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3 Dimensional Chat / Still Progressing, need suggestions

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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 06:17 Edited at: 29th Apr 2007 06:18
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I decided to look for interesting looking guns to model, and came up with something called the Bizon 2

anyways, heres the model.



I still need A LOT of help with texturing. I can make uv maps for objects and stuff, but gun maps never come out right. and I have no idea how to make a realistic looking gun texture. any help is appreciated.

this model is just under 1000 polys

"I admire its purity, a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality"

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Shadow heart
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 06:38 Edited at: 29th Apr 2007 06:41
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looks good.textures would be a dark metallic black I don't know where to get one.

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 06:43
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i can't make metal textures...

wouldn't red plastic look just as good

"I admire its purity, a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality"

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AaronG
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 06:47
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I'll take a try at texturing it for you.
BTW-Nice model. The handle is a little thin, but besides that-its a beauty!

Teach me. Lol.

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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 07:03
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Quote: "Teach me. Lol.
"


I suppose i could write a tutorial on how i did it. It would have to wait until tomorrow though...

Quote: "I'll take a try at texturing it for you."


I can give you the model to preview it if you want.

"I admire its purity, a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality"

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Shadow heart
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 07:07
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tutorial that sounds great if you get enough time

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 07:17
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Quote: "tutorial that sounds great if you get enough time
"


I've got enough time. Its a question of patience. It would easily have to be about 100 screenshots to keep of the standard quality of my last tutorial, and thats not sounding nice and friendly to me. I would just have to have a guarantee that a decent amount of people want it, and would actually leave a comment, not just grab and run.

"I admire its purity, a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality"

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Shadow heart
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 08:43
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that's true, i hope you get it done.

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 16:27 Edited at: 29th Apr 2007 16:28
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Your're starting to get better Zaibatsu. You could still squeeze plenty more polygons into your weapons though. Here's one that I made, however, it may be a little too detailed for most DBP games, but is about equivalent to a modern game.



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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 17:09
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Agent Dink- I would have no idea how to attempt something like that. I have never had any training, formal or otherwise. Every tutorial I've ever seen has lost me. All I'm doing is what i can figure out for myself. If you have any good EASY tutorials for milkshape, please share.

"I admire its purity, a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality"

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Sureal Chris
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 20:59 Edited at: 29th Apr 2007 21:00
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Formal training? Pah! I've never had training and I seem to be doing well. Sure it me a year or so to get to this stage but...

Here's some shot of my work.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j53/Durgis-Flak/guit.jpg, some of my early stuff where I used only one block for the entire model.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j53/Durgis-Flak/glocktex.jpg, a recent model, texture still needs work though.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j53/Durgis-Flak/M4.jpg, and my greatest achievement in 3d (I think anyway).

I must admit I've had no training and read no real tutorial. and this post is badly structured and not very well thought out..
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 22:12
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Indeed you don't need training, its quicker, but you don't need it, most of us have got along fine without it, there's plenty of tutorials on the internet, learning how to use your 3D app and almost any tutorial for any program will be of use to you.

Did The Buddha have a Zen micro?
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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 22:34 Edited at: 29th Apr 2007 22:35
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Quote: "texture still needs work though"


hell, I wish i could texture like that.


Quote: "there's plenty of tutorials on the internet,"


how many times do i need to make it clear that every tutorial i have ever seen has lost me?

"I admire its purity, a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality"

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Sureal Chris
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 22:52
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could you give an example of what exactly loses you. The part that makes you think 'What the hell just happened?' as I'm just about to start on another gun and I could tut it for you, although it will be for wings 3d.
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Opposing force
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 23:29 Edited at: 29th Apr 2007 23:30
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Now that's muh better than your AK-47 Zaibatsu Well done! I love that weapon from Battlefield 2

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http://teammegabasic.proboards59.com
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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 00:06 Edited at: 30th Apr 2007 00:08
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Quote: "he part that makes you think 'What the hell just happened?"


when they assume i know where every button is, they assume i know what a certain phrase means, that something is common knowledge. I don't know much about modeling

anyways, i just made a knew model. a glock 17. I'm happy with my modeling skills for now, I'll progress as I work, but I need help with texturing, becuase without a good texture, a gun is useless. Surreal man, how did you make your glock texture?



"I admire its purity, a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality"

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Sureal Chris
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 00:20
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That is much better than your AK, it has the basic glock shape but I'm not keen on the cut-out look of it. Thats just me though, I try to model as much detail as I can into my models.

