " I've had it for 3 weeks and I know it in and out."


Hey Cash, could you post at the "Dark physics Techniques" forum on how to do boned Rag doll meshes?

BLACKMESA:SOURCE - mod for HL2 - Texture Artist
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 21st Sep 2006 15:06
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Quote: "Hey Cash, could you post at the "Dark physics Techniques" forum on how to do boned Rag doll meshes?"

Well, I'm not posting anything about anything until after the competition, beyond help with the basics.


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Geddon00
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Posted: 26th Sep 2006 00:00
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What dark physics commands must I use? Can I just use the rigid body commands, because I read in the rules that you had to use joint and cloth commands too.

Your signature has been erased by a mod becuase it doesnt conform to 600 x 120 in size
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 12:48
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Basically, if you have a hand full of DarkPHYSICS commands in there, and it shows some cool interactive physics, you have a chance of winning some great prizes. Do not be put off by the fact we have limited the demo version, download it right now and check out the demos we have provided. This will give you an idea of the wealth of commands available, and the areas you might want to include in your submission.

To demonstrate it's not just words, I gave myself one hour to write a game using the DarkPHYSICS demo version, which I have attached here. Granted I could spend days and weeks making it multi-level, and much more fun, but I think it gives you an idea of just how accessable the competiion is, and with a fun idea you can have something knocked up and submitted in less than a week!

As the saying goes, you've got to be in it to win it. The best part is that it's free to be in it

"Small, smart, and running around the legs of dinosaurs to find enough food to survive, bedroom programmers aren't extinct after all "

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HowDo
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 14:45 Edited at: 27th Sep 2006 15:00
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Lee that look brilliant, good job you cannot enter or we be all struggiling, Plus all those bits are in the demo, off to look at how you've done the water wave and splash bits.

Cheers Jonathan.


edit

Been having a look! now I would like to know how to get the DDS plugin to work with Paintshop Pro X, as what ever I do, it not like it, and their support say they canot help, or do not have a plugin to do this.

Lee what do you use to make your DDS files in.

Dark Physics makes any hot drink go cold.
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 15:13
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HowDo - The DirectX SDK includes a tool which allows you to build DDS files from more standard image formats. The SDK is a free download, albeit a large one! and can be found on Microsofts web site.

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Kentaree
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 15:45
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Rich, I'm having problems downloading the file, it gets to around 75% before dying everytime. Also, while I know this is a "feature", I can't view the forums while downloading anything, maybe a good idea to set the max connections to 2?

Nephin Games
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 16:27
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There is no limit on the number of connections on the server (per client, or in total). But if there are any IIS6 professionals here I'd be happy to let them take a look.

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BatVink
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 18:34
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Quote: "I can't view the forums while downloading anything"


Press [SHIFT] when clicking the download button.



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Kentaree
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Posted: 28th Sep 2006 00:22
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@BatVink: Doesn't work

@Rich: There's a performance tab in the IIS configuration panel where limits are set for user connections

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BatVink
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Posted: 28th Sep 2006 12:06
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Quote: "There's a performance tab in the IIS configuration panel where limits are set for user connections"


There are no limits, I can download multiple files.



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dark coder
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Posted: 28th Sep 2006 12:39
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I have the same issue as kent, if I download a file from tgc then browsing this site is imposble, only the second the download finishes does the next page load.

Hallowed are the ori.
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Redmotion
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 13:03
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Has anyone submitted their entry yet?

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 15:25
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How soon will the prizes be delivered to the winners?


Come see the WIP!
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 15:58
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Quote: "How soon will the prizes be delivered to the winners?"


If you're a winner, prizes will be delivered once your affidavit is received, which must be within 14 days of the competition winners being announced. See here:

http://darkphysics.thegamecreators.com/competition_legal.php

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2006 16:18
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Well, my concern is the money specifically for the first place hardware winner. After the notorized affidavit of eligibility is delivered to you guys, how soon after and by what payment method will the money be delivered?

I'm dying to enter, but my wife is making me ask these questions before I commit money


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Raven
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Posted: 6th Oct 2006 07:41 Edited at: 6th Oct 2006 07:49
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Something that conserns me, is seeing that RayCasting, Triggers and Collision Zones have been dropped.

I mean if we had collision zones then creating triggers wouldn't be an issue, and if we had triggers then collision zones wouldn't be an issue either. It would've been nice to have one or the other, if I want to create an automatic door this does mean I'll have to fall-back to DarkBASIC Professionals built-in collision which isn't and exactly ideal solution given a physics engine handles this. It would make far more sense to have a single collision system that is handled by the Physics to use for the competition rather than having one for game-logic and another that is running the world itself.

