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Work in Progress / WOLFextra - FREE DBpro addon! Need a command??? Ask for it!

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 18:08 Edited at: 19th Feb 2007 19:48
Hello!

While working on Enhanced Animations I got DEEP into the internal object structures of DBpro. I have noticed a few stray commands missing from DBpro. The purpose of this plugin is to fill in those gaps and make the DBpro object structure a little more accessible directly from DBpro.

One very simple thing that is missing is a command to return the total number of limbs in an object. Not anymore

I noticed a post from IanT today. He needed a way to get the number of textures for each limb. Ta-da! Command added

So, if there is anything like this that you know of, please ask. I'll see what I can do to add it to the plugin.

The only thing is that I have to be careful not to step on my own toes with some of my "not-free" addons. If a requested command is part of one of those addons then I'm going to have to refer you to it.

Here is the current command list: ( 5 commands total )

WOLF_GetTotalLimbs( ObjID )
WOLF_GetLimbTextureCount( ObjID, Limb )
WOLF_RenameLimb ObjID, Limb, newName$
WOLF_SetLimbTextureName ObjID, LimbID, StageNo, newName$
WOLF_GetLimbMultiMatCount( ObjID, Limb )


I'll see what I can do to get a proper helpfile and keywords file together and keep them up to date.

Thank you to all that have purchased my products! You are the reason that I am doing this

Keep the command suggestions coming!


-Ron Erickson

EZrotate! TextureMax! Enhanced Animations! (coming soon....) 3D Character Maker! (coming soon....)

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Silvester
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 18:19
What about a command that hides all objects that are farther away then(Example) 8000 coordinates?

-Prince Of Darkness
sigi
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 18:23
I have used this command to get the numbers of limbs in an object:
PERFORM CHECKLIST FOR OBJECT LIMBS ??? Am i wrong? But your command
looks easier

AMD Athlon64 3500+ / 2 GH Ram / Geforce 6800 Ultra / WinXP Home SP2 / DX 9.c
Ron Erickson
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 18:24 Edited at: 16th Feb 2007 18:28
Quote: "What about a command that hides all objects that are farther away then(Example) 8000 coordinates?"

I don't think there is a way to know exactly how many objects are loaded (and the object numbers). There is no master list of object pointers that can be refereced that I know of. So, unfortunately, I don't think that can be done.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 18:25 Edited at: 16th Feb 2007 18:26
Quote: "What about a command that hides all objects that are farther away then(Example) 8000 coordinates?"

You can do that already, easily.

Wolf, does DBP maintain a list of objects that it is rendering currently?


Come see the WIP!
Ron Erickson
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 18:29
EDIT:
Quote: "I have used this command to get the numbers of limbs in an object:
PERFORM CHECKLIST FOR OBJECT LIMBS ??? Am i wrong? But your command
looks easier"


Yes, you CAN do that and then reference the checklist... BUT, that has to be slower than hell compared to just referecing a variable in the DBpro object that isn't exposed. This is just a more direct way of doing it.


Quote: "Wolf, does DBP maintain a list of objects that it is rendering currently?"

Not sure. That would be a good way to do it. I'll have to look and see if I can find anything.

EZrotate! TextureMax! Enhanced Animations! (coming soon....) 3D Character Maker! (coming soon....)
Silvester
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 18:34
Quote: "You can do that already, easily"


Ow,could be...i've got quite a headache so i dont think so clear...

Hell,ill just figure something out...(As goga's free DBP plugin 2.0 has an Object Distance command)

-Prince Of Darkness
Alquerian
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 18:35
This is totally awesome Wolf! I am not well enough versed with limbs and whatnot to offer any suggestions, but I am very glad you are offering this to the public. I do not know if there is anything out there yet, but is it possible to extract the texture of a limb and assign it to an image # or a bitmap?

Quit planning to make a game and make a game.
Ron Erickson
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 19:43
Quote: "but is it possible to extract the texture of a limb and assign it to an image # or a bitmap?"


