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Dark Physics & Dark A.I. & Dark Dynamix / DarkGDK & Ragdolls

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_Pauli_
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Posted: 5th Nov 2009 22:50
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Do they work?

I'm trying to get ragdolls working with skinned models.
Here is what I have so far (but it doesn't work!):



Am I missing something?
Are there any demos or tutorials on this?
Any help is greatly appreciated!

Now the plot thickens, the fps decreases, and the awesomeness goes through the roof.
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Airslide
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Posted: 6th Nov 2009 01:53
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I don't know if you're going to get any help on this. I recall being promised a demo of a fully skinned ragdoll some time ago but that's obviously never happened.

I'm afraid too much of DP just seems broken and unsupported, which is pretty sad considering it has so much potential. If FPSC used it I'm sure it'd have a lot more attention

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_Pauli_
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Posted: 6th Nov 2009 10:12 Edited at: 6th Nov 2009 10:14
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Yeah just a simple working demo would help so much!
I hope that the ragdoll commands work, since I've read that the rope demo (which was unfortunatly not included in my DP installation!) uses them and works fine.

So the basic problem is how to use the commands correctly rather than not working at all?

Another thing is that I could basicaly do it without the built-in ragdoll commands, if I would know how to correctly 'glue' the limbs of my skinned model to rigid body objects!
Has anybody tried this before? I have the positioning (offset) of the limbs done, but I can't get the rotation to work!

Now the plot thickens, the fps decreases, and the awesomeness goes through the roof.
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HowDo
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Posted: 6th Nov 2009 11:35
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Pauli do wish to kown how to use add limbs or glue limbs?

Dark Physics makes any hot drink go cold.
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_Pauli_
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Posted: 6th Nov 2009 15:44
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I want to know how to rotate & position a limb of a skinned model to the position & rotation of another object (e.g. a rigid body as a part of a ragdoll).
Well, I have the position done, but I don't know how to rotate the limbs properly!
If I knew how to do that, I would be able to make my custom ragdoll system...

Has anybody ever tried something like this?
Or how to make the DarkPhysics built-in ragdoll commands work?

Now the plot thickens, the fps decreases, and the awesomeness goes through the roof.
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_Pauli_
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Posted: 6th Nov 2009 17:02 Edited at: 6th Nov 2009 17:04
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I have some specific questions about the DarkPhysics ragdoll commands:

dbPhyMakeRagdoll ( int iID, int iObject, int iPhysics )

Ok, I guess iObject is the ID of the object that holds the skinned model.
What is iPhysics supposed to be? The reference says: 'the first object identification number that is going to be part of the skeleton'. Is this the rigid body that is like the center of the ragdoll (e.g. the chest or stomach)?

dbPhyAssignRagdollPart ( int iID, int iMesh, int iBone, int iObject )

What is iMesh? Is it a mesh that is made from the model (dbMakeMeshFromObject)? If so, do I have to update the model object somehow (maybe dbChangeMesh on the model object with the ragdoll mesh)?

dbPhyGetRagdollExist ( int iID )

When I use this command I get the following error:
'error LNK2001: Nicht aufgelöstes externes Symbol ""int __cdecl dbPhyGetRagdollExist(int)" (?dbPhyGetRagdollExist@@YAHH@Z)". Debug\Engine.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 nicht aufgelöste externe Verweise.'
Why? (It's german I know...)

I hope that someone can answer one or more of these questions!
Maybe some of the TGC/DarkPhysics officials could help out here, too?

Now the plot thickens, the fps decreases, and the awesomeness goes through the roof.
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 7th Nov 2009 03:12
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The ragdoll commands aren't even understood by my version of Dark Physics.. I just assumed they didn't work...
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_Pauli_
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Posted: 7th Nov 2009 03:51
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Well, they are recognized and compile fine, but I just can't see any effect! I can't even check if the ragdoll exists

Does anybody have a DarkGDK version of the rope demo? (or at least the DBPro version)

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Jammy
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Posted: 8th Nov 2009 10:14
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I don't have Dark GDK - but I do have dark basic pro and dark physics, I thought that if something worked with one it would work in the other as they were basically the same. I had seen for a while that people had trouble with textured rag dolls, but had never tried it myself until recently.

For the halloween community compo to make a screensaver, I made a Ragdoll Skeleton (just the one from DARK MATTER VOl 1). I Gave it a new texture. Split the Model into limbs and just attached the limbs to native DBP Objects, Using the physx ragdoll demo heavily as a reference. I made a textured ragdoll. I still don't see how It wouldn't work just using the model and cutting out the DBP objects and attaching process.

here is a screenshot




The compo was only a week long and I missed the first 3-4 days as I did not know about it.

You can download the program here its called Skelly
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=159600&b=36

It includes the media and source code. The source code is very messy as I was in a big hurry.

You move the skeleton by moving the mouse any other key exits the program (It is supposed to be a screensaver)

It also never won, But I show that Textured Ragdolls are possible in Dark Physics.

Good luck and If You think I can help - give me a shout.

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Duke E
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Posted: 8th Nov 2009 12:31
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@Jammy

Though great looking and implemented in your demo, unfortunately the skeleton is not a true skinned ragdoll. It is separate parts joined with joints, similar to the ragdolls made from capsules in the DP demos.

