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IMPORTANT INFORMATION - Users please note this is a test, awareness and solution thread.

Hello people, well after trying to help out another user here with a lag error, to find it maybe is not just a single problem. I decided to make a more official post about what I have incounted, and discovered using the engine. This may help users, Im not sure. Also topics may have been asked, and answered before hand. However I wanted to collect these points all together. Divided into sections.
*Please note, some text from myself has been taken from finds and fixes posted in another 2 topics found here. And also the effects and answers here will be different for users. Pc specs will have alot to do with it. Some users may have never had these problems. Lets start.

***MAJOR UPDATE BELOW***

LAG - Engine, editor or both
The editor has a nasty bug in it, where you can have invisible entitys and segments in your level with out even knowing, unless you scan for them. However removal can be tricky.

I solved this problem one night when I had placed a segment *edit- I thought so, did something away from my pc, jumped on. Then selected a different segment, noticed I didnt want the last segment placed so I deleted the segment. However the blue grid where the segment was removed, was still high lighted after moving the viewing area away, to reveal it.
Now I may be wrong, yet I think I re-deleted the invisible segment with the same segment or placing it again and removing.
This is maybe causing a over-lapping and a small (or large) reason for some fps problems, such as editing a area too many times.
As this invisible placement or overlapping can not be seen.

Removal and other factors need to be tested though. And deleting a segment area with entitys placed, may also involve some cause to entitys becoming invisible, you can find these invisbile entitys by searching for dots on your level editor that are not shown in your level.
update:
The above error I know is there, and will post screens soon, I just tried to re-create the error, and it is not easy to do, leading to me thinking has something to do when more segments are added. If you check out Kaelin's thread, from his screens his level looked large. I suggested to compact his level, except he got even worse results. I then re-created his level, to find I got 33fps and adding entitys and lights. However I made the level, with no edits. So he either incounted a 0fps LockUp which is mentioned to have no real solution (topic here http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=119579&b=21), or the editor produced the problem via level editing.

Anyway Im not real sure what the editor errors cause, all I can suggest is too plan your level out first, try to avoid making heaps of changes to your segments etc. The other option is to make saves (rename) when doing a fair few changes to your level, if you encounter lag, revert to your last save name, and try a different idea for your map.


Enemys not doing what you want? Additonal lag with Markers/Zones.
Depending on 2 factors, 1 using trigger zones and 2 checking your save on your entitys properties. If you find your enemys standing still, doing nothing. Even though you have double checked your chars Start/Main/Destroy scripts, has weapon etc. If you are using Trigger Zones, check how many. Having a over amount of trigger zones can create undesired effect, it is often caused by the engine getting confused.
Also another trick is to double check your entitys properties, and adjust a option, then change it back to what you want and save again, I found worked with one enemy that would not draw his gun.

Also cutscenes, using Story Zones I found to be the same as above. They can also create a effect on enemy scripts etc.. Also when making one, I found out the hard way when 1 clip was 30mb in size, made the game freeze for a bit and also added to the final build size, as I thought the clip would reduce in size for the game build. So my tip here is make small size clips with lots of story, info, impact whatever you can fit in. And try to not use too many.


Landscape lockup area idea

To add to this, outer curved landscape works best in any areas around the centre of your landscape model or level. Try using segment floor, use the lower tool to adjust your lanscape to remove any areas that may cause problems and to also get a desired effect. Also using invisble segment walls can help in some cases, however can also add fps problems too.


Long hallway theory
Again depending on level size, long hallways can be fine. However i have found long hallways dont really like joining hallways if you are leading from a small area into a large. Going from a large room into a long hallway to another room that is smaller can be fine, yet heading back out it has to produce the large part of the level again.
Inside corners (like inside curves mentioned above) maybe are a slight or major problem, depending on how large of area you have close by or in your level somewhere.
Having a long, medium hallway leading from these areas can produce different results. For those reading, yes pc specs make a difference. Yet if you are getting a drop in fps, I have found it can be caused from one of these areas even if you are on the other side of your map.
In relation to changing the hallway length, and still having problems. It may have something to do with my first topic, it may not. Trial and error.


Stair case extra
When your designing a level, add an extra segment block behind your staircase placement. This will remove the small added part if a wall was placed, located at the above step. And I have also found will prevent enemeys getting locked up on stair cases (depending on script), this also may remove the slight problem with lag, when going down. Not sure.