I'm sure it is possible, in fact, I have started looking at it. Out of curiousity, what would you use that for?

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Ian T
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 21:04
Off the top of my head I remember from my combat system project - trying to get the camera to match the limb angle of the player's head perfectly - that there's some serious issue with limb angle commands, both absolute and relative, but I can't remember it right now . I'll see if I can figure out what's going on there and maybe there'd be a simple command to fix it.

Apart from that, only some rather unrealistic things come to mind - poly reduction and some kind of a command to split an object into multiple pieces of a certain amount of vertices. But I'll check back if poking around my old projects brings anything to mind.
Ron Erickson
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 21:15
Quote: "Off the top of my head I remember from my combat system project - trying to get the camera to match the limb angle of the player's head perfectly - that there's some serious issue with limb angle commands, both absolute and relative, but I can't remember it right now . I'll see if I can figure out what's going on there and maybe there'd be a simple command to fix it."


Let me know. I don't remember having any difficulty with the limb direction commands....

Quote: "Apart from that, only some rather unrealistic things come to mind - poly reduction and some kind of a command to split an object into multiple pieces of a certain amount of vertices."


Actually, I have thought about looking into something like this. I can assure you that it would be a VERY involved undertaking though. It would take me away from my other projects a bit too much to be free.
This plugin will be a secondary project of mine. It won't ever be my top priority, but I always like to have something else to deflect my attention to.

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Alquerian
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 21:16
I could see it as being useful when working with trees and brush and the sort Assigning a texture to a limb is simple, getting a texture from a limb isn't. It just seems logical that if you can do one that you should be able to do the other

Quit planning to make a game and make a game.
Ian T
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 21:50
Hey Wolf - the WOLF_GetLimbTextureCount expression isn't actually working quite right for me. The attached object has 12 distinct materials using I think 7 textures, as you can see if you open the .x version, but the expression returns a 1 for any limb with a texture, no matter how many textures that limb has. I get this problem with all my .dbo objects (which are the latest version). 6.2.

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 22:01
Odd... It does return the correct result (12) when I use the .x version and only 1 when using the .dbo

I'll look to see if I can find the problem???

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 22:08 Edited at: 17th Feb 2007 00:48
OK....

Fixed! There was a variable called dwTextureCount that I was using. Apparantly, that must get filled when using .x objects. The variable that I should have been using was called dwMultiMaterialCount.

I get a result of 12 textures now for the .dbo and .x object.

Grab the new version
x

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Ian T
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 22:24
Sweet! Thanks
Alquerian
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 23:06
Something I thought about is that you can't get the texture of an object, not just the limb. If you designate 0 (or something similar) as the operand, can you make it grab the texture of the object itself?

This could be useful for making baked lightmaps and the like.

Quit planning to make a game and make a game.
Alquerian
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 23:22
I know you can do this with a combination of commands, but it would be simple to offer a 'POINT LIMB (object #,Limb#,x,y,z)', so you could automatically pick and x,y,z and tell your limb to face that direction.

I don't know, having such a command might border laziness

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 23:59
I'll post more later.

There is a new version of the dll in the first post. The WOLF_GetTotalLimbs command had a typo and wasn't working correctly.

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Ian T
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 00:39
Just noticed that myself Wolf.

Alquerian, limbs start at 0, actually, but anyway I'm pretty sure that the object's texture, as in the texture you slap on it with the texture object command, will be the root limb (limb 0's) texture.
Ron Erickson
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 00:51
Quote: "I know you can do this with a combination of commands, but it would be simple to offer a 'POINT LIMB (object #,Limb#,x,y,z)', so you could automatically pick and x,y,z and tell your limb to face that direction.