Firstly I spent a couple of hours messing with the UV (that was a lot of fun), then I copied sections from my reference image onto my map and adjusted them and andded noise if it seemed too stretched. I believe this isn't the best way to do it but I have no artistic talent when it comes to flat stuff. Can't even draw a straight line with a ruler.

I'll probably still tut this gun anyway cos it'll be interestin to explain how I work.
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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 00:29
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Quote: "I'm not keen on the cut-out look of it."


unfortunately neither am i. I also do not know how to fix it

Quote: "I try to model as much detail as I can into my models.
"


I don't know how, every time I try, it sucks

"I admire its purity, a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality"

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hessiess
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 00:39
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Quote: "i can't make metal textures...

wouldn't red plastic look just as good"


no, it wouldent
if you are using milcshape then i would hily recomend you try blender, milcshape is counter productive. i gurantee you will be able to modal better in blender.

i have absolutly no intrest in guns, but your modals dont look to bad. just ceep practising
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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 00:42
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Quote: "i gurantee you will be able to modal better in blender.
"


your wrong. I've tried it before. I choose milkshape becuase it could use it easier. I wasn't able to do ANYTHING is blender.

"I admire its purity, a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality"

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Sureal Chris
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 00:51
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I used blender in my days of Oblivion modding. I may have been able to get .nifs into it, alter the meshes and export them back out again as well as some basic rigging, but I have no idea how to actually make something in it. Faces kept dissapearing from what I was making. So I mainly stick to Wings3D for my modelling.
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hessiess
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 01:02
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it takes time to lern, but any advanced program takes time to lern.

bender is basicly

space-add-mesh-plane

tab- switch to edit mode

use the RIGHT mouse button to salect 3 verts

press x to delete them

vert by dert is the only modaling tecnique witch dosant result in tuns of dead verts

e-extrude

g-grab/move

a-salect all or desalect all

r-rotate

s-scale

do not use any triangles wen modaling in blender.

the vidio tuts on blender.org are verry helpfol.

http://www.blender.org/tutorials-help/video-tutorials/getting-started/

compering milcshape to blender is like compering paint to photoshop.

lern it, you will never look back.
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 01:23
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I've never touched a tutorial other than for mesh reference pictures. I've never followed one anyhow. Everything I know is self taught or from looking at other people's wireframes. And Zaibatsu, I was once worse at it than you and I used MilkShape as well.

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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 01:33
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Quote: "I was once worse at it than you"


how long had you been doing it for? I've been serious about learning this for a week, but i messed (made boxes) around with it for a few months.

"I admire its purity, a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality"

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 02:16
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Well, let's see...

I started modeling about 4 years ago ( I was 14 or 15 at the time ). I think I have seriously started trying about 3 years ago. Before that it was alot of primitives and really basic stuff. I think I should be alot better than I am. Pretty much I think I can make any non - organic shape without much of a problem, but my organic modeling needs some work.

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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 02:19
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Quote: "organic modeling needs some work.
"


all my modelling needs some work...

"I admire its purity, a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality"

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 02:24
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Hehe, well, I won't lie to you, yes it does, however, for only a week's time, it's not too bad. Once you get acclimated to your program and learn how all the tools work, you'll do a lot better. Search around on TurboSquid for models that have wireframe preview pictures. You can learn a lot from looking at other people's models.

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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 06:37
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Quote: "Search around on TurboSquid for models that have wireframe preview pictures. You can learn a lot from looking at other people's models."


i did. I just got frustrated becuase i couldn't figure out how the hell they did it.

What would be a good gun for me to try, I finally found a site with lots of reference images.

"I admire its purity, a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality"

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 06:46 Edited at: 30th Apr 2007 06:47
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Hmmm... Well, I know you already did an AK-47, but it is probably amongst the easier guns to make. There's no really curvy stuff or anything, and the majority of the pieces can be made from boxes and cylinders. You could also try a Mac10, it's an uzi and isn't too complex.

Find some good reference pictures. A good straight on side view is great to have. Also, some different angled views are nice. If you can't find real pictures, I find it's very easy to find airsoft replicas. They are usually pretty accurate to the real thing, so I use them alot. I usually search around for alot of reference pictures from all different angles before I begin any replica type of a model.

Can MilkShape have a background texture in your editing windows? It's easier to keep things in proper scale when you build on your reference pictures.