Enemy doing extra animations
After placing a barrel that could explode at the end of a hallway, with a enemy around the corner. set to Chase. If I shot the barrel to cause the explosion, when going around the corner, the enemy would be in a swim animation floating off the ground, when shot would go into the Chase script, yet in a funny manner, wanting to run into the wall. Not shoting the barrel, caused no effect.


double L shape segment theory
After making a level based on 3-4 vertical levels, with a centre room, with adjoining rooms on the outer areas. Adding various lights, entitys etc. I found I incounted a problem. Without not know what the real cause was, I set off to find out.
The end result was a poor shaped main room (med/large), that was in the shape of a L. I will post a pic soon.
When standing in the larger area of the L, it showed 33fps on all sides, except the side facing the smaller section of the L shape room.
From the other side, same results. Only when facing the large area, would drop fps. After only adding 2 segment blocks, that the entire level picked up fps. I had to change design, yet the result paid off.

I hope this will help some users. I plan to hit the editor for awhile, and Im still hoping to release a new level pic soon. And then get into some work. So until then, here's my tips, use them if it helps.

hi..

on the Lag Engian or editor it could be the ceilling

above where the segment was.. that would explain the light blue


pain

Hi Pain, Thanks for your comment.
At first I thought you are correct, and maybe are. Yet after checking just then, this is not the error. Even though the ceiling or roof may be a cause.
It's kinda of hard to explain how it happens, as im sure having discovered it more than just a few times im not going crazy. When it happens even though the light blue may show, the ceiling, segment, whatever doesn't show when highlighted. The first time I had this occur was making outdoor maps, and the invisible placed segment (floor i think) showed up (blue square), but was not there.

lol after hours of me stairing at the screen i go crazy... and start seeing those.. things thats about 3-4 am in the morning lol

pain

@Pain haha, classic.

To other users.
Im not trying to suggest try my ideas, thats up to yourself.
We are all developers (indi yes) and im sure alot of users all have their ideas and skills to make a good game and knowledge on how they use the engine/editor. And I respect that.

However after finding problems, I decided to start tests and test maps than making game levels etc..Even while making my contest entry. Later to discover lots of action with-in the editor itself.
I first was not going to post anything about these and just use the ideas to make a game with, yet I see alot of users discovering lag, and the answer is often specs, engine, size of level, mystery etc.
And thanks to Kaelin for posting his problem, this later helped me to test the editor theory. And I would like to thank him. I guess I went to help him, and later he helped me.

I have found the above topics occur or work in some way and Im not too fazed if people want to use the ideas or not. Thats your call.
However in case users havn't read the entire above post, there is now suggestion that the fps lock up or additional un-known lag caused. May be prevented. (I would have said CAN, but i dont think its a full solution)

If I run into the invisible segment i mentioned, which I know will occur if Im not watching myself in the editor. I will post screens.
However the reason why I added this info, I have never found any documention on the topic, and Im thinking that it wasnt brought up, because it has either been overlooked, or no suggstion that the editor could cause it. *may be wrong here, too many posts to search.

To add to this. Later tests using 3rd party segment makers, original media (scifi/ww2) and others will have to be carried out.
The reason I think I have not been able to re-create the error, depends on how much of your level is allready created. (going off the same idea/solution using Trigger zones) When I have time, I will be doing a full test. And will post the results.


I decided to post results from 1 test. This level from what I know, had no enemys placed. However entitys in general were. without knowing how many, I added more entitys in the problem area, plus more lights.


Kaelin's level.
*problems, 0fps lock up, additional lag else where, removal or re-editing did not create a fix.

AMD Sempron 3100+ 1.8Ghz
1GB PC2700 Kingston
Vista Home Premium
Nvidia 6600GT


Deca's re-creation level.
*problems = none. 33fps out the entire level (maybe 32 i saw once).
*No edit was preformed to make the level, did not delete a placed segment once.
*No lock up area any where, I did not have to use [C] in the entire level.

AMD Sempron 1.6Ghz
512Mb Ram
Windows XP
Nvidia 5500

*check those specs out, im old, have kids. so I cant upgrade yet, pushing me to work out how to make things run better. What I find funny EraBlaze was also created on these specs.
Wish all the users here, a good Xmas, and Happy Hunting for those bad guys!

One more pic, to show what I mean.


This hallway is like 19-20 segment blocks in length, not including the room where Im standing in. You can see how far away the door at the end is.
The user's lag being at the end of the hallway, around a corner through a door. But later said, that after edits the main staircase in the centre of the hallway was then playing up.

