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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Non-X10 FPS Creator Development

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Komet
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Posted: 7th Mar 2007 23:03
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I would like to know from TGC if they plan on continuing to develop the non-X10 version of FPS Creator?

I ask because myself and many other users have invested a lot of time, effort and some money in the non-X10 version and I suspect many of us have no intention of upgrading to Vista in the near future.

Infact a BBC news report stated last week that a good number of those who had upgraded had now re-installed Windows XP because Vista did not run their favourite software.

Personally I think that if the non-X10 version of FPS Creator is not to be developed further and be bug fixed, then I for one see no point in spending any more time on the non-X10 version of FPS Creator or any other product released by TGC.
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Fiberfrag
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Posted: 7th Mar 2007 23:19
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I believe it is in The Game Creators intention to release future patches for FPSC. We are waiting on a 1.05 patch that is coming soon I think and hopefully that will solve some issues.

Fiberfrag

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Komet
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Posted: 7th Mar 2007 23:22
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Well I'm hoping for a confirmation of this, a reply from TGC themselves, it's been suggested that they do read their own forums.

So let's see.
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Veron
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Posted: 7th Mar 2007 23:25
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There's already been a topic exactly like this, and the answer to it has been confirmed by TGC staff. Yes, they will continue updating FPSC V1 with patches, but will do no more.
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Komet
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Posted: 7th Mar 2007 23:35
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That topic was about FPSC X10, this is about FPSC (Non-X10) and is requesting clear answers, i.e. are they just going to patch it and not develop further or?

If the latter is the case, why should we trust and invest in another product by this company?
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FredP
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Posted: 8th Mar 2007 02:27
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Quote: "Yes, they will continue updating FPSC V1 with patches, but will do no more."

It is my understanding...from what last I heard...that TGC will continue development of FPSC to a point as well as bug fixes, patches,etc.
I am in the same boat as you guys...waiting to see what happens next.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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Komet
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Posted: 8th Mar 2007 02:36
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I e-mailed TGC earlier to ask for a developer to reply in the form so that all is clear as daylight.
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RickV
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 11:41
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Hi, yes we do intend to develop the x9 version. Lee is just knee deep in x10 right now. I'll also ask him to pop here and post his own views.

Rick

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[Check out Jed McKenna - http://www.wisefoolpress.com/]
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Komet
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 12:37
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Thanks for your reply Rick and I look forward to hearing Lee's views on all this.

It's good to hear that TGC will continue to develop FPSC (original) or x9 as you called it?

However, I don't understand how TGC could even consider becoming knee deep in developing x10 when the original FPSC (which has the customers) has so many issues that need addressing urgently.

To me and I suspect to most of your customers who have been developing their game with the original FPSC, this is a nonsense unless of course the original FPSC has so many issues that it's a nightmare and not worth your time resolving them... as it would be far easier to create new software.

If so, there is the problem, you are assuming there is a market for x10 that will make it worthwhile for TGC and that we would trust you again.

Please place priority on the needs and wishes of your existing customers else you may well find you won't have that many for further software adventures.

Putting x10 on the backburner and resolving issues with the FPSC original version would please us no end, the frame rate, multiplayer, character sticking and various other aspects are major concerns for us.

I think you could safely increase the price for an FPSC V2 and upgrades to it, I am guessing most of us don't have a problem with that so long as things are fixed and improvements made.

I have no intention of upgrading to Vista or touching x10 with a barge pole no matter what it promises.
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KeithC
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 12:55
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I think it's a bit of a sticky situation here. TGC needs to keep up with the times, as far as technology goes (X10). A small company that can be the first to do something like X10 is pretty significant.

However, there is an existing user base with FPSC V1; for the most part, it's a dedicated group and a definite revolving source of income for TGC. Concerns of this group shouldn't go unheeded. Without the bug-finding, and promotion of FPSC, TGC would have their work cut-out for them. The various (unsupported) competitions also help to keep the product alive; as these are primarily member-driven, it would be bad business to focus entirely on a new system, and let the old one (FPSC V1) fade into the background.

Having said all that; TGC is a small company, with limited resources. Where to put these resources won't always make everyone happy. We'll just have to wait and see what Lee has to say. I suspect that (since the release of X10 is close) X10 will be finished and shipped, before more efforts are brought to bear in the completion of FPSC V1. Though I haven't heard anything yet, I hope there will be a discount for the V1 users that have carried TGC this far.

-Keith



Ozark Games
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Komet
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 13:25
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I'm not suggesting they cease to keep up with the times, but rather put that into perspective and not jump on the Vista bandwagon too fast as it's a wagon that will move slowly.

Which currently has the largest market... software for XP or Vista, the answer is obviously XP.

If it's true that x10 is to be released soon while we have all been asking and waiting for a patch and new features added to FPSC (original), then that sucks.
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Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 13:55 Edited at: 9th Mar 2007 13:55
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how about no talks until Lee speaks?....Leave the speculation in it's ugly cave...