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hessiess
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 08:54
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do some high poly subdivision service modaling, if the topology isn't correct the result looks rubbish.then use this knolage on lower poly modals.

main problam ive seen with people uset to lo poly modaling is that thay NEVER USE ENUGH POLYS ON CURVS, its inposable to do curves without using alot of polys. save them from other arias of modals and use on the curvs

learn blender, you will never regret it.
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dark coder
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 10:53
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It's a good start, I don't think Milkshape is the best tool to use though, with a few tweaks it could become a lot more user friendly but until then. I personally love figuring things out for myself and can't stand tutorials unless there's basically no other way. For modeling just get to know all the tools, for weapons it's best to use a box technique for the most part, I tend to use loads of extrusions to get the basic profile from the side, however I don't just aim to get it looking from the side, you need to make sure you've added edges for things like rails or other contours where the gun isn't totally flat, and don't worry about extruding too many times at first because polycounts can always be reduced. Also try and keep your model looking like it's made from quads / plains i.e. not having any really big triangles because these can cause lots of problems if you ever seen to add more detail and may cause smoothing error later on.

If you've done that right then find a lot more reference pics of the weapon from various angles then try and shape the gun to it, shaping it should now be easy because you extruded many times leaving lots of edges for these shapes, and once done weld any stray verts that are of no use, if if you have a flat surface it should only have verts on each side, having some in between are wasteful and should be removed/welded to the edges.

If you're making weapons for the First Person View then 5K polys should be your maximum as you will only see one of these weapons, and you should be able to fit it using a lot less polys but it depends on the weapon.

My main crits about your weapon is that the grip/magazine looks far too long compared to the real gun, you should use orthographic blueprints / pics and dump them in your viewport to work around. You have many smoothing errors, mainly around the bottom parts of the weapon, however as you're new to this I assume you haven't learned about smoothing groups. Also you have put all of your detail into the parts of the gun where you can barely see it or not at all in an FPS pose, this is a common issue, people usually create barrels with the insides which unless you're making a Russian roulette game should never be visible, from an FPS post you will likely see a box that is the top of the gun and some of the iron sight which is a solid cylinder.

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Sureal Chris
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 11:04
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I agree. From what I've seen of milkshape ( a slight mess around to get my models in .x format) it's, for me, a very unwieldy modeller that utilises vert by very modeling which I feel is uneficent. For a free, easy to use, low poly modeller, I suggest you use Wings3D. My offer still stands to make you a tut and to answer and questions you may have after or even during.
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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 1st May 2007 01:26
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Quote: "Can MilkShape have a background texture in your editing windows"


yes

Quote: "polycounts can always be reduced"


how?
Quote: "I don't just aim to get it looking from the side, you need to make sure you've added edges for things like rails or other contours where the gun isn't totally flat,"


i tried not making it flat once. it was a disaster.

Quote: "My main crits about your weapon is that the grip/magazine looks far too long compared to the real gun"


it was made ontop of a refernce image of the real gun.

Quote: "My offer still stands to make you a tut and to answer and questions you may have after or even during."


I suppose it couldn't do any harm, but it would have to not just be a modeling tutorial, it would have to be a tut on how to use the program. I downloaded wings 3d, and still haven't figured out how to move around in the 3d preview. would anything taught in the tutorial be able to transfer over to milkshape?

a few questions-

1. how do i tilt part of a model so its not all flat? every time i try, its terrible

2. how do I properly use layers in photoshop?

3.can anyone make a step by step tutorial on how to make a decent gun in milkshape? it would have to be very basic, like the one i made on uv mapping.

"I admire its purity, a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality"

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Sureal Chris
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Posted: 1st May 2007 01:34
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Cool, I already started just cos it might help someone else. I've got 30 images and all I've done is create a rectangle of 2 polies so I'm thinking this will be showing you how everything works. Oh, and press the middle mouse button to swivle around in the 3D view.
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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 1st May 2007 01:44
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Quote: "Oh, and press the middle mouse button to swivle around in the 3D view"



of course! the only button i didn't press

"I admire its purity, a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality"

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Sureal Chris
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Posted: 1st May 2007 02:02
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I'm tryin to take a pic of everything I'm doing which feels completely peculier as I'm having to make sure the pic is right, undo and the repeat again to make the action seem clearer. It's hard to suprese the urge to zoom along with this. Plus the fact this gun is quite complicated. But I will prevail for the good of the comunity! Spelt wrong as well by the looks of it.
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mastercheif 193
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Posted: 1st May 2007 05:59
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Wow! Zaibatsu this is very good. The glock is ok and the assault rifle is very good
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