I don't know, having such a command might border laziness "


Actually, there isn't a way to rotate limbs to a global angle. This is something that I am attempting to add to my animation addon. Keep an eye on Enhanced Animations for that feature

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Alquerian
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 00:57 Edited at: 17th Feb 2007 00:58
Quote: "Alquerian, limbs start at 0,"

I know this, that is why you have offset limb

Quote: "Actually, there isn't a way to rotate limbs to a global angle. This is something that I am attempting to add to my animation addon. Keep an eye on Enhanced Animations for that feature "


Sweet! I had sort of a work-around hack where I positioned an invisible box at the limb's location, pointed the box at the camera's location, then used a little math with offsets to have the limbs point at the camera It works, sort of...

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D Ogre
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 01:52
I have a few of ideas, if they are possible to do...

Changing limb pivot points. This would be handy for building objects with
DarkBasic primatives. You would also have to provide function(s) that return
the current pivot point as well.

I like Ian T's idea of breaking up a limb based object into smaller pieces. Not
necessarily into specific sizes, but make each limb a new object, or maybe save
a specific limb as .dbo file.
Agent Dink
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 07:02
I don't think you can apply alpha mapping to one limb on the fly, correct? That would be nice to have.

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The admiral
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 08:04
Better control over limbs would be great

The admiral
Alquerian
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 08:11
I have a dll that allows you to dynamically modify limb alpha data, it was made by the guy who ran accode.com, but aparently he took a very long walk... :s

I have it laying around here, even if I don't I am sure wolf could cook something up that is far superior

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 08:18
Of course this would prolly be in a retail dll if possible ... but DirectX gives surface access. If someone could give us access to hide and show surfaces instead of limbs, we could do culling alot better. Or just make a culling dll and I'll buy it.

Diggsey
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 10:28
A command to create a new object by combining two other objects while retaining textures etc. would be good.

Also a weld verts command would be nice, where it connects all vertices in a particular limb (or the entire object) together that are within the specified distance.

A glue object to limb command, which retains the object's world position.

Another more simple command could be:
1) store object information
2) retrieve object information

They would just store/retrieve a string of data, which can be referenced by the object's id. (Useful in collision checks where obj id is the only thing returned)

Ron Erickson
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 15:08
Quote: "Changing limb pivot points. This would be handy for building objects with
DarkBasic primatives. You would also have to provide function(s) that return
the current pivot point as well."


Isn't that what the offset limb commands do?

Quote: "I don't think you can apply alpha mapping to one limb on the fly, correct? That would be nice to have."

I'll look into that

Quote: "Of course this would prolly be in a retail dll if possible ... but DirectX gives surface access. If someone could give us access to hide and show surfaces instead of limbs, we could do culling alot better. Or just make a culling dll and I'll buy it."

I don't think there is much access to how things are rendered. I wonder if something like that could be done is a shader???
I'd be all for making a culling dll. Didn't you have a culling snippet in DBpro? I'll have to go look for that. Is there anything in particular that is lacking from the code that you did in DBpro or are you just looking for a dll solution to it?

Quote: "A command to create a new object by combining two other objects while retaining textures etc. would be good."

Agreed. This too is somewhat involved, but I'll have a look at it.

Quote: "Also a weld verts command would be nice, where it connects all vertices in a particular limb (or the entire object) together that are within the specified distance."

In general, I think a plugin that deals with this sort of thing in a better way than DBPro allows you natively would be good. I might investigate doing something like this.

Quote: "Another more simple command could be:
1) store object information
2) retrieve object information

They would just store/retrieve a string of data, which can be referenced by the object's id. (Useful in collision checks where obj id is the only thing returned)"

That should be easy to do! I can look at adding something like that too.



FYI, I am also starting to work on 3D Character Maker again. So, while I am going to keep working on some of the stuff here, I'll be mostly concentrating on 3DCM. There is room for both though

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Diggsey
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 15:21
Thanks, I'm glad you liked the ideas

Lost in Thought
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 22:18
Quote: "I don't think there is much access to how things are rendered. I wonder if something like that could be done is a shader???"
Yes it can, but there isn't a way that I know of to add groups to the surfaces (octrees and etc). Or rather no way to stere the list between each run of the shader. It is too slow checking one surface at a time.

