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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Realms Of Tutopia

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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 27th Mar 2007 00:13
Hey all!

Hopefully one or two of you will remember way back when I was making an RPG called Realms Of Tutopia. Seriously...no one? Lol!
Well having gotten royally frustrated with that I gave up coding for a while...but I'm back! Yay!
I've had a lot of ideas of late and suddenly got a lot of motivation and passion back for game making.

So please welcome back...Realms Of Tutopia! [Applause and cheering] Lol!

Well I am starting afresh. My old code was messy which along with the whole lack of decent media thing was probably the reason I stopped before. I have set myself goals for this game which are far more reachable. I have set high standards in terms of the techinal side of things because, without wanting to sound arrogant, I consider myself a competent enough coder. I have also told myself to accept the fact that the media isn't neccesarily going to be any good and just to live with it. If the game is good enough people won't mind and I may be able to get someone to help out when I have something worthwhile to show.

Well I figured that as people were so incredibly nice and helpful last time, I'd start a thread here rather than in WIP whilst it is in such early stages so that I can have even more motivation to keep going because of wanting to have new stuff to show you lot! Hence this post!

So I guess I'll go through the basics of the new designs.

Tutopipa Edit
The new level editor has many things planned. A to do list is below.
-Terrain
---Import heightmap
---Height editing
---Texture editing
---Light editing
-Plants
---Placement
-Water
---Placement
-Objects
---Placement of scenery
---Placement of openable chests/barrels etc.
---Placement of enterable buildings etc.
-Characters
---Placement of NPCs
---Placement of monster spawnpoints
-Zones
---Placement of zones
-Lights
---Placement
---Colouring
---Range adjustment
---Adding to my new 'light engine'
(I'll explain more on my light engine later.)

Realms Of Tutopia
As before, RoT (damn those initials! Lol!), is going to be heavily combat based. I believe, at least at the time, I was the only person to have made combo based real-time combat in DB and that combat will still be there but vastly improved. There will be the classic 3 styles to choose from; melee, archery and magic. I am planning for archery and magic to be in 1st person mode.

For melee combat, there will be many different swords to collect. Each of these will have a certain capacity for upgrades which are gained via visiting a blacksmith. Upgrades will include possibilities such as:
-Increased damage - Its in the name!
-Increased speed - Once more, i think you can guess!
-Poison - Poisons an enemy till he dies unless he has an antidote in his inventory.
-Improved critical - Increases the likelihood of inflicting double damage.
-Vampire - Returns a percetage of inflicted damage to your health.
Melee combat is fought via combinations of left and right mouse buttons, space,q and e. Left mouse button performs a fast but low damaging attack. Right click performs a slower more powerful attack. The two can be combined in various combos. Space will perform a massive amount of damage to a fallen foe; killing all but the strongest of enemies instantly. E is used to perform an 360 degree attack doing minimal damage but knocking everyone around you out of the way for a short time. Q is used to block.

Many bows will also be available and can also be upgraded in a way similar to the melee weapons. In battle, you will zoom in to 1st person mode and play just like your average 1st person shooter but with the added of fun of watching enemies walking around with arrows sticking out of them and, if all goes to plan, get pinned to walls.

Magic can not be purchased; you must be taught it. There will be all the common types with different upgrades possible via using a type of spell enough that you gain a level in it. For example, use fireball enough and inferno may become available. Different spell types that are planned so far are:
-Fire
-Ice
-Lightning
-Necromancy
-Telekinesis
-Holy
Using magic in combat will also result in the zoomed in 1st person view and again plays like and fps. Though once again, if all goes to plan, this should be really fun seeing the effects of all your spells upclose. Magic though can also be used outside of combat and may be needed to overcome obstacles. I won't say too much for fear of ruining the game.

Outside of combat I am planning for the normal quest solving, helping peasants etc. but I am also going to throw in the bonus of the Prince Of Persia style moves I made in Manuel. These moves will become available whilst in dungeons at least. I haven't yet decided whether there will be any use for them while you are outside.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Well I'm sure there is a lot of stuff I will think of that I wish I had typed as soon as I post this but that'll do for now!

In the meantime, have a vid of the blood effect I am working on so far. The blood works with individual splats that fly off and land on the floor or wall.
http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n304/andrewneale2004/?action=view¤t=blood-1.flv
I'll have a movie or at least screens of Tutopia Edit very soon.

Thanks all!

Andrew (T3H_C0D3R3R)

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 27th Mar 2007 00:27
OK. First screen of Tutopia Edit. Not very far in too development but terrain height editing is almost done. The green cone shows where your mouse is in 3D space and the red cubes show the radius of the brush which can be changed via mouse scroll. Left click raises in a smooth hill and right click lowers. I know there isn't that much there but seriously, the little bit of terrain took literally 5 seconds to make. It is really quick and easy to use.

