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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Dark Basic Elite - A Question

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LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
24
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Joined: 21st Jan 2000
Location: England
Posted: 27th Jul 2012 15:53
Hi Guys and Gals,

I have a quick question for you. I think we'll all agree that over the years DBP has been steadily dropping in price to the point where the basic version is free and the 'super bundle' is an amazingly low price. I have been tinkering with the idea of giving the language and compiler an overhaul (Latest DirectX, Faster Multi-Core Compiling, New Commands, Building-in Modules as Core Commands) but the only way the work can be justified is that we offer it as a new premium $99 product (working title: Dark Basic Elite).

My question is whether the community would back such a move, and more specifically whether some of you would buy such a product. With a million Windows PC's sold every day, Dark Basic is as indispensable as ever for creating Windows applications and games, and as ever, it's the community that decides where we go next.

A new product would also ensure more energy goes into legacy bug fixing of the existing engine (fixes will be backward compatible if you chose not to upgrade).

Have a think, and let me know what you think (briefly, so we can collect an at a glance view of opinion) - I did not have time to set up a Poll but if anyone does, I can link it at the top of this thread if you send me the link. Thanks!

Lead Developer of Dark Basic Pro, FPS Creator and AppGameKit (App Game Kit)
Green Gandalf
VIP Member
19
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Joined: 3rd Jan 2005
Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 27th Jul 2012 16:17
I'd definitely pay for it. Count me in.
paul5147
18
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Joined: 11th Jan 2006
Location: Hot & Sunny
Posted: 27th Jul 2012 16:29 Edited at: 27th Jul 2012 19:06
Sounds like a great idea,its all ready a great easy to use product, but a bit of modernization wouldnt hurt,put me down for a copy.
Duffer
21
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Joined: 9th Feb 2003
Location: chair
Posted: 27th Jul 2012 18:54
I'd back it in a heartbeat. Count me in.

Coming at even all the basic commandset again, fresh eyes, it would be brilliant.

I'd pay $99 for that.

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
MrValentine
AGK Backer
13
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Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 27th Jul 2012 19:45
I would not pay $99 for it no...

I would however Pay £99 if that made a difference...

Count me in for an upgrade...

Could not care less about sticking to old editions... I like my UPDATES!!!

I would very much welcome THREAD SAFE environments with DBP as well as a fixed HTTP system, multi-core compiling is welcome too... Latest DirectX is always going to be welcome...

Hard to think of more specifics that need fixing other than the HTTP PORT 80 and THREAD SAFE environments for compiled apps... [meaning multi-core enabled games/apps not just the compiling stage...]

Aside from the above, and the other mentioned bugs fellow users mention, I am more than happy with the above mentioned as a feasible change to call a payable upgrade...

to summarise:

Multi-Core Compiling
Multi-Core Enabled Applications
Fixed HTTP port 80 [as well as port 443]
DirectX features and pipeline, at least DX 10 if not 11...
An integral simple to use GUI system for basic menus and message boxes
Windows 7 Certification [I know that is pushing it but... you guys deserve it!]
A ITGC T-Shirt with every order!
Price Mark £99 not $99...

and then some more TGC magic and I am more than happy...

Andrew_Neale
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Location: The Normandy SR-2
Posted: 27th Jul 2012 19:50 Edited at: 27th Jul 2012 19:54
Count me in as well. I've done quite a bit of work now with C++ / C# but always come back to Dark BASIC in the end. There is just something about it. I've been using it since 2003, which in my view makes it quite remarkable, as I don't think there is any other piece of software that I could honestly say I've used for as long and this 'elite' version should easily keep it going for quite a bit longer. I don't know if this is something you were considering, but I'd be willing to pay in advance to help back the development.

[Edit] Just to agree with MrValentine, I too would be willing (and almost would have expected) to pay a higher price. I think anything up to £150 and I wouldn't even have to think twice about committing. Thinking about it, $99 is actually pretty low. Not that I'm complaining. [/Edit]


Previously TEH_CODERER.
Juggernaut
12
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Joined: 12th Mar 2012
Location:
Posted: 27th Jul 2012 20:15
Hello Mr. Lee,

I have a few questions to ask you ( if you do care to answer in fact) :

1. Will this new "Elite" product line have a C++ counterpart -
like we have Dark GDK 1.0/2.0 for the existing Dark Basic Pro
U77 version ? Or is it just for the BASIC language and no C++ ?