Quote: "I'd be all for making a culling dll. Didn't you have a culling snippet in DBpro? I'll have to go look for that. Is there anything in particular that is lacking from the code that you did in DBpro or are you just looking for a dll solution to it?"


It can be found here:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=67369&b=6

DBP is just to slow and clunky to add proper octree lists to the checks to speed it up a bit more. And you can only do limb or object culling and not surface culling. I can make a code to break the limbs up into smaller chunks, but the more limbs you have the slower DBP runs. It needs a serious list optimization/ re-write.

Ian T
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Posted: 18th Feb 2007 01:46
Quote: "Quote: "Alquerian, limbs start at 0,"
I know this, that is why you have offset limb "


I meant the limb index goes from 0 to limb quantity-1, not 1 to limb quantity, so designating 0 as the operand of any limb command will logically effect limb 0, not the whole object
Juso
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Posted: 18th Feb 2007 11:47 Edited at: 18th Feb 2007 11:48
@Wolf

What about returning limb number when observing a limb using "pick object" or "intersect object" or something similar?
griffirr
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Posted: 18th Feb 2007 12:43
How about something like

WOLF_SetLimbName( ObjID, LimbID, LimbName$ )
WOLF_SetLimbTextureName( ObjID, LimbID, TexName$ )

WOLF_SetLimbTextureName would allow changing the texture paths when saving an object. Current method is to save and reload the texture then re-texture the limb (slow).

WOLF_SetLimbName is just missing. However, there is a command in one of IanM utility plugins that does just this.

Can't wait to try the animation plugin when it comes out.
Keep up the good work.
Ron Erickson
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Posted: 18th Feb 2007 14:27
Quote: "What about returning limb number when observing a limb using "pick object" or "intersect object" or something similar? "

In all honesty, I haven't used "pick object" and "intersect object" much (That is what I get for always working on tools instead of games ). I'll have to investigate those commands a bit to see what can be done.

Quote: "How about something like

WOLF_SetLimbName( ObjID, LimbID, LimbName$ )
WOLF_SetLimbTextureName( ObjID, LimbID, TexName$ )

WOLF_SetLimbTextureName would allow changing the texture paths when saving an object. Current method is to save and reload the texture then re-texture the limb (slow).

WOLF_SetLimbName is just missing. However, there is a command in one of IanM utility plugins that does just this.

Can't wait to try the animation plugin when it comes out.
Keep up the good work. "


I included a command to rename limbs in the animation addon, so it was easy to add a command to this to do the same thing. That command is added:

WOLF_RenameLimb ObjID, Limb, newName$

I will look at adding the other command:
WOLF_SetLimbTextureName( ObjID, LimbID, TexName$ )

After I do that, I'll release a new version of the dll.

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Ian T
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Posted: 18th Feb 2007 16:46
I think the DKShop addons already have a pick limb command
Ron Erickson
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Posted: 18th Feb 2007 21:00
OK... version 3 is done now. It includes 2 new commands.

WOLF_RenameLimb ObjID, Limb, newName$
WOLF_SetLimbTextureName ObjID, LimbID, StageNo, newName$

I'll post more later.
See the first post to download the dll.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 18th Feb 2007 21:13
Very cool

Access to the internal list of objects being rendered would be phenomenal, and would have so many uses. It would allow us to process everything on screen without having to iterate through a massive number of objects. That would simplify culling, distance checks, resources management, etc.

DBP can tell you what's on screen with the command 'Object In Screen'. It is very fast, so I suspect that it is simply accessing some pre-built information. Access to this information in the form of a dynamic array would be wonderful


Come see the WIP!
Ron Erickson
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Posted: 18th Feb 2007 21:17
Quote: "Access to the internal list of objects being rendered would be phenomenal, and would have so many uses. It would allow us to process everything on screen without having to iterate through a massive number of objects. That would simplify culling, distance checks, resources management, etc.

DBP can tell you what's on screen with the command 'Object In Screen'. It is very fast, so I suspect that it is simply accessing some pre-built information. Access to this information in the form of a dynamic array would be wonderful "


That does sound VERY useful. I have been thinking about LIT's idea of a better culling system and your suggestion would be a very good way to start. I might have to talk to Mike a bit about that...

