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Game Design Theory / Souls of Aemos Divided Tests - WIP

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jasonhtml
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 03:01 Edited at: 24th Nov 2007 21:25
First, let me explain why this isn't in the WIP section: Souls of Aemos (formerly Deathquest) is not by any means ready for a WIP post in the WIP section(even though i said i was going to post one) because this is more of a series of tests that will eventually be compiled into the final product. So, I decided this was more of a design concept because I will be discussing a lot of design factors for the game. But, if the mods think otherwise, move it i guess.

Major Edit:
I updated the first post to make it look more interesting and to show my latest work so that new viewers don't have to go and read through the entire thread. The progress of each test is put into its own section below:

= One of the Tests
= Complete
= In Progress
= Not started
= Buggy, Could possibly be overwritten in the future

Interaction/Combat Test: (Includes: First-Person Combat, Spell Casting, Day and Night Cycle, Cloud Physics, and the GUI)
Inventory sorting and item bags
Item mixing
Loot from creatures and places
Clouds Physics that react to weather controlling spells
Day and Night Cycle
Inverse Kinematic Arm Motions
Wearing Equipment/Customizable Equipment
Advanced Creature Combat (for basic, see the Faction Test)



Environment Test: (Includes: All trees and foliage)
Advanced Terrain with Plant Maps for fast plant placement
LOD Objects (very fast!)



Construction Test: (Includes: Buildings, Building Editor, Physics, and Tunnel Digging)
Support for any number of buildings
Building Editing with 7 different materials
Saving and loading buildings
Collision and Gravity (almost done, just need to account for the head hitting the ceiling )
Replacment and position/angle changing of materials already placed
Tunnel Digging; I started this a while ago, but had major collision and visual problems



Faction Test: (Includes: Factions(or teams) and flags(the control point of a fort))
Support for any number of factions
Support for up to 4000 citizens total(this is the most tested so far, but it could be more with optimization)
Basic AI for attacking, capturing forts, and fleeing
Support for allied factions



Alpha Test: (Includes: Online Client-Server communication and file distribution, Chat)
Movement
Chat
Different chat types with text colors
Lag (some issues here and there)
Zoning
Server support for all of the other tests above (This will take a loooong time)

Things unaccounted for:
Animation support for various things
Music (My friend and I are writting up songs. I'm also going to try and get them recorded with selected musicians at my school.)
Sound Effects
Some other stuff...


And this was where I had started a long time ago:

Anyway, the first test program i've come up with so far is the combat system for Souls of Aemos. its very different from other games in the fact that you dont just click a button to attack. instead, the mouse is used to swing/stab with the sword(no other weapons yet).

Controls:
WASD - forward,backward,turning
move mouse - aim swing
scroll - forward to slash; backward to ready another swing

how it works is: you start with your sword ready for a swing, but it is oriented to the right of your body. to swing, first move your mouse to one side of the screen(left side looks best currently). then, move your cursor across the screen and scroll forward at the same time. it takes some getting used to. and if you would rather stab than swing, just scroll forward and aim.

download: http://files.filefront.com/Aemos_Testsexe/;6839999;;/fileinfo.html

and pic:
Image Removed to make the page loading time better...

i would greatly appreciate any feedback. especially criticizism, because i know its not the easiest system to use

and for what i have in mind for the next version of the combat system:
-twisting the sword with the right mouse button after you have stabbed someone
-a left arm for a shield/dual wield (controlled by other means than a mouse, and ill explain it later)

Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 03:45
Sounds interesting in theory, but I'll be curious to see it in practice .


jasonhtml
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 06:47
well then download it

Moondog
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 16:36
can you make it widescreen compatible? if you do, i can download and test, otherwise, my computer will just spit it out, lol.

MOONDOG


current projects: Mystic Dream // red // battle room
The admiral
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 21:47
Great concept im doing a similar thing in my engine with combat so id love to speak with you and share advice.

The admiral
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 21:50
Ok i played the demo and its a good start but there was no way to stab or swing from the sides it was very much an up and down type movement very rigid.

The admiral
Data
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2007 05:09 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2007 05:15
hey looks really good there

just a question, was this combat system the one a suggested in one of the threads around here? (Just wondering, I don't mean to take any credit or anything, just asking)

www.urbn-tremor.net
jasonhtml
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2007 16:24
@moondog: uh.... i dont know how to make it widescreen compatible, lol

@admiral: ok, im on AIM and MSN every once in a while
and, you can stab, just scroll forward without swinging. it looks kinda like a swing because of the way the arm bends to get the sword out in front of the player. i also forgot to mention that the sword will only register as a hit if the crosshairs on the sword turn red. red means that the sword was swung/stabbed at a good enough distance away from the player.

