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Work in Progress / -= TerrainScape =-

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Ian T
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Posted: 18th Jul 2007 16:58
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That seems more the work of a world editor than a terrain editor to me. If he spent time implementing scripting options and stuff like that most people wouldn't use anyway, it'd detract from the development of the actual landscaping tools.

My two cents.
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Alquerian
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Posted: 18th Jul 2007 18:42
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Nabil - The idea of having a script test area is a real possibility. If I have enough people who are interested in it, I will implement it. I will consider it, even if I don't get too much of a response. As Ian T pointed out, it is more for a World Editor than a Landscape Editor, however many do not know that TerrainScape is just short of a world editor. It has object placement, object creation, size/scale/rotation of objects, addition/deletion of objects, and soon it will have sky/fog/sun/weather controls. So in a sense, he is correct but it might be something that is worthwhile to add in the future.

Unfortunately I will not release the source code with the exception of a source and rights buyout. TerrainScape has a lot of potential and to release the source in such a niche market would be detrimental to my fiscal goal. I hope you can appreciate this.

However, I will provide loading source code and module for object placement and for creation of the terrain itself.

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Sixty Squares
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Posted: 18th Jul 2007 18:44 Edited at: 18th Jul 2007 18:44
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Quote: "That seems more the work of a world editor than a terrain editor to me. "


It is. It's the Warcraft III World Editor .

Maybe someone could make a separate program that is able to import terrains made with this program and add hotspots to them....

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Alquerian
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Posted: 18th Jul 2007 21:40
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Quote: "Maybe someone could make a separate program that is able to import terrains made with this program and add hotspots to them....
"


That is not a half bad idea. If I do not develop something like this into the application, I could alway release it as a mini-project with source.

I am headed up north to Portland and Vancouver for a few days. I have some sites that I am planning on photographing. I will probably have a little bit of content when I return

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Nabil
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Posted: 19th Jul 2007 13:58
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Well the screen sceneary is made with WorldEditor of Warcraft III. But only to demonstrate what AREAS/Rects are. And how they could be placeable by TerrainScape.

if there are objects and areas placeable, then there is room for mission scripting. using the placed objects for scripting.

even if there is no "scripting" box (that is what i would add), i would really like to see placeable (and nameable) areas.

-Nabil/BananaAcid- The Banana has you...?!
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jason p sage
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 03:40 Edited at: 20th Jul 2007 03:42
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Alquerian - I'm just reiterating that I can't wait to try this software of yours - and frankly - the talk about world editor features - to me - seems like a module kinda thing.

If I could make a request - it would be to get a working TerrainScape Beta/Product out - so we can build terrains and you can start making some dough.

With that base - as you've already eluded to - adding "Scripting" or whatever you want to call it - is - if anything (to me) a drop "on top of" kinda deal. I mean you have all this cool "Visual Stuff", baked textures, high frames, Ground height (somehow) Ground size - tree placement I'm assuming -

If any of us had the code to load the "file(s) for a terrain level - then in theory WE have the necessities to "draw" "world" (or place) World stuff within the confines of the TerrainScape.

I would consider getting a group of interested parties into a competition for afully registered copy of the software - providing them with only 2 or 3 sample TerrainScapes (your saved Data files of course) and some sample code (DBPro likely) to load and allow basic navigation through - with source code - so people can see how to manipulate the created worlds.

...Well - ... you get the idea. Enough people like your product already ... (and its not even out - pretty good bro!) .. myself included... that you could more or less recruit help - and integrate "decent" (the winner(s)) code into your system - as modules - separate from the your "MAIN" engine - but hooks to allow them to coexist - one interface - etc etc.

Just some thought. P.S. You didn't tell me how good /awful my music is/was (I bet shabby - but I'm a hobby player.. and have fun at it when time permits)

Regardless - I'm still very anxious for trying your first release if possible - of TerrainScape.

Thanx
Jason

[edit]I've attached a screen shot of WHY I need your software you might need to DL because edit posts note "view" right when you click view button in times past[/edit]

Know way too many languages - Master of none

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Alquerian
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2007 20:01
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Quote: "I'm just reiterating that I can't wait to try this software of yours - and frankly - the talk about world editor features - to me - seems like a module kinda thing. "


Thank you, and many of the world features are going to be add-on modules. If I try to release them all with TerrainScape I will never finish it!

