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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / patch 4.1? more like downgrade 999.0

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Guruchild
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 02:47
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I paid 99 dollars for this software which I'll call BETA for good reason and so far I havent been able to do anything useful with it because of all the problems. First, I find out none of the 3ds models I've got will work for god knows how long. And now, patch 4.1 has made things worse. Simple image load commands now give Runtime error 7002- cannot load mesh at line xx. What the #@%@#% is this bull #%#$?
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Solidz Snake
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 04:31
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Well, instead of insulting, why not try to :

1. Tell us wat are "all the problems".

2. Tell us "wat are those 3D models that u've got", "how did u made it", and how did u "use them inside the codes".

I think it would better for us to help rite?

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

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Bulleyes
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 04:34
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I agreed with what Solidz Snake says. There is no point just shouting and yelling but doesn't provide any constructive way to improve DBpro, which in turn will help you.

Bad Nose Entertainment - Where games are forged from the flames of talent and passion.

http://www.badnose.com/
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OzBot
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 04:55
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I can't understand why so many people have problems, DB pro works fine for me, sure I have encountered problems now and again but I have always managed to sort it out or work around the problem.
If you can't load 3ds models try converting them to .x files.
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Rob K
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 05:08
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Convert all your 3DS models to .X format

The .X format is just as good and it takes about 20 seconds to convert each model.

As for the software being beta, try BEFORE you buy. There IS a demo version.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
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CloseToPerfect
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 05:13
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they will refund your money if your not satistfied
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Guruchild
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 09:50
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Well, lots of points to address here. I promise to do my best:

1) I tried DarkBasic Classic for the full trial period before I decided to purchase the pro version. Perhaps this was my mistake.

2) I've searched the web far and wide and haven't been able to find a suitable WINDOWS 3ds to x file converter that actually WORKED. The cloest thing I've found is a MS-DOS command line program that KINDA worked called 3dsconv.exe- IE it converted the meshes but not the textures. And yes, I tried all the flag options.

3) I'm not blatantly insulting for no reason. $99 USD is no small sum for me. I would expect to get a fairly decent program for this sum of money. Anyone could determine the current state of darkbasic pro from merely reading the forums and realize it is clearly in a beta state. When I purchased the program I was led to believe it was as good as gold. This was before patch 4 which disabled 3ds model formats and patch 4.1 which rendered my current project, a RPG game, useless by way of said problems in my first post on this topic. The demo version was decidedly more effective than the current patched version of darkbasic pro that I'm using now.

I realize the developers wish to profit from their work, however right now I am thinking they are attempting to do so on an imcomplete product. Maybe I jumped the gun in purchasing, but again there are plenty of claims on the web site that contradict this theory.

4) Before you defend the developers, consider those who are not so lucky as you. Again, I emphasize I PAID 99 bucks for this program. That alone entitles me to be overly, if not justifiably, critical in my opinion. If you are here to argue on principle, save your time and do so elsewhere. I'm not some kid who gets his kicks wasting time arguing over meaningless issues on the Internet. If you have something relevant to contribute to this post then by all means... otherwise please refrain from dismissing my post as shouting. Trust me, If I was shouting, you'd know it.

5) I described my peoblem in detain first hand. It is an easy cop-out to see my post as an attack on the developers and reply with the typical "well what are you using??? what are you doing?" crap. That stuff is irrelevant. I said what my problem was. Unless you have some useful information that pertains to my problem, save yout time.

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 10:26
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2. There is a .3ds to .x converter that comes with DarkBASIC classic which may prove more sucessful. Failing that I recommend all serious programmers get hold of Deep Exploration http://www.righthemisphere.com anyway.

3. I believe you are correct in saying DBPro was released before it was really ready. Patch 4.0 and the fixed editor finaly made the system stable enough for me to start completing projects but up until that time it was dire. There are still some issues with the software granted, but on the whole the package is more or less there now and has been for a few months.

I still feel that the lack of a stable and bug-free terrain / bsp / matrix system is a serious short-coming that forces us to write our own world geometry, we should have at least one of them and this should be addressed sooner than fancy new pipelines and such.

