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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Patch 4.1 killed my elephant!

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flibX0r
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Posted: 25th May 2003 11:01
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Waaaaaah! I was looking through the details on patch 4.1 and it looked great. but as soon as i installed it i went from 30 fps to 1 fps!

And its sure as hell not the comp. Look at me specs. Then ask yourself, how does someone with such a sweet ass comp lose his frame rate.

Please help. And don't tell me that it now works with gay radeons, and not with sweet ass Quadros.
"But we couldn't do that Mr Flibble," questioned Rimmer. "Who'd clean up the mess?"
--Twin P4 Xeon 2.0 Ghz, GeForce Quadro4 XGL 128MB, 1Gb DDR RAM, 19" Flat Screen--
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 25th May 2003 12:15
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sounds odd Flibble, though remember the Quadro series are setup specifically for OpenGL speed rather than DirectX speed - you'd probably get better results from a GeForce4/FX

that aside though your Quadro4 should be able to push almost double the data rate of a standard Radeon, so if they do perform better i'd be interested to know why.
How many polygons are you currently running onscreen, and what graphics are you using like Reflective Surfaces or Blended Textures etc... ?

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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David T
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Posted: 25th May 2003 15:09
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P4.1 killed more than an elephant here.... it gave me my FIRST blue screen while using XP!

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 25th May 2003 16:48
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And what did the BSOD say?

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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haggisman
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Posted: 25th May 2003 17:17
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XP has a blue screen?

project: light/obscurance mapper (80% done)
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David T
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Posted: 25th May 2003 17:18
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Wrote to read-only memory, I think. There seem to be a lot of memory problems - garbled images, wrong tetxures (bsp textures on guns, bsps covered with "PC noise").

I narrowed the problem command to "load bsp". So commented it out, it worked fine (apart from the textures screwing up).

On un-comminting the code, no blue screen this time, but anda object does not exist error, which was not there before. Help. I hate bsps!

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David T
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Posted: 25th May 2003 17:19
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Haggis: its a jolly nice one too. However, because it was in a dbp program it stared part way down the screen.

XP usually resets when it comes to a blue screen "for your safety". But it didn't this time!

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Rob K
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Posted: 25th May 2003 19:33
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"XP has a blue screen?"

What!? - You MUST have seen it before.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
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haggisman
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Posted: 25th May 2003 20:00
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Lol after the pain and agony of WinME, Winxp is bliss.

project: light/obscurance mapper (80% done)
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Firesea
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Posted: 25th May 2003 23:14
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The get image command with the texture flag also has problems. Have not had time to amke an example, but tried the memblocks example in help section except changed the make memblock from bitmap, to make memblock from image - when you make a new image from memblock, the image is the wrong size - scaled up .
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 26th May 2003 00:20
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XP Doesn't really have a blue screen as such... not the same way as Win95/NT4/Me's or 98's Redscreen

its more telling you that it has closed down the system for your computers safety, dumps the ram then reboots - recently i've been lucky if i even get that it'll just reboot at random, but my problem is caused by Seagate HDDs ... i'd get new ones but its not easy comming across large laptop HDDs.

if you download using Kazaa i'd recommend you stop downloading things too large with that possibility luming because it'll just wipe the download entirely, not like a last state and pickup where it left off, wipes it clean (including Table Trace) from the HDD.
same goes for anything else you have open at the time, i've lost a good few Softimage scenes recently too it.

i don't think that patch 4.1 is the cause though, David are you by anychance using DirectX 9.0 or 9.0a? or the now infamous SP1a?
i'm using both and before installing either i never had a single crash, now its like using 95b all over again

and Rob the Blue Screen in XP actually is a very uncommon problem for people who just use it normally, admitedly the only time prior to installing DirectX 9.0 i'd seen the blue screen was when i was causing it in Codewarrior, i have a habit of not clearing the memory right

before that the only crash that XP i'd experienced was one where XP would notify there was a problem with a popup and would give the options "Continue - Reboot - Cancel" with the recommendation being Reboot.

