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3 Dimensional Chat / Glock W.I.P. (no cuttout-the real deal-need crits) btw-see Desert Eagle W.I.P. also

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AaronG
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Location: Millstone, NJ
Posted: 10th May 2007 05:04
Hey guys.
As you know, I have been designing guns lately.
The desert eagle hasn't worked out so well, -it looks pretty good, IMHO, but it's like 2k polys, and appears all messed up as a mesh.

So...
This has led me to making the Glock W.I.P. 640 polys as of now.
Yes, it does look crappy (sorta) but as time changes so will my skills.

First Shot- The Glock in Sketchup

Second Shot-The Glock rendered in Milkshape.


Enjoy.
C&C is not only welcome, but needed.

-AaronG

aluseus GOD
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Location: I\'m here. Now I\'m there. I keep moving
Posted: 10th May 2007 05:11
What is the WIP board ofr?

I will Learn to rule 2d. Someday...
John H
Retired Moderator
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Location: Burlington, VT
Posted: 10th May 2007 13:40
Some of the edges look a bit funky, might just be how MS3D is rendering it. Dunno what those two little lumps are on the handle, are they necessary? Lookin rather good though, keep it up

@Alusesus: the WIP board is for Games


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tyrano man
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Location: Battle City - Kalspher :)
Posted: 10th May 2007 19:45
also there is no point in modelling the two dashes at the top of the gun, and the whole in the front. As they can both be done in the texture; and are you really ganna see the very small front bit of the gun.

Night Giant
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Posted: 10th May 2007 20:49 Edited at: 10th May 2007 20:51
It's a very nice model, but tyrano man is right, there are some things you modeled that would probably be better off done in texturing, such as the slide notches, the grip inlay and the hole (i want to call it the chamber but that doesn't seem quite right for some reason). you should also adjust your smoothing groups in milkshape. other than that, well done indeed.

eta: just a little niggly thing that bothers me, when you post screen grabs if there is a lot of whitespace around what you are showing us (like in the first picture) it would be better to crop the image to the object.

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zenassem
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Location: Long Island, NY
Posted: 10th May 2007 21:14 Edited at: 10th May 2007 21:15
Is there any way to stop MilkShape from rendering the seams between flat poly's?

I have the same thing happen, even with smooth shading on. It really makes you think that the poly's aren't flat which makes it hard to know what your model will truly look like.

Sureal Chris
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Posted: 10th May 2007 21:28 Edited at: 10th May 2007 21:29
You saya lot of detail is better done in texturing, but some of us are not blessed with the required artistic talent for texturing so feel modellin the detail will look/be better than a terrible texture job.

Plus it helps with keepin the animation realistic when certain parts look correct then just a texture.
Night Giant
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Posted: 10th May 2007 21:30 Edited at: 10th May 2007 21:38
haven't used milkshape for a while, but i believe select the faces making up the surface and set them all to the same smoothing group. it's either faces or vertices, not sure. if you can't figure it out i can break out ms3d and refresh myself real quick.

(if you don't know what smoothing groups are, play with selecting different faces and then clicking around in that row of numbered buttons under the materials tab, you should be able to figure it out)

eta:
ok, no one asked, but I did it anyways (opened ms3d). select all the faces making up the surface that you want rendered smoothly, go into groups, down to smoothing groups, click assign, and choose a number. what this does is assigns all those faces to the same smoothing group. let's say you wanted a group of faces next to the one you just selected to be shaded/smoothed separately (maybe you need a hard edge or something) you would select those faces, than assign them to a different number. hope that explains it. feel free to ask if you need clarification.

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Image All
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Posted: 10th May 2007 21:37
Groups tab

Just select some faces and click one of the smoothing group buttons on the groups tab -- be sure "assign" is depressed

Night Giant
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Posted: 10th May 2007 21:44
Quote: "Plus it helps with keepin the animation realistic when certain parts look correct then just a texture."


are you talking about lighting when the gun moves? like how the slide notches and grip inlay are shaded when the light source moves? because in strictly kinematic animation (by which I mean animation of form, not sure if it's the correct term) those parts don't move at all (well, the notches move with the slide, but if the slide is moving so too will the texture). If you don't have any artistic talent just find a profile picture of the gun and slap it on the side of the model.