5. I'm not sure about the image loading problem, I recommend an email direct to Rich for a resolution. [email protected].

Pneumatic Dryll
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indi
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 11:19
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I heard a lot of negative comments regarding your current purchase, I fail to see how that will help you by the way.

Amongst your frustration I see some valid arguments with problems that have been discussed before and are fixed in later versions avialble to people on the DBDN subscription forums.

i would prefer you didnt swear or come across frustrated, I know everyone is passioante and it gets frustrating for sure but it doesnt help your plight to get agro and complain in this light.

You are always welcome to email [email protected] with your current problems if you think they are bugs but I wouldnt compose a letter like you did above if you want a valid reply.

Usually supplying a small snippet to identify the problems if they can recreated helps greatly.

good luck next time with help and support.
try to be a little more objective.

http://www.lunarpixel.com

http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
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The Wendigo
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 11:27
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Here's a thought. When I helped beta test Jamagic, they put all us who tried it on the credits. Maybe so we don't get so much negative crap coming our way, we say if you find some bugs that are for sure bugs, then you get to go on the credits under "Additional Testers" or something similar.

Current Projects: mini BSP maker 50%, Height Mapper with many features 75%, FPS/RTT Nameless at the moment 15%
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 12:47
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"Simple image load commands now give Runtime error 7002- cannot load mesh at line xx"

"I described my peoblem in detain first hand."

Give us the full code and media you are using, then we can try and fix it for you. As Pneu said it quite unlikely to be the image loading alone thats causing a problem. For starters, the load image command has absolutely diddly-squat to do with any "mesh", so post your whole code and we'll try and analyse whats going wrong for you.

As for your complaint about DBPro being BETA software, well I'd have probably agreed with you before patch 3 to be honest. But now most problems are insignificant and Pro is more than up to the job of quickly and efficiently producing games.

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
[email protected] - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me
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Beta1
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 13:05
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Quote: "2) I've searched the web far and wide and haven't been able to find a suitable WINDOWS 3ds to x file converter that actually WORKED. The cloest thing I've found is a MS-DOS command line program that KINDA worked called 3dsconv.exe- IE it converted the meshes but not the textures. And yes, I tried all the flag options."


Not very far and wide I suspect.

Deep Exploration,
Lithunwrap can load 3ds and export x
Milkshape and laod 3ds and export x

All available either free or for very little cash.
Milkshape is a bargain.

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Soyuz
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 15:30
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and Panda DE Exorter if you wish to go direct to .x from Max.

GuruChild, I have felt frustrated with DB Pro sometimes but to date I have always found a solution to any short comings. I have also found that many problems I initially thought were due to DB Pro were actually due to my code or my models. Since everyone else here is generally able to load images and models without problems I suspect this will be the case with you.

Let us help you - maybe do some simple load model(.x)/image code that doesn't work for you and post it here along with the models if you can. I'd wager we can find a solution.
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 15:51
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I've had no problems compiling & running DBPro stuff. I do have problems with the editor (not being able to load files etc), but its pretty stable now.

I would like to see better syntax checking pretty soon though.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 15:54
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I must agree, DBP was in no way ready for release when the did put it out, but only because we pressured them into an early release. True, you have the right to be critical but there is a fine line between criticism and slander. Anyway, if you want help, let us try to help. If you're just posting to bitch about your problems, no offense, but we don't want to hear it!

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 16:17
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gotta say that i agree DBpro does feel like a Beta (its still using the Debug DLLs FGS) but the 3DS support isn't what it used to be in earlier patchs though.

and before people start telling him what exporters and crap to get - perhaps you might want to ask him what software he is actually using to create his models.

honestly now if i come across a problem it seems to always be moaned about in the forums, so i don't bother - just find anotherway to do whatever i want. If you have a problem loading a particular format 4.1 has added several formats MDL/MD2/MD3/3DS so try all of them, if none work then use DirectX which is pretty stable.

alot of the libraries have got alot of bug fixes that arn't even labeled within the patch41.txt alot of core commands are now far more stable ... just saying a single format not loading is like some major problem i'd disagree, at the end of the day you have the core commands there and working as stable as ever which you can use to create your own format loader for the format you want. If you don't want to create your own, then don't bitch that the current one doesn't work just let the team know the details and they'll put it on the todo list.

we've all spent a few odd bucks on this program, only reason you feel ripped off is because you don't want to figure anything out yourself you just want it to work 100% - probably not completely uncalled for considering, but we're all in the same boat and you don't see us bitchin off about it.

