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Intel Competition / [Intel Comp 2010] Chewy's Entry (Attack on Mars)

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Chewy
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Posted: 6th Aug 2010 19:32 Edited at: 6th Aug 2010 19:35
Hi guys,

I attempted the PhysX comp in 2008 and got recognized in the TGC newsletter which was kinda cool. So I thought I would make another appearance within the community and develop a game for this Intel competition.

It's called Attack on Mars and is set in the future. Mankind has managed to start growing algae/grass on parts of Mars in an attempt to make it habitable. However, upon terraforming, they have alerted an alien race which use to inhabit Mars and guess what, they are not very friendly, they want their home planet back and it is the players job to fend off the attacks.

The game is a top down kind of shooter, well slightly not top down to spice things up a bit and so the 3D work can clearly be seen.

Terrain is all built along with sky box, just finishing looping the terrain so it will go on and on until the game over scenario.

I'll post some screenies up this weekend.

Good luck to everyone else who will be participating =)


[EDIT] quick question, is it easier to use the arrow keys on a netbook or WASD?

The control system will be as simple as spacebar to shoot and WASD/Arrow keys to move or maybe the trackpad to move, not sure yet.

MjMAC
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Melancholic
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Posted: 6th Aug 2010 20:15
Nice idea, i look forwould to seeing how it turns out

Also I would opt for WASD instead of arrow keys as arrow keys are usually cramped to make space for other keys, such as wasd which will see more use then the arrow keys.


I can count to banana...
Daniel TGC
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Posted: 6th Aug 2010 22:10
I'd just had a play around with my mums new Toshiba NB200, the WASD keys are larger then the arrow keys. But have a good think about it, one of the competitions judging criteria's is:

Simplified Controls - There's no mouse or joystick on a netbook. Trackpads are small, keyboards tend to be crowded, and screen real estate is precious. Good netbook games take this into consideration and design the game for simple inputs from the trackpad

So perhaps you can come up with a control concept that would work well under those circumstances.

Also, remember that Netbooks are low powered devices, ranging between 1.2mhz and 1.66mhz, typically with intel, or nvidia ion based chipsets. So you're game needs to work well at low speeds.
Melancholic
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Posted: 6th Aug 2010 22:17
Quote: "Also, remember that Netbooks are low powered devices, ranging between 1.2mhz and 1.66mhz, typically with intel, or nvidia ion based chipsets."


1.2MHZ to 1,6MHZ? I didnt know netbooks were weaker then a altair 8800... i think you mean ghz


I can count to banana...
Chewy
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Posted: 6th Aug 2010 23:29
I should be able to test it out on my mums netbook to see if it all works. hopefully it will, will ensure it's low poly and all that.

I know last time I had a problem with the fps running on slower machines, so I have been developing with that in mind at the moment.

MjMAC
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The Slayer
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Posted: 7th Aug 2010 02:20
Quote: "So you're game needs to work well at low speeds. "

How low is 'low'?
Is 60 FPS too fast or not?

My game BRIXOID will be finished completely in a few days. I'm just adding the finishing touch and testing it thoroughly.

Quote: "Simplified Controls - There's no mouse or joystick on a netbook. Trackpads are small, keyboards tend to be crowded, and screen real estate is precious. Good netbook games take this into consideration and design the game for simple inputs from the trackpad"

The Options Screen in my game is programmed completely for the mouse (or controlpad), so I hope that isn't a big problem? The rest of the game can be controled with the keys.

Cheers

Slayer rules!!! Yeaaah, man!
Melancholic
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Posted: 7th Aug 2010 02:35
@The Slayer, if im not mistakend, you have been working o Brixoid for some time. I think you can only enter games specifically made for this compo


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Mnemonix
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Posted: 7th Aug 2010 13:16
@Melancholic - It does not specify this in the rules.

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Melancholic
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Posted: 7th Aug 2010 13:39
@Mnemonix, then why would there be a competition opening date?. If you are allowed to enter any project youve been working on, then this it is not really a fair competition is it?

Could we get some clarification on this?


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The Slayer
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Posted: 7th Aug 2010 14:36
@Melancholic, the Appup competition was already running a few months ago, so why wouldn't I be allowed to enter my game?

Slayer rules!!! Yeaaah, man!
Melancholic
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Posted: 7th Aug 2010 15:44
Quote: "@Melancholic, the Appup competition was already running a few months ago, so why wouldn't I be allowed to enter my game?"


