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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Website forum suggestion for fpsc users!

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drew4663
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Posted: 28th Feb 2007 05:03
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I am not sure where to post this but the reason I am posting here is simply for feedback from fpsc users regarding the issues. I have two questions for the community:

1. I'm not sure about you but when I do a search it 99% of the time tells me that there were 100 or more threads blah blah blah narrow your search. I try to narrow and still the same thing. By the time I make it so specific that it is completely original it shows up maybe 1 or none of the threads of which pertain to what I am really searching for. Can the cap not be lifted off of the search?

2. More sub categories. "FPSC Chat" has gotten to be the landing pad for most posts and is just too braud of topics. Would it not be better to have sub-categories/directories within "FPSC Chat"? I think it migt help mods manage their duties a little better and allow people to search through a secondary tunnel.

example:
FPSC CHAT
|_ Level Design
|_ Months
|_ Open Discussion

|_ Updates
|_ Beta Releases
|_ Complaints
|_ Fixes (people can report old issues now fixed by updates)
|_ Final Releases
|_ Complaints
|_ Fixes

This is just a suggestion because I think a lot of unwanted whining has really turned the focus on finding solutions. Take for instance the last update. It's been 3% update, 7% troubleshooting, 70% complaining and 20% complaining about the complaining.

I think think if TGC could split the categories so that those looking in complaints know they are going to be able to post complaints can do so without being flamed and those who want to push forward and troubleshoot can do so without everyone being negative and making the focus of troubleshooting turn into a flamming battle.

Just a suggestion. If you like the idea then please say so because it would let TGC know that it is something the commmunity wants. If not, then please come up with a better solution. Thanks.
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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 28th Feb 2007 05:29
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I like it.
Quote: "
70% complaining"

I fall under that category when it comes to the newest update.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 28th Feb 2007 05:35
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I don't think it would make the mods jobs easier... It would mean having to monitor all those sub forums as well as move posts that aren't in the correct category etc...

Have you tried using the google forum search?


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Reality Forgotten
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
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Posted: 28th Feb 2007 09:20
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Yeah man, a bit to late in the game to add that anyway..though it was a good idea..


Jenkins...you don't need an update as bad as you think...

Regards
RF


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drew4663
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Posted: 28th Feb 2007 18:30
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@RF -
Quote: "Yeah man, a bit to late in the game"


Possibly for some. For me, it's never too late to improve.

Quote: "I don't think it would make the mods jobs easier... It would mean having to monitor all those sub forums as well as move posts that aren't in the correct category"


I disagree! Mods already move posts that aren't in the correct place. besides, I believe the amount of posts that are created each month would die down due to the fact that there wouldn't be as much double posting. Does it solve it to a 100% rate...no! Right now I look at the fpsc chat and I browse through I see over 5 thousand posts. Some have to do with doors, ai, updates, modeling...etc.

If I did a search for doors it would tell me to narrow my search. If I went to fpsc chat and then to segments/entities and then doors I would know exactly where to go. i would not have to post another post under fpsc chat to be lost in the sea of thousands. The nifty button at the bottom lets us choose "entire forum" or "just this thread". it would eliminate the narrowing of the search if I searched for a post in that specific sub-category.

I wish a mod would reply to this so I could get some feedback from them as well. Remember the idea of this is not to find out reasons why it wouldn't work but to suggest what could. Give positive feedback and solutions.

If you feel that the forums are fine the way they are then say so. if you feel they need work then post what you would change to better it. If you're not sure then say you don't like the way the forums are but you're not sure what would make it better.

I thank you for trying to give a solution for me finding what I need with google but this has nothing to do with google. It has to do with the internal search here on the forums.