The above shot was taken in the re-created level, doors open and with random entitys placed, still = 33fps. This also leads me to believe that the Hallway suggestion in the first post could also be wrong, and all rests on how the level is edited the first time.

Sorry for the triple post.
UPDATE
I just received a email from Kaelin, and he has been hard at work. In the following pics, sent to me in this order. Shows what is the invisible segment theory, I sent a email to Kaelin to confirm and his reply is below.

*please note the viewing area inside the editor.



This shot shows that the segment is there.


When editing this is what you will see, if not looking for it.


This shot is either from the upper level or below (not sure), here it shows the dark shade where the segment should be. If you look close you can see 2 walls produced. these could have alot to do with the 0fps problem.


*To add, reviewing these photos again. If a user incounters the above, they may not even know it is there. Such as maybe layed on top of each other. As I have removed them before it could show that if one pops up, a user may have deleted the invisible segment when they re-edit/replace the segment with another segment and so on. And Im leading to the idea that when it happens, thats it. Thats leaves the rest up to who ever is reading this.



***EXTRA UPDATE***
I have now confirmed with Kaelin, that the above photos are correct. And are proof of what I have mentioned in the first post and in Kaelin's area lag thread. Below is some quotes (with premission) that Kaelin mentioned in his email.






Once again, Happy christmas.

Im a bit surprised about this topic droping a bit. Yet I see lots have viewed it so far. I advise to any user to read this whole topic start to finish. I discovered this invisible problem for myself about 2 months ago [-edit, meaning the blue square], yet could not release the info until I was fully sure. Then 1 user that I dont know, finds the problem in his map.

In case some users are un-sure, or puzzled with what Im trying to explain. Or maybe not even interested... Below is a map (taken from Era Blaze) that I ran out of time on, didnt have a chance to re-create it. That gives an example of the error, that is shown in the last post.
I really hope that users take this thread serious, if not let it drop down the list. This is not my worry.

*to tgc, I am not trying to say bad things here, it looks to be partly worked out, and Im sure there are ways around it, unless the GUI editor can be updated, as it seems to be storing deleted segment/entitys within the code.
In saying this, from my map edit with no deletes or re-edits produced no problems. A new user found the error mentioned above and could not remove it. When he tested his level, he got low fps in this area. Thankyou.

@Pain, I hope you like the x4 photos above. This is what I mean.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Example Level


Before I started this level I got my media ready, segments made ready to go. The level started with a simple outer limit build (due to the contest 15x15 rule) I then started to add in the rest.

DARK BLUE - to the right, this was where the original part of the level looked like and ended, and was 2 layers high. With a additional 2 more layers to build up a fake wall to the buildings on either side.

LIGHT BLUE - outside area, produced good fps. Even though the buildings were 4 layers high, and had 2 large mountain models. And when I say good, it was good. Later I decided to add more to the level, seen how the outside area was running fine.

YELLOW - Here is where I started to build the room, joining to the far right room, and the walkway leading outside. It is here where all the problems started.

GREEN - At first when I was building, I thought well im inside so lets use up what space I had there.
*However, I wanted the level to have parts that looked different. So I saved, closed fpsc. made some stuff. After a build and test and strange drop in fps poped up, I then reduced the room and then later removed it all together. After a full day of testing (and I mean edit & test over and over) I was getting a strange fps problem around the YELLOW circle area. So now with even the room removed Outside on the platform bridge was now giving me problems.

RED X's - After doing a scan, and removing and adding additional segments 1 by 1. I found that the problem was somewhere around here. I could not see the invisible segments though (by this time i knew what i was looking for)
*NOTE THE ABOVE QUOTE IN A POST ABOUT A DOOR BEING PLACED.

GREEN - In the end, no matter what I did, the problem was there and nothing I could do. I was runing out of time, so I built in a room, tested and showed no change to the allready low fps. Added some objects. and it didnt alter the fps either. So I left them in.

ORANGE - before hand facing outside walking over the bridge was ace! I was really happy. After all of the above happened, walking into or out of this area [green area] gave me major lag.

To wrap up, If I hadnt of started editing and re-editing to try and make this room look good or even add it at all. The fps drop im sure would not have shown up, as in the first test it was fine.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also might I add, Im not sure if the invisible segment error added to confussion within the engine, because this is how I found Trigger zones were causing the enemy to stand around, run into walls etc.