It was?, the dates on the website say it opened on the 4th of august


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Daniel TGC
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Posted: 7th Aug 2010 20:12
There's nothing in the rules that states a previously active project or an old finished game can not be submitted. As long as it's ready for submission and release on the Intel Atom Program.

Remember, these are games for netbooks. Not general PC's, and laptops. All designers need to pay this special attention to control, and performance on a netbook class machine.

You can make a pretty decent puzzle game, chess game, card game, or whatever in the time span we've provided. Games specifically designed from scratch may have the edge over users just slapping an old creation into the store.
Mnemonix
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 00:29
Luckily, The game I am working on and have been working on since June has been designed for appup anyway Now just to get it finished before the end of Sept.

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Chibi Babble
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 17:50
It doesn't feel like much of a competition is anyone can enter their game that they've been working on for a long time. It feels almost like cheating or at least ethically wrong. If the competition opens up on August 4th then that should me that's the date you can start making a game. Many other competitions I've entered have been that way.

If the competition isn't going to nip this in the bud then they should at least have the courtesy to point out those who are ethically challenged by labeling their game as "made prior to competition's start"

It just feels like it cheapens the competition by allowing some people more time than others.

I personally plan on starting my game now rather than using left over games (including one that is already perfect for netboooks) because it feels like it goes against common ethics of a friendly competition.

Chibi?
Mnemonix
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 18:58
Well

It was my intention to make the game for the appup store anyway, and have it finished in September so having the competition start just gives me another capacity to publicize my game. I am not cheating and I do not feel that I shouldn't enter.

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The Slayer
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 19:08 Edited at: 8th Aug 2010 19:59
Quote: "It doesn't feel like much of a competition is anyone can enter their game that they've been working on for a long time. It feels almost like cheating or at least ethically wrong. If the competition opens up on August 4th then that should me that's the date you can start making a game."

First of all, the Intel Appup competition was already running a few months ago, and that was the time that I started to make my game ready for that competition, so I'm not cheating. The initial closing date for the Intel competition was the 16th of August if I remember correctly, so mine would have been ready no matter what. Those who didn't have the time to make something before, NOW have the change to make a game, so I don't see why you're complaining???
You could also start complaining that textures or code snippets or sounds made before that date are not allowed!

Maybe it's up to the contestants that sheduled their game for the initial closing date to complain about having more competition on their hands now.

Slayer rules!!! Yeaaah, man!
Chewy
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 20:42
Completely unfair and unjustified.

Don't get me wrong, there is still a chance something can be developed over the coming months that could still have the potential to win. But it is still unfair.

I wonder if in the Olympics it's okay to jump into a race halfway through...

Understandable if there was a set starting date and a closing date which EVERYONE was aware of.

MjMAC
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Deathead
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 20:55 Edited at: 8th Aug 2010 21:06
Quote: "First of all, the Intel Appup competition was already running a few months ago, and that was the time that I started to make my game ready for that competition, so I'm not cheating."

I honestly can't remember it being a few months ago, I knew about them wanting you to help them build up their appup store, but not a competition, but I don't mind, I love extra competition.

Edit: The one that apparently started months ago wasn't even a compo it was just TGC asking if you wanted to be on Intel Appup store and TGC would help you out, but gave you a allotted time so they didn't have to keep publishing your games.
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=166752&b=1

So yeah, it is totally unfair, for us who are making games within the actual competition allotted time. You can still upload your games to their appup store, but you just got to talk with Intel, and get it published. I know it may be annoying, but there was no competition months ago, just if you wanted to be apart of a great opportunity.


The Slayer
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 22:14
Quote: "The one that apparently started months ago wasn't even a compo it was just TGC asking if you wanted to be on Intel Appup store and TGC would help you out"

Yeah, TGC asked to get our games submitted, but at the same time there were several competitions going on, and the last competition would end the 16th of August, if I'm not mistaken. They probably have delayed the final ending date.
If there wasn't already a competition going on, how do you think that TGC won $10.000 in the Best of Games award in the Intel Atom Developer Challenge???

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=173599&b=2

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Mnemonix
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 22:27
It might be unfair, but i'm not going to miss the opportunity to get my game publicized. I didn't wait for a competition to give me a reason to make a game, I just started making one with as much high quality as I could muster to sell on the appup when it is released. Not to seize this opportunity would be silly on my part.

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Chewy
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 22:34
Slayer, if you look at the rules, Rule number 2 clearly states the competition is through TGC and Intel is the sponsor. How can it be a competition Intel is running. If that is the case, not only are we competing on TGC, we are also competing against others on Intel's side of the community. Not that competition between people or communities is a bad thing.

