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3 Dimensional Chat / Russian Guard Character

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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 12th Mar 2007 02:28
I wanted to show the character I modelled for a project of mine. Its a Russian guard in a fur coat and hat. Let me know what you think.

filya
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Posted: 12th Mar 2007 03:16
I am not sure, but that looks like a lot of polys. Usually characters tend to be around 3k poly mark.

Unless you really want to animate the characters fingers (curling/straightening etc) you wouldn't want so many polys there. Also, things like the belt...you can try and make do without that and use a normal map instead. And if you dont want to use shaders (or don't know how to like me ), even a well textured belt should do.

-- game dev is fun...but taking up too much time --
SpyDaniel
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Posted: 12th Mar 2007 03:23
The character is 3042 tris. I wont be using shaders for the project I'm doing, just normal texture maps. I might just cut down on the polygons to lowwer the count for better game play.
Venge
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Posted: 12th Mar 2007 04:21
I think it looks like he got shot about....10 times

Soon to come: Corvette vs. the CHARGER
Spambergo
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Location: CT, USA
Posted: 12th Mar 2007 04:32
Its not too bad, actually. I like the style, a good texture could take it far. How, I have to agree with filya... its a little high on the polygons. I used to be obsessed with keeping my models very low poly, but it really only made them look ugly. I have been using between 1900-2500 tris for most of my current work. The problem with your model is that there are tons of polygons, but they don't add nearly as much detail as they should.

The arms and the coat could probably lose a lot of polygons, and retain the look. The hands actually look pretty nice... you could make them into a solid block, optimizing them a bit, but I'd leave 'em, and work on other areas.

Anyway, it's looking pretty good, keep it up!

Reality Forgotten
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
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Posted: 12th Mar 2007 05:09
Higgins- I would remove the conforming shape of the arms, russian jackets were and still are very bulky. The head looks a bit to tall, not by much though.


Regards,
RF


SpyDaniel
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Posted: 12th Mar 2007 05:11
Well I went away and took out some polygons and got the model down to a cool 2496!

Here is what it looks like now:

Seth Black
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
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Posted: 12th Mar 2007 06:51
Higgins,

Greetings. That Russian guard looks pretty darn nice. Would you be interested in getting him textured? I'd be happy to see what I could do for you.

Thanks,

Seth Black

"...I'm sorry, could you repeat your question a little louder? I'm a trifle deaf in this ear."

- Willie Wonka
indi
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Posted: 12th Mar 2007 07:21
thats a great improvement from your previous shots mate
good work in reducing those polys.
If the boots and certain areas could be reduced more you would have a great start for uvmapping.

bond1
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Posted: 12th Mar 2007 08:28
Looks great Higgins, this is really an improvement over your earlier characters, now it just needs a good texture.

Good job with the poly reduction, but you MIGHT want to keep a couple loops around where the knee bends so it deforms correctly. You could probably get away with adding just one extra loop and sliding one of the other closer to the knee joint.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
SpyDaniel
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Posted: 12th Mar 2007 13:43
I have took every ones advice and I have come down to having this:



He is now 2174 polygons (I think that's a great poly reduction from being 3042)

@Seth Black

I'm having a few people ask me this and I don't want to turn any of them down, as I really cant texture at a good quality. Ill give you a go when the UV map is complete along with the other people who want to texture it.

@Indi

I feel proud now that you think my model looks good

@Bond1

Thanks Mark, the texture will be the last thing ill worry about, I'm going to rig him and see how he animates, then edit the mesh where I need to.

I have taken into account about the knee joints and I will add those the next time I edit him, which will probably be after this post.
Moondog
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Posted: 12th Mar 2007 17:43
The model is a great start, i only have 3 suggestions.

1st: triangles = bad, try to avoid them in none joint areas, or you may get some nasty results

2nd: get rid of the hemisphere buttons, just do that with the texture

3rd: you might have trouble deforming later, because the joints don't have enough polys

keep up the good work

MOONDOG


current projects: Mystic Dream // red // battle room
SpyDaniel
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Posted: 12th Mar 2007 17:57
@Moondog

I'll take out the buttons then and have them placed in the texture instead.