2. Will it be real good in performance while displaying hundreds of animated characters (~3k poly count each) ? Currently we are using "Fast Bone shader" to overcome this deficiency.

3. What about physics ? Will it be integrated into the core ? Or do we have to buy and use plugins as we do now ? If the PHYSICS is integrated into the core - will it accompany the feature set that is available in "Dark Dynamix" ?

4. Will it have occlusion culling built into the core ( apart from back face and frustum culling ?

5. Will it have an easy to use paging terrain system ?

6. Will it have an inbuilt material system along with a material editor ?

7. Will it have a world editor or game level editor with full lighting capabilities ?

8. Will it have in built facility to use per pixel lighting without having to manually assign shader effects on object surfaces ?

9. Will it have a particle editor with a set of canned particle effects, ready to be used in the game ?

10. Will it have a graphical shader editor (better than Dark Shader) with a set of ready to use shaders - not just handful that we get now in Dark Shader ?

11. Will there be a set of eye-candy effects that we get to see in other indie engines like say God Rays, Easy sky system with day / night lighting cycle, Easy to create realistic water bodies / surfaces with realistic light scattering effect when the camera goes beneath the water plane ?

12. Will there be a new advanced lighting system ( Global illumination, ambient occlusion ) and a more effective shadow system - dynamic soft shadows, mapped shadows etc ?

13. Why are you going for DirectX 11, why not OpenGL 4 and give us a language that can deploy applications for MAC, Windows and Linux desktops ? AppGameKit seems more geared towards mobile devices rather than desktops.

Lastly - the persons who are currently buying Dark Game Studio bonanza pack along with the associated plugins - what will be the cost for them ?

If you do care to answer these - we will be happy (I guess).

Thanks,
tiresius
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Location: MA USA
Posted: 27th Jul 2012 21:18
Mr. Bamber-
I bought my DBpro copy at version 3.1 for $100 ten years ago. That is a fair price for a new DBPro version which has the qualities you propose. I would pay that amount again if I had plans to develop in DirectX 10 and beyond. And I'm sure it would be a good move for the company both financially, and for gaining more support from the TGC community here.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
Todd Riggins
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Location: Texas, USA
Posted: 28th Jul 2012 00:26
<Rant>

It's to late. The merging of any inhouse versions of DBPro with the latest U77 and completing the bug fixes you guys said you would fix should have already been done. Period. You guys had plenty of time. No excuses.

And you never gave us, a proper way to deal with a lost device.
And you never fix'd the sound volume control to allow me to actually change the volume of the sound finally. Yes, your sound volume algorithm, yes the actual algorithm code itself, yes I know im being cheeky here, doesn't work for my sound blaster cards. It's either sound on or off. * Yes, obviously it somehow works for you and other people, but not for me and at least one other person who actually voiced his problem with it too. Link: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=175929&b=15&msg=2144073#m2144073
DROP DirectPlay! Compile DBPro with the Latest and Greatest Version of DirectX 9. Really? Somebody somehow needs an obsolete network library call DirectPlay? Make it a third party dll. Don't make DBPro suffer for it. DirectPlay is the only thing holding you back to have DBPro have the latest and greatest in DX9 technology.

So... yes, I would have backed the move if DBPro was already solid. But the lack of your enthusiasm to fix bugs and allow bugs to last for years upon years... I mean Why would I want to wait 8+ more years for DBPro Elite to get fix'd?

Seriously, stick with AGK. Have something your enthusiastic about... something that you will luv and nurture and take care of.

</Rant>

Please don't get me all to much wrong. I know people are mostly nice here and great at helping each other out and stuff. It's a great community. I'm usually the shy one and come out every so often to show or voice something ( and every now and then somebody will pick fun at me like GG, but it's all good ) But now... now I will "wait" again, to see how things turn out.

Bye.

ExoDev.Com - A Game Development Tools Website! Featuring: XBOX360 CONTROLLER LIBRARY
Mikko
21
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Joined: 25th Sep 2002
Location: Finland
Posted: 28th Jul 2012 02:14
I bought my first DB in 1999

I will buy Elite version, if it has a good old fashion
big manual included with inspiring comments.

I say this because I found myself reading the old AMOS manual
again.