Quote: "If I could make a request - it would be to get a working TerrainScape Beta/Product out - so we can build terrains and you can start making some dough."

Perfectly understandable, and doable. I am working on that as we speak (while working on WeedWorks).

Quote: "Just some thought. P.S. You didn't tell me how good /awful my music is/was (I bet shabby - but I'm a hobby player.. and have fun at it when time permits) "

Some of your work was pretty good I don't think the style is what I would use on my current game I am working on, but perhaps a future project. I can't remember which one it was, but it had some real potential (I think it was pizzy).

Quote: "I've attached a screen shot of WHY I need your software you might need to DL because edit posts note "view" right when you click view button in times past"

Eeek! I feel your pain! That project looks like it has some potential however. I have some work to do on the interface of TerrainScape, but I will release a public version as soon as I can (it is definately at least a few weeks out).

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Alquerian
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Posted: 27th Jul 2007 19:34
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I returned earlier this week from a cross-state adventure, where I took a few hundred photos for my floral packs, WeedWorks and TerrainScape.

The photographs you see here span from Weed California to Portland Oregon/Vancouver Washington area (about an 8 hour drive from my home).

This photograph was taken because of it's range in lighting across the landscape, namely it's receptive shadows.


Here are some photos that I had taken for my waterfall studies:



And this one here is after a 2 mile hike up the mountain to the top of the waterfalls looking downward... This one made me a bit dizzy!


I took 3 or 4 HighDef videos from the base, halfway up and from above the waterfalls. I would be happy to share them with anyone who is interested. These photos and videos are a fieldwork study of both terrains and water and they are being used as guides for making realistic terrains, pools, waterfalls, creeks etc.

******************************************************************
What is the current status of TerrainScape?

I am working on fixing up the interface and porting over the WeedWorks code so that users can create grass and vegetation then place them directly in TerrainScape. It is coming along nicely, but it is going to be a lot of work. Please hang in there folks!

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 27th Jul 2007 19:44
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Looks amazing! I can't wait until these go into terrainscape! Great work!


DarkDev- Team Requests, forums, galleries, and more
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Alquerian
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2007 00:06
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Thanks Xeno, I have been working on WeedWorks so much lately that I haven't had a chance to really do a lot with TerrainScape. I will get back with it once I have WeedWorks ironed out a bit.

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Alquerian
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2007 01:02
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TerrainScape is not dead, it is just much, much delayed due to more work being given to me. I am working on some Java games at the moment, and I would be working on TerrainScape and WeedWorks, however the Java games pay the bills

Those of you who are waiting for TS to be finished, you may be waiting awhile, and those who are just casually observing, observe away and post your comments at your leisure

If anything is time-sensitive, feel free to email me.

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jason p sage
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2007 02:10
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What? WHAT? Bills before Terrain Scape?

Java over DBPro and DarkGDK! Absurd!

I'm just kidding. I have a job, family, ...ugh... responsibilities also and as much as I like being in my CodeSurge and DBpro (And even DarkGDK) Life is life - bills are bills - and work pays them bills sometimes... so I for one completely understand! I'll just casually observe for now

On another note - how the Heck do you get paid for writing Java Games? I'm stuck writing code for business systems, CRM systems, stuff for sales people to track their clients etc.

Good Luck Alquerian,
I for one and routing for ya!


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Dazzag
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2007 09:11
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Quote: "how the Heck do you get paid for writing Java Games? I'm stuck writing code for business systems"
Yeah, was curious myself. Not that I'm complaining about business systems; I bought my place with it, but would be a nice angle. Always thought about it (esp. phone games) but never seriously considered it would be good enough to give up the day job. Tell us more...

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
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Alquerian
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2007 18:50
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Quote: "how the Heck do you get paid for writing Java Games?"

I really do not know how I get these jobs. They almost always find me, I honestly don't actively pursue them.

Quote: "Not that I'm complaining about business systems; I bought my place with it, but would be a nice angle."

Really? That is really nice! I actually bought my first home with work that I did with DBP (I don't have a second home mind you). The work I did was rather tedious and not really my cup of tea, but hey it paid the bills.