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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flibX0r
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Posted: 26th May 2003 16:05
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@Raven

We have about 100000 polys (as a minimum - i haven't actually checked). The only special shading effect we have is shadow shading, and even if i turn it off it still runs like crap.

What are you on about? Quadro4's whoop-ass in DirectX and OpenGL, although the new QuadroFX's look pretty sweet (And yes, they have to be quadros - these are 3d workstation comps)

"But we couldn't do that Mr Flibble," questioned Rimmer. "Who'd clean up the mess?"
--Twin P4 Xeon 2.0 Ghz, GeForce Quadro4 XGL 128MB, 1Gb DDR RAM, 19" Flat Screen--
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 26th May 2003 16:21 Edited at: 26th May 2003 16:22
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100,000 polygons - rather a lot!

Anyway, have you got multiple SYNC calls anywhere ? Has DX become corrupted/decided not to use hardware rendering ?

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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ozak
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Posted: 26th May 2003 16:52
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Quadros ARE optimized for speed in OpenGL, since it's a production card, and not a gamers card. That said, it's usually fine in DirectX.
NOTE : DirectX does not revert to software if something doesn't work. It just stops working. (On your app that is)

Now, I don't know what causes these framedrops in DBPro, but it could be caused by the new handling of objects, which might not fare well on some cards.

Just my 2 cents

Ozak

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 26th May 2003 17:02
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depends if reverting to reference mode is builtin Ozak... i usually put in a reference and basic software drivers for DirectX.

Quadro4 really wasn't designed for Dx work though, there are alot of driver loops because it was intended only as a workstation card - was just an nVidia mistake thankfully they didn't make with the QuadroFX.

that said you should be handling 100,000 polygons pretty well i mean even my GeForce2 handles 300,000 quite happily. That said is that with many objects or just a handful?

i mean a single elephant with 100,000 polys is simple enough, but the pipeline even enhanced would choke at 10,000 x 1,000 polygon objects

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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David T
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Posted: 26th May 2003 18:23
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Quote: "i don't think that patch 4.1 is the cause though, David are you by anychance using DirectX 9.0 or 9.0a? or the now infamous SP1a?
i'm using both and before installing either i never had a single crash, now its like using 95b all over again "


I've got DX9.0a, The resapon I thiought it was 4.1 was because I never had any of these errors before 4.1

If there's a new DX that will help, I'll be sure to download it.

PS - Thge blue screen I encountered was a blank, blue screen saying all the usual stuff you get with any other OS. It seemed a blue-screeny to me as any other!

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 26th May 2003 20:14
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Normally blue screen show the file that it thinks caused the problem - if it begins with dx, then you've probably got a DirectX error.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 26th May 2003 21:40
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i've never had the standard Blue Screen in XP, could it be a difference between the Home & Pro versions?
or maybe its cause i'm on NTFS rather than FAT32 (fat is just to bloody slow lol)

but as i said i've had major problems with Dx9 ... inparticular trouble comes when you run 3DSMax 5.1 with or without sp1 in Dx mode - unfortunately i have to because thats the only version with Shader Support so i've just kinda gotta pray i don't hit a problem, especially when rendering complex scenes just dies on me entirely.

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 26th May 2003 23:09
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I've had it once with XP Home - some stupid program did something nasty to the graphics driver...

Cant say I've had problems with DX9.0a (apart from graphic errors with old games), but then I use Cinema4D XL7.

I dont really trust XP's NTFS filing system (I dont think its as stable as Windows 2000 version, or even NT4) - as I've said before, which of the three versions of chkdsk do you trust as they can all give different results...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 26th May 2003 23:33
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i dunno... NTFS for XP tends to run alot quicker through the scandisk and oftenly picks up the most erros, and its better for virus's because they're expecting FAT16/32 so i can oftenly correct them too. guess really when it comes down to it the only reason i use NTFS over FAT32 is speed, as in NTFS when you open a directory its as instant as i remember from WinMe - do that in FAT and it'll faff around for like 3-4seconds trying to know if the drive is even there.
probably why i prefer it also seems more stable than FAT... if i had a choice i'd probably go back to Win2000 - but really the features that XP offers are better than 2k's with better support, i post a bug for XP and it'll automatically email it onto MSDebug for them to fixx the problem, with 2k there was that annoying form and was actually more worth just leaving it be.
atleast with XP i know if enough people have these problems too it'll definately have a hotfix

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 27th May 2003 01:40
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Thats the problem - are people having the same problem as you!?