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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 27th Mar 2007 17:45
Sorry for triple post. Testing sig. Will post new screens for Tutopia Edit later tonight hopefully.

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 27th Mar 2007 20:10
OK. New screeny! All height editing tools done:
-Vert editing=edit vert by vert
-Tile editing=edit tile by tile
-Ring editing=edits all verts within an adjustable radius of the cursor

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filya
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Posted: 27th Mar 2007 20:43
You are really good at this

-- game dev is fun...but taking up too much time --
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 27th Mar 2007 20:49
Thank you! I'm flattered! Its funny how much you can get done when you give up a social life and college work! Lol!

Next up for the level editor is texturing I think. I'm going to make it so that if you add say rock in the middle of some grass then it blends textures between the two so there are no nasty edges. I'll see how that goes and I'll show you later. Also going to add the 'import heightmap' function right now and a function to set the normals so the lighting looks good.

Coder#05
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Posted: 27th Mar 2007 21:30 Edited at: 27th Mar 2007 21:34
Idea sounds realy good.(Especialy the part with implementing the movement from your project Manuel)

And looks like your editor is gonne be great

Quote: "I'm going to make it so that if you add say rock in the middle of some grass then it blends textures between the two so there are no nasty edges.
"


Thats something ive been (not, but sould) trying to figure out.
I will tell you if i do.

Keep up the good work


easy comes easy goes
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 27th Mar 2007 21:48
Thank you!
Quote: "Thats something ive been (not, but sould) trying to figure out.
I will tell you if i do.
"

Good luck. If you can't do it let me know and I'll help you out. I've already got it sussed in my head.

Well I now have smoothing, lighting correction and heightmaps working as shown in the shot. I still need to make a file browser to be used for choosing the heightmap and for saving/loading levels.

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Coder#05
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Posted: 29th Mar 2007 14:05
Quote: "Good luck. If you can't do it let me know and I'll help you out. I've already got it sussed in my head."


Thanks

Quote: "I still need to make a file browser"


Here (link to VUI gui by Zotoaster)
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=94311&b=8

It gots a windows file browser, search for the function fileBrowser.

easy comes easy goes
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 29th Mar 2007 17:40
Thanks but I really like to make everything myself as much as possible. I've already got a good start on it and it will be done by tonight hopefully. Thanks again though anyway.

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 29th Mar 2007 19:01
File browser done! Well near enough...I still want to add a preview window. But the functionality is there. Have a vid of it! This program is coming along quite well imho. Please let me know of any suggestions that you might have.
http://files.filefront.com/tutopiaeditWMV/;7068437;/fileinfo.html

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 29th Mar 2007 21:13
Well I've added the preview now so that is all the height tools completely done! Yay!

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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 30th Mar 2007 20:52
I've now moved on to texturing the terrain. The file browser is now implemented to allow you to choose a terrain texture and set how many tiles to split it into. Screenie attached. Next up is adding functionality to the rest of the texturing GUI I've already made. Then I will possibly add the ability to generate random fractal terrains. Then that will be terrains done! Yay!

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Coder#05
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Posted: 30th Mar 2007 22:05
Looks good, i like the gui.




easy comes easy goes
Turoid
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Posted: 30th Mar 2007 22:15
Yeah very good. Would be awesome if you make something for the texturing like you select a dirt tile and paint it on grass tiles, and it automaticly creates the 'transition tiles' around it. from grass to dirt eeh.. you understand me english..

I am awesome and always right.
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 30th Mar 2007 22:43
Thanks both of you!

@Coder#05 - Thanks; good ol' MSPaint!

@Turoid - Yep! As I mentioned above, that is what I'm planning.

Coder#05
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Posted: 30th Mar 2007 23:41
As for the "mixing" off two texture (grass to rock etc.) Do you make a new texture.? and add that as a new tile to the terrain texture?, or something else.?

Yup MSPaint does work sometimes

Are you planing on making a system that reduces the vertex count off the matrix / terrain? Ive been thinking about making something like that, just got allot off other stuff to do first hehe

Good thing its Easter vacation over here.!



easy comes easy goes
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 31st Mar 2007 00:51
Well there are two possible ways I will make this work. The main plan is that I am using the matrices only in the editor because they are quick and easy to deform. They will then be exported as a heightmap, tomography map and detail map ready for use as advanced terrain or my own terrain system if I get it working. The other possibility is that they will just remain as DB matrices. However, I'm considering the idea of making it so that the matrix you are on will be full detail but will only represent part of the full terrain. The ones immediately next to you have only half the tiles and all the others are hidden entirely. We'll have to see how it goes!