@Jenkins
Thank you for the positive response.
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FredP
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Posted: 28th Feb 2007 22:31
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If you're waiting for a mod to say they want more forums...then you will be waiting a long time.
Lifting the cap off of the search might not be a bad idea.Then you can see all of the results.
Subforums would be a waste of time IMO.
And you're forgetting that x10 is going to be released shortly and we have no idea whether the x10 users will be using these forums or their own separate forums or what.
And FPSC Chat is specifically for posting stuff about FPSC that doesn't fall into the other catagories...it even says that when you run down the list of forums.
In any case we FPSC mods don't make those decisions so this is really a moot point.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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drew4663
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Posted: 28th Feb 2007 23:25
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Why do you feel that sub-categories would bring MORE forums??? Do you have everyone of your files on your desktop? No, you have them in specific folders. Why? To make for easy finding. This is obviously going over everyones head here. It wouldn't matter where x10 was put. it would still have its own category and sub-categories.

I only wanted feedback from mods because you work more closely with the forums. I never suggested you had any power over it but if you never voice your opinion then it will never be heard and nothing will get done. If enough users wanted these changes then it would greatly increase the chance of the people who do make those decisions to act on them.

I am not arguing the fact that fpsc chat falls under other categories listed and that's why I am saying to have more categories. If you want my personal opinion I think it's lazy and too easy to just have 3 or 4 categories and then say EVERYTHING ELSE falls under fpsc chat. It's Ludicrous.


NEXT!
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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 02:18
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Quote: "Jenkins...you don't need an update as bad as you think..."

Like I said before I'm fine with 1.04 RC2. But with all the new updates coming out (8 since the one I'm using) I would just expect one would be better (for me at least). But I'm fine with RC2.

I agree with you drew. I like the idea.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 02:24
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Quote: "This is obviously going over everyones head here"


No I fully understand what you are saying and I'm sure so does everyone else... Just because people don't agree with your opinion doesn't mean they can't comprehend what you are trying to say.

I feel the forums work fine as they are. What would be ludicrous is:

|_ Updates
|_ Beta Releases
|_ Complaints
|_ Fixes (people can report old issues now fixed by updates)
|_ Final Releases
|_ Complaints
|_ Fixes

All those sub categories for updates... it's much easier to have all of those things in the same topic... Imagine having to go reading through fixes and complaints before knowing if the problem you have has already been listed and/or fixed.

NEXT!!


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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 02:38 Edited at: 1st Mar 2007 02:40
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Even if the guy who updates the forum, comes along and spends time adding sub forums to each of the main fpsc forums, the members here will still post in the wrong areas and cause more havoc and stress on every ones account.
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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 02:39
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Lol agreeing with higgins 110%

You'll Know When You See It.

Death has no end
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wizard of id
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 02:59
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Quote: "Even if the guy who updates the forum, comes along and spends time adding sub forums to each of the main fpsc forums, the members here will still post in the wrong areas and cause more havoc and stress on every ones account."
So what your saying is because one idiot cann't follow the rules the rest must suffer..??


Pointless Assault RC1 Demo
http://fileho.com/download/534fc0519603/pointless.rar.html
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drew4663
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 03:20
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@ Wizard of id

THANK YOU!

@Thraxas
Judging by your response you do not understand the theory behind the madness. This could be my fault maybe by not explaining well enough. Also, I am fine with peoples opinion because this thread is my opinion too. What I don't like is people telling me why they think its a bad idea for the wrong reason (not fully understanding) and not offering a solution.


@Jenkins
Thank you

I do thank you all though for your input. I love to debate topics and I am either hoping for a solution like mine or I am hoping that someone can give me a strong enough argument to change my mind. This is just talk and we are not tearing anyone down.

Next!!! <---- HAHAHA this is funny!
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xplosys
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 03:26
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Quote: "So what your saying is because one idiot cann't follow the rules the rest must suffer..??"


I don't think were talking about an idiot and we're certainly not talking about one of them. You can break the forum up into as many sections as you want and people will post wherever they please. If they can't get it right with 5 sections, do you think it will be better with 20?

While the idea would work in a perfect world, this is not it. It would be much more confusing and nearly impossible to find anything, not to mention the ten-fold increase in labor for the MODS.

Quote: "I believe the amount of posts that are created each month would die down due to the fact that there wouldn't be as much double posting."


