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FPSC Classic Product Chat / reversed normals, importing pre made rooms.

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fallen one
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 18:58
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I was experimenting with a different technique to build the levels with segment sections, one was reversed normals, instead of creating each wall I went with a full room sized box with the normals reversed, I tried it in the editor but it froze the editor and made the edit screen black, I even tried one with a whole cut in it, (an opening), did the same, now I could try using flat polys, ie 6 sheets, so that the same as the usual way only the walls don't have depth and so each side saves 5 faces for every wall or floor. I am not sure if entities support reversed normals, it looked fine in the segment editor creator program, but just wouldn't have it in the editor, showed in the selector but when I tried to place one, it frooze the screen and made the level viewer black, anyone else tried this, reversed normals?

What I am trying to do is import in my levels made in an outside 3d program rather than use individual wall segments, so I'm looking at cutting my levels up and importing them in, but it seems that the editor doesn't support normal data, the segment editor does though, whats the deal on this, does fps creator need a certain depth to calculated zones perhaps, that would be like the C4 engine, anyone have an information on this.
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wizard of id
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 21:18
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Search the forum there are a few tutorials here


Pointless Assault RC1 Demo
http://fileho.com/download/534fc0519603/pointless.rar.html
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fallen one
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 21:49
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I did do a search, nothing on reversed normals.
Its a good way to make structures fast, but it didnt like it, just wondered if anyone had some info on the engine and about working objects with reversed normals.
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rolfy
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 22:42
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If your using a box,then yeah,you reverse the normals in your modeler.This should work fine,dont know what program you use,but you may have to collapse any modifier stacks before exporting.

If you use flat planes,then of course you wouldn't reverse the normals,sounds like you did,so nothing will show.

FPSC handles planes no problem.
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fallen one
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Posted: 20th Apr 2007 02:46
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I didn't use max so I didn't have to collapse the modifier stack, I used Delgine, I recommend this program to people, they do a free version as well, it has almost the same features as the free version, it imports .x and exports it as well, so its very good, another tool that perhaps some fpsc don't know is wings3d, that's free as well, its very good, it even has UV wrapping, so between the two programs most fpsc users can have 3d models for no cost at all.

it could be just how I exported the thing, I'm still getting to grips with fpsc, same happened when I tried that terrain pack someone did recent, think it was butters, or it could of been your pack, that did the same error when I tried it in the editor, when I re tried installing the terrain it it worked, so perhaps its some error I did by not placing stuff correctly.
Ill try it again on my own model.
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fallen one
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Posted: 20th Apr 2007 05:14
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This is the error I got.

runtime Error 7001 - Mesh number illegal at line 9959
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rolfy
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Posted: 20th Apr 2007 16:35 Edited at: 20th Apr 2007 16:38
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Quote: "runtime Error 7001 - Mesh number illegal at line 9959"

This is a missing mesh,if you are creating segments check the fps for the segment,and the path to the mesh,make sure the mesh is where it should be,located in the meshbank.
You either have the fps pointing to the wrong location or the mesh is not in the meshbank.

If it's showing up in the segment creator,then I doubt it's a corrupt mesh.
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fallen one
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Posted: 20th Apr 2007 17:33
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thanks Rolfy, your right, I hadnt placed my meshes in the right place.

So for the record I can say that using a box with reversed normals absolutely does work, I'm very happy with that.
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fallen one
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Posted: 20th Apr 2007 19:46
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Just tried it out, you have a problem with boxes with reversed normals, looking out of the box, say a hole for a window or door, you dont see any entities or segments outside it while standing in that zone, ie that room, so its not practical to use, the other option would be to have it as two sided, ie as if it as a room made out of sheets, Ill try that next.

QUESTION,

Has anyone got a segment to have more than one texture on it, lets say it was a box, and we have one texture on the sides, and another texture on the top and bottom, is that possible. It would be nice to just do some simple face mapping with some textures, export it out as a .x, then load it in the segment editor and have the textures already on the box, I would like to get more than one texture on an object for sure.
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rolfy
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Posted: 20th Apr 2007 20:06
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1. Did you boolean your doors/windows,or did you csg them.Csg may not work with an imported plane.
Cut your windows and doors in your modeler and they will be part of the geometry.

2. If you make your room with 6 planes/boxes you can export them in place from the modeler and when imported in to segment creator they should appear correctly situated,this way you can have the individual parts mapped separately.

Default segments and rooms are already built up this way.
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fallen one
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Posted: 20th Apr 2007 20:25
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from 1.

what I did was make a box, insert it, then extruded, deleted the face of the extrude, then reversed normals, this makes a box with a doorway with an opening, but if one is inside the room and looks out, segments or entities will not be visible, they are if they are in the segment you are stood in and they are in the same object you are stood in, but if they are outside of the area you are in, they will not show the segment object or entity.

boy that sounds confusing,
say I make a segment, its a box with a whole in it for a window.
anything I place in here, segments or entities will show fine if I am stood in the room, but say I place a segment or entity outside the room, and I look outside the window at this object it will not be seen. only when I leave this box will it be seen, so boxes with normals reversed don't allow you to see objects outside of them.

Also one cannot use a door segment on them as the part that subtracts act as an add, so you cannot cut into them.
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fallen one
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Posted: 20th Apr 2007 21:10
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what Im looking for is a multi sub object, one object with more than one tex, if that's not possible i could make the object say a house, with all the walls and floor as separate objects, that way each object can have a tex file, but I don't want to import that object from like hundreds of separate files, Id have one .x file, in it is a model of say a house, all its walls ceiling floors are separate objects, therefore they can each have a separate tex, these have been textured in my 3d program. when i open this single .x file I want that object to open in my segment folder all textured, I don't want it blank and then to click on every single object and change the texture, otherwise Ive textured the thing twice, if i put the textures into the texture file it should recognise that here is an object, it has textures and ill put them on it, I don't want to open that .x file and have it all blank and by hand start clicking on hundreds of objects in the segment editor to change textures, that's OK for a single square room, but not OK for a great big map being imported into the segment editor.
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rolfy
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Posted: 20th Apr 2007 21:31 Edited at: 21st Apr 2007 14:15
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The only way to get a multi textured object is to make it dynamic,and you cant get inside dynamic objects,so your onto a loser there right away.
The only other way is to put your textures into one map and uv map your model with this,if you are using 512x512 maps put four of these into a 1024x1024 and texture from there.
I have never encountered your problem with not seeing objects out side of a cut box.Is your door there from inside the box but you cant see anything outside?I have seen folks have this kind of problem with transparency but never geometry.
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fallen one
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Posted: 21st Apr 2007 17:56
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I tried it again, this time i made the box bigger and put to holes in it, I didnt have the problem with not seeing objects outside of the box.

I did have a problem in that some parts of the box have me sticking, you try and walk and its like an obsticle in your path, so thats not good.

You say to UV map the object, by UV map I get you mean unwrap the objects mesh, not a multi sub object, thats OK for a single room, but what if the object is a big model made up of about 20 rooms, what can you do then?
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fallen one
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Posted: 21st Apr 2007 19:40
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I noticed that the segment editor doesn't recognise separate objects, so one cannot import one file that has lots of objects in it and have it recognise it as separate objects, in theory one could break a map down into every object and bring them all in separately to the segment editor and build up a map in that.

when I import objects into the SE, they are always plain, I have to change the texture, anyway to not have to do that, for it to have my texture on it already.

Im not sure what the technique is you have, Id like to know more on that, how you get the different textures on it, It sounds like you just UV map objects, though wouldn't this make for absolutely massive maps.
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