I did a rig of this model just before and it was fine, besides in two places:

The head and the bottom of the coat.

The head deformed badly, the chin was to one side and the rest of his head to the other when set in a pose.

The bottom front of the coat deformed badly, as in polygons over lapped and where other to one side more, instead of being in the middle.

I think the head needs more polygons, so it doesn't deform unnatural and the coat needs a new column of polies.
Moondog
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Posted: 12th Mar 2007 18:03
for the head, i dont know what program your using, but if you set the head verts to full strength for the bone, it'll fix that. No need to add more polys. If you post a screen of your posed version, i could see how to fix the coat poly's overlapping.

MOONDOG


current projects: Mystic Dream // red // battle room
SpyDaniel
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Posted: 12th Mar 2007 18:33 Edited at: 12th Mar 2007 18:34
@Moondog

This is what happens to the coat:





And even with the vertices set to full strength, the chin hangs over to one side:

Shadow Coderer
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Posted: 12th Mar 2007 22:56
Quote: "1st: triangles = bad, try to avoid them in none joint areas, or you may get some nasty results"

He's not subdividing it! Triangles are pretty much a requirement for .x models, and darkbasic pro runs best with triangular polygons.

"If I die, tell my wife 'hello'"
Moondog
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Posted: 13th Mar 2007 02:01 Edited at: 13th Mar 2007 02:07
no, triangles are bad for both low poly and high poly meshes, unless they are a joint, which is the best way to get optimal deformation. his topology is sloppy because the way he has the body flowing into the bottom of the coat. I"m not being mean, just it's considered sloppy.

The way he can fix those center triangles, and fix his coat deformation at the bottom is to get rid of the center line, and extend the triangle top verts down. Then instead of a center line, you have two of them. Then you can assign one to each corresponding bone. It seems some of the verts are being influenced by the opposite bones. So doing what i said can eliminate that problem.

Hope i wasn't too confusing

some other things, it seems you have some illegal poly's in the face, where the nose attaches to the head. Some programs will automatically fix then when export, but with random results. I'd say keep with a simple triangle nose, unless your going for ultra detail...still, the face needs optimized.

The pockets on the arms could also be done with a texture, so don't need those. The bottom of the feet look a little sloppy. Make sure your have single edges going across the bottom of the foot, and don't have mixed with some across and some going with the foot.

Well, thats all i got now, looking better. You don't have to take my suggestions, because there just that

as for the head deforming, i'd need to see the actual bone rig, and how your handling your influence fall off, and weights. Also what program are you using?



MOONDOG


current projects: Mystic Dream // red // battle room
SpyDaniel
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Posted: 13th Mar 2007 02:30
I'm using 3D Studio Max.

Ill do what you said about the centre line on the coat and tomorrow ill post up a screen shot of the rig.
JimB
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Posted: 13th Mar 2007 10:44
Quote: "Triangles are pretty much a requirement for .x models, and darkbasic pro runs best with triangular polygons"


Thats what I understand as well,also I think if the model is not triangulated then the application triangulates it on loading which takes a little longer,probably not much of a problem with a few models but could be significant with many.
Moondog
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Posted: 13th Mar 2007 17:17
thats not what i meant by triangles...usually when modeling you do in faces instead of polys, faces are made of two polys. When modeling in faces, it's proper topology to keep faces running in a horizontal and vertical fashion. Now when exporting programs will just make sure that all faces are broken into proper triangles.

Now what i was talking about is the way he had 4 edged faces flowing into 3 sides. When modeling using faces, try and avoid triangle faces unless in joints. Trust me, you'll get some weird deformation if you change your model's topology like that.

MOONDOG


current projects: Mystic Dream // red // battle room
Dared1111
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Posted: 13th Mar 2007 19:25
on top of the head there are some unneeded polies

[link]"http://www.greatgamesexperiment.com/user/Dared1111/" my account on GGE[\link]

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