I'll give an example where it would be very difficult to integrate both, especially within the time-limit.
There's a video for FPSCreator where the use picks-up a box and moves it to a point which activates a bridge to get across a gap.. without the collision zone/trigger available this simple task suddenly becomes a pain to achieve utilizing DBP's own collision system and interacting with the DarkPhysics one.

It's just something I feel provides a bit too much of a limitation.
I'd also like to see RayCasting as it is a damn quick way to provide bullet points or such in a game; or even check for a field of view of a player.

Can't say that I have either DarkLights or DarkAI, both trials I downloaded seem to crash on this system. Making my own Lightmapping and/or AI system would again rely on DBP. While this doesn't seem like an issue, I'm very conserned at speed given I've seen how much quicker DarkPhysics is at this than doing it mathematically in DBP itself (especially given the restriction of no external Physics)

As Physics is the colmination of Collision & Dynamics in a world; would it not just be simpler to put those 2 features back in to keep it as Physics rather than being basically a Dynamics engine?

Not trying to sound out of line or anything, just want to actually test DarkPhysics and not have to worry about adapting several externals systems when what I need is already built-in to the plug-in in the first place.

I mean I understand the rest of it, but not the parts that really are core functionality.

[edit] damn i knew i'd forget my question.
Can people enter a game in both the Hardware and Software catagories, or can you only enter it in one?

Unfortunately all I have with me right now is my lass' laptop which isn't exactly state-of-the-art (P4-2.5GHz, Radeon Mobility (7000), 384MB RAM) which many of the DarkPhysics demos don't exactly wizz along on. Mostly graphics based slow-downs though.

So like most people I can't physically test my app on a PPU Hardware system. While I could add support for Hardware stuff, there's no way I'd be able to guarentee it wouldn't kill the system at the other end. Although that chart in the help did give me a good idea of what to expect it can handle physics wise.
I mean my computer which is boxed up and waiting to join me also doesn't have one but atleast it has the power behind it to be able to gauge that the cpu wouldn't be so free from the graphics difference as to affect what is possible from the physics; meaning the hardware would wizz-by no matter what was put on it.

Hope you get what I mean.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 6th Oct 2006 09:30
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Raven, you don't need trigger zones or DBP collision to automatically open doors. You can create custom trigger zones that are based on radial distance. Using collision to do it doesn't even make sense.

Dark Physics raycasting isn't appropriate for bullet checks, as it can only check a physics body.

If you are worried about limitations, you should just buy the plugin. You still have the basic set of commands without it, and the possibilities with that are astounding. In any event, these plugins aren't expensive, and will serve you far beyond this competition.


Come see the WIP!
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Raven
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Posted: 6th Oct 2006 21:08 Edited at: 6th Oct 2006 22:00
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I'm not to worried about the limitations for the competition.
This is just more down to the decisions to drop features that I feel is Core functionality.

Sure it's possible to get around the limitations, but it would mean essentially a quick-hack in order to provide the same functionality. In my experience this can cause issues, particularly as whatever you do in DBP will not always be perfectly sync with an external DLL; and it's not ideal forcing the physics to slow down just so that there aren't issues.

I will probably purchase DarkPhysics sometime over the next month or so (other bills come first and this is just a hobby for me, so not exactly on the priority list) ... still this is more about the competition.

It's likely that some of the limitations have put off some users who'd like to join in this competition, or atleast that's what I can tell from the responses in this thread so-far.

I'm going to keep working on my little project for this, so don't think my post above is anything to do with me feeling that it's not a good enough product to achieve some cool things. Been playing around with the trial and it's pretty awesome, the Ageia PhysX engine is damn good and very easy to get used to. There is still a huge amount of features still in the demo allowing some quite amazing things. Just some limitations do have me worrying a bit more about time though.

Just how I feel, I suppose.

Oh something else I'm wondering is, what would technically make a game qualify for the Hardware category? I've been looking at the videos on the Ageia site, and trying to see what would really be a good mark. It's not likely anyone will be able to come up with anything as complex as Cellfactor, but other things do look like it'd be interesting to do.

[edit]
Do you have to support Keyboard/Mouse controls, or can I use the XBOX360 Controller for Windows exclusively?
I've been developing with this control method for months now, and I would prefer not to provide support for both; as I'll be using it for testing as it's far easier for me rather than using the notebook keyboard and touchpad. So it'll end up being a fairly untested control method.

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Chenak
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Posted: 9th Oct 2006 01:22
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The rules state that you must use keyboard/mouse controls but you can add controller options if you want.