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 19:43
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Raven - "its still using the Debug DLLs FGS"

Actually, no it's not. It's a (common?) misconception. The DLLs are standard VS Release builds. Lee just hasn't renamed them yet basically.

As for the original problem that started this thread - email me and we'll take it from there.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
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Rob K
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 20:16
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@Rich

But the DLLs are still unacceptably HUGE and VERY bloated. A standard exe with 2D + Basic3D libs should not be 4.07MB, the fact that they compress to 1.67MB shows how much empty space there is in them.

"but the 3DS support isn't what it used to be in earlier patchs though."

By that I presume you meant absolute rubbish?

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 20:18
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I didn't say they weren't big, I said they weren't compiled in debug mode - and they're not.

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
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Guruchild
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 21:11
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This is more than the kind of responses I could have hoped for. Thanks a lot guys, you've helped reassure me.

I managed to fix my problem but I had to start a new project and copy what I had into it before the image problem was solved.

I apoligize for appearing frustrated, while I was VERY frustrated, I don't remember using obscenities. Those little #$$%@ you saw were typed in myself- no censoring was done.

At any rate, thanks.

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mhack
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 21:18
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BTW are dll's and final exe's are going to be smaller in future? Maybe patch 5?

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Amadeus
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 21:27
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Dear Mr. Guru and Friends,

Just to point out, My family's been doing computer graphic design for almost ten years now, and trust me, DBPro is about the cheapest, easiest development software out there. For 3DS max and all the extras, you could end it paying over $6,000, and for some of the C++ plugins that do what DBPro does, you could actually pay for licenses anywhere from 10 to 30 grand. Seriously, it may be 99 bucks is alot to you, but compared to most professional programs used by the masters in gaming, like Blizzard and Sony, it is very comparable. Just as you wouldn't expect to buy a car for $3,000 that ran as good as a $200,000 Lamborghini, you shouldn't expect the same with game development. And really, all that difference is, is alittle more work on your part to make your applications look and shine as well as the professional's. And trust me, if you don't know something, especially a DBPro-only related question, these guys at this forum can really really help you out. They've done it with me more than once. We're all learning the software, even the developers, and because it's a "living" program, it constantly gets better and better, and you don't have to pay for upgrades! So think of the 99 bucks more as an capital investment than a direct quote price. Thank you!

Cheers,
Drew

Life is a tale told by an idoit, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. - MacBeth
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Attreid
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 21:33
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guru, if it worked better for your rpg before the patch 4.1, you should desinstall dbp, reinstall it, and launch the patch 4.0, or another one (the one which worked the best), then you'll be able to continue working

Bu$herie
How many civilians is he going to kill ? he's going to burn in hell, and I hope that his pain will make him inderstand !
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 21:38
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are you sure they're all compiled in Retail mode?
some i can believe are compiled as retail, because they're small and DBP starts instantly when you use the functions contained within them ... whereas others are huge for no good reason and hang DBP's initilisation.

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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Mike Johnson
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 21:52
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All of the DLLs are compiled in release mode. There are a few reasons why some of the DLLs are large and this can be sorted out for a later upgrade.

Mike
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Scorpyo
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 23:37
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In the era of cheap 120 GB hard drives, cheap 256 mb ram sticks, 128 mb video cards and beyond 2 g hertz processors..why the heck is everyone wanting small exes?
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Rob K
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 23:49
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Because some people only have 56K modems.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
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Scorpyo
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Posted: 23rd May 2003 23:54
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Well..i am one of those lol
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The admiral
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Posted: 24th May 2003 02:39
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Quote: "I can't understand why so many people have problems, DB pro works fine for me, sure I have encountered problems now and again but I have always managed to sort it out or work around the problem.
If you can't load 3ds models try converting them to .x files."