Manuals should make you think, there´s some magic in every
command.

Thanks,
Mikko

mikko_ketonen( )hotmail.com
MrValentine
AGK Backer
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Playing: FFVII
Posted: 28th Jul 2012 02:24 Edited at: 28th Jul 2012 02:25
Oh nice one... Always forget the screen invalid issue...

Yeah very much need that fixed...

Pretty please!!!

Virtual Nomad
Moderator
18
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Joined: 14th Dec 2005
Location: SF Bay Area, USA
Posted: 28th Jul 2012 02:32
while i've enjoyed ~7 years as a novice/hobby programmer with DBPro, there's been a lot of frustration throughout. from poor documentation to niggling, persistent bugs, it wears. and, i put a lot of weight in the fact that many of the more advanced dbpro users have moved on because of the same.

with that, i know the "next generation" would enjoy the next generation of dbpro. and, especially so if some of the "wrongs" were righted from the start. in the meantime, should there be a time, i'll be right next to the above waiting to see how it turns out.

Virtual Nomad @ California, USA . DBPro V7.5
AMD Phenom™ X4 9750 Quad-Core @ 2.4 GHz . 8 GB PC2-6400 RAM
ATI Radeon HD 3650 @ 512 MB . Vista Home Premium 64 Bit
Marvey
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 03:31
i bought my dbpro in 2001..
for sure i will pay $99 for darkbasic Elite.
Just a question will the actual code running on my dpro will run in darkbasic elite? i hope so.
Now waiting for darkbasic elite!
James H
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Location: St Helens
Posted: 28th Jul 2012 06:03 Edited at: 28th Jul 2012 21:15
hmmm honestly not sure - Ive found DBP & DBC to be my prime source of entertainment over the past 12 years.
Currently Im more than happy with DBP, I just worked out I can have the vegetation I want in Evolveds Advanced Lighting water and LOD terrain demo(didnt know what a draw call was, never heard of it, found out the other day, so I applied some serious batching(HLOD) with DLOD and although tests where simple Im confident I can move on now I know what a draw call is and its limits on my card - 9600GT, it can handle close LOD models of 25k poly meshes - app 100 trees in frustrum at any time 30 fps tested with additional spot light, 5x col_z and smoke particles... full settings incudling SSAO, except card settings set for performance with vsync on )
So for the near future Im happy enough on X9, BUT I think you should carry on, DBP needs to progress for when x9 is on its way to becoming a thing of the past, the in-house version of X10 is ok but it lacks a lot of, well - everything, and a makeover would be real nice. Right now I wouldnt buy it unless I had money and nothing to spend it on(though Id get a new gfx card first) but at some point not in the near future I would certainly buy it though it has to be said again - give us some proper documentation this time please - even if the helpfiles where always accurate I honestly dont feel they are enough on there own anyway. Imagine you were me and you go through months of having internet then months of not having it - can take me a long time to find something out just using the helpfiles!! I feel there is a lack of context in terms of learning - what attracted me to DBP was I could easily build a 3d environment, then I wanted better 3d environments, I knew it would be a lot to learn, problem was that there was always a massive lack of information/direction to learn from; the forums are great but they dont suffice if a)you dont always have the ability to access or b)you dont like to ask for help because youve already been told what your trying to do isnt possible but you thought youd go for it anyway.. well, ok perhaps a) is my only valid point, the other gripe I had about X9 was the shaders, I think no additional purchase of DS should have been required to learn - and no I dont think we should have to decipher sdk helpfiles instead(even with DS I end up doing this), X10 will be a big jump to learn from X9 Im guessing so please please please provide some decent documentation for all shader models at least at a basic level, in laemens with a thorough overview to help keep things in context
Having said all that you have IMO made an excellent product - among many - realistically I think though for me its enough for the time being, Ive spent a lot of time with it in its current state rewriting programs over and over just to progress my knowledge of its capabilities so I dont fancy starting from scratch in a new product if there are too many changes affecting what Ive wrote so far
and I somehow doubt I have the capability of rewriting Evolveds AL shaders in X10/11 lol, I barely have a grasp of the X9 version. Some of us will want to do that work but I suspect most of us wont, I cant speak for anyone else, but all I ever wanted was to be able to build nice large outdoor environments with lights, shadows and water with the option of additional effects EASILY, before I start actually coding a game in that environment. Perhaps that was just me hoping for too much, but now Im much nearer to that goal, so Id only be willing to move on to elite if a full shader system similar to adv lighting by Evolved still worked or a replacement provided. Its something I do in my spare time as a hobby although I do put a lot of time in on it, I simply dont have the kind of time or capability to take care of every aspect of game environment in this way - which is why I bought plugins and use free plugins for as much as possible

