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3 Dimensional Chat / Caligari GameSpace worth it?

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zenassem
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Posted: 17th Apr 2007 17:02
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Just thought I'd ask people here what they think about it. You guys would truly have the best knowledge.

It falls well within my budget range. But if I'm going to pay $250.00 I want to make sure that it's a tool I'm going to use and that it's worth putting effort into.

I've created meshes in modeling packages but have never tried rigging, nor texturemapping. Can I do this directly inside GameSpace? UVunwrapping?

I've tried out a few modeling packages including
- Milkshape - Just wasn't for me
- Blender - Did my best work here, but never truly got proficient with the interface. Lot's of models trashed from holding the wrong key, and/or clicking the wrong button.
- Lightwave 5.0 - Really great stuff, but at the time my computer was really chugging on it. Seemed to fit more for Rendered 3D production than low poly gaming. Can't afford to purchase later versions.
- 3DStudio Max (student version)- Umm yeah. Cool stuff, but maybe too much muscle for me again. Plus the fact that I knew I wasn't going to be able to invesrt in the full version + addons like Character Studio.
- Poser - Great High Poly human models, especially those from Daz3d. But not really great for game models.
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tyrano man
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Posted: 17th Apr 2007 18:45 Edited at: 17th Apr 2007 18:47
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Gamespace is a great modeller (I have it) but it is not that good at UV mapping, but can be done (just use Lithunwrap with it).
Rigging and animation is reasonably easy once you get used to it with pupeteer (comes with V1.6).

You can download gamespace light which is similar to gamespace but has a few tools lessened in power, can only save and export objects with 650 polys or less, and leaves a water mark on your renders. Try this for a while before you purchase gamespace. But trust me it really is worth it.

Tyrano


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zenassem
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Posted: 17th Apr 2007 19:15
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Thanks for the information Tyrano. Much appreciated.

I'll give gamespace light a try, to see if I like the layout and dev cycle.

~zenassem
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 17th Apr 2007 19:18
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I used to use TrueSpace, which is the same, but with different features, its a good application, it isn't my favourite for organic works, but it is quite capable for it. Unfortunately my version of TS 5.2 was quite buggy, but since then GS and TS are much more stable.

Did The Buddha have a Zen micro?
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wildbill
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Posted: 17th Apr 2007 19:28
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Zenassem I know you do a lot of 2d stuff, if you goto http://reinerstileset.4players.de/ he has some cool tutorials on using truespace to make 2d work. Truespace is virtually identical to gamespace.

I have used both Truespace 6.3 and Gamespace.tyrano man is correct about the UV mapping. Puppeteer is pretty cool though.
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zenassem
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Posted: 17th Apr 2007 20:38
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@Seppuku Arts & wildbill

Greay info. Of course it brings me to ask another question.

Truespace or Gamespace?

I'll search but I'm guessing there's a significant price difference.

@wildbill

Yeah, I pretty much stick with alot of 2D stuff. I've used some of Reiner's animations on ideas I work on. I didn't know he had tutorials there.

That's the main reason I need to get a modeling package and stick with it. Because even, if I want to use 2D sprites, it makes much more sense to capture images of 3D models. It's just takes too much time for me to create the amount of animation frames that I need in 2D by hand. Plus if the work is in 3D form to start it offers up more exciting possibilities and speed when thinking in terms of DBpro.
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wildbill
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Posted: 17th Apr 2007 20:59
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The good thing about Reiner's examples is you don't have to worry about polygon count. You can make your models as detailed as need be and export the picture for use in 2d. I've even tried using some of his sprites for billboard animations, they look cool.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 17th Apr 2007 21:34
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Ig you're going for TrueSpace, go for 6.6 or newer, I'd probably recommend it, more features to play with and better animation tools, compare the featurss of the two. Also, look on the caligari website every so often, they like to make amazing offers almost every month.

Did The Buddha have a Zen micro?
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Shadow Coderer
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Posted: 17th Apr 2007 22:35
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Hell yes!

And if you were looking for a little more than simply a response to the title of your post then read on!
Gamespace has a wonderful interface and modelling with it is so easy... I love it!
Its animation is capable, and does the job but will be much improved in v2 which will hopefully be out soon.
Its rendering is like a wet slap with a cold fish, but I really doubt thats what you are looking for anyway.
The major advantage of Gamespace is its game related tools. Its got loads of extra features for sprites, texture baking and exports that truespace simply doesnt have. Although the core app maybe much better (truespace 7.5), it does not include some of the neccesities that game developers need. Therefore, do not consider truespace unless you desperately want to render out cutscenes and such, and if you have the money for the gamepak which adds the exports and other features.
Gamespace v2 looks set to be a massive improvement, its core engine is the same as truespace 7.5 and all of the features that were complained about such as uv mapping are likely to be much improved.

"Psst! Brian! There's a message in my alphabet soup. It says, 'oooooooooo!'"
"Peter, those are Cheerios."
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zenassem
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Posted: 17th Apr 2007 22:45 Edited at: 17th Apr 2007 22:56
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EDIT: The prices added up real quick with Expandable modules in Truespace vs. GameSpace + addons. So for now it looks like GameSpace for me.

Is there any difference between the download offered at TGC for $249.99 and the $299.99 price at Caligari??

===================================

Another great response. I'll definately want the the game features. So now it's a question of price and whether I'll need the functionality that truespace+gamepak has over gamespace. At least now I know what I'm looking at.

At least it looks like I'd have a good product regardless of my choice.