I took advice from a thread here, saying that adding Trigger Zones would help fps, and seen that I now had low fps in the map, I decide to add a few.
And it did not help me at all, also adding to the enemys standing there.
EVEN WITH THE LOW FPS FOUND IN THE YELLOW CIRCLE, ADDING 8 ENEMYS AND ONLY 2 TRIGGERS, DID NOT ALTER THE FPS AND MADE ALL THE ENEMYS RESPOND.
Some even doing cool things, like moving about without me knowing. running around corners, up stairs and so on without me being there to draw them towards me. In the photo you can see where I placed the only 2 triggers in the map.

Adding a 3rd, and enemys went to sleep.

The issue of the possibility of world objects that have been removed from a level during design and re-design of a level (indicated by the coloured tile areas left behind in editor) whereby the engine might see such instances of objects removed as still existing and calculte the polygons during compile is one which has been known about ever scine FPSC release some years ago and is been clear to see for all inside the editor.

In theory few of these exist or remain in a complete level especially in the case where a level is complex or large and most of the world tile area is covered with world objects. Though it could possibly be the case that each and every occurrance of a placed object then removed perhaps to be replaced could have an unseen accumalative affect. In a level where a great deal of redsign occurs consistantly this could possibly result in large accumalation of additional hidden polygons.

The point being that it is irrelevant to a situation in an engine like FPSC where the culling procedures taking place during bsp compile does not carry out effective polygon reduction to the levels of polygons to acceptable levels.

During the compile process FPSC does not remove all unecessary polygons from world objects that can be seen in editor or at test level run time in wire frame mode and following compile at game run, leave alone polygons that perhaps in theory do or do not exist (an unknown factor) but maybe calculated and can not be seen in editor or at run time but may nevertheless exist.

At compile the FPSC bsp compile process calculates polygons based upon factors in the case of FPSC unknown to us and perhaps unknown to TGC. Again in theory and ideally the compile process would calculate polygons to view dependant upon the level design and camera view and numerous other factors such as how it understands the world objects used, tile factors, texture reputition and size and more.

FPSC clearly does not do this effectively and that is a well known fact. It does not matter so much how many world objects exist within sensible reason used to cover the FPSC world. As is the case with FPSC to cover the given world size with reasonably simple world object building components such as used by FPSC the number is netiher infinate nor unreasonable.

Given that a compile process carries out effective culling by calculating effective division of a level efficiently during the compile process and removing all but polys of faces to view at any given camera position at any time within a level the number of world objects used in world builing in editor should have no major bearing.

All that should remain in a final build should be enough and no more polys to allow for polys to view to exist at any point of the camera within a level at game run time. All other polygons should not exist at any player/camera position other than those associated with the view or required to be called to view to allow effective world object generation on the fly as the player/camera moves through the level. As the player/camera does so the polys that previously existed should be removed unless required again.

Culling on the fly is not effective or efficient in FPSC and what level of culling does exist can be erratic. In addition there is no LOD system either by default or user control and the latter would be a bad idea for FPSC anyway.

This subject has been debated in detail in the past. The factors that influence poly counts in bsp type engines and TGC products in particular are well known and documented. The bsp compile process has been around for a long time.

TGC are well aware of the situation. I doubt there is anything they can or will do about it in the case of FPSC. As far as I am aware it is not very likely and so any user findings, discoveries and suggestions for improvements are most welcome I am sure but I doubt it will have any major affect for users in an engine where the compile build game process itself seems to be somewhat a little unstable, erratiic and partially ineffective.

At the end of the day overall poly counts generally speaking in FPSC are not the biggest problem with fps and gameplay speeds. FPSC can handle large numbers of world level and entity polygons. The serious lagg issue is another matter and there may be a number of factors influencing that. One that does that has a much bigger influence and serious detrimental affect on overall gameplay enjoyment, speeds and fps than the poly counts is character AI.

Well on the PC spec side of things, personally I think it has quite an impact on most designs and such, especially for Vista users. I did a few tests, mainly on my ever so laggy mansion and got it to speed up slightly. Setting the priority of the game to "above normal" helped a little but can also make the pc trip up if your not carefull. I don't recommend anyone tries this by the way.

For those who just love to overclock, you might think that it'll help your game run smoother. Actually, no it wont, most you'll gain is about 2fps (if you do it right). But don't be suprised if you get a blue screen when using FPSC. If your game is going out to other people, it's not exactly going to help. So if your overclocking and having a 'bit' of lag, try using the stock settings.