Just if there was a starting date, it should be for everyone, regardless of community, or partner etc. Everyone should be entitled to the same amount of allotted time. It's as simple as that.

MjMAC
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The Slayer
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 23:08
Well, unless someone (by TGC or Intel) tells me I'm not allowed to compete, I'm submitting my game, it's as simple as that. I was planned to get my game submitted since Intel launched the AppUp. I've spend a lot of work and time on it, and I'm not gonna let that go to waste.
The initial date I was focussing on was the 16th of August to get it submitted and win some prizes. If someone (Intel or TGC) decided to set another ending date, then that's not my problem. Maybe you should count yourselves lucky that they prolonged the initial compo.

Slayer rules!!! Yeaaah, man!
Melancholic
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Posted: 8th Aug 2010 23:25
@The Slayer, I can understand you want to submit your game. But this competition is not the one you originally made your game for. This one opened on the 4th of august 2010

@Mnemonix, and you think you should have an unfair advantage to publicize your game over other peoples games?


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Mnemonix
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 05:26
Quote: "@Mnemonix, and you think you should have an unfair advantage to publicize your game over other peoples games?
"


No I do not, I am just taking advantage of the competition. My advantage comes from the fact that I decided to make this game on my own steam, and I have been told that I can enter it into a competition. Why should I not enter?

I agree that it is unfair that people do not get the same amount of time, but that isn't going to stop me from entering.

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Chibi Babble
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 05:45
Quote: "I agree that it is unfair that people do not get the same amount of time, but that isn't going to stop me from entering."


That is because you have a complete lack of ethics. A truly honorable person would not do such a reprehensible thing as cheat. However your morals seem to be that of a spoiled child or a thief. You'll only follow rules if they are for your personal gain.

In other words: You are a despicable person.

Chibi?
Chewy
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 06:16
Chibi, don't get me wrong mate, I do think its wrong that others might have had a head start on this if it is allowed that people can enter projects they have been working on prior to the start date.

But please, there is no need to ignite a flame war and start saying things about other people. It's not going to get anyone anywhere and its not going to end well. Forums are for constructive criticism. I think if this is such an issue for people, a moderator or member of TGC is going to be needed to help clarify. In the end of the day, it is their competition and that of Intels.

Aside from all this. In the spirit of competition, I look forward to seeing some more WIP threads like the physics competition. I have just completely removed the terrain engine with a tile system, to help performance and reduce memory size and help improve FPS. Actually helped tons!

I had a chance to download appup for my desktop and had a browse, not that there is many 3D games that I could find on there, but the ones I did come across were very very basic and low end 3D. Not quality, just in terms of poly count and things like that. So I took a step back and decided to ensure I reduced everything.

I think I am looking at around 200 fps at the moment on my desktop (see specs in sig) at the moment it's eating up about 45MB of memory, it was around 150 odd when I used heightmaps and so on. I'll be looking to reduce it further down the line.

I did promise to upload some screenies, but because I drastically changed things, there is not a lot to show off.

=)

MjMAC
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Chibi Babble
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 06:23
No flame war needs to start. The rules only need an update to make sure people with low morals aren't tempted

Chibi?
Melancholic
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 09:12
We really should move this discussion somewhere else as its not fair on Chewy to hijack his thread. I’m going to send TGC an email and make them aware of this.

As for the your entry Chewy, it sounds good. Love to see some screenshots of what ill be competing with. But I would be worried about your framerates, 200 fps may seem good but a netbook will be ¼(minimum) of the power of the desktop you have. Bear in mind also that Intel graphics are the worst kind, and you cant really compare them to your two 8800's


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entomophobiac
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 10:06
I think this is somewhat ridiculous. Not just the fact that I'm writing after saying I'll leave this place for good, which is pathetic in its own right. Mostly, this:

If you shouldn't use stuff you've already made, how about using stuff others have made? Plugins, ready-made code, tutorials, etc?

What about assets you've done but never used, etc. Is that also unethical?

This is just how software development works, and especially tools like the ones TGC make. They're all about taking shortcuts.
baxslash
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 13:49
I hope that we can all just try to come up with the best games we can and appreciate everyone's efforts!

Also I think you can forget about the rule you have 'invented' saying entries started before 4th August are not valid. TGC have said it's OK and frankly any competition of this type when refering to an "Open Date" is refering to the date when entries are allowed to be submitted from. End of story.

Please try to keep this thread for the intended purpose.