If you want to confirm that the physics works brilliantly on the PPU you will have to buy one. They want as many people as possible to buy their hardware, competitions with big prizes that cannot be won without the hardware is bound to be a plus.

If you don't have the plugin or the hardware then you pretty much can't enter the hardware compo, the software compo should be easy enough, if you win that then you can enter the hardware compo too
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Raven
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Posted: 9th Oct 2006 02:45
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I wish I had the funds to spend on the plug-in and PPU, but unfortunately they don't stretch that far right now.
Especially with christmas comming up.

What does the demo limit impose that wouldn't make entering the hardware competition possible?

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BatVink
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Posted: 9th Oct 2006 10:07
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Quote: "What does the demo limit impose that wouldn't make entering the hardware competition possible?"


You could defintely add more of everything - particles, objects etc, for bigger effects. I'm not sure whether fluids are removed from the demo though, which seems to be the biggest selling point of the hardware.



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Richard Davey
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Posted: 9th Oct 2006 12:43
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I'd say that the sheer raw grunt power of calculations is the selling point of the hardware, not just the fluids. To that end, you can enter the hardware compo with the demo version we released easily. Mike already posted a list of what is and isn't included elsewhere here.

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Raven
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Posted: 9th Oct 2006 19:20
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Yeah I've seen the list, just wondering what would be classed as Hardware / Software specific.

I mean it seems like a bit of a cheat just to up the particle/fluid/objects count simply for the hardware. Is there anything that is flat out impossible without hardware?

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BatVink
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Posted: 9th Oct 2006 19:26
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Quote: "Is there anything that is flat out impossible without hardware?"


fluids (not to be mistaken with Buoyancy)



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Redmotion
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Posted: 9th Oct 2006 21:18
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A couple of questions:

1. I want to submit my game as a demo and then continue to develop it afterwards to a complete game, retaining full rights to do with it what I please - can i do this - or will Ageia own my a**?!

2. I'm using some textures generated using the texture maker demo in FREE mode, to save time - it's says i can use the textures, but not commercially - is it ok to use them in the compo entry? I'm assuming it is.

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Mika
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Posted: 9th Oct 2006 22:39 Edited at: 9th Oct 2006 22:39
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Hi,

For TGC Team Members,

I have made a submission last night, but I did not yet receive any confirmation of submission as it is stated in the competition rules ...

How to be sure that my contribution has been well received ?

Best regards

Michel
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 01:57
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Quote: "1. I want to submit my game as a demo and then continue to develop it afterwards to a complete game, retaining full rights to do with it what I please - can i do this - or will Ageia own my a**?!"


This is perfectly allowed. The version you submit for the compo will be ours to release (for free) as we see fit, but any variation on it you could sell if you want.

Quote: "2. I'm using some textures generated using the texture maker demo in FREE mode, to save time - it's says i can use the textures, but not commercially - is it ok to use them in the compo entry? I'm assuming it is."


Yes this is fine, just not when you go commercial.

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solid snake21
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 23:31
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Well...i just finished the Rigid Bodies Section and particle section of Dark Physics and apart from that i have read the DBPro for Beginners....the thing is that i just have 5 days to go...what can i do in this time, should i just make a little physX show case???Couldnt get much time due to my Computer Science Degree..
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Joe Cooning
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Posted: 11th Oct 2006 05:36
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I made another post, but no response. How can I delete a cloth object?

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Redmotion
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Posted: 12th Oct 2006 01:28 Edited at: 12th Oct 2006 17:02
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Does the hardware automatically work with dark physics or do we have to code it into the software at the start?

EDIT: I think the answer to this question is: you have to code it.

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Hoozer
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Posted: 12th Oct 2006 17:44
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Hello everyone,

as I have reached the point in my game where I wanted to implement the particle-system in it, I found out that things like "PHY SET EMITTER START COLOR" has no effect (some other commands: PHY SET EMITTER FADE, PHY SET EMITTER RATE also does not work, maybe more which I have not tested yet)! My particles always start with the END COLOR and are full visible untill they die!

My question: Are these things also removed from the DLL? (They were not mentioned in the list!)

If they are in, what is wrong with my code (here: the example code from the particle-demo, modified for the color-change)?



Thanks for any answer that helps to clear this!

Hoozer
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Redmotion
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Posted: 13th Oct 2006 11:57
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Sorry for being pedantic but...

It says the deadline is 15th October 2006 for the Software compo - but what time on the 15th- the end of the 15th? (- 11:59pm GMT?) The beginning? (14th October 2006 - 11:59pm?)