The reason we have so much double posting is because people don't search the existing 5 sections for what has already been posted. Again, increasing that to 20 to search through is certainly not going to help.

I get it, and I don't think it has gone above anyone's head, but I just don't think it's a good idea.

Best.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

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FredP
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 03:37
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Quote: "Judging by your response you do not understand the theory behind the madness."


Well put...and it applies to you.We are not going to have a catagory for every little thing.It is a waste of time,a waste of space and it is more trouble than it is worth.

People are not telling you this won't work for the wrong reason.People are telling you this won't work because it is inefficient.
Please don't talk down to everybody else like we can't understand what you are trying to say.
We are not going to have those subforums.It's not going to happen.
My best advice and solution to your problem is that if the search function doesn't provide you with what you are looking for then...gasp...just read through the threads until you find what you are looking for.
And search engines don't help when peoples' thread titles are "I have a noob question",etc.
I don't understand for the life of me how you don't think adding more forums/adding subforums would not take up more time.
We mods (as well as any users that might be intersted) still have to read through all of the posts or as many as we can.
And let's say a mod (we'll call him Keith) has dial-up.Having to click back and forth through all of this extra stuff is going to take up a lot of his time.
I have a high speed connection and a good deal of time that I can spend moderating the forums.
Not all of the other mods can say that.
We don't get paid for this,it is strictly a voluntary position and the mods do what they can with the time they have to give.
As far as I know all moderating positions at the TGC forums with the exception of TGC staff are like this.
And if you think the forums are bad now you should have been here last year at this time.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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Reality Forgotten
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 03:59
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Quote: "And let's say a mod (we'll call him Keith) has dial-up.Having to click back and forth through all of this extra stuff is going to take up a lot of his time.
"


Poor Kieth!


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Thraxas
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 04:06
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Quote: "@Thraxas
Judging by your response you do not understand the theory behind the madness. This could be my fault maybe by not explaining well enough. Also, I am fine with peoples opinion because this thread is my opinion too. What I don't like is people telling me why they think its a bad idea for the wrong reason (not fully understanding) and not offering a solution."


I fully understand what you are suggesting. Twice now you have spoken down to me and said I don't understand, I don't appreciate it!

I think the way the forums are set up now is fine. If I want scripting help I can go to the script forum. If I want Models/Media I go to the models and media section. If I want to post a bug report, you guessed it I go to the bug report forum etc... The way I see it the chat section is for any other fpsc related topic. Fred hit the nail on the head with:
Quote: "And search engines don't help when peoples' thread titles are "I have a noob question",etc."

Some people will never take the time to read the stickies or the manual or have a look around before posting, and this leads to the problems you are experiencing with the search. Changing the forum setup is not going to solve these problems.

Quote: "So what your saying is because one idiot can't follow the rules the rest must suffer..??"


Unfortunately this is just life. Next door have their house broken into because they don't have adequate security, this then increases MY home insurance as suddenly I'm in a higher risk area.
Also think back to when you were at school...how many times did your WHOLE class do detention because ONE kid did something stupid.

Next!!!!


