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Newcomers DBPro Corner / Massive Online Computer Role Playing Games Thread

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indi
20
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 20th Apr 2007 06:01
This is the definitive MMORPG / MMO / MORPG thread.

If your new to this language and forum and are interested in creating something like this, then please read this thread.

For anyone new or old that wants to add comments and information, please do so here.

Gil Galvanti
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Location: Texas, United States
Posted: 20th Apr 2007 06:49 Edited at: 20th Apr 2007 06:52
Alright, thanks for posting this. I'll post a quick FAQ:

[u]FAQ
[/u]
Is it possible to make an MMORPG/MMO in DarkBASIC Professional?
Yes, but it won't be easy. Almost everything is provided for you with DBP and the things that aren't are available through DLL's and add-on's. Many newcomers, however, don't realize how hard making an MMORPG actually is, so it is HIGHLY recommended not to start with one.

Why does everyone think an MMO is so hard to make?
Because it is. And here's why. An MMO(RPG) requires almost every aspect of programming, including linking and sharing information through multiplayer. Take a simple MMORPG, for example. You would need to learn how to do inventory, quests, a large world, collision, crafts, chatting, multiplayer, movement, saving/loading, AI, player models, handle a high number of poly's, combat, and more. So now let's see what you would need for a simple FPS: Shooting, moving, simple AI, a level, collision. See the difference? An MMORPG has many more aspects than other, simpler types of games, and it just isn't something easy for anyone to do, much less someone who's never touched a programming language in their life.

My life is ruined because I can't make an MMO.
For some reason, half the newcomers here think that they just have to create the next World of Warcraft as their first game, which I don't understand. MMO's may be fun to play, but they aren't easy to make, and there are much simpler games that are just as fun. There are many other genres besides MMO's, there are simpler RPG's (single player), FPS (First Person Shooter), Strategy (a bit complicated, wouldn't really suggest starting with it, but still easier than an MMO), board games, simple 2D games, adventure games, etc. Try something else first, but just DON'T start with an MMO.


indi
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 20th Apr 2007 19:06
Here is an article I found if your still keen,
but do keep in mind what it really requires.
http://www.devmaster.net/articles/building-mmorpg/
here is an excerpt
Quote: "
Step Seven: Dispelling some myths

You can't make an MMORPG, it takes a big company to build one.
I disagree with that. While producing a game such as World of Warcraft, Ever Quest 2, Asheron's Call 2, Lineage 2, and others is impossible for a small, independent development team, making a decent game is possible, provided that you have the experience, motivation and time. You will need at least 1000 hours of programming to have a simple tech demo going, and perhaps up to 10-15K hours of programming to have an almost complete client/server. But as the team leader you'll have to do much more than just programming. Keeping the team together, solving conflicts, doing public relations (PR), tech support, setting up servers, banning troublemakers, brainstorming, etc. will be your attributions. So you will be swamped with non-programming tasks as well. Then you will most likely need to go to work/school, which shortens the time you can dedicate to your project. We are very lucky that no team member left the team, but if this happens it can really be a problem. Just imagine your artist leaves halfway through the project. And even worse, s/he doesn't give you permission to use his/her art anymore. Of course, this can be solved by having them sign a contract, but it would still tiresome to have to get another artist. Having two different art styles in the same project can be a problem.
Large amounts of money (usually 4-6 digits) is required to maintain an MMORPG server.
Well, this is simply not true. I've seen dedicated servers, with 1000 GB/month for ~100 USD/month (and a 2-300 USD setup fee). Unless your data transfer protocol is very poorly designed, 1000 GB/month should be enough for a server with a 1000 players online (on average). Of course, you will need another server to keep your website and the client download (the client download can get a lot of traffic, once the game becomes popular). Our client is about 22MB, and sometimes we have a 400 GB/month transfer. And we are not even that popular (yet). Another thing is, you won't need a dedicated server to start this project. A DSL/cable server can do it's job pretty well, until you get 20-30 people online at the same time. Then either find a friendly hosting company to host it for free, in exchange for some advertising, or just pay from your own pocket.

Making an MMORPG is very fun.
This is not true. You might think that everyone will appreciate you, that the players will be supportive, that you can make very innovative quests, and, of course, have a lot of players playing your game. Players could be annoying. Even if it is a totally free game, they will find reasons to complain. What's worse is people will often complain about contradictory things. The fighters will not like the fact that it's too hard to gain levels, while the merchants will be very disappointed that the fighters make too much money from loots. If you decrease the monster drops, some people will threaten to quit the game. If you increase it, the same people will not like the fact that now even beginners can make money easily. Letting it as is, isn't good either. There has to be some innovation and improvements. If you decide to change something, for instance adding some new challenges to those who manufacture items, some will say it's too hard. If you don't, they will say it's too easy or plain boring. You might notice that the content players will usually not say anything and be satisfied, while the disrupting people will complain the most.

"


Gil Galvanti
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Joined: 22nd Dec 2004
Location: Texas, United States
Posted: 25th May 2007 22:32
Here's a post that zenassem made that I thought might help anyone venturing into the dangerous land of MMORPG making.

Quote: "I.Network Components
Like someone else said, the MM has a bad stigma, so just refer to it as an ORPG, for starters. Then look into extending DBpro's Online components.

eg. Tempest. or look at the work CattleRustler has done. I'll link you to them on edit.