@data: funny that you mention that, because i actually designed this system a while before that post was made.

Silvester
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2007 16:29
Can't download it..tells me there are no download server's available.

Data
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2007 16:45
I was thinking a lot over this and came up with some ideas for your game perhaps you'll like them.

a)Make a feature that records the players gameplay or at least important parts of it.Then allow the player to access this video whenever they like. This would give the player a 'memory'. As far as I know, other games allow you to record gameplay but the recorded video isn't actually used in the game. In my idea, the player's memory could perhaps be used in quests/missions or if you are really ambitious perhpas the player could travel back in time using his memory and revisit places he has already seen before.

b)For the combat system, I like the way everythign works right now except for one problem, most games nowadays have some special sword moves or stuff liek that; but I was thinking, what if the palyer was allowed to go into some training place or somethign like that and he could come up with his own sword combination (ex. slash right, stab low, and then slash at the head etc.) then the palyer could save these sword combinations and use them whenever he wanted to. This would be really unqiue because everyone could use attacks using their swords with the mouse but they could also presave combinations they have done before and redo them using some sort of shortcut keys (ex. 1,2,3). Perhpas they could only save a few of these combinations and they could only be used when the player's energy is full or somethign like that.


Hope that helps.

Cheers
Data

www.urbn-tremor.net
jasonhtml
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2007 20:31 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2007 21:05
@prince of darkness: thats odd... i just tried it and it didn't work for me either. im wondering if there is a problem with filefront servers lately? ill check back to it in a bit and see if it works.

EDIT: ya, i looked on their forums and people seem to be having the same problem... what other sites are good for hosting files?

@data:
i like your first idea! thats pretty cool. except, i dont really want the player to have video memory because it would take up too much space. but i was thinking how about just a log book where the person could right anything they wanted in it so that they dont forget important things. maybe they could just save important screenshots and draw pictures into the logbook too?

as for the second idea: way ahead of you. ive thought of this, but i wasnt planning on saying anything until i got more stuff done. we are definately thinking on the same track here. but, i havent finished designing it. how should i do it exactly? should i make it simple and just make waypoints as the person makes their combat moves, or should it be more complex than that? does it really need to be anymore complex than just waypoints?

Silvester
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2007 21:24
I useualy use my own site for file hosting...

But it seems you dont have one

jasonhtml
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2007 21:54
well, ive been planning on getting a site of my own, but i havent finished making it yet, so there is no sense in getting the hosting until im done.

i guess we'll just have to wait and see if the problem lets up soon.

Silvester
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2007 21:55
Yep,

as i realy want to test everything that has to do with an RPG

Data
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2007 23:24
back to the sword idea, I think waypoints would do it, but perhpas you could also allow the player to have movements included in the attack, for example the player could jump and swing at the same time etc.


The log book idea sounds neat too.




www.urbn-tremor.net
jasonhtml
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Posted: 4th Mar 2007 00:45
@prince of darkness: the download seems to be working now. try it out.

@data: ok, waypoints it is then. and movements are a good idea and a bad idea because if the person wants to move differently each time the use the move, they dont want to lunge forward every time or something. maybe i should have it so that the player can choose whether or not to have a certain move contain the player's movement?

Silvester
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Posted: 4th Mar 2007 09:09
Tried it and got used to in it 10 seconds,its a fairly cool system all i found that when completely extended arm there are 2 crosshairs...

jasonhtml
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Posted: 4th Mar 2007 16:08 Edited at: 4th Mar 2007 16:09
ya, i completely forgot to explain the crosshairs. basically, its to help you so that you can swing properly. when the sword's crosshair is green, it is too close to your body to do damage. when it turns red for the first time in a swing, a copy of the crosshair is pasted on that part of the screen. the system isnt completed yet, but when it is finished, once you finish a swing, it will only do damage from the first crosshair to the end of the swing. that way, players can do more complicated swings in the midst of a battle so that they dont hurt their friends.

and its nice to hear that you find it easy to use

Silvester
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Posted: 4th Mar 2007 17:21
Ah i see about the crosshair now.

I realy like this sytem.it gets you into the combat instead of you just watching some dudes slash eachother and drink some potions.

