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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] == Map List Server ==

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Komet
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 12:00 Edited at: 15th Mar 2007 12:46
While the Multiplayer games created with FPSC allow for connecting to a TGC Games List Server, this to me is not an ideal solution and here is why I say this...

Say for example someone releases a really good game made with FPSC,and that the main attraction of the game is that it contains a cool Multiplayer optional map, the person that created the game manages to get it properly distributed and it starts to sell well.

He has gone to great lengths to make the look of his game as unique as possible using custom sound, models, and so on.

Those that buy the game are mainly induced to do so by it's Multiplayer aspect because they want to blast away with friends online.

When they connect they discover it's to a Game List Server run by site called 'fpscreator.com' they see a list of IP's but they cannot join because the game is permanently full, will they also find out that the other IP's hosting games are for other games other than the one they bought? That I don't know.

Anyhow, that they cannot get connected to their game is a real downer for the buyers, some complain, some demand refunds, some write bad reviews on their websites or even gaming websites and many will never buy a sequal game.

While the TGC Game List is fine for us to test multiplayer games, it not at all an ideal solution beyond testing of games.

Our Own Maplist Server

What we really need is a Map List Server functionality of our own which we can run from our own master server.

With something like MultiMap we could create a Multiplayer game with more than one map, buyers of a game could host their own servers and have maps that rotate even.

As a minimum such a system should have options like:

Register (username and password)
Login (with username and password)
Join Internet Game
Join LAN Game
Map Name
Server Name
Server Location
Maximum Players
Current Players
Host Internet Server
Host LAN Server
Refresh Server List
Logout

The Programming Possibilities

I think it's unlikely that TGC will create the above for us, but I'm certain there are users of FPSC that could if we make a combined effort we could get this done fairly fast.

The Map List Server would probably be best coded in PHP/MySQL with something like fakecron to update the list automatically every 5 minutes.

A Map List Launcher could be coded in VB, DBP, C++, Delphi or another language and be used to launch the Multiplayer game.

Anyone interested in this?
Fiberfrag
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 12:09
Yes, We are currently discussing that with Rick and Lee to make a better multiplayer experience in FPSC. We will announce more news when ready.

Fiberfrag

Komet
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 12:10
Who is we exactly? I'm intrigued now
pkburr02
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 12:33
I was wondering would it be difficult to implement a choice of LAN vs Internet game?

I host a lot of LAN parties, and that's the reason i picked up FPSC. Depending on where my friends and I setup we don't always have internet access, so with the way MP maps work FPSC isn't a good choice. Is there anyway to by pass the server lookup without rewriting the software? I have DBPro but i am not even close to being a programmer so scripting something is out of teh question for me personally. I want to start learning DBPro this summer when I have more time.

Stupid people are like Slinkies, it's fun to watch them fall down stairs. And some times you need to give them a push.
Komet
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 12:45
I believe that Lee experienced some trouble in getting the Internet side working and that the LAN was replaced by the Internet option rather than creating options for both.

LAN is something I think should also be added to The Map List Server idea above, I will never use it personally but you and probably a significant number of others would want to so...
pkburr02
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 12:47
Can Komet get Moderator, I mean since he seems to live here and all might as well. lol It's like I barely get my message posted and he's right there behind me.

Stupid people are like Slinkies, it's fun to watch them fall down stairs. And some times you need to give them a push.
Benjamin
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 12:53 Edited at: 15th Mar 2007 12:53
Quote: "I believe that Lee experienced some trouble in getting the Internet side working and that the LAN was replaced by the Internet option rather than creating options for both."

Ironically I could fix this problem myself if I had the latest version of the source code. It's not impossible to have both internet and LAN games listed at the same time, although I do agree with separate options would be good.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
Multisync V1 (DBP/DBCe)
pkburr02
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 12:58
AND TGC needs to hire Benjamin for stuff like this. Then Lee can spend 50% of his time on X10.

And no I wasn't paid for my endorcing of either of these guys, they just rock.