Anyway to summise, yes go for it - no I wont purchase any time soon, but yes I most definatley will purchase as some point, if I have spare cash then it will be straight away just cos I like your products otherwise it will be at some point over the next year..price seems fine for whats on offer

EDIT: oops meant 400 trees with close LOD at 22k meshes for 4 trees @ 5-6k each, 100 is the number objects used for draw calls, have actually had 900 trees, with grass and bushes..though my DLOD sucks!

EDIT2: screenies on this page to download
https://forumfiles.thegamecreators.com/download/2379436
Kezzla
15
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Location: Where beer does flow and men chunder
Posted: 28th Jul 2012 08:44
put me down for pre-order I'd love a new supercharged DX11 DBPro.

Reading this announcement has made my day!

I'm in.

do it, do it, do it, do it, do it!

Sometimes I like to use words out of contents
miso
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Location: Budapest, Hungary, 127.0.0.1
Posted: 28th Jul 2012 09:29 Edited at: 28th Jul 2012 09:36
I think most of the "oldtimers" reached the limits of current dbpro. The new product shall be a success to them, if it allows more "low level hacking". Of course, the easy to use commands should stay for the new costumers. ( they will use them until they get more experience, but after, if they cant do the optimization they've figured out, they might turn toward c++ to create a plugin to solve it. Some of them switch language later. People learns quickly what a frustum or cross product, threads, etc. is. Thats my opinion, and I might be wrong of course.)

Still, dbpro is the best solution for prototyping a game now, because of the extremely short developement time. (compared to other languages.)

I'm not making a wishlist here, I just say I'd buy a new product, if it had more low level access compared to DBPro.

No place like 127.0.0.1 .
GreenDixy
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Location: Toronto
Posted: 28th Jul 2012 09:36
i would never be able to buy it

======================================
My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
MrValentine
AGK Backer
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Playing: FFVII
Posted: 28th Jul 2012 09:52
I just want to add here...

What are the chances for a Subscription based DBP? I think it would secure the future further development of DBPand aid it in becomming modernised...

I still would pay an up front licence fee of £99 (not $99) and then a voluntary donation based subscription of say £3-5 a month... Happily! Provided it made DBPro into the most easiest, most friendly, most up to date, most informative and above all detailed development suite out there... Keep it programming based though... I do not have much interest in Unity styled kits or UDK... I like the idea of building my own tools and as far as I can see... DBPro does that very well...

Anyway my rambling over with... Guys just answer the question and lets keep the feature creeping for a more dedicated thread...

miso
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Location: Budapest, Hungary, 127.0.0.1
Posted: 28th Jul 2012 10:32
@MrValentine

Theres reason in your words about subscription, but I know I cant afford monthly pays. I would always forget it.
(and im a maniac, not paying over internet. I asked my colleague where I work to buy my plugins, and I payed him in cash. Though I think I might be the only one with that phoby)

No place like 127.0.0.1 .
Morcilla
21
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Location: Spain
Posted: 28th Jul 2012 11:40
@Lee,

I will buy just for supporting TGC.

And I would pay twice for DGDK Elite, and not that messy DGDK 2.0 initiative, which I still appreciate as 'better than nothing'.

Best regards,
Manuel

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 14:05
I would rather buy Dark Basic Elite than a 3D AGK.

Chenak
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 28th Jul 2012 14:16
I'll get the elite version as long as its compatible with the plugins I use and my project works on it. It would be really nice to have some next gen features built in like deferred shading and shadows.

I'm actually not that bothered about compiling times but multithreading within dbpro itself would be a welcome feature. Its probably out of the question but maybe an ability to build a 64 bit version of the exe in order to make full use of memory would be good.

I think a way to place decals and texture splatting would be a very welcome feature too
budokaiman
FPSC Tool Maker
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Playing: Hard to get
Posted: 28th Jul 2012 15:21
Assuming that the new version will be brought over to GDK 2.0 upon completion, I would definitely buy it.