Data
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Posted: 4th Mar 2007 18:21
exactly, I think the ombat system is really unique, as jasonhtml, can you maybe expalin a bit more about this game? As in what the plans for it are? Because I think it has a lot of potential.

www.urbn-tremor.net
jasonhtml
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Posted: 5th Mar 2007 04:04
well, the plans will come with time, because if i released it all now, i wouldnt have anything to release later except the actual tests, and then the game. but, basically, the game is more immersive, and since it is an MMORPG, im trying to make it so that each player has more of a role (hence role playing). most MMOs today just have people with characters running around killing things and that isnt role playing. my game has the players change everything. for example, a player can own a piece of land, if its big and has a wall and gate, he can hire an NPC to guard it and force travelers to pay a small fee to pass. of course, there are restrictions on how much land you can own, but it gives players more of a purpose.

thats all ill give for now.

Wiggett
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Posted: 5th Mar 2007 05:05
not a bad piece of work, took me a minute to realize i had to mousewheel to extend the arm it's a bit different to the sword swinging code thats been fiddled with on her in the past. Actuall works kinda well.

Syndicate remastered: Corporate persuasion through urban violence.
tha_rami
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Posted: 5th Mar 2007 22:02
Only critique:

Aim, scroll forward back forward back forward back... Quick battle?

Cool idea and system!

tha_rami - the best way to predict the future is to invent it
jasonhtml
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Posted: 6th Mar 2007 15:14
heh, i already made a fix for that some what. (it still needs a little tweaking though) basically, the farther back you scroll, the more "power" you get for the next swing. so a small scroll back will result in very little power. it has a little too much power in this test and im going to lower it for the next one

Data
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Posted: 6th Mar 2007 23:58
just a question, are you doing this all on your own?

www.urbn-tremor.net
jasonhtml
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Posted: 7th Mar 2007 00:34
not 100%, but ya, pretty much. i have a friend of mine who designed most of my site(which isnt up yet) and my other friends give me a lot of ideas/input. but its just me for programming and media

Crazy Ninja
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Posted: 7th Mar 2007 14:24
felt a little jerky to me with my scroll wheel. Interesting though and a good idea!

The admiral
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Posted: 7th Mar 2007 22:07
Yeah is it possible to hold the mouse button to extend the arm??

The admiral
jasonhtml
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Posted: 8th Mar 2007 03:23
@the crazy ninja: ya, ive been looking at ways to try and make it smoother. but no luck yet.

@the admiral: it is possible yes... ill start looking into alternate combos for controlling the combat so that it is easy for everyone.

Shadow heart
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Posted: 11th Mar 2007 06:34
looks nice, the combat system maybe hard when some one has a slow computer lol. Otherwise it looks nice, now about the second test.......

Graphics Outlet, an outlet for Graphics

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Data
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 23:38
any updates on this project?

www.urbn-tremor.net
jasonhtml
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Posted: 17th Mar 2007 04:23
ya, ive been working on it quite abit. its just im finished installing Vista on my new pc and transfering files and the like. ill try to get it up after i fix a bug that has to do with controlling the shield

Data
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Posted: 20th Mar 2007 00:51
just one thing, if you need any models for the game world/buidlings/structures let me know and perhpas I can help. You cna see my work here:http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=100133&b=31

www.urbn-tremor.net
jasonhtml
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Posted: 1st Apr 2007 04:04 Edited at: 24th Nov 2007 20:38
i havent worked on this in 2 weeks... i had problems getting xp to dual boot with vista, but now it works! and all of my projects were transfered onto this new pc.

anyway, i was testing this some more and i kinda thought: the system i made is nice, but do you think it would tire the player too much using the scroll? at first it seemed like a good idea, but it needs to be improved. one idea i had to make it easier was to make it so that you actually use the cursor to aim instead of the cursor following the sword's movements. what do you think?

EDIT: ill post a pic of my progress in a bit
EDIT2: heres a screenshot so that you can see how much i have done: i added support for multiple limbs so that i can have a shield and a sword, or 2 swords, or 2 shields, or absolutely nothing at all!

Image Removed to make the page loading time better...

tha_rami
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Posted: 1st Apr 2007 17:05
I need a demo to test your idea of scrolling/aiming. I really liked the old system but I agree that it is quite tiring. The concept is great, though!


Silvester
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Posted: 1st Apr 2007 22:52
It keeps getting better

I realy need to play your game when its done,the first RPG wich will require REAL LIFE skill's to battle

The admiral
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2007 00:58
I personally think you should use the cursor to aim and then hold down the left mouse key to perfrom a swing as scrolling is slow noisy and tiresome.

The admiral
jasonhtml
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2007 03:42 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2007 03:44
ok, i made a new concept for aiming. tell me what you think (see pic)



this makes it easy for anyone to swing the sword without getting overly tired. and holding down the mouse button and dragging it farther across the screen would make the swing more accurate, but would take more time(just by a split second, but it would make a difference)

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tha_rami
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2007 09:40
Well, that kinda sounds good, but this would drop stabbing/poking, would it?