Quote: "Always thought about it (esp. phone games) but never seriously considered it would be good enough to give up the day job. Tell us more..."

Well, writing apps and games is not my day job. I have been working for a college here in Northern California for 7 years now, and I have been doing contractual programming jobs on and off for about 5 years of that time. The college pays well enough, it just doesn't satisfy my hunger for curiosity and leaves me feeling with a lack of accomplishment at the end of the day, this is why I work on simulators, games and tools. It is just dumb luck that I get paid to do so

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Dazzag
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2007 19:50
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Quote: "I actually bought my first home with work that I did with DBP"
You bought an entire house outright with work that you did in DBP? Really? You weren't responsible for that driving test software were you?

Personally I haven't done anything that got me money (or finished anything actually...) in DBP. On the other hand the main language I use at work (trust me, you will never have heard of it) made me enough to buy this flat in Cyprus and work as a contractor from home.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
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Alquerian
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2007 21:07 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2007 21:08
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Quote: "You bought an entire house outright with work that you did in DBP? Really? You weren't responsible for that driving test software were you?"

It wasn't enough to buy it outright, but it paid a few bills and covered the down-payment. I did not write the driving test software, though I know what software you are talking about. I can't talk about that particular project as I am still under an NDA. When the NDA terms are up, I will be happy to talk about it

Edit: BTW, what language is it that you are working with? (I know you said I probably won't know and you are probably right)

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Dazzag
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2007 22:26
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It's a variant of the Unix business basics (Universe and all that IBM stuff being one that springs to mind). Variant we use is called Thoroughbred Basic. Been around for donkeys years in one form or another. More popular in the US, but in the UK it's mainly travel systems and systems for those people on TV that say they can sue your company if you break your leg etc apparently. And something to do with the health service I heard. Makes us more valuable though as it is our main language for one of the legacy systems (Fortran and Delphi are the other ones). I've been doing it for 12 years, but the Fortran boys are still kicking after 20+ years

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Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
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jason p sage
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Posted: 24th Aug 2007 03:46
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@DAZZAG - I remember on HP UX having to significant work with a language named "Synergy DiBoL" Old Digital takeoff of cobol. Fun is. hehe


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Dazzag
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Posted: 24th Aug 2007 18:43
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Well one advantage is no-one knows the language pretty much.

Downside is even though we have websites that link to the legacy systems and CRS systems through APIs and C++/Java Muxes people will still pay a *lot* of money when they hear words like "Client server" (aren't they all?), "Oracle database" (actually I read that Oracle were going to incorporate some of Universe's (same thing really) file and record handling functionality into their next big release), and "next gen technology" (even though most of what they do happily is green screen stuff).

The project we did for AirMiles a few years ago (stupidely built from the ground up with a few dozen (about 60 I believe) work shy expensive contracters - substitute one vowel in that word for another vowel to see what we used to call them. Amusingly I am technically one now...) cost about £4m ($8m) for example, and all the new stuff makes that look like pocket money.

Quote: "I remember on HP UX having to significant work with a language named "Synergy DiBoL" Old Digital takeoff of cobol"
Never heard of it. Although I did use Cobol a while back (on a PC in DOS using Sidekick if I remember rightly). Thats another of the (dead though) legacy systems. I remember getting over 600 compile errors from one misplaced comma We use mainly IBMs and Aviions.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
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Alquerian
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Posted: 24th Aug 2007 19:28
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Funny, we are running an old version of BASIC on our MIS here on campus. It stemmed from IBM as well, as is their original database software; UniBASIC and UniData. It is funny to think that our institution has spent in excess of $1M on software which is built off a 30 year old interpreter language. Go figure...

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Dazzag
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Posted: 24th Aug 2007 20:18
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Quote: "UniBASIC and UniData"
Yeah, thats what Universe was built on I believe.

Quote: "It is funny to think that our institution has spent in excess of $1M on software"
I think our most expensive legacy system based on Thoroughbred was sold for around $4M.

Quote: "built off a 30 year old interpreter language"
I always used to get quoted "semi-interpreted" or somesuch off the salesman. They always harped on about the newer editors and robust built in release procedures. We never bothered because we wrote our own better ones (they are written in the same language even) although we aren't supposed to. All I know is it is pretty speedy with file handling (well it should do for a "business" basic) if you know what you are doing and string handling is pretty good. Plus it is easy as hell to fix something on the fly (although nowadays you have to bypass the release procedures, which is pretty easy if you wrote the software to enforce it...).