3DS friend code: 0044-2895-5474
Olby
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 16:26
I would definitely buy it if GDK 2.0 was supported. Count me in!


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0
Dar13
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 17:40
I would buy it for sure. You got me at the multi-core compiler.

29 games
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Posted: 28th Jul 2012 19:40
Yes, I would buy Dark Basic Elite but it would depend on the new commands and what modules you would build in.

Can you tell us what these might be?

In all honesty, I'm only looking for collision commands on a par with Sparky's dll. I'm quite easily pleased.

I also think the name Dark Basic Elite is awesome. You should keep it.
The Slayer
Forum Vice President
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Playing: (Hide and) Seek and Destroy on my guitar!
Posted: 29th Jul 2012 01:23
I think it's a great idea to rewrite Dbpro, and make it up to date with the latest directx capabilities.
And, I'm sure there are plenty more that feel the same.
It would also help to have a few integrated editors (world, shader, etc...), while still keeping the programming side of it.
What kinda features/commands/integrated editors would this new improved version of db have, Lee?
I would definatly consider buying the product later on, depending on what features it'll have.

Cheers

Game_Nut
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Posted: 29th Jul 2012 03:03
I would buy it if

1, no subscription fees

2, more support for multi-core cpus

3, better all round performance

4, support for direct X 10 & 11

5, better built in collision commands
Phaelax
DBPro Master
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Posted: 29th Jul 2012 23:43
I'd definitely buy it. DX11 support?

"You're not going crazy. You're going sane in a crazy world!" ~Tick
Hell_666
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Posted: 30th Jul 2012 01:39
I would buy it, it's sure

Eternal suffering ...

I'm french
Jeff Miller
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Location: New Jersey, USA
Posted: 30th Jul 2012 02:59
Like teresius, I bought DBPro for $100 or more when it was on the store shelves of a major US software/computer retailer a long time ago, and I would certainly spring for a similar amount for a more powerful product.

I have a favorite commercial game which lets you play in DX9,10 or 11. I am hoping that you are envisioning something similar as a capability for DB Elite. I would feel nervous devoting considerable time to a project that would only work, for example, on DX11, since so many people may not have graphics cards that support DX11. At the same time, I feel nervous about investing considerable time in developing a program in current DBPro because I fear that DX9 will be obsoleted. I've been hoping for a development program that allows your project to determine the highest level DX available on the user's platform, and thereby allow the programmer to account for different capabilities in the program itself. Similar to the way we test for either maximum available screen resolution with the display checklist, or check for the user's existing screen resolution if we regard that at his preference, and modify certain aspects of the program to suit, employing what you have called "scalability".
WLGfx
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Posted: 30th Jul 2012 04:55
I've only just spotted this thread although I thought it might have been an April fools but obviously we're in the wrong month.

Just a few to start off with:

Multi-threading support, DX9, DX11, Software renderer, Null renderer, and openGL (1.4 to 4.2).

A nice compiler behind it which can optimise the code output for the best speed. And maybe the support for linking your own .o (.obj) or .a (.lib) files creating a faster turnaround for plugins being created. gcc is a decent compiler for doing such stuff with.

DBP's TYPE's with METHODS added to them like Blitz basic.

If openGL support was added to it then it's possible to eventually get it running on Mac and Linux too creating a bigger market.

Mental arithmetic? Me? (That's for computers) I can't subtract a fart from a plate of beans!
Warning! May contain Nuts!
JackDawson
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Posted: 30th Jul 2012 05:08 Edited at: 30th Jul 2012 05:19
Thanks for the heads up on this WLGfx, I didn't see this...

Lee,
you can count me in. I would pay the $99 if you do as you said. Latest DirectX and Multi-Core support alone is already a point of interest for me. Not to mention, can you add the ability of x64 support, for larger then 4 gigs RAM access. I use 8 gigs minimum, but DBP limits your usage to only 4, because its a 32Bit compiler only. I been playing games that are 64 Bit lately, and they use up to 16 Gigs ram so far from what I have personally seen. In fact, I'm about to upgrade to 32 Gigs RAM soon. So please consider this as a feature request.

Quote: "
Multi-threading support, DX9, DX11, Software renderer, Null renderer, and openGL (1.4 to 4.2).