Chewy
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 14:56
Melancholic, yeah, well 60 FPS would be ace, but you have to remember 30FPS is roughly the minimum needed to any kind of animation to be picked up by a human to look natural and not juttery.

A nice list of some games tested on netbook: http://netbook-gaming.co.uk/

MjMAC
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Mnemonix
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 15:54 Edited at: 9th Aug 2010 15:59
Quote: "That is because you have a complete lack of ethics. A truly honorable person would not do such a reprehensible thing as cheat. However your morals seem to be that of a spoiled child or a thief. You'll only follow rules if they are for your personal gain.

In other words: You are a despicable person."


How dare you. I have been part of this community for nearly 8 years now, I have been learning this stuff for nerly 11 years. I have not once sold anything or otherwise made any money from my work. I have attempted to just better and better myself. I have finally found some kind of gap which I can push my work into and you are calling me despicable and unethical for this? At least I could be bothered to start making a high quality game when there was no competition. I have worked damn hard to this day and I am going to enter. I do not appreciate unwarranted personal attacks.

Also, how am I cheating? If you are really unhappy about the whole situation, make a new post, asking for the rules to be changed and then I won't enter.

Also, apologies to Chewy for the hijacking of this thread. I had to defend my actions though.

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baxslash
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 16:00
Quote: ""That is because you have a complete lack of ethics. A truly honorable person would not do such a reprehensible thing as cheat. However your morals seem to be that of a spoiled child or a thief. You'll only follow rules if they are for your personal gain.

In other words: You are a despicable person.""

I can't believe that @Mnemonix is the first person to comment on this as abusive and against forum rules. I would hit the abuse button if I were you mate...

Mnemonix
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 16:12
I'm not really bothered, I don't wish to make enemies. I am glad that I have managed to conduct my forum life thus far without having to descend to low levels of personal abuse. I'm just trying to make my way in this world of indie games and I have worked many years at it and made precious little from it, but the time has come when I want to try and turn it into my career, so I simply have to take the opportunities as they come. I did it when TGC wanted a game for the appup back in March, and I made a full game from scratch by April which was good enough to win $500. Two months is ample time to create something that will compete against my entry. Arguing about it is not going to help, if he feels that strongly about it he should go to TGC and get them to change the rules and close off my opportunity out of spite, regardless of how much work I have put in. He will then no doubt fail to complete his entry anyway.

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Mnemonix
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 17:38
Quote: "No flame war needs to start. The rules only need an update to make sure people with low morals aren't tempted "


If the rules were changed, because you have annoyed me so much, I would start a new game from scratch, complete it within the alloted time frame and make it ten times better than yours.

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baxslash
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 17:39 Edited at: 9th Aug 2010 17:44
Fair enough. I just don't like it when it gets personal over something ambiguous... besides which I already said the final word on the subject and I am ALWAYS right... when I'm not wrong.

Good on you for rising above it.

EDIT: There you were rising above it and then you posted while I was typing...

Mnemonix
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 17:45
He has just rattled my cage so much. I don't know what i'm supposed to do now. I have high moral standards and I am tempted to make a whole new game for this competition just so I can enter. Problem with that is we need to get our current game finished by mid september anyway ideally to tie in with the launch of appup, and starting a new game now would push us back and I don't think its worth doing that out of spite.

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baxslash
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 17:52
My suggestion is you just finish the game you are working on as the rules have been set and your existing game does not fall outside those rules.

How could they possibly enforce or even check a rule that says "Your game must not contain any code written before 4th August" anyway? It's a joke that anyone considers that plausible!!

Mnemonix
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 17:58
The problem is, he is taking moral high ground against me and I feel the need somewhat to now prove that I can develop a game in 2 months that is high enough calibre for this competition.

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baxslash
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 18:07
I'm sure you can

Personally I would have reported the abuse and then nailed it home by trying to win with the existing game, or at least having it allowed as an entry. Maybe I just like proving my point in stronger terms to people who are abusive to me.

Maybe I'll enter an old game to prove the point and you can have the higher moral highground.

Maybe I need some anger management therapy...

Sorry for being so off topic for so long on your thread Chewy!! I'll stop now.

Daniel TGC
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 19:09 Edited at: 9th Aug 2010 19:13
I'd just like to put this in perspective.

Most experienced programmers, keep their old games. They keep a library of their old functions, as well as old media. I personally have a project folder littered with many functions, old examples, and half finished projects. I could happily throw together a working game within 2 weeks thanks to this material. Heck if I wanted to make a few smaller scale entries, such as retro styled games (asteroid's, space invaders, an r-type clone), I could probably do it in 2 days.