Vista: Program compatibility settings.
After a few tests I found that setting compatibility to "Windows XP (Service Pack 2)" only made things worse, this might not be the same for other users though.

Vista: Memory/Ram.
Most Vista users probably know, it eats up quite a lot of memory, and I have found this to be a bit of a problem for me when using FPSC. Mainly for your usual junk filled pc like me, and a graphics card with low memory (128mb), You might find Vista uses 500MB+ alone (not so much for users with a high-end graphics cards). Vista has a nice feature where if the graphics card gets low on memory, uses some of your Ram to avoid slow downs and the like. This isn't the same for FPSC in some ways, when running my game I find that it eats up almost 300MB of my ram. For a map you could run around in 2 minutes, this has a huge impact on preformance. About 80MB of that are entities, and there are roughly 100+ entities in my map (not a good idea). Although games will run, they might not be the smoothest, I'd recommend having atleast 1.5GB of memory to avoid hitting the max.

Vista: DirectX 10.
From what I've learnt from my past job as a computer engineer, DirectX 10 isn't so backward compatible with X9. X10 can only emulate X9 which can cause quite alot of problems. If you look around, you see people hating on Vista and saying stuff like "My game wont run! this sucks!!!" and often go back to XP. There's a good reason DirectX 9 is supplied on most game disks and installing it is a good idea. If your wondering, no it wont overwrite DirectX 10, it will only supply the files needed to run your X9 application. So if your having problems running your game whether its slowness, crashing, blocky effects, etc... try installing DirectX 9. You can also check to see if you have any errors in your DirectX by going to start>run (or windows key+R) and typing in "dxdiag" without the quotes (if you get a message box with yes/no, select yes), let the bar at the bottom finish loading and goto your "Display" tab.

Vista: Themes.
All I can say is, try not to use Aero if your getting slowdowns, it uses alot of memory.

At the moment I don't have a great deal to say about XP, it does have it's ups and downs though, depending on what applications your running.

Also when running through your map, it's constantly loading things as you approach, this can cause slowdowns, But I have also found it to be the same with unloading things. As I was told, try not to group entities togeather, like for instance...on my map I have a pile of crates (not a good idea).

but that's all I have to say for now, take care everyone and have a lovely christmas!

Thats great Uman and thankyou for your in-depth overview.

You have been here alot longer than me and know the correct terminology, Im just a simple user trying to get my maps to perform better. Im sorry to say that I am unaware of the discussions or documentation on this matter that you have mentioned. As I have never seen any photos like the 4 above or the matter explained on how it may occur. When I first arrived here I read what I could. Ive been using a pc for awhile yet dont have the specs like some users. Trying to keep up, I spent time learning how to map edit better, took me a few months to understand why lag was happening for no reason. And since have no real problems which is good.

Anyway Thanks again for your post, Im sure some users will be interested in the details that you have posted here.


*edit - In addition to your post. Please note "I discovered this invisible problem for myself about 2 months ago" Meaning the blue square found mentioned before. Just in case you thought otherwise, I added the info above to save confussion.


*edit - I Think I may have found what documentation you may be refering to.
Consolidated FPSC Chat Stickies / FPSC tips n' tricks

Same text also found in Nickydudes hints and tips. So far this is all I can find. User may have more luck. However searching 'editor' 'editor bug' 'invisible' and 'invisible segment' plus some others didn't show any reasults for me yet. So from the looks of it, Les Horribles theory was correct. And I hope you dont mind Les that info and pictures were added to the topic.
This thread from the start was to inform people it is there and that it can show its self.

Also in the TehFAQ 2.1.2 / Fpsc errors - I could only find

------------------------------------------------------------------------
To other users, I found a photo from 2005. It was labeled Editor-Bug, I read the comment associated with the picture a few times. From the looks of it, it may have been a simple new person Q. The reply answer was to read the manual. However please note this comment that didnt seem to be answered "or doesnt show at all... when i save and reload it back, it still looks like this...when i make new project, it goes normal" This could in fact be one of the 1st mentions of this happening.

And a comment I found by Ross tra damus / Aug 2007 *hope you dont mind Ross, if I had seen you post, I would have posted, yet I only used v1.6 for a limited time anyway. Sorry to see you didnt get a answer to your post.

For people interested, Ive tracked down all possible threads on Lag problems that relate to the main subject here for users to use as reference.
Please note I have read them all, Les Horribres,Merranvo and uman have made posts that im sure users will find interesting and helpful.