A nice compiler behind it which can optimise the code output for the best speed. And maybe the support for linking your own .o (.obj) or .a (.lib) files creating a faster turnaround for plugins being created. gcc is a decent compiler for doing such stuff with.

DBP's TYPE's with METHODS added to them like Blitz basic.

If openGL support was added to it then it's possible to eventually get it running on Mac and Linux too creating a bigger market.
"


I totally agree here. OpenGL would open this up to Mac and Linux. And methods is awesome. I bought Blitz3D and its a cool compiler. But DBP has more to it and the people on the forum are cool people, and the IDE for DBP has icon support. Blitz has NONE of the "extras". And when you ask people to add that as a feature on the Blitz forums, the reply you get back is, use a resource hacker. Uhgg. And they have no plans to upgrade their software. At least that's the answer I got when I mentioned it. so I use DBP.


Again, you have my support, thanks Lee for not giving up on us. You just made my day !!!

JackDawson
Dar13
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Posted: 30th Jul 2012 05:48
Quote: "Multi-threading support, DX9, DX11, Software renderer, Null renderer, and openGL (1.4 to 4.2)."

I'd settle for a stable DX9 and DX11 renderer. Software renderers aren't easy, and OpenGL isn't any easier than DirectX. And that range (1.4 -> 4.2) is HUGE. In there is several major architectural and API changes that break binary compatibility, nevermind expected functionality. I'm not saying that OpenGL wouldn't be nice to have, but feature creep this early in the product phase isn't a good sign.

Quote: "DBP's TYPE's with METHODS added to them like Blitz basic."

So you want an object-oriented BASIC? I'd settle for full support of UDTs(pass by value into functions, return by value from functions, maybe even pass by reference into functions), but this would be really nice to have.

Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 30th Jul 2012 06:40
I would definitely purchase DarkBASIC Elite!

-Yodaman Jer

Not contributing much of anything useful to the forums since September of 2007.
Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 30th Jul 2012 06:52
who am i kidding? i'll buy it as soon as it's (semi-)stable

Virtual Nomad @ California, USA . DBPro V7.5
AMD Phenom™ X4 9750 Quad-Core @ 2.4 GHz . 8 GB PC2-6400 RAM
ATI Radeon HD 3650 @ 512 MB . Vista Home Premium 64 Bit
AbdulAhad
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Posted: 30th Jul 2012 07:13
I would buy it. But I would kind of prefer if current users got an upgrade discount on it because a $100 is quite a bit of money. All in all I would definitely support by purchasing it!

Abdul Ahad

GreenDixy
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Location: Toronto
Posted: 30th Jul 2012 09:51
I know this is not DarkBASIC pro thread but what about the pro users, Does that mean we will no longer see updates and fix's as there is a whole thread of stuff people have posted. just a question.

======================================
My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
Olby
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Posted: 30th Jul 2012 11:54
Quote: "I know this is not DarkBASIC pro thread but what about the pro users, Does that mean we will no longer see updates and fix's as there is a whole thread of stuff people have posted. just a question."


Did you read the title post? Fixes will be backwards compatible but if you own PRO you won't get all the new features available in ELITE. Only bug fixes.


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0
Juggernaut
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Posted: 30th Jul 2012 18:56
@Olby: Do we have to look forward for new plugins or the existing ones will work with the elite version ?

Why aren't you guys pressing for an OpenGL 4.2 version with fallback capability to lower versions according to hardware support ?

Here is my point - around 26% of pc users still use Windows XP and they cannot take advantage of DirectX 11 effects as the OS does not have support for that API officially, even if they buy DX 10/11 compatible graphics card and install it.

What will benefit us all is a deployment mechanism for Windows, Mac, Linux, Flash and WebGL directly from the development (windows) pc without the need for re-compilation on other platforms. Such product already exist on the market and so this thing is feasible. Maybe the product will be 200 - 300 instead of just 99 - but it will be a worthwhile investment.

Mr. Lee can also incorporate the feature of dual rendering API - both OpenGL and DirectX.
Dar13
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Posted: 30th Jul 2012 19:39
Quote: "Mr. Lee can also incorporate the feature of dual rendering API - both OpenGL and DirectX."

I'd rather he not. Supporting dual rendering APIs is not easy, and a rock-solid renderer is better than two somewhat-working renderers like we have now.