Last consideration is that I do like to purchase through TGC, and have my purchases in my order history. They've been really good about providing support on purchases I had in the past.
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Shadow Coderer
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Posted: 17th Apr 2007 22:56
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Depends on your choice I suppose. Obviously, truespace isnt available through TGC. Also, like Seppuku arts said, there are some fantastic offers on the caligari website. Infact, I seem to remember that if you sign up for the newsletter on the gamespace website, you'll get exclusive offers or at the very least, be the first to hear about any offers available.
Good luck!

"Psst! Brian! There's a message in my alphabet soup. It says, 'oooooooooo!'"
"Peter, those are Cheerios."
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zenassem
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Posted: 17th Apr 2007 22:58
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Shadow,

I was editing while you posted.


Do you know if there is any difference between the the download offered here @ $249.99 and the $299.99 price at caligari.

Does it exclude you from any upgrades or options if you buy it through TGC?
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KeithC
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Posted: 17th Apr 2007 23:50
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Keep in mind that there are a few issues with exporting .X animations specifically; however the current work-around seems to be to use either Milkshape or Fragmotion. If you want decent rendering capabilities (TS uses Lightworks), then you'll want to go with TrueSpace (6.6) and get the extra Pak. GameSpace 2 is far down the road, as they haven't even begun working on it yet; though it will be based off of TS 7.5. The good news there, is that they allow you to upgrade later on if you want (from both TS and GS).

Like Seppuku said though, wait for a juicy offer.

-Keith



Ozark Games
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th Apr 2007 00:11
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Quote: "Like Seppuku said though, wait for a juicy offer"


Hehe, that's how I got my copy, at the time $90 for TS 5.2, pretty good deal.

Did The Buddha have a Zen micro?
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tyrano man
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Posted: 18th Apr 2007 09:27
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yeah if you don't want to get it right now; wait till the christmas sales where you get like $100 off.


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Shadow Coderer
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Posted: 18th Apr 2007 19:37
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Quote: "Does it exclude you from any upgrades or options if you buy it through TGC? "

Quite possibly... but then again, perhaps you should email either caligari or tgc (preferably caligari) and ask them.
Quote: "GameSpace 2 is far down the road, as they haven't even begun working on it yet; though it will be based off of TS 7.5."

Actually, the forum moderator at the gamespace website gives the impression that it has been in development for awhile, although they really got going post TS 7.5. He also seems to think that it will be available relatively soon, and may I say about time, 1.6 has been around for ages.

"Psst! Brian! There's a message in my alphabet soup. It says, 'oooooooooo!'"
"Peter, those are Cheerios."
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tyrano man
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Posted: 18th Apr 2007 20:00
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Quote: "Quite possibly... but then again, perhaps you should email either caligari or tgc (preferably caligari) and ask them."

I will do when Gamespace 2 comes out
Quote: "it will be available relatively soon"

Woot!
Tyrano


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zenassem
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Posted: 18th Apr 2007 21:46
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Thanks everyone for truly helping out. Your info is priceless, in helping me decide.

I think I'll take your suggestions, and start off using the light version. That'll get me by as I'm still working on other stuff. I signed up with Caligari, and hopefully I'll be able to snag up a "juicy" offer by the time I really need it.
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KeithC
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 01:53
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Quote: "Actually, the forum moderator at the gamespace website gives the impression that it has been in development for awhile, although they really got going post TS 7.5. He also seems to think that it will be available relatively soon, and may I say about time, 1.6 has been around for ages."

You must be talking about TomG (Thomas Grimes), and he's said multiple times that GameSpace 2 won't be started until TS 7.5 is hashed out, as GS2 will be based on TS 7.5. So it's still quite a ways off now.

Hopefully they'll follow through with a demo for TS 7.5 this time; which will give a good indication of what to expect for GS 2.

-Keith



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sadsack
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 02:46
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Game Space cost me many hours of work. I don't have it on my computer now. Lightwave 9 is the way to go
renny
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Chily Dog
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 04:17
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Just to put my thoughts in,

I own gameSpace and have been very happy with it so far. If you buy it from TGC it comes with a huge instructional pdf document and after reading the first ten pages I was already putting out some great models; don't let the price tell you it's just for experts.

I would agree the texturing system is a bit strange, but it still gets the job done. Just remember you don't HAVE to your texture work in gameSpace.

Anyway, if its in your budget range, I would go for it.
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tyrano man
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 09:28
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with these three things together you can do anything you'll ever need:
-Gamespace 1.6
-Milkshape
-Lithunwrap

Get all three of those and you can do anything with practise.


1 hour Kalspher Demo soon to be released for public BETA!
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Wizzkid
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 19:01
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In my opinion hash's animation master is better. It doesn't support as many file formats, but it is easier to use and I think it is a lot better, and it is only $300.

Keep-me-laughing.com Rocks!!! Lets all go to codeshare.co.nr!!
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tyrano man
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 19:28
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Quote: "hash's animation master"

But is that just an animator? He was asking for a modeller too


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 20:28
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It's not, it does modelling and rendering too, the adverts for "Tak: The power of Juju" were made in it.

Did The Buddha have a Zen micro?
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tyrano man
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 23:19
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Kwl I might look into it at a later; I'll stick with GS for now as $300 is alot of money for me to part with; and I might not even continue to work in 3d. Hence my lattest project (check my sig)
Tyrano


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 23:29
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Also, I'm not sure of Hash's game engine capabilities for export, I've never seen anyone use it for game purposes (then again I've never met anyone who uses it)

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tyrano man
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Posted: 20th Apr 2007 09:15
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Well then my advice is to use a software that alot of people use here, as you will be able to get help for it easier.


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