Stupid people are like Slinkies, it's fun to watch them fall down stairs. And some times you need to give them a push.
Komet
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 13:08
Thanks pkburr02 for the compliment but I gave up being a moderator on forums years ago and would probably not have the time in the future, also I don't know enough about the workings of FPSC anyway.
SpyDaniel
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 13:16
Here is part of an email I got back from Lee:

It is unlikely there will be significant additions to the current multiplayer features. They are not often used by FPSC users, and provide basic death match functionality for those who want to experience creating very simple multiplayer shooter games. We are focusing on stability for now, rather than new features, as I believe this will benefit the majority of current users

Doesn't seem like there will be any updates to the multiplayer side until FPSC is as solid as a house brick.
Komet
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 13:29
Thanks for that insight Higgins.

Oh dear, with that kind of attitude allegedly expressed by Lee regarding Multiplayer then things look bleak indeed.

Lee, if you did e-mail the above to Higgins and I'm not doubting Higgins either, could it be that you are very wrong about the appeal of Multiplayer and that it's lack of appeal to users you express is down to it not having functioned in the past?

Add to that its current limitations and I can see why many would not make use of the 1.04 patch version of FPSC's Multiplayer option, they could not connect anyway!

More and more Multiplayer is appealing to a wider audience, games without decent Multiplayer features are rapidly becoming a thing of the past.

No software is ever bug free, at best it just contains bugs that haven't been found or rather surfaced. So while of course stability is highly desired I don't think for a second that you are going to be spending much more development or bug fixing time on FPSC x9, you're in that x10 cave already, I can sense it
FredP
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 13:36
I have to say although I am not freaking out over multiplayer there do seem to be quite a few FPSC users that are interested in it or interested in making MP only stuff.
I don't see where anybody could get the impression that there were not quite a few FPSC users who desire a better MP experience.
Improvements in MP would probably get more people online playing MP games.
However...I do understand the need to make the software as stable as possible.
I can assure Lee and andybody else who wishes to know that there are quite a few members interested in MP.

Benjamin
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 14:07
Quote: "AND TGC needs to hire Benjamin for stuff like this."

I wish. Thank you for the kind comment however.

If Lee can always at least make the latest source available, I'm sure we can try to improve it ourselves.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
Multisync V1 (DBP/DBCe)
Uthink
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 14:39
Quote: "I don't see where anybody could get the impression that there were not quite a few FPSC users who desire a better MP experience."


I actually believe that the percentage of FPSC people doing MP games is small. The reason it seems as though there are a lot, is because those that are doing MP are vocal on the boards. But I'm guessing that postings on this forum do not represent the total community. Anyone know FPSC units sold YTD? While I'm not on these boards nearly as much as most, I've only noticed about 100 different people posting about multiplayer stuff in recent history. Not that it matters much. If sales were driven by MP features, why wouldn't they put more work into it?
dark coder
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 14:55
Quote: "It is unlikely there will be significant additions to the current multiplayer features. They are not often used by FPSC users"


Did you not consider that if the multiplayer were better then more people would use it? I've only used the demo and some games/demos using FPSC but things like no explosive weapons online / no sever side physics etc make it look really tacky. In this day and age Multiplayer is usually what sells a game, if not then it's modability in the case of Oblivion, games like Counter strike Source / Battlefield series are nothing without multiplayer, in fact in source the single player games are just LAN games, overlooking Multiplayer is a serious killer in terms of game play and sell ability, I bet a lot of people get FPSC hoping to make a HL2 like game then realise they can't even make close.

Komet
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 15:02
Quote: "I actually believe that the percentage of FPSC people doing MP games is small."


I don't see a viable basis to assume that now, since the connection issue has been sort of fixed we should see more MP games, and I bet MP games would out number single players if MP had more features.

Quote: "The reason it seems as though there are a lot, is because those that are doing MP are vocal on the boards."


No idea about that, I haven't done such a survey. MP goes hand in hand with single player mode ideally, at least in most new games released by game producers thesedays.

