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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / matrixes or terrains like blitz?

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Vandetta
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Posted: 8th May 2003 13:24
Just wondering if any kind of advanced matrixes or terrains were planned in the future, similar to the ones blitz uses? I know earlier it was planned but I guess it got cut will it be added in the future? Also, I know constructive solid geometry was planned too, will this ever be added as well?
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th May 2003 14:12
CSG is already implimented... as for Terrain Patchs, this is still in quite a buggy state - so you'll have to see if it is fixxed in patch5

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Rob K
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 8th May 2003 16:22
The terrains are the same as the ones Blitz' uses, but some functionality, such as altering the height of a point on the terrain, is not available yet.

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Van B
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Posted: 8th May 2003 17:37
Yeah, once the major issues are dealt with I'm hoping for some much better terrain commands, or at least enough commands to make DB terrains a viable solution for landscapes.

Blivvy has an amazing looking LOD terrain engine using memblocks, I hope he releases or sells it - there's certainly a demand!


Van-B
Bulleyes
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Posted: 8th May 2003 17:39
Hmmm.... I might sounds stupid, but what is CSG stands for? And what is it anyway? Thanks!

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emmatia
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Posted: 8th May 2003 17:41 Edited at: 8th May 2003 17:41
i always thought that blitz was a forbidden word... hmm

Darkheart
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Posted: 8th May 2003 17:48
CSG= Constructive Solid Geometery, being able to perform subtraction, addition and union operations on meshes. e.g. Creating a tunnel by subtracting a cylinder from a cube. It's quite useful as you can make complicated models from simple primitives. CSG is costly though, too slow for realtime ATM.

Both DBP and B3D have CSG although B3D's is not natively implemented.

Does Darkbasic Pro's CSG work? I've never seen anyone use it for some
reason.

Darkbasic Pro's terrians are pretty useless as you cannot adjust the LOD (which is set to lowest), cannot edit them, in fact they are really bugger all use but where a box listed feature.

Darkheart

haggisman
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Posted: 8th May 2003 18:48
DBpro doesn't have CSG implimented in the way you are thinking of, all they currently have just now is the command COMPILE CSG which converts a model to CSG so that it can be used in a more optimized way. Im sure it was mentioned somewhere that CSG operations would be implimented eventually as well...

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Vandetta
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Posted: 8th May 2003 22:35
They are already in? Where I dont see any CSG commands in the help file? I want to toy with them And whenever I make a terrain with the terrain commands it looks really jaggedy and bumpy, like a matrix with 5x5 tiles or something. Also when I use the matrix command set I can never get them to look good it always looks like some terrain from a nintendo 64 or lesser system. Any ideas? Thanks. Sorry for mentioning the forbidden word.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th May 2003 22:48
yeah you can either make your own or just leave them alone until they're fully implimented.
personally i think CSG is just a waste of time really, and it isn't there for what you believe it is.

Constructive Solid Geometry is something used within BSPs (and no doubt you've got what you think it is from within something like Worldcraft or alike) ... it is effectively the method used to build Vis leafs within a world, at this point yes you can take and add geometry ALOT faster than standard Boolean Operations, but it was actually designed just to prime your levels before you convert them to BSP.

probably the major difference to be seen would be using a simple Box test... you CSG the world and the Leaf nodes are already setup so you can just subtract and your boolean operations will work alot better but more importantly you now vis this world or lightmap it and instantly they're more reliable in how they perform and more over when you compile the vis it goes from 1min on a p200 to 20seconds - this speed can help when you compile larger levels - worlds of 20,000 polys which did take a good 2hrs to compile now take a mear 1h5min ... oki so still a long time (for a p200) but you get the idea

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Vandetta
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Posted: 8th May 2003 23:35
Hmmm...so its not used for stuff like red faction? What exactly are vis leafs? Can I use it to improve framerate? Or does it just speed things along better when using the bsp compiler?

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th May 2003 05:30
Vis leafs are something used within BSP geometry, they can be used to declare geometry of a format in such a way that you can run through it in a visible perspective... so you can construct the level on the fly using just the tree as reference.

if you'd like to know more then do a search on BSP Tree, or i could email you full information from one of the main developers of the format for a better understanding.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
indi
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Posted: 9th May 2003 08:54
If u make your land as an x model then use a simple kensupen knowhow on the intersect object u can effectively create your own lands that will be inside the boundaries of csg so when they come online u will be able to modify your x land with these commands.

Van B
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Posted: 9th May 2003 12:42
Yeah, .x landscapes are cool - even the ones that Milkshape makes itself are pretty nice. You can UV map them with an uneven ground system we used in Jetpac - basically, each 'tile' is ignored, the texture is repeated 10x10 times instead of simply textured to each tile - this is good for terrains because it does'nt look blocky at all.

If you download our compo entry, Jetpac2003, you could take a look at one of the terrain models and textures, experiment a bit with that and Kens Y interect method. Using .X objects would allow multi-texturing, ghosting, lightmaps, well - obviously any visual trick you can think off with .x models. I'll most likely end up playing with .x terrains this weekend, if I come up with anything cool - I'll post it.


Van-B

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