Quote: "Why aren't you guys pressing for an OpenGL 4.2 version with fallback capability to lower versions according to hardware support ?"

Because OpenGL went through a major architectural change(similar to DX9 -> DX11 but not quite) where having an OpenGL 2.0 renderer is radically different from an OpenGL 4.2 renderer. Fallback capability is difficult to get right and increases the complexity of the underlying code by orders of magnitude.

Juggernaut
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Posted: 30th Jul 2012 19:44
Can anybody give an estimate of the development time it will need to produce Dark Basic Elite and its C++ counterpart ( Dark GDK for DX11 ) ?
Brendy boy
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Posted: 30th Jul 2012 20:02
Quote: "Can anybody give an estimate of the development time it will need to produce Dark Basic Elite and its C++ counterpart ( Dark GDK for DX11 ) ? "

if Lee implements all the features you asked we can expect dbpro elite on 1st of January, 2199

Juggernaut
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Posted: 30th Jul 2012 20:32
No. Not the ones I asked. The ones he is telling he will implement. How much time will it take ? Will there be any fallback to directx9 and directx 10 feature for running on XP and hardwares - cards that have only support upto directx 10 ?

I need to know this - because I am poised between going another way otherwise if it takes too much time.
French gui
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Posted: 30th Jul 2012 21:06
I'm in too... (No Focus Interactive joke please, you know what I mean )
Blobby 101
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Posted: 30th Jul 2012 21:20
I would happily pay for a new Dark Basic product, so long as the improvements were significant enough. For me, personally, it'd need speed/performance improvements, access to newer DX features (tessellation etc), basically a better rendering engine. Built in physics would be a huge plus after shelling out for the disaster that was dark physics as well, but I don't want to be too demanding

Juggernaut
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Posted: 30th Jul 2012 21:29
Quote: "I'm in too... (No Focus Interactive joke please, you know what I mean )"


Are you sure ? You seem running away already !
Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 30th Jul 2012 21:36
I would buy it if it ran faster on machines then dark basic pro, Faster frame rates per objects on screen. This is the bigest problem with it now.

I have a real fast machine with lots of memory now, and when I load anything with water shaders in it,it slows down 200 percent.

I think a complete rewrite would be a good idea

my signature keeps being erased by a mod So this is my new signature.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Jul 2012 22:19
Hey Lee, this is your President speaking.

Dark Basic and Dark Basic Pro have been 2 big loves in my life, because it got me into programming and I enjoyed using them. For a Dark Basic Elite, would I pay $99 for it? I think it would have to suit me for me to pay it. New features and improvements would definitely be a bonus. Given I love TGC and its community, I would want to continue supporting the company and products. However, I have stopped using Dark Basic Pro, started using Unity3D and am eagerly waiting for the release of Dark GDK 2.0 for its .NET capabilities. I do love C#, but only because it's able to do things I find very useful as a coder that Dark Basic Pro can't.

For me, I think one of Dark Basic's set back is also its strength. The language. The language is a strength because it's really simple to understand and works as a fabulous way to get people into programming and does a lot of the work so the user doesn't have to. Compare coding DBP to coding XNA, both are Direct X platforms.

It weakness is its functionality. I have fallen in love with OOP and I think it is a really sensible way of programming and helps me keep my code a lot more organised. That was my main attraction to C#. It would be interesting to see if Dark Basic Elite was capable of using the current programming model with the ability to go OOP, should you choose to. In DBP we've already got user defined types, which work in a similar manner, but only for variables.

Also, I think for anybody serious about programming looking to move up from Dark Basic Elite and maybe to C# and C++, having the ability to use OOP might be good practice for them and should help with people understanding the principles. I'll write some psuedo code I might use for an OOP Dark Basic Elite.


It's by no means a perfect representation and is probably flawed, but it's how I'm imagining it would work with DBP's current functionality, but with the added ability to use classes and have some OOP in there.

At least this is my view and this would make an ideal Dark Basic for me. This (and the other updates) would have me paying the $99 without a doubt. Without my suggestion, I'd still say there's a pretty good chance I would, I mean, I've not given up on DBP, at the moment I am working on writing a tutorial series for it - though it's not ready for me to start spamming on the forums.

Chris Ritchie
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Posted: 31st Jul 2012 22:01
I have purchased all other versions of dark basic and I would love to see dark basic elite.


Lead programmer ULIDIA

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