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The admiral
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Posted: 18th Feb 2007 23:10
It would be useful if you could tell if an object has intersected or collided with certain limbs.

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D Ogre
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Posted: 18th Feb 2007 23:13 Edited at: 18th Feb 2007 23:23
I think you misunderstood what I was getting at.

No, the limbs offset commands simply positions the limbs, but they don't directly effect
the pivot point where the limbs rotate from. DB primatives are always created with their
origins centered. To my knowledge, you can't alter an object's, or in this case, a limb's
center of rotation.

Here's what I'm talking about:


Now, of course you can simulate a "PIVOT" offset by doing a little trig., which
is demonstrated below:


Unless I'm totally off in left field, I think many would find it useful
to be able to change an object/limb pivot point for rotation.
Ron Erickson
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Posted: 19th Feb 2007 00:44
Quote: "It would be useful if you could tell if an object has intersected or collided with certain limbs."

I don't think I can invest the time in this to make a full collision system. I'm also pretty unfamilar with DBpro's collision systems (Nuclear Glory, Sparky's, and the regular DBpro collision). I have always used my own math routines to work out collision. I'm not real sure what this would involve. I can look at it in the future...

Quote: "Unless I'm totally off in left field, I think many would find it useful
to be able to change an object/limb pivot point for rotation. "


Here, try this:



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The ARRAYinator
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Posted: 19th Feb 2007 00:54
KInda off topic but when do you expect the 3dcm to be ready? Id be more than willing to pay whatever price you set for it,lol.



Ron Erickson
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Posted: 19th Feb 2007 01:26
Quote: "KInda off topic but when do you expect the 3dcm to be ready? Id be more than willing to pay whatever price you set for it,lol."

That's a good question
I really don't know yet. Right now I am completely re-doing the GUI in VB instead of in DBpro with BlueGUI. I like BlueGUI, but I have come across some things that I think will be much better done in a more "app environment" than natively in DBpro. I am just getting into this transition and I'm not sure how long it will take. After that there is still a lot of work to do...

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 19th Feb 2007 14:15
Cool man. This saved me alot of code However the number of texture stages reported here is off a bit. It reports 0 textures for an object with 2 (o and 1) and -2 for objects with no stages. Testing was done on 3dws exporter dbo's.

Ron Erickson
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Posted: 19th Feb 2007 14:25
LIT,
Can you send me the model? I can then test it better. I think it depends on how the textures are intenally applied to the mesh. There are different places and ways that it can be done (at least there is in .x files).

FYI, the error codes are this:
If the Limb is out of range, the command will return: -1
If the Limb is not a mesh (and therefore can't have a texture applied to it) it will return: -2

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 19th Feb 2007 15:16
Yeah the -1 and -2 seems to be working. Email sent with test code and media.

Brendy boy
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Posted: 19th Feb 2007 17:26
It would be good to have a command to texture a particular poligon so we can texture one limb with more than one texture(multitexturing)

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 19th Feb 2007 19:53
Quote: "Yeah the -1 and -2 seems to be working. Email sent with test code and media."


OK. Problem fixed. Sort of...
Depending on the model, the texture info can be loaded differently. There are two variables that are used as counts. One is dwTectureCount. The other is dwMultiMaterialCount.
With the media that you sent me, you want to use the command WOLF_GetLimbTextureCount.
For IanT's models that he sent me earlier, he would want to use a new command:
WOLF_GetLimbMultiMatCount

The command info and dll are in the first post of this thread....

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 19th Feb 2007 23:18
Quote: "For IanT's models that he sent me earlier, he would want to use a new command:
WOLF_GetLimbMultiMatCount"


He must be using a CShop .x file. It exports multimaterial limbs if you have more than 1 texture per brush. Several People have been having problems with these lately. I may write a converter from multimaterial to single material CShop .x files. But time is an issue as of late

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