I don't want to post my entry 5 minutes after the deadline!

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Medieval Coder
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Posted: 13th Oct 2006 13:14
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Why not enter it early?

Hoozer those commands DO work. Just make sure your using it correctly.

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Hoozer
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Posted: 13th Oct 2006 13:57 Edited at: 13th Oct 2006 14:04
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@ Medieval Coder:

OK, you are right! (But Fade ONLY works when end-color = black is used, else it has no effect!)
In the help-file downloadable for the Dark-PhysiBro-Demo it was done this way (modded it a bit: added Fade; changed End-Color, Cam-Pos, Texture):




I hope that helps others (I wasted some time to find out)!

Hoozer
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Redmotion
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Posted: 13th Oct 2006 14:26
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Quote: "Why not enter it early?"


Why not just answer the question.

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BatVink
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Posted: 13th Oct 2006 15:07
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In the past, deadlines have been "flexible. But in the past the Rules weren't so officious.



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Raven
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Posted: 14th Oct 2006 05:57
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If there aren't many enteries to each competition, I wouldn't doubt the deadlines get extended by a day or so... but don't expect much flexibility.

There's nothing to say you can't create a viable game in the time that's left. I mean you still have a month for the Hardware section. It has bigger prizes too.

Personally I'm still waiting for an answer about being able to enter a game into both sections; provided the support is there.
I mean I could make 2 versions one for each but again, would that be against the rules.

Given we only have 48hours left, would be nice for a fairly speedy answer ^_^

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Hoozer
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Posted: 14th Oct 2006 11:02
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Besides the deadline exact time (like "Redmotion" said:
Quote: "
It says the deadline is 15th October 2006 for the Software compo - but what time on the 15th- the end of the 15th? (- 11:59pm GMT?) The beginning? (14th October 2006 - 11:59pm?)
"
)

I wonder, what timezone is the reference for it?


I hope someone of the MODs can answer us this!

Hoozer
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Neptune
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Posted: 14th Oct 2006 12:09
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Raven: Does this clarify things?

Quote from official rules:
Quote: "Entrants may submit multiple entries, but may only win one of the top four prizes within the Software PhysX Contest, regardless of number of entries submitted.
Entrants may submit entries to both the Hardware PhysX Contest and the Software PhysX Contest, but may only win one prize total for entries submitted into both contests. Entrants are encouraged to enter the Hardware PhysX Contest if selecting one or the other contest. "
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BatVink
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Posted: 14th Oct 2006 12:10
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Raven, the rules say that one game can only win one prize...

Quote: "Entrants may submit entries to both the Hardware PhysX Contest and the Software PhysX Contest, but may only win one prize total for entries submitted into both contests. Entrants are encouraged to enter the Hardware PhysX Contest if selecting one or the other contest. "




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Raven
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Posted: 15th Oct 2006 08:47
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alright, sod it i'll only enter the Hardware one.
gives me another month to polish and add content anyway.

Hope enough people have entered the software one, it's a shame the entrants thing hasn't updated yet. Would be cool to see who's doing what.

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Chris K
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Posted: 15th Oct 2006 17:00
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I have a hunch that Raven's game won't make it to the competition.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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Raven
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Posted: 15th Oct 2006 17:06
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Let's see if you're hunch is right
Don't really have much else to do with my days right now.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 16th Oct 2006 10:20
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Quote: "I have a hunch that Raven's game won't make it to the competition."




Come see the WIP!
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Dark Developer
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Posted: 17th Oct 2006 19:44
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Hi!

If I use a free texture pack (that has not been written by me), can I apply for the compo?
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Raven
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Posted: 18th Oct 2006 05:29
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as long as it's license free, yes. as in you don't have to pay royalties or such to use it.

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Agent Dink
20
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Joined: 30th Mar 2004
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Posted: 18th Oct 2006 08:02
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Heh, has anyone entered the software compo? I might as well enter my half done project since no one else has entered yet (according to the compo page)... I'd win hands down...

Sometimes the only way over a wall is to pile up enough bodies to climb over - Dave W.
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Raven
19
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Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 18th Oct 2006 08:47
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That'd be awesome, ya know if the software comp was still running

Intel Pentium-D 2.8GHz, 512MB DDR2 433, Ati Radeon X1600 Pro 256MB PCI-E, Windows Vista RC1 / XP Professional SP2
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BatVink
Moderator
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 18th Oct 2006 11:08 Edited at: 18th Oct 2006 11:08
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There are 3 known entries, but possibly more unknown ones. 5 or 6 people claimed they were entering and had work in progress.



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