Search - LAG / LAGG
Mar 2005 - http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=50709&b=21

Dec 2005 - http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=67839&b=21

Jan 2006 - http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=68465&b=21

Feb 2006 - http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=71918&b=21

Mar 2006 - http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=73911&b=21
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=74079&b=21

Oct 2006 - http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=91257&b=21

Nov 2006 - http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=92951&b=21

Dec 2006 - http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=96098&b=21

Dec 2007 - http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=119579&b=21

Search - LAGGING
Nothing related found, only a user related lag post.

Search - Serious Lagg Issue
Feb 2006 http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=72543&b=28

There is good reference to the topic of what causes a problem in the above links, And now there is evidence to prove who ever's theory it was, its there. and can now be avoided with great level building. I would like to thank uman for his posts and time he has taken to research the theory, as well as Les Horribres,Merranvo. I hardly knew the time span since this topic was first in mention.
I hope users can use this information posted in this thread to increase gameplay and found the photos interesting.

A quote taken from a post, by uman Feb/2006






Update: Wireframe, no tests have been taken yet.

A quote taken from a post, by uman Dec/2007

Just to let users know I have never used the wireframe option before, and Im not sure if the viewable segment error will be visible like in the photos. My suggestion why segment errors will not appear in the editor, like in the photos. When they occur they can be removed, so the segment error is being double edited, however is still imbeding the problem as mentioned in the quote.



*Not related to any solutions here, however If the user gets full lockup within the engine from some problem, what ever it shall be. Try using Alt/Tab to bring up the onscreen display, using keyboard select another option other than the .exe in idle. Once done, Ctrl,Alt,Del will then bring up Task manager. And if the program doesnt respond, log off or reboot safetly.
(works on Xp, Vista not tested and may be reported to also work)

Additional causes can be processor over heating and should be replaced. Also ram like any pc componet can be damaged via power surges. If you have this occur (power cuts out, while pc was on) can damage your ram. Booting your pc, to wonder why it rebooted and booted again. You may have a amount you believe is there, however double check in system settings to see whats showing. I have seen new 6month old ddr ram become useless from this happening.

Well Im back. Been listening to The Roots, running test mode more, and mentioned in another topic I would continue what I started.
So here's some more documentation that may help increase fps or an insight to what may be a factor (only 1 gun tested). However seen that a post I made (non threating) in another thread may have been deleted or removed, or unless there is another glitch in the forum along with another one I know of. This may be the last update here, as I may move this content and future discussions else where. Thats to save people time that dont want to look here.



No gun, Outdoors, Level build not seen to the left, Includes various entitys.


With ww2 hand gun, after pick up. Also no change to level build design.

Hey deca, these discussions would go great in my Level Design forum if you discontinue them here

Hey Nickydude, just got your message.
Thanks for the offer. I was planning on making a site page somewhere. Yet that sounds like a good idea. I will look into it, drop you a PM later.

I can't read through everything at the moment, but I beleive that the problem relating to the blue square is not infact an invisible segment/entity. The blue squares are probably handled by a 2-Dimensonal array for each level of the map, and when a segment is placed a value is written into that array. When the segment is removed that value may not be properly reset, resulting in the bug you have found.

Hello Airslide, thanks for dropping by.

To reply to the last part of your comment. Yes I agree, a new array (for those that don’t know, Data Structure) dimension can be added on top of each individual array "stem" creating a two-dimensional array. This would explain the GUI problem I thought was there.

Yeah this is right, somewhere up there I mentioned something similar to this. Not about Value's though.
This does make a lot of sense, as I’ve removed these about 3 or more times there may be a way to correct lag areas before a final build via the array within the placement area. Yet the process is hard to remember, yet possible.

As you may know the past time on this for me has been for tests, awareness and solutions, informing users about Bugs (as called) or the one you have mentioned only comes into play to help understand it further and increase knowledge on level design.
About the invisible segment/entity, in a lot of my tests it does not occur until a segment/entity is removed/deleted creating what I call for short, invisible. This has helped users to better understand what’s happening. A lot of the time the blue square and/or black walls dont show.

Anyway thanks for your comment, just Mirrors and Wires.



EDIT:
When I get a chance, I will repost details over at the LevelDesign forum.
I may not be around here as much anymore, and I would like the information posted somewhere in better order.
I would like to thank users that gave comments towards my posts, showcase screens, era blaze etc.
And good luck to all fpsc users with there map building.

*Please no more game builds sent to me to test.