Quote: "If sales were driven by MP features, why wouldn't they put more work into it?"


Because it means a good amount of additional coding to get it right and TGC would prefer to concentrate on x10 and other software?

Here's two questions for you Uthink, what is more successful... Battlefield 2 in MP mode or Battlefield 2 as SP?

People like to play games together, when you were a kid did you play alone?
Uthink
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 20:08 Edited at: 15th Mar 2007 20:09
Quote: "Because it means a good amount of additional coding to get it right and TGC would prefer to concentrate on x10 and other software?"


Since I don't do MPs, I'm kind of asking here..."Have these MP issues existed for a while?" I get the feeling that they have. So I don't subscribe to the x10 perspective. TCG is a business. I stand by the theory of features being market driven.

Quote: "Here's two questions for you Uthink, what is more successful... Battlefield 2 in MP mode or Battlefield 2 as SP?"


If you can create Battlefield 2 in any mode with FPSC, sign me up for a copy! Once again, people need to stop comparing commercial games to FPSC. I don't know about Battlefield, but I know that games like Diablo II (My fav!) cost in excess $5mm to develop. Even the first release of Doom was probably $100-300k. And with very few features.

If you want to have similar features to Battlefield 2, this is the wrong tool. If you're talking about the popularity of MP vs SP, I still feel that out of total titles available in the videogame industry, the majority are SP. I would also note that a lot of MP could be because it's really difficult to do good AI for SP. IMHO
Smitho
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 20:57
Quote: "I have to say although I am not freaking out over multiplayer there do seem to be quite a few FPSC users that are interested in it or interested in making MP only stuff."


I personally gave up usingFPSC for making story based games. I would, however start again, to use the MP function (If it was any good )

Uthink
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 22:17
So are you just doing FP SP run and gun?
Komet
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 22:25 Edited at: 15th Mar 2007 22:27
Uthink, you never did answer the two questions I asked you.

Quote: "Since I don't do MPs, I'm kind of asking here..."Have these MP issues existed for a while?" I get the feeling that they have. So I don't subscribe to the x10 perspective. TCG is a business. I stand by the theory of features being market driven."


So you don't do MP games and don't care what other FPSC users might desire. Yes the issues regarding MP have been around a long long time, your feeling is correct but a read of the forums using 'search' would have told you that. To be fair we have had so many bugs and issues with just Single Player that those took priority in the minds of many, to get each patch released we have to moan alot and do a merry dance it would seem and yet still with the latest patch the bugs are still being erradicated, but no new features have been added. MP has now finally been made to actually connect, and so we see a glimmer of hope, it's been a long road so far and we still have a long way to go so to speak.

Yes TGC is a business, but businesses do underestimate their own products and the market sometimes and are prone to make mistakes like any organisation. Off the top of my head I can see a few areas in which TGC should rethink and this is just regarding one of their products, first increase the price of FPSC as it's way too cheap, second increase the distribution security of the product because it's being pirated increasingly, third increase marketing of the product, fourth improve the product, listen to the people who make the games using it, and finally check out the licensing strategies in use by competitors, implement and undercut.

Quote: "If you can create Battlefield 2 in any mode with FPSC, sign me up for a copy! Once again, people need to stop comparing commercial games to FPSC. I don't know about Battlefield, but I know that games like Diablo II (My fav!) cost in excess $5mm to develop. Even the first release of Doom was probably $100-300k. And with very few features."


I never indicated I wanted to clone BF2, this engine is a long way short of achieving anything like that, however we the users are just beginning to realise the potential that FPSC offers, tools are only as good as the craftsman (which is why my attempts suck). It should be noted that even top commercial games look bland initially and take a long period to make corrections to the engine and develop content. Where are we without our dreams and something to aim for? Just look at what can be achieved with FPSC, best example I've seen is rolfy's Urban Decay.

