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Geek Culture / WHY DID YOU DESIGN THIS LIKE VBASIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Wraith Glade
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Posted: 4th May 2003 06:22
Are you all completly out of your minds? I can't even believe that anyone would ever, EVER want to make another BASIC language! I thought that that was just a joke making fun of Microsoft. I have yet to see a real use for ever using VB; its unorganized, teaches you bad habits, and is generally bad! I felt very disappointed when i started up DarkBASIC and immediatly recongnized a similarity to VB. You actually want people to pay for a buffed up VB? Now that's the part that made me give up, get into a feeble possition, put straw in my hair, and go completly barking mad. (to borrow a word or two from Douglas Adams) Anyway, I just want someone to give me a rational explanation for all this. Anyone???
Hockey07
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Posted: 4th May 2003 06:29
Um, DarkBASIC is way different that VB. It one, actually uses the english language and two, is way easier (and different as i said)...

dont be mean to DB!

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APEXnow
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Posted: 4th May 2003 06:35
I'm not even gonna bother getting into this debate!!

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
CloseToPerfect
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Posted: 4th May 2003 07:32
well it is call dark BASIC not dark C++ or dark PASCAL or.......
what did you really expect.

CTP

rapscaLLion
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Posted: 4th May 2003 08:03
Ok... you're either very serious or incredibly simple minded...

DarkBASIC is your first hint... I have no clue as to why you would think it a joke. Second, it is designed with BASIC in mind so as to fullfill the goal for this program: To enable QUICK and EASY game production. You can certainly do more than that, but that's what it was designed to do. OOP is great, but hard for a non-programmer to understand. Now that's rational, you unfortunately are not. Before you start tearing it apart, try using it, try making something with it, and stop bad-mouthing something you know nothing about Mr. Expert Programmer.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th May 2003 08:42
Sorry but apart from a few keywords being similar there isn't really much more similarity between DarkBasic and VisualBasic...

for one most of the commands you can use in VisualBasic mean different things in DarkBasic (which peeve'd off my bro when he first started using it cause he was used to App Design in VB)
second the actual structure of VisualBasic is quite frankly Object Orientated Programming gone mad!

VB has a basic front, but at the end of the day it is completely reliant upon COM objects to do anything much ... the whole language is a complete nightmare for creating games. However for applications it is specifically setup to be able to access the areas of Windows and Database in a way that makes it a very good and powerful tool.

however i can't see how you'd either mistake the IDE for benig VB or how after looking at some of the code you think it is remotely like VB... if it is so close then i'd love to know how i can't figure out howto use VB (nor do i want to) but i can use DB quite easily?

if you're going to compare DB to anything i'd have to say Pascal, infact the whole structure and such is very close to Pascal & C

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 4th May 2003 13:29
Lol!! Man that guy is crazy, I have nothing to say since everyone else has said it for me.

Why the hell'd you ask me for crying out loud!?!

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Solidz Snake
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Posted: 4th May 2003 13:46
my guess is that his info is just obselete..
maybe his mate just told him yesterday,
"hey, do u know there is a DarkBASIC?"
LOL!

hmm.. should we tell him that there is a Dark, and a BASIC, and a PRO?

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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 4th May 2003 13:47
WraithGlade :

Please provide a link to your game programming masterpiece programmed in your chosen language so we can see how things should be done

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APEXnow
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Posted: 4th May 2003 14:02
... And if you feel you can provide games in Visual Basic, why don't you get yourself a copy of TrueVision 3D SDK , jeez, some people are neven satisfied with the tools they've got!!

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
David T
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Posted: 4th May 2003 14:40 Edited at: 4th May 2003 14:44
1. DarkBASIC is procedural, not object orientated like VB.
2. The only similarities to VB and in the form of standard basic structures, such as:

IF condition THEN action
IF condition THEN
action
END IF

These are to be found in many basic languages.

3. It's is Visual Basic or VB I've never heard it called VBasic before


Quote: "
how i can't figure out howto use VB (nor do i want to) but i can use DB quite easily?"


For me it was the opposite! I couldn't figure out VB or DB until I got taught pascal, it all fell into place

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MikeS
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Posted: 4th May 2003 17:45
WraithGlade you've been here for like 2 days.You probebly havn't even tried to make any type of program with Dark Basic.You really have no room to speak.

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Yarbles
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Posted: 4th May 2003 17:51
Sigh!

Another person who obviously knows nothing about Visual Basic, slagging VB and Microsoft. How original.

And of course he used the classic "teaches you bad habits" argument which I have yet hear anyone actually back up with fact. So please, WraithGlade, explain to me how VB teaches you bad habits???