Regards,
RF


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KeithC
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 14:09 Edited at: 9th Mar 2007 14:38
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Talking is what forums are for; users can voice their concerns here, where Lee can read them (before he decides to post) and prepare to answer them. Much of the speculation is based off of past performance.

As long as this doesn't turn into a TGC "bashing" thread, that is.

-Keith



Ozark Games
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 19:30
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Hi Guys,

Rick dragged me kicking and screaming out of the X10 cave to answer the concern over X9 development this year. The concern is that there will not be any. I can assure you that there will be plenty of X9 development, more than X10 development too! I am currently working through some multiplayer fixing for V105 and then I will release the first candidate for public testing. I have also toned down the lightmapper so it consumes less, which might help with those with larger levels. I have posted below the current V105 fixed list:

* Changed V103/V105 texts in all languages to V105
* Fixed bug to restore ability to move the selection area splitter (making property area wider)
* Fixed bug to restore the colour dialog on the object properties field
* Selecting EDIT LOADING SCREEN without selecting a level no longer freezes the editor
* Reverted to DirectX OCTOBER 2006 (d3dx9_31.dll) due to compatibility issues with 1.X Shaders
* Replaced DirectX detector with simpler method, earlier in the Editor Initialisation Phase
* Reduced lightmapquality to 10 in setup.ini (reduces texture consumption by 800%)
* Fixed bug causing lightmapper to use an old mesh buffer after secondary UV added (replace=true)
* Ensured New Arena and Arena tab work in the new update of the FPS Creator interface

The reason the V105 is taking slow steps is the plan I have. Rather than operate two code paths for X10 and X9, because the main FPSC code base is largely the same, they will be integrated into a single code path so fixes and feature enhancements to X10 that are XP compatible will migrate to the original FPSC. And vice versa. Nearly all of the X10 work is with the engine. The actual DBP source code is hardly changing.

One such benefit we had not planned for XP users is the inclusion of ragdoll physics into the engine. We currently have it up and running, and now that characters fall and tumble realistically, it really changes the feel of a fire fight, and adds a realism and polish that was no there before. We are also simplifying the AI, so it is more in line with user expectations (that is, enemies won't blindly run into walls and keep running, even if you throw things at them). DarkAI integration is another feature.

I will nevertheless continue making critical fixes to the X9 code in order that you don't hit too many obstacles which you wait for X10 and the features it will bring.

As soon as I have sorted out the multiplayer tweaks, I will get V105 uploaded so you can have a go.

"Small, smart, and running around the legs of dinosaurs to find enough food to survive, bedroom programmers aren't extinct after all "
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Nickydude
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 19:53
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That's fantastic news Lee! I commend you and your team for all the hard work you're doing, the update sounds like it might fix a few issues and smarter AI (as well as ragdoll physics) is something I think we all look forward to. Well done.




HellHouse
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Komet
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 19:56 Edited at: 9th Mar 2007 19:57
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Hello Lee and thanks for your reply and filling us all in on what is happening regarding FPSC.

I think it's great to hear trhat you are not going drop development of the original FPSC and will release a V1.05 that addresses some bug problems and other issues.

Low Framerate being the biggest issue, another being the player sticking suddenly while walking.

The lack of multiplayer features and connection problems are also an area I know a lot of FPSC owners have remarked on, indeed not having any TEAM playing capability is a feature many of us would like to see changed.

Is there any chance of this happening soon?
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Nickydude
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 20:40
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Quote: "Ensured New Arena and Arena tab work in the new update of the FPS Creator interface"


Is the interface getting a tweak then Lee?


HellHouse
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Jeremiah
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 21:30
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What about the games that are created in X10 will this require that everyone who plays the games are required to upgrade to vista and to buy a new video card? If this is the case, I can't see any reason to buy it. Maybe if it offers physics, better graphics, large levels and more realism and can be played on xp as well as vista, then maybe just maybe I would consider getting it.
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Jeremiah
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 21:32
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BTW, are you saying Dark Ai is intergrated... when did this happen?
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Nickydude
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 22:04
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Dark AI will be integrated at some point.


HellHouse
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Jeremiah
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 22:11
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Will I be able to create weapons that can shoot goo and have sharks with laser beams?
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Nickydude
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 22:15
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Yes, you'll also be able to have extendable arms so you can punch people from a distance, and mice with grenades strapped to their backs.


HellHouse
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Jeremiah
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 22:20
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Sweet
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Komet
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 22:52
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Quote: "Will I be able to create weapons that can shoot goo and have sharks with laser beams?"


Quote: "Yes, you'll also be able to have extendable arms so you can punch people from a distance, and mice with grenades strapped to their backs."