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Sureal Chris
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Posted: 10th May 2007 22:08 Edited at: 10th May 2007 22:10
Quote: "are you talking about lighting when the gun moves? like how the slide notches and grip inlay are shaded when the light source moves? because in strictly kinematic animation (by which I mean animation of form, not sure if it's the correct term) those parts don't move at all (well, the notches move with the slide, but if the slide is moving so too will the texture). If you don't have any artistic talent just find a profile picture of the gun and slap it on the side of the model."


Not really. It'd probably work on the hole at the front but with something as sticky outy as the notches it'd look too obviously flat. I mean when a gun goes from this postion (http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j53/Durgis-Flak/g1.jpg) into this one (http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j53/Durgis-Flak/g2.jpg) it doesn't look like a texture job.
Night Giant
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Posted: 10th May 2007 22:21
good point. if they were sticking out that far i would agree it should be modeled. but on most guns i've seen and held the slide notches aren't that pronounced. they are only there so your hand doesn't slip off when you are racking the slide, and they are usually not much deeper than the checkering on the grip inlay. but ultimately, i see them only taking about ten poly's each, which if you have three on each side of the slide is only 60 extra poly's, so i would say it's a matter of preference (or how detailed you want your lighting).

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Sureal Chris
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Posted: 10th May 2007 22:33
They don't look that pronounced as I look at the model from various angles, but I don't have any actual experience with guns. I think the real problem is peoples fear of poly counts. More than 700 polies for a gun! It'll bring FPSC to it's knees!!
tyrano man
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Posted: 10th May 2007 22:36
Quote: "I think the real problem is peoples fear of poly counts. More than 700 polies for a gun! It'll bring FPSC to it's knees!!"


Alot of the guns I have and make are 2-3k polies and they all run fine...

zenassem
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Posted: 10th May 2007 22:58
Thanks Night Giant. That helps me. I didn't understand smoothing groups, except if my model didn't smooth correctly with the material I would reset them. Your post helps me understand them now.

@AaoronG,
I really like the gun and I too would model all the parts. It shows the quality of modeling skills. And when presenting just the model, people would be criticizing a lower-poly version wondering where the detail is. So if your trying to demonstrate your modeling skills it may not be the best idea to post a low-poly, especially if your intention is to possibly sell it later on, and it may not just be for a game.

You could always go back in afterward and make a lower poly version with textures to do the work, but I see nothing wrong with making it look good to begin with.

It's great to have a high-poly version and a low one, especially if your not sure of how well the texture will work (once it's applied, and whoever creates it if you don't plan to).

Most models I see for sale have a high-poly and low-poly version. The model creator can't always be sure how the model will be used by an end-user. It's sometimes easier to create the High-Poly version first, and then convert it to a lower poly. Then again I am new to modeling, so perhaps it's just easier for me to do it that way.

Night Giant
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Posted: 10th May 2007 23:56
glad i could help.

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 11th May 2007 03:08
Wait, since when can milkshape render?


If it actually can, please point out how to get to the render-er in milkshape.

BTW Nice model

zenassem
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Posted: 11th May 2007 03:16
I hope my statement was using the accurate term. But by render I mean

Right clicking a view and setting it the 3d view to smooth texture. Then you can maximize that window, and you basically get a render of your model, with materials/and or textures applied/

AaronG
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Posted: 11th May 2007 04:43
no.
File> Export> ViewPoint Experience technology.
Type in a random name to export it to, then it will open it up in a new viewport. Once you close the view port, the render is then deleted.

zenassem
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Posted: 11th May 2007 05:06
oops. Thanks AaronG. I learned something new. Does it look the same as the 3d smooth shaded view. Becuase I have either done that, or looked at in the DirectX view tool under tools!

Image All
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Posted: 11th May 2007 06:46
I just checked that DirectX tool out. MS3D HAS POLY REDUCTION?! WOOT

tyrano man
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Location: Battle City - Kalspher :)
Posted: 11th May 2007 09:07
Well some bit should be modeled, but those two lines at the op of the gun needn't be. As they are flat anyway and don't show up in the render, or ingame. If you extruded them a little I could see the point

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