Should I (well obviously not me, I can't enter ), or anyone else be disallowed because they have a history of previous projects? We've all done space invader, lander, asteroid, made attempts at FPS, 3rd person games, text adventures. etc etc.

Any good programmer, will have years of source code, old half written idea's, graphics, and even completed games that could easily be modified to look like something else.

While it is entirely possible that someone might throw out a first time game, and win this competition. It's more likely that a more experienced member of the community, who's been producing games for a long time, is going to win the competition.

If I was entering this competition right now, I'd have a nice little Starship Commander clone I've been working on and off on for ages. I have various versions of space invaders, a 3d space flight sim I was developing for the nVidia competition before I was employed by TGC.

So why should I, or anyone else be denied entry into the competition, simply because they are organized, experienced, project developers? Ultimately, that's what every home developer on this website should be aiming to be.
Chewy
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 22:06
Okay, it doesn't look like much yet, but in terms of gameplay, most of the input mechanics is done, like movement etc.

When the ship moves left and right it banks gradually and so on.

Tiles repeat continuously and consist of 2 different models for variation.

The player ship needs a remodel as I need to lower the poly count dramatically.

I am aiming to keep within 5k polys. That's even with enemy ships.

I have also implemented some other gameplay features which I wont reveal yet as they are what makes this different to its genre.

textures will get a makeover later too as I need to compress them further and I would like to make them look a lot better than they currently are.

MjMAC
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Melancholic
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Posted: 9th Aug 2010 23:44 Edited at: 9th Aug 2010 23:46
With some polished up graphics and a nice UI, I can see this being a very nice game


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Posted: 11th Aug 2010 02:25 Edited at: 11th Aug 2010 02:26
Guys, guys,

The idea that you couldn't use code written before the 4th Aug is crazy?! I mean, I have a code base of stuff that I use to startup every project - screen settings, object handlers etc. If I didn't cut and paste, I'd just re-write the same thing anyway!

It's not a case of morals. If you've already got code written that will help you to make the game then good for you, it doesn't mean you've got low morals, it doesn't make you a cheat, it just means that you have written more code that someone else.

Put it this way; if you had a game that ran perfectly well on a netbook, would you sit there and copy out the code again into a blank DBA file? No, you'd just enter the game. Re-writing a bunch of stuff you've already written from scratch doesn't make you morally a better person, it makes you stupid for wasting your own time.

-edit, sorry, I didn't realise that there was a second page. the above had already been said

I want robotic legs.
The Slayer
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Playing: (Hide and) Seek and Destroy on my guitar!
Posted: 13th Aug 2010 21:51
Well, Chewy, although we've started on the wrong foot, I sincerely wish you the best of luck with your game! I'm sure it will be a great game that everyone will love to play. Keep it up!

Slayer rules!!! Yeaaah, man!
Chewy
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Posted: 13th Aug 2010 23:20
Hey thanks Slayer,

I have been rather ill past few days, caught some bloody virus or bug going around and I have been struggling to work on my own project work let alone for the competition.

I have made some more progress though and received some feed back on the current frame rate of the game.

I just got hold of a netbook from a member of my family too, so I'll be playing about with it this weekend as much as I can if I am not in bed sleeping lol.

Advent
Intel Atom CPU (N270)
Windows XP
1024MB DDR2 RAM

I also have started working on designing a much simpler game idea too, which I'll be creating a thread for within next week =) Something a bit more casual etc =)

MjMAC
---------------------------
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 2.4GHz | 2 x XFX 8800GTs Alphadog (SLi) | 4GB RAM
Chewy
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Posted: 13th Aug 2010 23:43
Okay this is rather interesting. I am getting 60 FPS on this little netbook. But to achieve it I had to go into windows task manager and disable some of the bumpf that ships with the laptop along with some of the processes such as MSN messenger etc. That was only to free up memory.

Is it possible to ship a readme with the games to ensure the players close other applications and things in order to play? lol

MjMAC
---------------------------
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 2.4GHz | 2 x XFX 8800GTs Alphadog (SLi) | 4GB RAM
Daniel TGC
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Posted: 14th Aug 2010 03:37
You could always add a menu option in the game called "Netbook Optimization" or something. Provide some kind of graphic, video or text instruction recommending the disabling of virus checkers, background processes, and other background applications in the game performance is choppy.

To be honest I think this should be standard with anyone trying to develop on lower end machines. I've been playing Civilization 4 on my netbook recently, and disabling AVAST, made all the difference in the world.

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