Skinned ragdolls use the rigged IK chained skeleton/limbs. Was a while since i looked in to this but if i remember correctly the rotation of the limbs in the rig in relation to the root bones is handled wrong by the phy ragdoll commands. The rope demo works as it is a linear chain.

Regards
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_Pauli_
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Posted: 8th Nov 2009 14:07 Edited at: 8th Nov 2009 14:10
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Quote: "I thought that if something worked with one it would work in the other as they were basically the same"


Me too, I guess it's true.

I'm gonna take a look at Skelly. Are you making objects from the models limbs there? well, not exactly what I'm looking for but may be good enough. Isn't the 'connection' between the limbs lost when you convert them to single objects? (like the arms vertices are not connected the shoulder anymore)
Meanwhile I wrote TGC an email about this whole issue, hope to get some response soon...

EDIT:

Quote: "The rope demo works as it is a linear chain."


Wouldn't it be possible to make the ragdoll just a rigid body box as torso and attach four chain-like limbs to it as arms and legs?
Would that work?

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pdq
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Posted: 8th Nov 2009 21:44 Edited at: 8th Nov 2009 21:46
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Quote: "
Meanwhile I wrote TGC an email about this whole issue, hope to get some response soon...
"


Good luck on that

Check out my email that I sent to them last year June 2008 on this issue:

Quote: "

2 things I thought I would finally email you on, simply because it is quite possible that no one else has emailed you these requests.

1) When will models be implemented in Dark Physics?

2) Many Dark Physics users have requested another example of a character ragdoll attached to a skinned X character model. (ex: "aiko.x") Could you please put this in the next update. I do not think anyone has been successfull at attaching the ragdoll to a skinned model, at least as far as the forums go.

"


And their response:

Quote: "

I need to spend some time working on both issues. The first one will be a big help to those using more complex models and the second one is also a key feature that needs to be demonstrated.

I'm aiming to spend some time on it over the next few weeks. Unfortunately I can't be more specific as I working on multiple projects and my time gets split between those.

"


still waiting... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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_Pauli_
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Posted: 8th Nov 2009 22:44
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Damn, I hope they made progress on this since June 2008

At least he stated that ragdolls with skinned models is a key feature, so I see light at the end of the tunnel...

Now the plot thickens, the fps decreases, and the awesomeness goes through the roof.
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Jammy
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Posted: 9th Nov 2009 06:35
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Duke E - it is the same as the
Quote: " ragdolls made from capsules in the DP demos"
I used them big time as a reference. I don't understand what "the rigged IK chained skeleton/limbs" are, sorry, but i'm sure you are right.

_Pauli_ -

1) yes, I am making objects from the models limbs,body and head.

2) yes, the 'connection' between the limbs lost when you convert
them to single objects. However you can use joints within dark physics to connect arms, legs etc back to the body. I used both sphere and revolute joints. It takes a bit of time to get limbs lined up again.

Although it is not a true Ragdoll - It acts like one, and may be a solution.

Good Luck

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_Pauli_
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Posted: 9th Nov 2009 19:45
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I've got a reply from TGC regarding ragdolls and skinned models.
Well, it's not what you call good news:

Quote: "I'm afraid it's not a feature of the current software build."


That's all they wrote, so I guess that's it for the built-in commands.

Maybe we can still figure out how to make it manually...
The basics are there: skinned models can be deformed with DarkGDK's native offset/rotate limb commands, and the ragdoll can be build with normal rigid bodies and sphere/revolute joints.
Just need to figure out how to combine them together.

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Chenak
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Posted: 24th Nov 2009 01:59
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If thats the case I want my damn money back. We were promised these features and that the plugin will excel beyond newtons physics plugin, but so far most of the features have been extremely lacking.

Haven't TGC also said they will NOT be updating dark physics? Sorry but this is beyond a joke.
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_Pauli_
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 19:15
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Yes, I'm very angry about that too! I paid about 50€ for this plugin and half of the stuff isn't working properly!

Plus they don't mention a word about the fact, that if you want to distribute your game to others they have to download these stupid 70mb Nvidia drivers!!!

Now the plot thickens, the fps decreases, and the awesomeness goes through the roof.
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entomophobiac
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Posted: 27th Nov 2009 10:26
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Quote: "Plus they don't mention a word about the fact, that if you want to distribute your game to others they have to download these stupid 70mb Nvidia drivers!!!"


Isn't it enough to just put the .DLL-files in the right folder and package it with the application?

I wrote a simple simulation for a friend a while ago and all he had to do was copy the folder with the executable and DLLs in them in order to use it.

It doesn't defend the stuff that doesn't work, of course, but it's at least something.
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_Pauli_
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Posted: 27th Nov 2009 14:15
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Quote: "Isn't it enough to just put the .DLL-files in the right folder and package it with the application?"


Well, I know they're necessary too. But I thought people would still need those Ageia/Nvidia drivers. I heard that people who allready have a Nvidia graphics card don't need to download extra drivers.
I can't really test it, because I have no system here that has not the drivers installed already...

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entomophobiac
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Posted: 27th Nov 2009 23:07
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Those files are all you need, if you don't want to accelerate the physics process. And if you do, you're likely to already have the drivers installed to begin with, as it comes with the graphics card's other drivers these days.

At least that's what I've been led to believe.
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