Aha, the VB 2008 Express edition beta v2 has finished installing. Time to see if it really does work ok in Vista (VB is the other main thing I use)...

Cheers

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Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
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Diggsey
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Posted: 24th Aug 2007 21:29
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@Dazzag
VB is my favourite language


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Alquerian
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Posted: 24th Aug 2007 21:39
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I have done oodles of work with VB, I just haven't touched it in years. Great language.

Curiosity got me and I started poking around in my data files and it looks like we too are running UniVerse, v8.3 actually. It is new to this institution as of 6 months ago and I haven't really dug around it yet. Pretty old stuff...

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Dazzag
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Posted: 24th Aug 2007 23:12 Edited at: 24th Aug 2007 23:14
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Quote: "we too are running UniVerse"
Not my department. Thats one of the other legacy systems (our company tends to buy other ones) supported from Brighton. We bought them (about 100 people) about a year before we were bought out ourselves. Only dealings I had was a 3 day course in Universe in case of cross developing between the systems. Offices were great though. Windows facing the inside of the building showed this massive hanger where another company tests stuff on planes. Kinda weird, but cool when you normally look at a train track when you are programming away

Quote: "Pretty old stuff"
Yep. Late 70's, early 80's tech I believe. Just most of the early travel systems were programmed in it. And 100's of companies later and thousands of programs later it's hard to let go. Especially when everything works fine for years, is fine with the web, can be fixed in no time, and costs an absolute fortune in time and money to replace. Plus the travel industry runs at snail pace when it comes to tech. A lot of places still use VTX sets (based on Teletext systems that have been used on UK TVs for decades and looks like a retarded dumb terminal, which is what it is really) and I even do largish (only $100k tops these days though really as we do a lot more web stuff these days) mods for them.

Cheers

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Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
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Advancement Games
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Posted: 25th Aug 2007 00:20
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Is there a demo of this out, just wondering.
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Dodic
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Posted: 25th Aug 2007 00:36
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That's really incredible Will have to get one of those!

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Alquerian
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Posted: 25th Aug 2007 00:52
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Quote: "Is there a demo of this out, just wondering."
Sorry no demo yet, I have decided to release a fully functional free version though, it will just have a resolution limit for heightmaps. I am not sure when I will release that though, I am kinda busy playin on forums and writing other apps I will see what I can do though!

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Alquerian
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2007 02:36
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This is still alive and kicking, I have done a little work on this over the past few days, and likely more to come this week. Perhaps even some new screenies

I have been swamped with work on a couple of other projects which have neared completion. I think I will be working a bit on the UI to clean it up a bit so it is a little less cumbersome to use.

Things are looking good, and no, I am not dead!

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Diggsey
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Posted: 4th Oct 2007 00:20
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Yay


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game master 07
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Posted: 8th Oct 2007 00:46
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Wow. Its been quit awhile since iv last posted in these forums.The last time I posted was right before summer started! Anyway I have a question. Could you just upload terrainscape now and post an update to it later?

gm07
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Alquerian
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 22:41
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Quote: "Could you just upload terrainscape now and post an update to it later?
"

Sorry, I do not want to do that just yet. The UI is in the middle of being re-worked and it would make little to no sense for most people in it's current form. I have had some pressure from a few game developers out there to get this and WeedWorks running again I won't mention any names

Today I will be working mostly on alpha maps, some of which I will share with the community at no charge. I will keep you guys posted

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Alquerian
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 22:59
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This is a video I made at a game dev conference in Texas, this is really where I got a lot of my inspiration for TerrainScape. Their editor is part of Hero's Journey and their entrance package costs in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. I figured I would make mine a little cheaper hehe.

Anyways here is a link to the Youtube video I posted about it, I asked a few questions in the video and tried to keep the camera steady!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u0Q-Ybk6AE

Enjoy!

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Alquerian
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 22:36
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I just finished uploading 2 videos to youtube demonstrating the usage of object placement and erasing using manual painting and programatic placement.

