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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / New Versions of Dark Basic Pro Are ALWAYS Worse!!!!

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TinTin
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Joined: 16th May 2006
Location: BORG Drone Ship - Being Assimilated near Roda Beta (28)
Posted: 12th Mar 2007 20:19
Some tests will always be faster on some machines than others.
current systems have several processors all capable of different speeds for different tasks.
CPU tests
GPU tests
Pixel Shader tests
Vertex Shader tests
2D & 3D screen effects
is 10x 100 vertex objects faster 1x 1000 vertex object etc..
then there's the turin test of wether DBP is faster using DX than another App doing the same test (i.e. one writen in C++)

Cyberspace was becoming overcrowded and slummy so I decided to move. These nice chaps gave me a lift.
Green Gandalf
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Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 12th Mar 2007 21:22
My last post didn't include a test of U6.2 on my laptop. I have now done that using the edited version of Lee's code that I posted earlier.

The program closes instantly when "delete objects" is commented out - and not quite instantly when it is included. This is in stark contrast to U6.4 and U6.5 which both take about 50 secs to close with and without "delete objects". I suspect this is something that was introduced in U6.3.

So both my machines, with quite different set-ups, suggest there is something wrong with the recent upgrades, even though the symptoms are somewhat different.
Alquerian
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Location: Reno Nevada
Posted: 12th Mar 2007 21:48 Edited at: 12th Mar 2007 21:50
Quote: "The program closes instantly when "delete objects" is commented out - and not quite instantly when it is included. This is in stark contrast to U6.4 and U6.5 which both take about 50 secs to close with and without "delete objects". I suspect this is something that was introduced in U6.3."


Well, I have done some tests between 6.4 and 6.3 with the # of objects that are loaded into dbp and when it shuts down. There is no Question that there is a serious flaw introduced in 6.4 and the way it handles multiple and cloned objects, this cannot be argued(for more information, follow this link: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=100173&b=15) . The upgrade to 6.4 has left a very sour taste in my mouth and I am hesitant (to say the least) to upgrade to 6.5. My understanding is that 6.5 is identical to 6.4 (for dbp users) with the exception of being able to run Eric's enhanced animation plugin. However, 6.3 to 6.4 hammered out a lot of problems regarding cameras and shaders, so that TGC could successfuly market their darkshader application, in doing so neglecting the rest of the language and releasing it before it was properly tested.

Hopefully some of these issues will be acknowledged and fixed in 6.6 as well as the option of being able to generate a list of culled and non-culled objects as LiT suggested. I can understand in fixing the cameras that you MAY loose some speed and this is understandable, as understandable as taking 2 steps forward and one step backwards. It is just a little disappointing that recent releases have been entirely for promoting sales as opposed to fixing their problems. It is a tough juggling act, I know. Keeping your customers happy and paying the bills, I am sure it is very difficult. I was reassured to see that Lee had responded to this post because when the community points out bugs and others complain and hear nothing in response from the administration, they tend to fear the worst. I hope everything is well with everyone at TGC.

Quit planning to make a game and make a game.
Green Gandalf
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Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 12th Mar 2007 22:34
@Alquerian

Quote: " There is no Question that there is a serious flaw introduced in 6.4 and the way it handles multiple and cloned objects,"


I have just tested U6.3 and you're right.

This particular problem of slow closedown seems to have been introduced with U6.4. I haven't got time now to check whether the slow running problem was also introduced in U6.4 - but my tests confirm what you say about the closedown issue (except that the problems are not confined to cloned objects - see my edited version of Lee's code posted earlier on this thread).
Alquerian
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Location: Reno Nevada
Posted: 12th Mar 2007 23:38
Quote: "my tests confirm what you say about the closedown issue (except that the problems are not confined to cloned objects - see my edited version of Lee's code posted earlier on this thread)."

GG - My thoughts exactly, I hadn't tested it with non-cloned objects until I read through this thread and tested a few things out. All of my tests with instanced objects work great, but if you have a bunch of originals or a bunch of clones, then things just go to HE double hockey sticks.

Quit planning to make a game and make a game.
Philip
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 13th Mar 2007 02:13 Edited at: 13th Mar 2007 02:14
I also understand the pressures that TGC are under but it is a bit tongue-swallowingly frustrating when you see an update come out and you think "Wow! Great!" only to then discover after you've installed it that you've got either a significant new bug to contend with or a change in functionality which isn't referenced in the help files. I jumped from 6.2b to 6.5 (long story) and have now gone backwards to 6.4 because of various of the bugs reported on the bugs forums. Actually my approach nowadays is only to upgrade after a few months having not seen any massive criticism on the forums of the latest upgrade. I only jumped to 6.5 because I'd bought DarkShader and needed to do so.

I don't want anyone to think I'm criticising Lee. I'm not. I think Lee does an AMAZING job given that he's got a relatively small company and limited resources. I also don't give a second's thought to this NB product that is being touted by NuclearGlory (because he's at least 6 years behind TGC and doesn't have the same resources as TGC have). I just wish life was fairer, trains ran on time, I have won the lottery at least twice and there'd be a bit more time for comprehensive testing/bug fixing.

Oh, and I'd also like an unlimited supply of Mr. Kipling's cherry bakewells.

Cheer if you like bears! Cheer if you like jam sandwiches!
"I highly recommend Philip" (Philip)
Alquerian
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Posted: 13th Mar 2007 02:42 Edited at: 13th Mar 2007 02:43
Quote: "I also don't give a second's thought to this NB product that is being touted by NuclearGlory (because he's at least 6 years behind TGC and doesn't have the same resources as TGC have)."


Agreed, he is significantly behind TGC and he has less resources. I do believe that he will have a marketable product in the end, and it will attract certain people. Will it ever be as good as DBP? I think that in some ways that would be comparing apples to oranges. NB will have it's own niche I am sure of that. It won't replace DBP or blitz or anything of the sort. It just gives those out there another option to do things a different way, in a different language. Either way, NB's situation will likely be no different from DBP's, customers will get irritated by new (and persisting) bugs and errata. I don't care how good you think you are, when your program reaches a certain size, bugs will undoubtedly creep in.

Edit:
On an additional note, I do appreciate the work that TGC does. You guys make a great product, even with it's occasional annoyances.

Quit planning to make a game and make a game.
Xenocythe
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Location: You Essay.
Posted: 13th Mar 2007 02:50
I don't know about NB, it looks alright. I might try it out.

I'm never leaving DBPro. It is a great programming language. Everyone did a great job making it.


But here is a code that shows that The latest version is much faster than 6.0!








No, really though, if I set auto culling off, will my games run faster as if they would in 6.0?

-Mansoor S.
Hobgoblin Lord
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Location: Fall River, MA USA
Posted: 13th Mar 2007 03:40
Xeno, I had to change your code a bit but it seems to prove the opposite ala the attached screen.



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