CR's work is truly amazing. Server side, Client side. It's worth what he is selling it for.
Mod2Software

II.Tools & Scripting
The next thing I would look at is controlling your code. You aren't going to get far without some form of scripting. So look into DarkScript or the LUA plugin. You might want to code your own tool-chain to begin testing the Engine's modules. You need to see results fast, and real-time without continous compiling as the project takes shape. So a command line Scripting would be a must have option.


III.Work on The Important Stuff/Problem Areas First
Finally, I wouldn't worry about media rigth away. Just get the project to a point where a bunch of spheres or cubes represent the player. make the world simple. I think the main downfall of ORPG projects, is that everyone starts by creating tons of eye candy media. All that media is useless if you don't have the "real" components down. There is a project in the WIP boards where someone (I'll edit in later) actually took this approach. It was by Inverted - RPG.

The Open Source MMORPG looks like an interesting thread for Info as well, I believe Riidii is heading that up."



Zotoaster
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Location: Scotland
Posted: 25th May 2007 23:48
The longer/bigger the project, the more chance of you going on the wrong track and messing up

Xenocythe
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Posted: 26th May 2007 00:13 Edited at: 26th May 2007 00:18
Don't scare me Zoto


Well, I'm a one man team, and my mmo is going quite well. I know I'm gonna hit alot of big rocks and what seems like dead ends, but I'm not gonna give up.


But I have about 2 years of experience with programming, modelling, and all that stuff. Even with all this it is very difficult mostly all of the way.

MMO's are very demanding to make. You need knowledge in a lot of aspects. You also need to prioritize, and focus on it. It takes a lot of your time up.
If you do decide to make an MMO, make sure you can at least get a client-server or client-client network up. If this process takes more than a couple days, I think you need to step back and start smaller.
If all goes well, think of where you need to start. The chat system? Battle system? The world system? Sound system? Music? Quests? Controls? Camera? Shaders? Characters?

Theres a lot to think about, and a lot to do. Make sure your ready when you step into it.




EDIT: Right now I'm writing up some info on MMO's too.. you'll seee it once its done

RUCCUS
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Posted: 26th May 2007 00:29 Edited at: 26th May 2007 00:30
The Most Important Tip Of All:

If you can barely make an online game where a few users run around fighting each other, do not, yes, do NOT even attempt to write anything AT ALL similar to an RPG.

Really now, this isnt a joke, this is a serious matter. You'll waste your time and ours.

In fact just stop reading, and check back once you've done the above.

Go. Now.

sp3ng
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Posted: 5th Jul 2007 16:13
couldn't have put it better myself


Add Me
tha_rami
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Location: Netherlands
Posted: 7th Jul 2007 04:54
Quote: "
If you can barely make an online game where a few users run around fighting each other, do not, yes, do NOT even attempt to write anything AT ALL similar to an RPG."


I hope you mean (MM)ORPG. I can't write a single line of MP code.

If you did mean (MM)ORPG:
Quote: "couldn't have put it better myself"

I could've:
Quote: "
If you can barely make an online game where a few users run around fighting each other, do not, yes, do NOT even attempt to write anything AT ALL similar to an (MM)ORPG."

Else
I disagree, I wrote a functional RPG engine with all basic stuff (nothing fancy) and I never wrote a single line of MP code.
Endif

RUCCUS
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Posted: 7th Jul 2007 06:15
I meant an online RPG. Even if it only has 2 players, if you cant do what I said, dont bother.


Kaitia
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 12:36
I just want to make an rpg (not MMO) or a shooter what do you guys suggest? And can someone help me a bit with the basics like building a simple level just miles and miles grass is good for me ^^.
BTW i got no exp programming atall

''To program or not to program that is the question''
Eevil Weevil
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Location: Wherever you are, I wil follow
Posted: 11th Oct 2007 00:15 Edited at: 11th Oct 2007 00:16
A little equation

how_much_you're_screwed=15-abs((3-years_of_experience)*(10-project_size_in_ten_thousand_lines_of_code_or_20_Megabytes_of_media))

Excuse me. Yes you. Stop reading my siggy! It is private. Stoppit! Now! I'll kill you! Bleurgh! Go away or I'll format your C-drive! You are dead! I am dead! Yes! Ahem.
TechLord
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 19:41 Edited at: 11th Oct 2007 19:42
A MMO doesnt have to be graphical. I have played plenty of non-graphical MMOs. You can visit http://www.ironrealms.com/ to see what I mean. Whats interesting is that NON-Grahical can be more immersive at times.

So instead of telling you how difficult it is to make an MMO, I will start with how you can. For all intense purposes a Chat App is a MMO (minus graphics and sound). So developing a Chat Prog can be the launching pad for a Graphical MMO. You can find good startup Source Code --> http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=codebase_view&i=f3dac28b9773bd69fbd1f93f54048c0e.

If you can design and write your own Chat App, then your next step is to add simple 3D game world to the chat. The game world could consist of a simple Terrain. A sphere is used as an Avatar to represent each user in the chat. When a user joins the chat, you place an avatar on the Terrain. Users control their avatar by sending special movement commands via chat.

If you can achieve this basic chat/game you can continue to add more features until you shape this chat/game into the MMO of your dreams. The key point here is to start with the network without it, you dont have a MMO.

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