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3 Dimensional Chat / The Future of RealTime 3D!...gasp!...

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DrFx
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Posted: 17th May 2003 19:08
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Ok, what lies ahead beyond textures, lightmaps, etc?...
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1091416,00.asphttp://graphics.ucsd.edu/~henrik/
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actarus
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Posted: 17th May 2003 19:32
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Yup,gasp!

Caught by the Fuzz,well I was,still on my buzz
In the back of the Van,with my,head in my hands
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Mentor
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Posted: 17th May 2003 21:42
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oh goody, raytracing!, now thats what I would call a 3d card , mind you the last raytracer I used didnt refract a beam of light into its component colours, hope it`s better than that (yes...I do want a lot)

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DrFx
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Posted: 17th May 2003 21:58
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Quote: "oh goody, raytracing!, now thats what I would call a 3d card "


Even better than raytracing, photon mapping! The second link above the picture is the webpage of a guy whop does research on this.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th May 2003 02:21
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sorry to burst your bubble by GI & Raytracing are already in realtime thanks to the NV30 & NV35 chipsets...
infact have been for a good year for the community and almost 2 for those working with the Shader Technologies.

you'd be surprised at what you can achieve when you eleviate the main processors abilities, anyone with a high-end GPU now effectly has 2 CPUs in thier machine capable of the same level of calculations.
that said the picture provided is not photon mapping (GI) its Raytracing, i can explain how i know that but i'll let you try to figure it out first

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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DrFx
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Posted: 18th May 2003 02:40
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Quote: "that said the picture provided is not photon mapping (GI) its Raytracing, i can explain how i know that but i'll let you try to figure it out first
"


I won´t argue that you can have realtime raytracing nowadays, as a reflective raytraced object uses basically a procedural map (the raytrace material). But perhaps you should have read the page where I got that sample from. That picture in particular is not rendered in real-time, but the author(Henrik Wann Jensen) achieved similar results in "real" real-time renderings. And you're also partially true, the pic does use raytracing, but it also uses soft shadows, caustics(photon mapping) and GI.
From the Jensen page:

"Cornell box series showing the effect of simulating global illumination. All the images have been rendered at 1024x768 with 4 samples per pixel on a Dual P3 800MHz Linux-PC. The ray tracing version took 1.5 seconds, The version with soft shadows took 7 seconds. Adding caustics increased the rendering time to 10 seconds and 2 seconds of photon tracing. The global illumination version took 12 seconds to render and 3 seconds of photon tracing time. For this scene the global photon map has 200,000 photons and the caustics photon map has 50,000 photons.

Finally, the path tracing reference image on the right took a long time to render. The important thing to notice is that it looks the same as the version rendered using photon mapping."

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DrFx
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Posted: 18th May 2003 02:52
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The "real" real-time, courtesy of nVidia and Stanford University:



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APEXnow
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Posted: 18th May 2003 04:09
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It's about time. I've seen scenes generated with POVRay that'll make your jaw drop. When 3D hardware can do this kind of calculation in real time. We will not be able to tell the difference between the dream world, and the real world..... Hang on, I've heard this before.... Blue pill, red pill,..... Ahh yesh, Now I remember..... Ahhhhhoooooogggghhhhhhssssss ( Welcome to the real world LOL)

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th May 2003 08:56
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well i think i have a few words to say to some of the nDev community - but well atleast i can take solis in the fact that their renderings look pretty piss quality.

something i've always disliked when people do these things i they can't make the effects as cleanly as they appear in real-life (so no worries about needing the blue pill yet)
nVidia release a demonstration of my Luma'Sha engine on monday's release of the FX 5900 and i think you'll be able to see the difference between realtime raytrace/gi/photonics and my Luma'Sha
you think games look sweet now ... i think you'll be pleasently surprised

have a screenshot of the test program i made for it, with a swat guy breaks into a house and you see some of the effects at work ... especially when he lets ripp in the kitchen to kill a mouse

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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APEXnow
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Posted: 18th May 2003 14:52
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Raven, I bet that looks sweet, and funny! Any chance of a glimpse?

"Man who looses key to woman's appartment...... He get no nookie" - A wise chinese man.
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Posted: 19th May 2003 20:24
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<puts on cracked old voice> In my day we would have called it raytracing with caustics/highlights, thats not an accurate picture though, there should be some slight "rainbow" at the edge of the refracted highlight, like I say, you can USUALY spot a raytraced image by some deficiencies like prisms or point shadow bridges don`t work in raytracer land, you can fake em, but they arent there in the engine its`self, if you have some render software then try it, put a beam of light through a glass prism and place two rounded objects very close to one another (like fingertips nearly touching), you won`t get a rainbow from the prism and no shadow between the nearly touching objects, you can try this yourself, bring your fingertips close together and just before they touch a "shadow" forms in the gap when it gets too close for a lightwave to fit inside, raytracers assume lightrays are simple lines to save on math.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 20th May 2003 12:08
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i know what you mean mentor... it was something i was determined to reproduce within my own Rendering engine, i'm sure the current results will be seen soon enough when Milkshape2 is released.

Raytracing, GI, Radiosity Engines etc... don't take into consideration the refraction specifics of light, as the refraction and reflection of the lightbeams changes its frequency and with it the colour and power of the projected image

however Multipass Renders do a very good reproduction job of it which i've been working towards using ... if anyone has the nvSDK or Cg Toolkit will no doubt have seen the realtime multipass Fresnel Reflection/Refraction example. That accurately depics the colour balance within the object - only is using the skybox maps to achieve it. Isn't raytracing or actual casting of anykind.
Fortunately the GeForceFX chipsets Light Shaders actually allows far faster light routines, which can allow for a second pass of the colour, you add a third pass caustic and you have some very impressively realistic effects that these guys aren't even close to achieving.

i'm sure it'll only be a matter of time until the majority of users catchup with the nVidia Alpha Development Community but for now guess your stuck to waiting for what nVidia release as showing the power of the cards.

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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AlecM
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Posted: 22nd May 2003 23:55
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Raven, im pretty sure that that IS GI. Notice the sharing of color between to floor and walls.

Goto http://www.shellshockede.com
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