Quote: "If you want to have similar features to Battlefield 2, this is the wrong tool. If you're talking about the popularity of MP vs SP, I still feel that out of total titles available in the videogame industry, the majority are SP. I would also note that a lot of MP could be because it's really difficult to do good AI for SP. IMHO"


We do have some features that first person shooter games have and this could be improved upon for sure. With respect, the video gaming industry is just coming to grips with the advances in hardware, increases in internet speed, and the growth in MP over SP games. You've got to realise that SP never gives you a good workout and bots are really no competition, yes the AI is difficult and TGC need to make a dollar remember?

Actually I always liked strategy games rather than shoot em ups, that changed when I discovered the fun of team work in in MP games and interacting in a game with real people all over the World, try it, you might like it.
Fiberfrag
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 23:28
Multi-player is a big part of any game. FPSC is no different. When the multiplayer is perfectly fixed it will be a great thing. You will see FPS Creator dedicated server online very soon and much more to come after that. Again when I have more information I will release it....

Fiberfrag

Komet
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Posted: 15th Mar 2007 23:37
Quote: "Multi-player is a big part of any game. FPSC is no different."


Glad we agree on that.

Quote: "You will see FPS Creator dedicated server online very soon and much more to come after that. Again when I have more information I will release it...."


Are you Lee's cousin or something? It says you only joined in Dec 2006 so how comes you have this secret info?
Uthink
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Posted: 16th Mar 2007 01:21
Quote: "Actually I always liked strategy games rather than shoot em ups, that changed when I discovered the fun of team work in in MP games and interacting in a game with real people all over the World, try it, you might like it."


I've played Diablo II with groups. I'm still hoping that Blizzard or someone brings the series back. So I'm not really knocking MPGs. But for the most part, they aren't my cup of tea. Mainly because of time. Syncing up play time with people gets harder as time goes by. I guess if you don't care who you play with, that works.

I go for more complex stories and missions. Since no one in an MPG wants to play the parts of secondary characters etc, you have to go with an SP version.

No matter what the approach, FPSC will always be well behind what people see on Xbox etc. As soon as FPSC adds a cool feature, you can bet that PS3 has already moved forward 2 more steps. So then again we'll find people pushing FPSC to add more stuff. Wondering why they can't have the same features they see in Unreal Tournament #57.
pkburr02
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Posted: 16th Mar 2007 01:32
Blizzard is creating Diablo 3, however doubt the multiplayer play will be like it was in 2. They will probably change it to work more like World of Warcraft or Everquest.

Quote: "No matter what the approach, FPSC will always be well behind what people see on Xbox etc."


I don't think anyone here thinks FPSC is even close to producing Xbox or PS3 quality games. As so many other people have said, why keep comparing FPSC with these platforms in any way? I'm not going to say you get what you pay for because I think FPSC is a great price for what it can do. But I know I never planned on turning out the next Halo or Halflife game.

Stupid people are like Slinkies, it's fun to watch them fall down stairs. And some times you need to give them a push.
Fiberfrag
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Posted: 17th Mar 2007 02:53
No kidding.... D3... Wow

Fierfrag

Marco8
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Posted: 18th Mar 2007 18:41
wooow very nice... I can download now the dedicated server app?
RedneckRambo
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Posted: 18th Mar 2007 19:12
Cool. I'm curious. If all goes well with your FPSC Unleashed, will this be part of it?

Marco8
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Posted: 18th Mar 2007 19:18
When i can download it?
RedneckRambo
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Posted: 18th Mar 2007 19:22
He just said you can't download it. Do you even read the posts that are being replied to you?

Steve J
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Posted: 18th Mar 2007 21:33
Errr, it just looks like a GUI. I don't see any example of how this would actually work really.

pleading and needing and bleeding and breeding and feeding exceeding..where is everybody? trying and lying defying denying crying and dying..where is everybody?
Candle_
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Marco8
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2007 16:42
heyyyy the program is in dev?
ZAKU
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Posted: 27th Mar 2007 23:51
Guys, I think this is an excellent idea, and a nuch needed addition to the overall usability of the multiplayer side of things.

I for one, would pay , or invest some cash in this ,tyler, if you need anyhting , let me know.

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