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Witch Bomber
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Posted: 4th May 2003 18:05
Even the if command is different from VB
VB: If condition then
command
End If

DB: If condition then command

or

If condition
command
Endif

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APEXnow
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Posted: 4th May 2003 18:47
It's a pretty narrow minded view debating the good and evil side of VB, but at the end of the day, If dubree up the top there can't explain the reasons for the Binary Compatability settings under VB and what they're used for, I ain't gunna entertain his notions <GGGrr>


"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th May 2003 19:18
the if command is identical no matter what language really
if fact only C is different in its variation of IF

being
if([condition])
{
[command];
}

or
if([condition])
[command];

even so it doesn't work any differently, it is just a different layout ... so explain how else DB is the same as VB, i mean unless i missed when it was upgraded with OOL and a Visual IDE, oh and the use of COM objects, as well as APi's

i mean unless i've missed a major patch for either DB or DBpro then they don't have these abilities and the general programming of the language is actually quite different.
but please do explain to everyone HOW exactly they're the same

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Dazzag
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Posted: 4th May 2003 19:21
Hoho. DB is a buffed up VB???? Ok. Right. I have DB (since 1.04) and DBP, and I have VB6 Enterprise (from work, and have used a version of VB since VB for DOS around 10 years ago). So no. And DB is only similar to VB in that the syntax is similar. Otherwise no again. Much like saying C++ is like the english language because it has an IF in it. More like DB is a buffed up version of STOS or AMOS, as this is how it has always seemed to me.

It's crap like this that took me away from this forum in the first place.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
APEXnow
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Posted: 4th May 2003 19:24 Edited at: 4th May 2003 19:24
Dazzag, but you're here to stay though right?? Right?? <ggg>

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
Dazzag
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Posted: 4th May 2003 19:32
Heh, depends. Been a long time since I DBed. And it hasn't been the same since 4Rum died, and people like Postmon left. These days I'm pretty much just browsing, plus doing things with VB and the GBA (check out www.dragonbasic.com, tis the other 'DB' that seems more interesting to me these days).

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
APEXnow
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Posted: 4th May 2003 19:38
Have to admit, the GBA is a nice piece of kit. Remember the Atari Lynx? That was something else too!

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
rapscaLLion
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Posted: 4th May 2003 21:09
and... we scared him away...

Alex Wanuch
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Jonny_S
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Posted: 4th May 2003 21:16
HEHEHE this post reminds me of VB I miss it, my dad took it off me

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APEXnow
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Posted: 4th May 2003 21:17
What? VB guru at the top? LOL

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
Dazzag
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Posted: 5th May 2003 02:57
Phew. Internet connection back. Yay.

Anyhows, yeah, the GBA SP is esp. nice. Is well cool with the back light.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
APEXnow
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Posted: 5th May 2003 03:04
Doh!! aint available in retail here yet, unless ordered... What I mean is I've not seen the backlight version in any of our stores yet, but the backlight feature sounds ahellov alot better than that horrible magnifier light thing. God I hated that!

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
Dazzag
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Posted: 5th May 2003 03:11
Aren't you in the UK? I found all the big stores were out of stock. But Virtual Games had loads. Got mine a couple of weeks ago at least, and I never pre-ordered. Nice black one. Very cool.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
APEXnow
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Posted: 5th May 2003 03:15
Now I am jealous lol. I've still got my original one but I just hate the non lit TFT screen. Would be nice if I could upgrade it for a small fee, know what I mean

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
Dazzag
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Posted: 5th May 2003 03:17
Mmm. Would be good. But it came with a £30 off voucher for GC. If only Argos still did the GC for £80 then would only cost £50. Cheaper than the old GBA!!! Which is now £60.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
APEXnow
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Posted: 5th May 2003 03:22
Crazy aint it. It's always the same, you go out and buy the best, latest, top notch model for £115 and next thing you know, they're offering it for half. Jeez!! <slaps forehead>

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
Dazzag
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Posted: 5th May 2003 03:35
Yep. N64 plus Turok and Mario 64 for something like £420 if I remember rightly on the day of release. PS2 plus 2 games for around £350 on the day after release. Damn damn damn. But get the GBA SP as it won't get much cheaper and it's really good.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
APEXnow
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Posted: 5th May 2003 03:43
Tanx for the info Dazzag, I'll certainly look out for it. I said from the beginning, why the hell didn't Nintendo put the backlight into it in the first place. I mean, not exactly sunny in the UK is it?

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
APEXnow
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Posted: 5th May 2003 03:44
... and even Sega and Atari had the sence to do it!