Coder#05
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Posted: 31st Mar 2007 00:58 Edited at: 31st Mar 2007 01:08
Yup

Quote: "However, I'm considering the idea of making it so that the matrix you are on will be full detail but will only represent part of the full terrain"


Good idea.
Ive been thinking about making a system where the matrix is "moveing with the player" and adjusting to a height map(array(x,y).height).
( using a memblock matrix object, and the vertex commands ). But maby this would be slow, i dont know yet.



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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 31st Mar 2007 12:16
Hmm...well its been done with a normal matrix using the old shift matrix commands but should be interesting with a memblock matrix...
Good luck! Let me know how it goes.

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2007 11:16
Sorry I haven't posted in a while but I have been helping with PoPR of late but fear not! I will get some time to work on this soon.

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2007 20:10
Well I've got about 2,000 lines now and terrain editing is just about done. All I've got to do now is look for any bugs and then add anything which I think in hindsight would make it better.
Yay!

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2007 22:12
Well 2190 lines now and, as far as I can tell, terrains are completely finished. Next up; foliage.

filya
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2007 22:19
You are too fast with this.

-- game dev is fun...but taking up too much time --
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2007 23:14
Lol! Thank you. Level editors are kinda my strong point. That and combat... But yeah, learning to touch type really fast helps as well as having a lacking social life! Lol!

Deathead
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2007 00:54 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2007 00:55
hey mate would this thingy of a heaven work on city landscapes and things like texture roads in a place and grass on the sides?

If it does then this would be good for my game Tales of the East: DEAD LANDs....Which sadly isn't gonna be made until i master coding. Damn my dead brain knowledge system.

PLS JOIN I really do
filya
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2007 03:05
Quote: "learning to touch type really fast helps as well as having a lacking social life! Lol!"


hehe...
knowing what to type helps more than knowing how to type fast eh?


Andrew, I have sent you an email. Could you please help me out? Thanks buddy.

-- game dev is fun...but taking up too much time --
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2007 11:36
OK. Problem solved; I've e-mailed you back.

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2007 18:08
@Deathead - Sorry mate. Didn't see your post. Umm...yeh...I'm pretty sure it would. You can stick your own media so with the right models and textures it would be fine.

Deathead
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Posted: 4th Apr 2007 16:48
Cool.. And do u know any good easy tutorials for DBC>Mate. Just a wandering.

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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 4th Apr 2007 21:42
In all honesty, I learnt DBC through the examples included with it and then just altering more and more and learned on my own so sadly I never looked for a tutorial so I don't know any good ones. The best tactic for me was just trial and error and then if I got really stuck I asked on the forums for help. However, I'm quite sure that there are plenty of tuts around.

Deathead
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Posted: 4th Apr 2007 22:21
thanks mate.

PLS JOIN I really do
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 6th Apr 2007 11:56
Well I'm gonna spend any free time today on this rather than PoPR so hopefully I'll have some screens later of the terrain...WITH FOLIAGE! Lol!

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 6th Apr 2007 14:23
Quote: "Thanks but I really like to make everything myself as much as possible."

Hey, I just want to offer my opinion on that train of thought. I totally understand it. However, I don't think that it will help us complete games.

Using bits and pieces from other talented artists and coders is no different really than having someone on your team helping out. As indie coders, the only way that we can succeed in a big project is to support each other. A great way that we can do that is by sharing code and media. If you don't take advantage of that then you automatically exclude a huge resource. Why reinvent the wheel?

That's just my two cents


Come see the WIP!
Benjamin
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Posted: 6th Apr 2007 14:30
Quote: "Why reinvent the wheel?"

Because sometimes it's necessary to know how to make a wheel in case you have to do it yourself sometime. Of course, this doesn't always apply.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 6th Apr 2007 14:37 Edited at: 6th Apr 2007 14:43
I know that. But if that is the case (that you don't know how), then a project won't succeed anyway. There's a lot to be gained from using existing code and plugins in projects.


Come see the WIP!
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 6th Apr 2007 15:18 Edited at: 6th Apr 2007 15:18
Well I like to do it myself for a couple of reasons.
1) Read Benjamin's post
2) Sense of accheivement
3) Sense that I made the project all by myself
If I was doing this professionally and working in a team with deadlines then yeah, I would be more than happy to accept help from others but as it it, I want to learn and accheive as much as possible so that if and when I make it in to the industry there won't be a whole lot that I won't be able to do. It works for me. As it is, without wanting to sound boastful, I'm a pretty darn good coder. And Cash, your last post is a load of rubbish. You can quite easily learn as you go along. I certainly did when I started years ago and it helped because you were learning the new principals in the context of the full program you were building so it made more immediate sense. You are right though, there is a lot to be gained from existing code. However, no offense meant to anyone, a lot of people to the language will be tempted to just copy and paste because it works and won't bother to work out how. As far as learning from plugins goes though...unless they are open source and you know C++ or whatever they are made in then they won't help you learn. I use Sparky's dll a lot but I couldn't honestly say I've learned from it. I do know some C++ though so I may try learning from Cloggy's which is open source.