Idont have problems either and I think its becauses people have not patients and all they want to do is complain when the first try a patch and nothing SEEMS to work but really does if they tried a little harder and had a look to see whether their code or settings actually had something that needed slight modifying.

[href]www.vapournet.com/~flyer[/href]
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Maxx illian
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Posted: 24th May 2003 05:18
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DB Pro is working fine at this end. Im not worried about the exe's I know they'll be taken care of soon. Im just having fun

*** Maxillian Software ***
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TogaMario
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Posted: 24th May 2003 06:45
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And the lesson to this story is, you get what you pay for. Indeed, 99 dollars is REALLY cheap for such a thing, that should have as much power as advertised. BTW, he does have a reason to be mad, he's an unsatisfied customer, and we all know, the customer is always right. No matter how much of an @$$ people may seem, if they're paying your salary, damn it, you better listen. Also, btw, all my code crashes out and closes with no errors, don't even know where to begin with this one but to go back to Patch 4 ... but Patch 4.1 had other model formats I can't win.

P.S. This is what the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated.
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haggisman
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Posted: 24th May 2003 12:42
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But Rob, the fact that the exe's will compress to a small size like 1.67mb, I don't see how anything would change for 56k'ers if DBS removed the empty space and it still took up 1.67mb.

project: light/obscurance mapper (80% done)
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th May 2003 15:48
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The compression is just as good on a small exe as it is on a large one...

you can make a simple Direct3D exe in VC++ which has a windows and a single polygon, Debug will compile to around 300kb and Retail to 120kb you then compress them - Debug will zip to 80-90kb and Retail will zip to 40-50kb

might not seem like a big difference, but when you're talking MB just add a 0 onto the end and you soon see how big the difference can be.

i'm still conserned that how come only the extremely large DLLs which don't actually have too many more commands then the smaller ones appear to add 2seconds per large DLL you use when you initiate DBpro... its the difference between an instant startup and a hang-startup. although the size is a worrying issue, whats more important is the bootup time of the exe's ... especially when you use say the World3D DLL and you're looking it DBP opening one window, waiting a few seconds then opening a second window and destorying the first.

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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Witch Bomber
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Posted: 24th May 2003 15:49 Edited at: 24th May 2003 15:54
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Exactly what I was thinking haggisman

Edit: BTW, Why do you call yourself "haggisman"?

Don't visit the Mad Matt Games Website
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haggisman
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Posted: 24th May 2003 16:03
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Im scottish, and everyone i know thinks that i must love haggis, so it just seemed natural. Though i really hate Haggis in reality

project: light/obscurance mapper (80% done)
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Witch Bomber
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Posted: 24th May 2003 16:14 Edited at: 24th May 2003 16:14
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So where are you from in Scotland? It says your location is Wigan.

Edit: BTW, I'm Scottish too, and I love haggis.

Don't visit the Mad Matt Games Website
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AtomR
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Posted: 24th May 2003 17:06
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Quote: "Posted by guruchild
This is more than the kind of responses I could have hoped for. Thanks a lot guys, you've helped reassure me.

I managed to fix my problem but I had to start a new project and copy what I had into it before the image problem was solved."


That happens to me all the time. Whenever I get errors like object doesn't exist or bitmap doesn't exist when they did one compile earlier then what I do is delete the .dbpro file and create a new one.

Quote: "I apoligize for appearing frustrated, while I was VERY frustrated, I don't remember using obscenities. Those little #$$%@ you saw were typed in myself- no censoring was done.
At any rate, thanks."


They still represent cursing

Take care
AtomR
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haggisman
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Posted: 24th May 2003 17:19
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Origionally i was from Ardrossan in Ayrshire, but i then moved down to England when i was 11. I still have a scottish accent though.

project: light/obscurance mapper (80% done)
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Happy Mongoose
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Posted: 24th May 2003 19:15 Edited at: 24th May 2003 19:16
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Ever since patch 4, I've had a fundamental problem with DBPro. A command as simple as:

make object plain 1, 1, 1

causes the system to crash when I try to run - in both retail and debug mode. Even the demos supplied with the latest patch fail to run.