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
Dazzag
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Posted: 5th May 2003 03:47
Yeah. Was annoying. My GBA looks daft with all the extra stuff on it. Totally gimp like compared with the SP.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 5th May 2003 08:47
"N64 plus Turok and Mario 64 for something like £420"

Too right I paid full price My wifes buying me an SP 4 my B'day tho so price don't matter

"and even Sega and Atari had the sence to do it!"

lol yup. But only Nintendo has had the sense to let you turn the light on or off, and devleop a decent battery life

"WHY DID YOU DESIGN THIS LIKE VBASIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

*Ahem* I've been trying to avoid replying to this to avoid profanity

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indi
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Posted: 5th May 2003 10:09
haha i tried to delete it but it appears to have returned.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th May 2003 10:20
hehee... you must've angered the forums spirits indi

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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indi
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Posted: 5th May 2003 10:42
Van B
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Posted: 5th May 2003 12:35
Hehe, anyone ever tried making a game in VB? - it's just not cut out for it. It's basically just a load of OCX's and .DLL's in a basic wrapper, I'm not sure it teaches you bad habbits, I use it all the time and my VB code is far far neater than my DB code, if anything it forces you to take care. For example, you can't leave lines of code with syntax errors then come back to them, it's like an instant debugger when you need it least. I'm not a fan of the VB community though, for a laugh, go onto a VB forum and tell them you always switch Option Explicit off - you can almost hear the soap boxes being dragged into position .

Now, if M$ follow a similar track to Sony, they might release a BASIC for the X-Box, perhaps a net yaroze style hook-up using the LAN cable. If this happens, I seriously hope they forget about VB and start from scratch with something like DB. Of course if DBS could get there first with an X-Box add-on for DBPro, they'd be minted.

The new game boy certainly does look pretty cool - I hated the GBA design, gave me hand cramps after about 10 minutes of Doom, plus a headache from squinting at a barely lit screen - now it looks like a travel alarm clock! - cool!, you can pretend it's the worlds smallest laptop.


Van-B
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th May 2003 12:48
what the heck is an "Option Explicit" when its at home?
personally i don't like the SP, that give me hand cramps - its too blasted small. I like the design of the GBA, fits very nicely in the hands

and i agree, DBpro should get an XBox upgrade

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Van B
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Posted: 5th May 2003 12:55
Option Explicit means you have to declare every variable in the code before using it. Means faster code because you can set the memory limits at the start, but it's a pain. I always turn it off because I tend not to plan my code, just go ahead and make it up as I go along. I made the mistake of telling someone to turn it off while debugging his code on a VB forum, and got flamed for it!.


Van-B
Dazzag
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Posted: 5th May 2003 14:31
Yeah, I used VB for years before I realised what that did. And I don't use it. If you can't remember what variables you used then you shouldn't bother. And it feels too much like other languages. Annoying in other words.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
APEXnow
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Posted: 5th May 2003 14:56 Edited at: 5th May 2003 14:56
Personally, I keep it switched on, I mean, ever tried using a variable in C/C++ that wasn't declared. It's just good coding style. Hell if I was trying to decipher some code and all of a sudden a variable pops up from no where, wha... heh... errr... Jeez I need a drink!! LOL

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 5th May 2003 15:24
The book I read to learn VB told me to always leave Option Explicit turned on so I always have. The guy who started this topic obviously doesn't realise that Basic is a language that has been around for years, and to change everything would just confuse most people. I like both DB and VB. I use DB for games, and VB for Apps.
Rob K
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Posted: 5th May 2003 17:29
@WraithGlade

DBP is aimed at beginners / intermediates, the C language is much harder to understand for newbies but BASIC can be picked up in just a few days even if you have never programmed before.

By language of preference is Pascal, it is clearer and less obfuscated than C, but still pretty strict at the same time. But even that would be confusing for beginners IMO, for example, they might get confused about why:

a := b;

is correct, but

if a:=b then

is incorrect (should be if a=b).

BASIC languages do not teach people bad habits, but they can get into bad habits by being lazy. I have seen some very neat, well-written BASIC, and some very shoddy, lazy C code. (and vice-versa as well of course).

Current Project: TANK MELÉE [Artwork]

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Rob K
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Posted: 5th May 2003 17:30
As for DB being a buffed up VB, it includes an entire 3D engine, which would normally cost £100+ as a set of libraries for C++. Plus DBP produces faster, more effecient code than VB which is quick'n easy, but also slow as hell.

Current Project: TANK MELÉE [Artwork]

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APEXnow
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Posted: 5th May 2003 17:42
It's funny but since WraithGlade's first post, he hasn't returned at all!

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Solidz Snake
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Posted: 5th May 2003 18:42
ya'all think he's a yellow-belly chicken? hope not ..
.. or is he?

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W0LF
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Posted: 5th May 2003 19:02
Actually, I think VB is well sorted for making games. Check out the Truevision3D engine. I am giving that a serious try before I buy DBpro. It seems just as fast with even more features. It is always smart to check out what else is out there before you spend more money

WOLF

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Rob K
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Posted: 5th May 2003 19:08
"Actually, I think VB is well sorted for making games"

Except it IS slow. TrueVision3D uses DLLs doesn't it? - Which are written in C.

Current Project: TANK MELÉE [Artwork]

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_101.zip
Van B
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Posted: 5th May 2003 19:20
TV3D is basically a wrapper for the DX8.0 SDK, just simplified syntax and easier to use. The full source to TV is available for free, might actually be real handy for all those C++ .dll programming dudes.


Van-B

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