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drew4663
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 04:37
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I am very sorry this has stepped on so many people's toes. Maybe everyone should post their ages so I can find out what level of maturity I am dealing with before I post a response. Thraxas, I never spoke down to you. I am sorry. I know now that you have a sensitive side and will respect that about you. Fredp, I guess the reason I have said that this will work with such confidence is that I have seen it's methods proved to me by several companies. Later tomorrow I will list the websites so that I can give clearer examples. I understand that you all have made great strides and have come a long way. Great! That's wonderful, but now what? Do we stop bettering ourselves. Do we become complacent always looking back at what we did instead of what we could do? I have yet to hear anyone say what could better the situation because you are happy/complacent with where you are. That's fine. I am expressing to you and a couple of others that we are not. We wish to move forward. Please don't give me the sob story of you doing this for free and doing the best you can because you agreed to that position and unless you are held by contract to finish out a term you can leave anytime you wish if you feel you are being short changed. (I could take that advice) I'm not sure why everyone has taken this so personally and wanting to shut me up. All I am doing is trying to ask people what they want. I have said my peace about it and so have you. I started this thread and this idea so naturally I am going to respond to everyone that posts. It's not that I am not allowing opposition but you let me know how you feel and I am letting you know how I feel about what you said. I know that you are unable to go through and delete double posts and posts that are locked up after two or three posts or even move posts that are in the wrong area. That is why I didn't start this thread with....What's wrong with these forums why aren't the mods doing there jobs by cutting out a lot of the garbage?" Instead I was trying to submit a solution and hoping to get some positive feedback in regards to the problem. Does one exist? If not, great! If so, what can we do to rectify the issue? but no, just mostly postings of how it wouldn't work. That's all. Of how dumb it was. Then, I try to explain myself by the responses and you guys take offense from it. GROW UP! Come up with solutions not more porblems. TGC has a lost a lot of good people due to flamers and negative naysayers. What will it take for you all to grow up and care about what is actually written here. Take garagegames for example...FULL OF HELPFUL PEOPLE!!! I understand that the targeted audience varies in age but I am also assuming that the audience we have before us in this thread is well above 14!

Anyway, like I said before (thraxas)
Quote: "I do thank you all though for your input. I love to debate topics and I am either hoping for a solution like mine or I am hoping that someone can give me a strong enough argument to change my mind. This is just talk and we are not tearing anyone down."
pssstttt...read the part about not tearing anyone down!!!! It's the best part. Pretty soon you guys are going to turn away the people who want to help you the most and you will be a dying breed of fpsc game makers. Good luck to you all. Go ahead and get your shots in and lock this puppy up whenever you feel like it.

I'm out!
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xplosys
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 04:53
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Your way too sensitive, man. Everyone is giving their opinion and you are taking it personally. As for ages, you'd be surprised about who you're talking to in this thread. You're also a little rude, but I'm not going to cry about it. We don't agree with you, that's all.

Best.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 04:53
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Quote: "Thraxas, I never spoke down to you. I am sorry. I know now that you have a sensitive side and will respect that about you."


ROFL... You don't know me at all but because I got irritated with you, you now feel I have a sensitive side. By saying I didn't understand your 'solution' twice you irritated me... I didn't feel like you were tearing me. I've had much worse on these forums I can tell you.

Quote: "Please don't give me the sob story of you doing this for free and doing the best you can because you agreed to that position and unless you are held by contract to finish out a term you can leave anytime you wish if you feel you are being short changed."


Now I'm not a mod but this offended me... Were you here when no mods would even come onto this forum? When I joined this place was awful... Now all the fpsc mods have done good job getting things in order and tidying the place up. There have been new rules set up, such as not posting models that aren't fpsc ready in the models and media section. People are not being complacent, there are changes occurring but maybe not as fast as you would like.

You may not be happy with the set up but many people are... and I guarantee that if the forums were changed the first 100 or so posts would be people complaining about the new structure of the forums...

Quote: "Take garagegames for example...FULL OF HELPFUL PEOPLE!!!"

Well your experience of the garagegames forum is completely different to mine... I received no help there whatsoever just lots of condescending people...

You said to the mods that "you can leave anytime you wish if you feel you are being short changed." Well so can you...


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KeithC
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 05:30
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Quote: "Maybe everyone should post their ages so I can find out what level of maturity I am dealing with before I post a response."

I suppose I'll take a stab at this debate. I'm in my early 30's (I know Fred's a few years my senior). I hold a Bachelors Degree in History. I am a 9 year Army Veteran with a tour in Iraq in the Spring/Summer of '03; during which time I had men under me (as an NCO), who I was responsible for at all times. While in Iraq I ran the Wrecker (as a diesel mechanic) on numerous convoys throughout Iraq/Kuwait. I tell you this, because there was a great deal of management and (the dreaded) micromanagement that I had to emply to carry out our mission(s). I know what happens when you complicate things.