All the 2D stuff still seems to work fine. Anyone got any ideas?
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Witch Bomber
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Posted: 24th May 2003 19:28
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I'm from Ayrshire too! I'm from Girvan, just 20 miles South of Ayr. I've only really ever passed through Ardrossan, going on to the Arran ferry, but my Aunt lives in Seamill.

Don't visit the Mad Matt Games Website
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Rob K
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Posted: 24th May 2003 19:38
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"Though i really hate Haggis in reality"

That's weird - I'm English and I like Haggis - Like a cornish pasty but with lots of sheep goodness

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
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Witch Bomber
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Posted: 24th May 2003 23:16
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It doesn't matter what your nationality is whether you'll like haggis or not. The most patriotic person I know, he would die for Scotland, he goes around saying "Burn the English", but he can't eat haggis, he hates it.

Don't visit the Mad Matt Games Website
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Evil Noodle
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Posted: 24th May 2003 23:31
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Im Scottish to and i absolutley hate haggis , although believe it or not theres a veggie one out thats actually not to bad , kinda takes away the phsycological problems when faced with eating sheep guts. Anyone for some black pudding?

T.A.F.K.A.C.M.O.T.D
The Artist Formally Known As Cut_Me_Own_Throat_Dibbler
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 25th May 2003 00:13 Edited at: 25th May 2003 00:15
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Hippy Mongoose - do you get a Windows error message when it crashes ? If so, you've probably got a DirectX problem - try reinstalling (or upgrading).

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 25th May 2003 00:51
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i hate black pudding ... but haggis is alright, still has nothing over a big jucie steak with clotted creme sweed though

(^_^) nothing beats that, well maybe if you added some apple sauce, some roasted spuds, bit of rosemary gravy, odd of carrots ... maybe a crispy yorkshire or two ... but after than nothing beats it hehee

tell ya what, went to a friends farm over on the boarder of washington can't remember what the town was called - but she has a farm ... make the best god damnd beef steaks you'll ever taste
though for those a lil squeemish probably wouldn't be good to note that it tastes best when the cows only been dead a matter of an hour or two.
this is probably where i get semi-flamed, well warmed a lil but all the veggitarians out there.

hey you ever notice that you ever meet a veggie and they hardly eat bugger all? its like you'll get them some fullass meal they nibble at a carrot and say thier full. Although i have a friend who only eats tofu and a good amount of it - but you have to wonder, is that really good for someone? or ya know actually tasty for them in any way?
once got tricked into eating a tofu hotdog, tasted like day old bread ... can't taste the difference my ass, funny how its always the people who don't eat the real thing that say it lol

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Evil Noodle
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Posted: 25th May 2003 01:07
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Lol im a vegetarian Raven .Im not gonna flame you because you like eating meat I dont simple as that . Ive not eaten meat (knowingly) for 11 years now, not from an ethical standpoint ,just because I didnt want to. Tofu aint very nice at all. Dunno about the not eating much thing , I can certainly empty a plate and Ive generally no complaints over variety and taste, there is plenty of flavour in food other than meat ,although some restaurants are still lacking in choice. As for the correct balance of Vitamins etc , I have been assured by my quack that it is a perfectly acceptable diet and sure beats steak rotting in my gut till the day i die

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The Artist Formally Known As Cut_Me_Own_Throat_Dibbler
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Witch Bomber
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Posted: 25th May 2003 01:11 Edited at: 25th May 2003 01:11
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To keep up with squeemish I'll tell you a bit about the history of haggis.
The farmer's wife would take everything from inside the sheep's stomach and bake it all inside the stomach as if it was a bag. Then she would give it to the farmer who would eat the contents of the stomach while he worked. Actually, I'm not sure exactly how it goes but it's something like that.
As for the subject of hot dogs, apparently the US government considers hygeinic the following hot dog: One with two rat droppings, something like 10 hairs, and a million parasitic insects, in each square inch.
Makes sheep's stomach seem not so bad.

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Solidz Snake
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Posted: 25th May 2003 04:51
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Quote: "As for the subject of hot dogs, apparently the US government considers hygeinic the following hot dog: One with two rat droppings, something like 10 hairs, and a million parasitic insects, in each square inch."


Now that explains my sudden healthy body, i've been eating hygeinic hot dogs! lol

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