Quote: "Sweet"


That's it boys, go ahead and ruin a serious thread that concerns us all by your idiotic additions to it.
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Jeremiah
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 22:59
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My questions were serious. Slightly. I just want to know if this AI integration will allow me to build games with cool effects
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Komet
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 23:03
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Quote: "My questions were serious. Slightly. I just want to know if this AI integration will allow me to build games with cool effects"


I noted the "slightly" and also your post exactly the same in another thread about x10, so you know... pull the other one and stop trolling.
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FredP
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 23:07
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I see nowhere in Lee's post where he says he is implementing a particle system at this time.
Some effects can be simulated but I think the things you are wanting would require a particle system and FPSC currently has limited particle support.
There's nothing wrong with having a sense of humor but this thread is important so let's try to keep it on topic.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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Jeremiah
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 23:13
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I am not being rude, and I AM NOT TROLLING I am asking serious questions and no one is answering them. It makes me wonder about this entire site and company, if this kind of abuse can be allowed
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RickV
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 23:40
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You could learn DBPro and then get the FPSC source code and create your own version of the game engine to make the weird and wonderful weapons you so desire!

Make games and making game making tools all takes a lot of time and effort. The biggest issue with FPSC is what to make it do next, there are so many ideas. Clearly we need to sort out core issues and continue to develop the tech that runs the game.

Today I played a level on Vista that had 20-30 enemies all standing on a large stair case. I was able to shoot them all dead and see them tumbling down the stairs! In XP you will be able to have only a few enemies before this starts to kill your GPU/CPU, on Vista it runs fast and smooth - such is the power of DX10. I've said too much now!

Financial Director
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[Check out Jed McKenna - http://www.wisefoolpress.com/]
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Komet
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Posted: 9th Mar 2007 23:50
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Hey Ricky I can play Battlefield 2 online with 64 other players and my framerate does not suffer, but if I play an FPS game with 6 characters (not even online) my framerate drops to 14 FPS!

For sure this is not so bad if your game is about Zombies if you know what I mean, but I hate Zombie games.
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Jeremiah
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Posted: 10th Mar 2007 02:39
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Rick, It would be great if I that kind of time. I have been a C developer for 7 years. But right now I work 40 hours a week and go to college full time. I bought it, and I did spend some time learning, but I just don't have that much time. Maybe some day.

If I have time I will buy Vista and a new system in may, and check out the new version. Any chance we are going to get a discount: those of us that bought the previous version?
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 10th Mar 2007 03:10
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Lee - Thanks for the update on 1.05

Glad to see that shaders are going to be back on track again. I haven't looked into the differences between Directx 9.0c Oct/Dec 06 and Feb 07 so am assuming they are trivial enough to be a mute point.

In regards to the point about reduction in lightmapping quality. I believe this is something that can be amended manually by the user in the current version but I can understand making this the default if the tradeoff in performance is significant.

Good news about the Multiplayer / Arena interface tab fix and other general fixes too.

News of ragdoll physics / DarkAI and confirmed future support for FPSC is excellent. Hopefully this will see a reduction in X9 vs X10 debate threads, although I thought RickV's mention of a level running on Vista with those kind of specs is interesting. However If XP users migrate to Vista then I'd be quite surprised if they stayed with X9 rather than making the full transition to X10, especially with how close the X10 release is. Except to allow Vista users the opportunity to play a better version of a decent X9 game as a bonus.

It's a shame this thread picked up some uneccessary posts along the way. We've all waited a long time to receive the news about 1.05 and then we finally get it only for a bunch of questions about someones individual game and asking for confirmation of points which have either already been covered or simply require a moments consideration from the information already provided.

Honestly folks, im not surprised it doesn't exactly inspire the people at TGC to be active in this forums when their being asked these sorts of questions.

A little thread etiquette and a 'be sure before you post' approach goes a long way. Any questions in responce to a major update like this should be informed and for the general interest of the community otherwise start a seperate thread / do a search.

Anyway if we don't hear from you again until the upload. Thanks again for the information Lee / RickV. It's re assuring to be kept up to date with things and those things now look quite promising.
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Mr Makealotofsmoke
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Posted: 10th Mar 2007 13:08
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yay lee
its good that FPSC X9 will be still supported and stuff
and its good that 1.05 will be here soon
thanks for the update lee


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vorconan
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Posted: 11th Mar 2007 00:50
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Did i hear that wrong? Is ragdoll physics being implanted into X9 or X10, sorry if it was too obvious not to notice, i'm just very curious in the matter that ragdoll physics was achievable in the X9 game engine.

so what's the job?
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Zdrok
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Posted: 11th Mar 2007 01:00
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Ragdolls are cool. If this is integrated into X9, then i'll be happier than a chipmunk on steriods.

Really, seeing a Conker tumbling down stairs, then shooting him onto a crate, which he bounces off of would be cool. There goes another Conker, Lee. I know you like them.

Clarion: Violent Clash

Arriving in 2007.
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Candle_
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Posted: 11th Mar 2007 06:58
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ragdoll physics being implanted into X9 amd X10.

My Web site Deveron Murder MysteryGame Mikes Room

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tj990
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Posted: 11th Mar 2007 07:02
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Quote: "then i'll be happier than a chipmunk on steriods."


ROFL
lollolololololololololol
ahahhahahah
i can't stop laughing at that

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