Here is the first one which shows object placement and fractal, programatic Terrain Generation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paDiGWBic-Y

And here is the second which illustrates placement, and the Eraser tool, which erases objects from the scene in a scrub-brush sort of way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9GouOTKK-k

Please bear in mind that youtube does not do these videos justice and that they are of older versions of TerrainScape. Some may find them boring, others who follow this thread may be quite excited to see it in action

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Slooper
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 23:19
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Quote: "Sorry, I do not want to do that just yet. The UI is in the middle of being re-worked and it would make little to no sense for most people in it's current form. I have had some pressure from a few game developers out there to get this and WeedWorks running again I won't mention any names "


This is good news Alquerian as you cant give up on these 2 applications as they are very promising both of them. Guess other ppl than me are happie about the news that the development isnt dead.

Cheers


You never fail, only make mistakes.
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Alquerian
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Posted: 12th Oct 2007 01:02
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Thanks Sloop

Today I spent a bit of time with TS and worked with modifying Satellite Imagery of the grand canon (I think the images actually came with Ogre's PLSM). I scaled the images down to 1024x512 (as 4096x2048 tends to bog down DBP), I then imported them and modified them a bit with some dodging and burning, and heightmap extrusions. And these are the in-editor results:








I am not yet sure when I will offer the public *free* version of this, but I do promise to continue working on it until I get to that point. I appreciate the support!

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jason p sage
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Posted: 12th Oct 2007 01:35
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Wow - Looking really cool Alquerian! I loe the object placement. I have to do that individually with my T.Ed.

Glad you're at the helm again!


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Alquerian
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Posted: 17th Oct 2007 02:31
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Thanks Jason -

I have spent the last 2 days making alpha maps of my hundreds of photographs. I have made about 70 high-resolution alpha maps since yesterday, they really turned out nicely. I will be giving some of them away for free, but I need to really get some sellable packs put together so I can fund my hobby.

I hope to have them done tomorrow! I will upload them and link them as soon as I can

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jason p sage
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Posted: 11th Dec 2007 15:24
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I have the packs - they are great. I need you to tell me when Terrain Scape is ready if possible. Even if only 70% - because if you're commited - I'll but my license now - but I would like the cost of all your graphics packs - included so I can make one purchase - and reserve my spot in both the "True GFX pack customer" and "Licensed User for Terrainscape" - Hopefully for life

Basically - All the editors I use now - aren't native to DBPro/DarkGDK - so there are issues - one way or another that don't always translate well.

So - yeah - I'm REALLY REALLY interested still!


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Alquerian
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Posted: 11th Dec 2007 20:35
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Jason - TerrainScape is far from dead. I am putting forth a lot of effort in trying to tie DBP to another interface (VB or PureBasic or something of the like). Due to a problem with BlueGUI I have halted production of TS until I have a GUI solution which will work better with my needs. I have been doing some reading with DarkGDK[.net] and I am sure it will suit my needs, but I do not know if I want to fork out that much for licensing (when it becomes available).

I have also done a lot of reading about embedding a DBP rendering window within VB.net through the use of Create File Map commands and I am trying to figure out the Make Bank commands as well.

some information on this can be found here:

Batvink's post:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=106475&b=10
and here at JasUK70's post:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=68687&b=1

I am really pursuing this on multiple fronts, I will not give up until I find what I am looking for. I know this will require a lot of work by me but I am up for the task.

On the PureBasic front, Mistrel is working on a WinCallback DLL which, if I understand correctly, will allow for the appropriate communication between DBP and PureBasic.
Here is his thread on that matter:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=118860&b=1

I have prodded a few of the GUI developers here on the forums to continue development of their WIPs, but things don't ever seem to pan out.

The last solution (which would likely offer the best performance, but at the highest financial cost) would be to wait for DarkGDK.net to be a reality for myself. This would be expensive because the licensing for it is $499 IIRC and then I would also have to purchase a non-express edition of Visual Studio.net (another additional expense). If I were simply giving this away, the licensing wouldn't be a problem.

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jason p sage
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Posted: 11th Dec 2007 23:10
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Luv ya Bro - Peace out - My Wife says Hi!


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Demon000
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Posted: 11th Dec 2007 23:46 Edited at: 12th Dec 2007 14:36
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May I ask what was the problem with BlueGUI?
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