I finally got around to removing my Windows 98 partition (mainly because 98 kept crashing on loading), so I've re-installed XP and everything. The only problem is that all the drive letters have changed, so I've got to update my web pages now...

It does seem to have fixed a problem I was getting with Explorer (where it said there was an error in 'unknown'), which is good.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 27th May 2003 01:59
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before XP i used to reinstall the whole system from a full format monthly so i found it a cool solution to alot of problems

best being that a fullscandisk takes around 5hrs, a full reformat and reinstall takes 2 hehee - plus it guarentees that all viruses you may have had are destoryed

hehee how about that for just pure laziness

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 27th May 2003 12:28
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Yes, thats quite lazy... You could be lazier by getting someone else to do everything...

But back to the original problem - I've got no idea, as I dont have twin CPU's - too expensive here.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 27th May 2003 15:37
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DirectX won't use both CPUs, not unless its told to - so i doubt it would make much of a difference (infact i know it doesn't)

but its not too expensive in the UK toady... you can get a Dual Gigabyte m/board for about £90-120, get 2x AlthonXP 2100+ for £60each then 512Mb Ram for £40
checkout [href]www.watford.co.uk[/href] they've always got some sweet deals.

and there you have a Dual Processor System
oki so its a little more expensive than a standard system, but not a standard P4 system

i think the problem stems from the Shadow Shader, Flibble can you run it without the shadow shader and tell me the speed difference - its just that if i remember right the Quadro4 XGL's shader sets arn't like GeForce4 Ti - as they're tied into the GL specifically for Renderman and MentalRay use, add that with it only uses 1.1 rather than 2.0 and the problem becomes apparent.

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flibX0r
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Posted: 27th May 2003 16:12
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lol, i have 2 cpus. Loads XP in about 10 seconds

@Raven

FYI: I have a GeForce Ti 4600 here, and the quadro's whoop its ass, and their pixel shader support kicks the Ti's ass. What quadro are you thinking of? We have nVidia Quadro4 XGL 850's (I think...)

Yeah, i can run it with out the shadow shading, and it still runs like shite. Doesn't matter anyway now. I've just re-installed patch 4 and it runs like new again.

FYI Again: DirectX WILL make full use of dual CPU's, but you have to tell it to in windows (Tell window to make use of both of 'em) and it makes a HELL of a difference!

"But we couldn't do that Mr Flibble," questioned Rimmer. "Who'd clean up the mess?"
--Twin P4 Xeon 2.0 Ghz, GeForce Quadro4 XGL 128MB, 1Gb DDR RAM, 19" Flat Screen--
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 27th May 2003 16:27
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well we're not talking about pixel shader support ... i'm talking about vertex shader support, i know the Quadro4 XGL is capable of PS3.0 but its still limited to VS1.1 ... i dunno why , oddly though it has Light Shader Support which is in VS3.0

but i don't think DBpro supports 3.0 so doesn't really matter
DirectX doesn't make full use of Dual CPUs even if windows is setup to use it (although Win2K and XP actually turn it on automatically) - you have to tell DirectX to use it.

ask one of the programmers in your studio i'm sure they'll tell you the same, a P4-Xeon is one HELL of alot more powerful than a standard Pentium4 you get almost 30% speed increase per CPU and are capable of having upto 4
So really you go from a standard system to a Xeon system and immediately you might thing that its just the Dx kicking in but it isn't.
Another thing to remember is that Xeon & Optiron come with drivers from Microsoft which allow you to extend the power of them under DirectX

i've been using Dual and Quad processor system for years, its always interested me why Microsoft only 100% support more than one processor with the Buiness application but home based systems they couldn't care less about.

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