I like this one .


jasonhtml
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Posted: 6th Apr 2007 19:43
ya, i thought about that and i have a solution so that it is easy to slash and stab interchangeably:

left mouseclick - slash
(hold) right mouseclick - control the shield
left and right mouseclick together - stab; not only will it stab, but it will do a temporary block while preparing for the stab, since you wont be able to parry vary well while stabbing

and sorry i havent had any progress lately... school has been killing me lately. but, now it spring break! but im going on a short trip tomorrow, so i hope i can get something new up in a week...

Data
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Posted: 6th Apr 2007 22:35
looks cool


[url=www.web.mac.com/the_data]iDevelop[/url]
jasonhtml
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Posted: 10th Jun 2007 19:36 Edited at: 24th Nov 2007 20:39
wow, i haven't posted here in so long and finals are coming in 2 weeks so there is no telling how fast or slow progress will go. but dont worry! i have made progress this last month, i just haven't had the time to show everyone.

for the most part, ive been working on my new environment test. it uses plantmaps, advanced terrain, relief mapping, and so far i have 3 different types of plants: short grass, a tall "grass plant"(i dont know what to call it), and pine trees.

heres a pic of it in early development when i had just applied shaders:
Image Removed to make the page loading time better...
and heres a pic i took today when i finally added the pinetrees:
Image Removed to make the page loading time better, but is still viewable at the download button.

as for the combat test, i still have some bugs to work out.

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Deathead
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Posted: 10th Jun 2007 21:28
Nice man.
But i think you need to sort out the grass looks to crossy.

My Avatar is copyright to John F's Wick Models
Data
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Posted: 10th Jun 2007 22:15
wow, I thought this was dead... nice to see its alive
jasonhtml
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Posted: 11th Jun 2007 00:40
thx

@deathead: ya, it looks like that in some places. i did it to make it look more natural and its all placed and rotated by an algorithm so that i dont have to place it all by hand.

Deathead
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Posted: 11th Jun 2007 18:35 Edited at: 11th Jun 2007 18:36
Oh okay mate i thought you done it by hand!

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jasonhtml
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Posted: 11th Jul 2007 02:43 Edited at: 11th Jul 2007 03:23
ok, back to working on the combat WIP, i have come to a big problem...

im not happy with the system that i have developed because the reaction time is too slow for a fast paced sword fight. based on my current controls, everyones actions lag behind, which is incredibly annoying to play with.

so, ive been designing a new system that is similar to the old one, but i want everything in real time and i want COMPLETE control of both arms(ex: sword and shield). switching between arm control would be easy with just a click of the mouse, but im having trouble coming up with good controls for the arm + the camera.

so far, ive come up with these controls:
W - camera forward
S - camera backward
A,D - turn camera

mouse forward/backward - extend and retract arm from the players body
mouse side-to-side - move arm side-to-side

now my problem is how to look up and down with the camera AND move the arm up and down INDEPENDENTLY of the camera with ease. using the keyboard would be hard to get used to and too inaccurate. using the scroll wheel on the mouse is too inaccurate and clumsy to use.

this is not going to be easy to impliment, but there has got to be a way to do it so that it is easy for players to use! any ideas are appreciated, even though im bound to reject most of them because im trying to make this combat system as perfect as possible...


EDIT: ill probably edit this post tons of times because im just brainstorming... but anyway, i had another idea. what if the system, instead of the one above, keep my old system of clicking and dragging to slash, except have it so that the player has to hold down the mouse button and as the mouse button is pressed, the arm extends? wait... that was my old system BEFORE the old system wasn't it? ill have to check

EDIT2: hm... the idea i posted in my first edit is actually more of a combo of my original system (downloadable in the first post) and the system that came after that. of course this combo system still doesn't solve looking up with the camera... *still brainstorming*

Silvester
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Posted: 11th Jul 2007 17:12
Little thing,if you use your mouse for attacking,how will you use your interface like Inventory and Character menu?will those menu's disable attack mode?


jasonhtml
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Posted: 11th Jul 2007 22:20
probably. ive come across that as an issue too, and what you said is exactly what i had in mind. just click "i", for instance, and the inventory will open, disabling attacking. of course, this could hinder the player if they accidentally press a menu button. XBox button for example...(if you play the XBox360)

Silvester
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Posted: 11th Jul 2007 23:44
Make the Menu Commands Alt+<Command Key> then,this will solve that part.


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