Now; what you originally proposed is a nice idea, but these forums aren't quite ready for that kind of depth as yet. It has taken the better part of a year to get things to a half-way stable state...you should have been here a year ago (or more).

Whether you realize it or not, several (general) statements you made could be construed as "talking down" to members here. These members have participated in these forums for varying amounts of time; they have a good feel for what may and may not work.

Quote: "Please don't give me the sob story of you doing this for free and doing the best you can because you agreed to that position and unless you are held by contract to finish out a term you can leave anytime you wish if you feel you are being short changed."

Opinions vary, I suppose; though I'm not quite sure as to how I'd be short changed in any way.

Quote: "Take garagegames for example...FULL OF HELPFUL PEOPLE!!!"

Sure it is, I partake in that community as well (we hold 3 TGB licenses, as well as TGE). But I guaruntee you that there are still disruptive members there as well. Since the engine is $100 (for TGB) and $150 (TGE), it tends to attract a bit more mature of a crowd (not to mention it's not a drag and drop game maker).

I can appreciate what you're trying to do, but (as far as I know) it's just not going to happen at this time. Awhile back I went over the idea (with other Mods) of having a separate section for people that are new to creating media (3D, 2D, sound/music, etc.), to cut down on the "my first model" threads that used to plague the FPSC Media section...it's something that may happen someday.

Quote: "Poor Kieth!"

Yes indeed Dave; dial-up is the devil's work.

-Keith



Ozark Games
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FredP
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 05:42 Edited at: 1st Mar 2007 05:47
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Quote: " Please don't give me the sob story of you doing this for free and doing the best you can because you agreed to that position and unless you are held by contract to finish out a term you can leave anytime you wish if you feel you are being short changed."


drew,
That was indeed a cheap shot.
The reason that we volunteered to be FPSC forum mods (lack of coommon sense notwithstanding in my case) is because we care about the forums.
In my case I put in a lot of time on these forums.
Maybe you're right.Maybe I could leave anytime I wanted...
but I won't...for several possible reasons.
1. I still care about the forums and will do what I can to make them a better place.
2. I love annoying the crap out of people.
3. If there were no mods for the FPSC forums then people like you would run around and ruin it for everybody else.
This thread started off as a suggestyion by you and you asked for input.
When you didn't hear what you wanted you basically took a cheap shot at everybody and this thread has turned into what cheap shot you will take next.
As far as a maturity level (as long as you brought it up) you are acting more immature than everyone else.
I mean...surely you must be right and all of the longtime members of this communtiy must be wrong...
And I bet you think I am going to lock this thread...well,think again.
The way I look at it is you started this and now you are going to finish it.
I am sure that when some of the other forum members come across this thread and care to post (since ther are so many important threads they could post in) I am sure you will hear their opinions too.
If you are trying to tick me off by calling me names and such let me tell you I will be 40 in October and I have been called every name in the book...more than once.
If you don't believe me ask around here.
You might have been able to accomplish something but now this is another flame war and you started it.
BTW thanks for appreciating that we donate our time and energy to make the forums a better place for you.[sarcasm]I appreciate your support[/sarcasm].

Edit: BTW as Keith has posted there have been several suggestions by mods on adding and/or altering the forums.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 05:58
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LOL, Keith-- no worries man,

One thing that is funny is most of the people in this thread are in there late 20's early to mid 30's sorry Fred---I heard FedEx has your new hip! and I know of two of us that have served atleast 9 yrs in the military as NCO's (Keith and myself) And yes I have been to the beach and I have danced. As far as management uhm.....I work on explosives so No other carreer field in the world has to be as streamline and organized as mine. one slip and BOOM! someone's dead and your in jail for either negligent homicide or involuntary manslaughter. one mess up and someone missing dinner with their families....get my drift man? Ao the understanding is there, it's the process that is lacking....


Regards,
RF


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drew4663
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 14:16
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@ KeithC

Very good post!
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