Well I've rambled now so...

The moral of the story is...

I like to reinvent the wheel as it is a valuable learning exercise.

[Edit]Removed typo! Doh![/Edit]

Benjamin
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Posted: 6th Apr 2007 15:28
Quote: "But if that is the case (that you don't know how), then a project won't succeed anyway. "

It can do if you learn.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 6th Apr 2007 16:59
I totally understand what you're saying, TEH_CODERER. I don't think my post was a load of rubbish. My point really is that we can succeed through mutual support, and a great way of doing that is by using code that others have written. In the process of creating a full game, you'll definitely learn.


Come see the WIP!
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 6th Apr 2007 18:28
Quote: "But if that is the case (that you don't know how), then a project won't succeed anyway."


Quote: "In the process of creating a full game, you'll definitely learn."


Isn't that a contradiction? So if you have to learn whislt making then the project won't succeed but you definately learn whilst making a project. That being the case, no one would ever finish a project!

Well I'm done being picky! I know what you are saying and I was perhaps being harsh when I said it was a load of rubbish. Sorry.

Back on track...I finally have some free time so on with the foliage!

filya
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Posted: 6th Apr 2007 18:56
It very much depends on exactly what you are trying to accomplish I guess.

If you intend to make a game for the purpose of learning, hell yes, do everything on your own.Especially stuff you are weak at. Nothing like making mistakes and remembering the right way to do it for the rest of your life.

But in case you are trying to make a commercial game (and maybe some money with it), copy paste as much as you can. Use all the resources (code and media) you can get your hands on. For anything you can do, there should be someone who can do it better. So get all the better stuff from around you and make a great game.

So I guess both of you (Cash and Coderer) are maybe talking about 2 different aspects of game dev.

-filya

p.s: Just trying to resolve this niggle between 2 great coders

-- game dev is fun...but taking up too much time --
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 6th Apr 2007 19:22
Quote: "p.s: Just trying to resolve this niggle between 2 great coders "

Thanks; I don't want there to be a niggle either. I have a lot of respect for Cash as he has a really rather good project on his hands. I just don't like the idea of passing of other people's work as your end product when you could have done it yourself. I don't recode everything for every new project. I have over 300,000 lines of code sitting on my PC which I have made at some point and whenever any of it is needed I copy and paste from that fairly vast library so that the work is all still my own but I only reinvent the wheel once. As far as media goes, I know there are people far better out there who can produce things that I would never even hope to so I'd happily accept. But as far as coding goes, certainly in DarkBASIC, I very rarely come across anything I really can't do so I see no point in being lazy and not doing it myself.

Right, can we please move on now. If I offended anyone then I'm sorry; it wasn't my intention.

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 9th Apr 2007 11:18
Well the foliage system is coming along but no screens till it is done. I've also had some thoughts because back when I was doing Manuel I mentioned the idea of switching to a Darwinia style of graphics because that would save me annoyance whilst trying to make media so I can just get on with the game. What do you think? Would it take away from the game too much? I hope not because it is always making the media which I'm good enough to that makes me get bored with a project.

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 9th Apr 2007 16:44
Well most of the way there now but I've just realised the added annoyance of making the foliage conform to the terrain each time you update the terran! Grrrr! Oh well! I'll get it soon-ish I think.

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Hey You
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Posted: 9th Apr 2007 18:08
oooo. i do like that plant tool GUI very nice. indeed. maybe if ya set a area and set the density it randomly places the "plants", actually it prob already does. lol Excellent work!!!

HEYYOU......Just the way it is.
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 9th Apr 2007 21:05
Thanks! Yep. You control a ring which conforms to the terrain and you can change the radius of the ring. If you click it adds a plant within the area so you can hold the mouse button till there are enough.

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Posted: 11th Apr 2007 17:08
Right, well finally after a lot of thinking I have settled on a plant system. It should be more efficient than the old one. I'm part way through implementing it now so I'll have some screens when it is done. Sorry, but spare time has been hard to come by of late.

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 12th Apr 2007 18:24
Plant system done! Yay! Not sure what to do next...I'll have a think!

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The ARRAYinator
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Posted: 12th Apr 2007 18:31
Awesome! Keep up the good work



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Posted: 12th Apr 2007 18:35
Thanks! Well I think the next thing I will do is work on the Matrix-to-Advanced Terrain conversion function. Basically it will generate a heightmap from the matrix and a topography map from the texturing with shadows cast from the hills and any objects placed. Hmm...so maybe I should do object placement first...

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